City Council Pre Session – June 2023

Video Description:
City Council Pre Session – June 2023

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Speaker 1 0:00
Freeze. And let’s take a roll. I don’t know. Susie

Speaker 2 0:09
level faring. City council, Marcia Martin City Council

Unknown Speaker 0:16
canceled Two waters and kings

Unknown Speaker 0:18
are missing manager.

Unknown Speaker 0:21
He makes it a thrilling

Unknown Speaker 0:23
show requested to counsel.

Speaker 1 0:27
Me great. I want to apologize guys precession, I let the airport conversation go on way too long. So we didn’t have time for Aaron to talk about bullets. But before I turn it over to him, Carol would like to ask the question on us.

Speaker 3 0:45
Yeah. So as far as appearing for the meeting, and 27 When we talk to counsel, we thought we were going to be short workouts over. And now it looks like we’re gonna be short two council members on the 27th. And the two items that we had placed on that agenda were guns and housing report. One council member can deal with two, I think that’s going to be hard in terms of getting direction. And so under our rules, city manager can’t Kansas City session, and then we would just have to take those two items. One probably in the out, but we can work on that. But for those two items, I really believe six preference on that. So what are deceived? Thoughts?

Unknown Speaker 1:40
Are you suggesting that we have so let

Speaker 4 1:44
me see here? Yeah, I think wellness topics like that, I think it would be beneficial to also have had it is it is always best to have it in the very end of the summer, June going into July, when people start to see credit take somebody longer breaks set in associated with the fourth July baby family. So that’s not the worst case scenario,

Unknown Speaker 2:18
apart. We’re

Speaker 3 2:19
driving timing. So the guy that she was talking with the county said, so I was saying he’s working with Synack that we could potentially move now. It’s already moved to the client. So they were seeing if they can move that to the toilet, so I can go inside the gun discussion. And then the housing needs assessment out, which may help us a little bit. As we get into the LIG meeting, what you will see is we’ve now been privy to market assessments as part of the housing projects that we’re building. And we’re seeing a weird disconnect between the housing needs assessment and the market assessment that we’re getting to the lenders after us. So we’re kind of Graham’s, you know, driving hard to figure that out by the 27th. So if we saw that out there potentially help us. It’s hard for us to sign anything, and just because of everything else.

Unknown Speaker 3:23
So so we’re going to cancel the 27th. And I’m going to be gone on the 11th. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 3:33
so we’ve probably moved to housing to the 18th.

Unknown Speaker 3:37
You don’t schedule me just

Speaker 3 3:44
to because I’m having knee surgery scheduled I’m sorry. If we can talk again. That’s the legislated backup from Eugene, or no, that’s the legal backup from Eugene, the legislative background from Sandy and the police and marine issues and our guests. They I asked them last Thursday, when we saw the cert occurring. Can we move it to the client? I guess the answer is yes.

Unknown Speaker 4:12
So that’s 20th of June.

Speaker 3 4:16
Housing slide 18. Which shorter study session. Do some I don’t know. But I have a long standing gripe that we know recession. So on the 18th we have to do the study session followed by Ellijay meeting. Yeah, I think we’re kids you normally when we added the second public forum that killed that study Session and in June, it’s even more complicated. Yeah. Later. So that’s part of it.

Speaker 5 5:08
If we were to list the whiteboard on the big issues, we need to address between now and September 1. The ballot questions would be on that list. You have some sense, housing is probably come for me, these are these are pretty significant issues. Right? In we have got to get before September one. Whatever the ballot questions are gonna have to be one. So preferably by the end of July. But

Speaker 3 5:43
yeah, I was kind of looking at July 11, for the ballot questions. You and I talked and again, needing everyone for the dog questions. I started working on siding that today team, so I can make sure especially now with knee surgery. So, you know, I would look at valid questions on the 18th. Depending that agenda didn’t look too bad right now. So I would think valid questions and housing at General. If we needed to, we could look at doing a free session, on the housing before the meeting, and still accomplish the same thing. So we can work with schedules to do it’s just 27 just those two items are so significant that it would be best, least six, preferably seven counseling.

Speaker 2 6:36
Questions are, are pretty significant, too. We have seem to have created a situation where the arts and entertainment people have are gagged. But the librarians courts, people are going to town. And that should really

Unknown Speaker 7:00
be things, why don’t we do so?

Unknown Speaker 7:04
Well, that’s because they’re gay.

Speaker 3 7:07
So I mean, there were some different options that have shown up that we’re evaluating. And so we’re getting different numbers on some of the other options. And, and until we get some of the numbers, it’s kind of hard to talk through some of those things. So I’m hoping to a meeting this Friday, hopefully see where we are, and some of that in our in

Unknown Speaker 7:33
the border after that. So Fridays are the day for me to kind of underskirts.

Unknown Speaker 7:42
So we have a consensus here that we want to not have the need the other 27 that we cancelled that this was the short main

Unknown Speaker 7:57

Speaker 2 8:01
I do have a question about the gun safety. I know that we had asked for it to come back in June. But then when I think about our council priorities, where would this fall, you know, considering that we are having to cut meetings, because of you know, unforeseen Fourth of July just happened on the fourth Tuesday. So then that impacted. So, you know, is there a possibility that we could move that further down?

Speaker 4 8:33
I think the only thing was what Marsha said kind of a lawn here was about trying to get something on the legend associated with the legislative agenda and stuff like that. So where we stood on some of these things, whether it be the gun issue or that. And so you know, of course, we want to respect that in the sense of, to your point, that’s a very important part of of, of where we are as a community, we’re kind of tired of the guns and everything.

Unknown Speaker 9:05
Well, that’s not what all of us

Speaker 1 9:09
it was a motion and a direction that we would look at it in June. So

Unknown Speaker 9:14
a bit more. We have. Yeah,

Speaker 2 9:20
it’s pulling get that motion was just was to see what the how much light there was between what happened on the agenda and legislature. I think that the legislature did everything that Eugene advised us dared to do. So it doesn’t need to be very long established.

Speaker 3 9:41
I think it’s more going to be based on what we think may come back. And it really is that public safety public safety connections. So just

Speaker 5 9:56
this is kind of tangential. But you mentioned the legislative agenda. At some point, I still think this group ought to have a conversation with legislators before they start drafting legislation to get signed on what our priorities are right? We are in the legislative session, and it’s too late. So if there is other legislation, or whatever we decide to do with firearms, in any part of it has a legislative implication, we have a chance to talk about that. But but there are other things that that we need, in my opinion, we need to be talking to the legislators.

Speaker 1 10:28
So to that point, I’m glad you brought it up. And I did talk to the anomaly. And after she was the senator, and asked her if she would be willing, and her and Karen McCormick will be willing to meet with us. And she said, Yes, anytime. So I’m going to talk to her about

Speaker 5 10:44
scheduling the calendar for me, which

Speaker 3 10:48
I think what we wanted to do is have this conversation there when you wanted to do a map and schedule something. Your direction was to schedule a meeting with the legislature legislate towards ahead of our normal schedule in January. Drafting. I think that was part of that conversation. So

Speaker 2 11:07
it’s just like us and budgeting pipeline for drafting legislation is now

Speaker 1 11:16
so I think, yeah, we can definitely get that budget set aside. But you know what, though? Let us know which which legislators you would like to be in not maybe not just the ones who are always talking to each other others

Unknown Speaker 11:32
prolongs the killing the assault weapons.

Unknown Speaker 11:37
So anyway, does that.

Unknown Speaker 11:40
Yes, that was a big thing for me.

Unknown Speaker 11:42
The very least, Jennifer Printy. Karen,

Unknown Speaker 11:44

Unknown Speaker 11:46
Sonia in gdb be willing to do that.

Speaker 1 11:52
She drafted some of these bills. But here’s why I asked her. So terrible to Erin. And FYI, Shakira is not here. She felt that she said part of all three motion was to say was that she’d found out that her aunt had become very ill and got into the hospital. So it was the generosity of counsel and emotional favor, and that she just broke down and then later in the week, passed away. So today is her funeral. So she called last night and said, I am leaving tonight from funeral today. We’ll be back Wednesday. So that’s why she’s

Speaker 6 12:30
I wouldn’t be surprised if her youngest daughter’s graduation.

Speaker 1 12:37
Oh, yes. She’s very taken aback. Yes. But it was great. Anyway, Aaron, what are you talking about? Homelessness ideas?

Speaker 6 12:53
Sure. I think there was a miscommunication that she created, I wanted to speak about, because this was a conversation that happened between she and I, while we were in DC for an LLC, it was not because of what we heard, was just conversation happened to me. So this has nothing to do with anything was presented to the LLC. It was the idea that the city council has generally built consensus either through retreat or to similar meetings like this, on issues such as housing in childhood education, transportation, is our roadmap, the house that we’re building our framework. But as I think we all know, one of the biggest issues that comes up for all of us is the analysis, the analysis and what we’re doing or not doing about it. And I don’t feel that necessarily all sat down with each other, and truly have the conversation outside of the confines of a real council meeting with the rules of procedure. And so that was the conversation, which is that we thought that it would be a great idea for us to sit down and, you know, because there’s some preparation we got, because last month, where Eleanor just sent us all the funding that we sent and all of the different outreach sources and things like that, that we are prepared to have conversation that says is that as a council are we happy with that this or is there something else? You know, I know launch has talked about kind of like Resource Center where there’s it’s not necessarily a shelter, but it’s a resource center. So

Speaker 2 14:48
Jennifer river This is New Zealand’s at the moment. We’re starting to work on the next one And she had some remarks about the recent presentation that was given to the faith leaders. With this, she’s got two big things. Money is temporary shelter, isolated temporary shelters, route shelter, increases the opportunity for addiction. And so she’s not sure that she likes that model. And the other one is, and people are chatting with Denver has been transitions. The Denver is a city and county. So they control all the different resources. And I think we need to talk about replicating the Denver model, her idea is never going to have, you’re going to miss all the epiphanies that made people turn the corner and decide to go into rehab or go into a public housing or housing first program or something, if you don’t have some face time. And so all of the service deniers are detaining that the only detention we have now isn’t working because it’s jail. Jail does two things. It turns people away right now. And if it doesn’t turn people away, they’re extremely institutions, churches the wrong thing.

Speaker 6 16:29
They’re not resource providers don’t necessarily, so that, you know, I know that you’ve had some ideas, we’ve talked about Jennifer’s ideas. I know the mayor has been added as a working group or as AdWords group. So that was really the impetus behind my asking for this is that if we can come to at least an answer that we can give people these are what we would like to see happen if we don’t already have the list of resources that we’re providing. And not having heard every voice on council, I can’t give any answer personally. So it’s like, what’s the council? There’s some different approaches. This is what the city is doing. Currently. I can’t do so. We’re happy with what we’re doing. And we’re

Speaker 1 17:24
always examining what we’re doing. And I have been working on this under the radar to be quite honest about the staff, and what you’re working with, because of the pushback that we’ve had since 2016. About if you mention anything, it’s it’s MBAs or paper was jokes. And I have shelters all over the city, you know, people still so we actually, cake you know, we examined the pellet structures and the, with the Roya. The Royal soya. Yeah, Dolores project, which we were all invited to tour, and just exploring ideas and with the church meeting, now we have churches that are coming out and saying, we’re interested in this and this and this and this. So I asked him what their job is. One of the things it’s a luxury to donate. So we’re trying to figure out where they should donate, and how and lbfo. And Harold had listed several options. So we’re gonna have a meeting this week or next years. They said, where’s that list of options on donors, and that would help people come out and talk to the the church’s faith communities that are interested in our structures. It’s education. And we’re asking for help, because we as a city cannot do this alone, as also addressing, but our Public Safety Department has said that, what they need to help them with the problem, but also help perhaps sometime on your scheduled, we need to talk about the arroyo village. And what is that because it encompasses some of what Marsha has been saying, I think Rob, kind of saying the same thing. But I think it’s time to Aaron’s point, that we have a big discussion about it. And but I personally want to put out I’m going to have another meeting of the same churches and say, Thank you for responding. Here’s what we have found that you’re interested in. So I’m going to bring up the pellet structure people are going to bring out what the operation is because it’s not easy. You have to be really committed, and where our resources are, how can we get all the resources in the same place? Who’s gonna operate it? It’s a huge undertaking, it isn’t easy. And to be honest, it’s something I’m very interested in it. But it’s something you just have to work really hard at, and come up with ideas, rather than put what you’re working on out there and the pushback coming in for you at the time to discuss

Speaker 2 20:32
it? Well, I think one of the things that needs to be discussed is whether it is in fact a solution to the problems that we have or not. And what is not happening is that some of the people who control the moving parts that are necessary to the solution aren’t in any of the conversations that you’ve described. So you’ve got to, you’ve got to look at things like the county courts, our municipal judge, because I frankly, don’t know exactly how the gears mesh to end up with all the people that get booked by our police force ended up back out on the street. But I think we need to look at that. And other places have have implemented drug courts and drug detention, that allow people a week or two of detention to be processed into rehab, or a housing first program, or something that uses the fact that they were apprehended in committing the crime, even if it is only see people you’re not allowed to sleep, to make an excuse for an engagement that cannot be refused. And I would not be comfortable going forward with anything until we have that conversation. Because it’s a piece of the solution that we can implement by ourselves. And we need to get the buy in of the county, and we need to understand how it works. Maybe everybody else understands how it works. But I

Speaker 1 22:16
will be honest, getting the buy in of the county, because then a two year project. And we’re closer than we ever have to be honest. And I agree with you. I heard an incredible speech from Curtis Johnson. County. Sheriff. Yeah. About what he said as a shy person diversification program, which is great. I think it’s amazing. The problem is you have to be arrested to be and because it’s, but it would be wonderful if we had that. If we had them come and speak to us is address. So I agree. And maybe we should schedule a meeting about homelessness only. Yes.

Speaker 5 23:11
As I was just thinking about a series of conversations that just think stuff, because I read a couple of meetings in the washing station, yes, we had providers with public safety. For me, the most of the where we were headed, what was most meaningful and productive for me, was the clarity we began to achieve on the segments of our population. So as I’m listening, you know, whether it’s abortion is talking about mass, and he’s got a substance abuse issue. Or, you know, a man or woman who’s looking for a safe house, or a family living in a car, or the value of that, for me, was a segment in a population, each segment needing something but needing something different. And then that segment of the population that simply refuses anything, and you know, and now you’re talking about those who refuse to go into a shelter or whatever. Our options were quite different, the resource commitment was going to be different implications. The strategy implication was different. So as I’m listening, if we’re going to do that, I’d rather I’d rather the Federal Reserve resurrect, right to read or reinvigorate that conversation and get us to a place where there was there is clarity about which segment we’re talking about, and what’s the strategy and how do you resource and are there policy implications for us for those segments for me otherwise, it’s like,

Speaker 2 24:45
and we’ll talk password. But honestly, I think if if we kept following through with a pandemic, well, we don’t have perfect solutions for every segment, but we have some solution for every segment. So, the bottom cheer, like, I guess I shouldn’t be judgmental of refusing to service resistant resistance. Tears will be another

Speaker 1 25:13
version you could you could be researching. I have been great, because that is a problem. I agree with you that there are there are different segments. And that is the challenge is a challenge for a local community or county to address all of those, and that some of those are what we put out to the faith community all different tiers of support, where can you help us in this? And are you interested in there is interest in and to be honest, where we butted heads with the county is that they are a housing first one. And when I talked to the and toured the boulder shelter, we have a different idea of warehousing versus they, they the Michael who runs that boulder shelter. His idea is that anybody that’s on the street regardless of what the problem is, you take him and convince him to be in a house. It doesn’t matter if they’re using meth, alcoholics, alcoholism, unemployed, etc. Put them in a house first. You know, a human. I have butted heads with him on that, mainly because of working with hope, working with the our center. Some people are so far gone that they cannot stand to be contained. And Ellis from hosts gave us a good example. They’ve been working for years with one, one person, this one man and he finally allowed to be put in an apartment and I think it was a three bedroom, one bathroom kitchen. When they went to visit me he had put a tent and the other part he could not take being confined. And and that’s where I butted heads with with Mike is that you’re creating a situation that we can always live up to. But they wouldn’t help us with funding or anything if it wasn’t Housing First. But there are no statistics. When we say when this test statistics come out. And they say we have so many people this year. My question is, how long did they stay in that unit? Are they still housed? Because those statistics don’t come out. And that bothers me. So my, my reasoning is like with the pellet structures, these are not overwhelming units that would overwhelm. Foods, a lot of operation, it’s an order.

Speaker 2 28:12
And I’ve been researching that, and I met with them. So I can’t send this chair this this was my own account. Yeah. So through them, but it has several data points, statistics, as well as background information on the ballot structures, and how different communities have tapped into various resources with their own police records and how they’ve brought it all together. As well as tapping into people who have recovered, moved on and then come back to support the project. So, you know, so that’s what I’ve been researching on this. And it sounds like there are some churches who are interested in knowing more. And I definitely agree that we should have Elizabeth come out and share you know, I’d be happy to to participate and share what I would I learned as well. And but you do we have to have different things to be different beings. You know, I have family who struggled with drug addiction, and it is impossible and it gets to the point I’ve talked to friends too. I’ve also had situations where they’re calling the police. I need them in jail, because I know that they’re not out there doing drugs, committing a crime, that they are confined. Right. And so, but they you know, Boulder jail, and along well the best bet is that they call well police and Boulder Valley. Yeah, they can’t It’s like they let them out on the Arvon and it’s an all it does is just cost already a traumatized family and individual even more money because of the court fees and going through the system. So there Isn’t there’s that component here.

Unknown Speaker 30:03
So just real quick, from what I’ve been hearing so far, just listening is that we are well resourced in a lot of ways. Yes. we’ve tightened up a lot of our

Speaker 6 30:17
ordinances from a public safety standpoint, to, I think, a high point before we start really getting into hostile litigation from ACLU against Boulder, as an example. So we’re riding that line pretty closely. So I think from those points of view, what I’ve been hearing is that the biggest hole is dealing with the service resistance of the unmasked population. That’s what I’m kind of hearing, you know, in different ways. Yeah. And that’s the most difficult obviously, to deal with, in a lot of ways. It seems like we have some different ideas about how to deal with them. As far as not going too far, as far as bending over backwards for services is that having those resources available, and then also dealing with some of the public safety issues that occurred? So that seems to me, as counsel to be where we need to focus is on that’s where we feel the whole density. And you know, when we can, because we have to take it from a resource availability constantly. Yeah, I’d love to have specifically, you know, making shelter for women that are going through domestic violence issues, and things like that. But that doesn’t seem to be the biggest hole that we’re seeing in our spectrum of resources as well as audiences is once a year. If that’s

Unknown Speaker 31:56
a question for you, gee, can I ask?

Unknown Speaker 32:03
Well, you know, it’s really stemmed interaction.

Speaker 2 32:06
Okay. Oh, it was just about the Boise case. So if we, if an individual according to that case, my understanding correct me if I’m wrong, is that if we have available shelter or available space, we can legally remove them from a park or a public space? Generally, yes. What was the as the ninth circuit under this capsule? Here, follow the guidelines. And that was one of the response to ACLU.

Speaker 1 32:46
Working on space, but for our sets time, I think that you’re all right. This would be a good discussion of all Council and to bring in as we did some of those community meetings. The resource people who had hope, tell us what they’re facing what they see every day. And hope. Wood house, people at the Lamplighter may say no more candlelight, which is having problems right now. So it isn’t easy to take a person and say Housing First. Yeah. Because the

Speaker 6 33:29
question is, I know the point of time. I would like that point, sometimes to be in the middle of something. And also, to kind of separate out if possible, how many could be classified as service resistance. So that would help, I think, figure out how much resources in time that we should allocate towards that specific subgroup? If you think that’d be very helpful,

Unknown Speaker 34:03
let’s think of a time where we can actually why don’t I? Usually,

Speaker 3 34:10
yeah, so we’re getting better data sets now. Because of L there and the work we’re doing. And then we recently had a conversation with the county about sharing datasets, because that was a big part of the problem is when we were participating, we didn’t have access. So we kind of overcame that comp about month and a half ago. So, the data is going to start becoming more clear to us. You know, we know we had 1900 interactions of which it was 348 unique individuals. average number of contacts per individual is five. You know, 85 are vital documents that we received 28 coordinated entry screens completely complete. 18 housing assessed Since 302, referrals, 14 benefit applications and 13 completed, referrals verified. So you’re starting to see how it’s moving through the the issue that we’re now starting to see with the service resistance is that actually, we talked about this in the housing. We talked about balancing the Advisory Board, this meeting is addiction to Vietnam. And then Sarah talked about that they’re now kind of fit model with another drug. So I was in, which is

Unknown Speaker 35:41
it’s Narcan issues.

Speaker 3 35:43
Well, it’s also xylazine, apparently called xylazine also causes major infections. And so what you’re finding is we’re dealing with people that won’t even go to the hospital, and that have massive infections or drones with, but it’s all because they don’t want to stop taking. And so you know, the challenges we’re moving through here, the thing I would say, if we’re having this conversation is resources are going to be an issue, financial resources. And there will be a decision making process, if we’re going to do this, and we’re going to have to stop this just because of the limitation on the funding.

Speaker 2 36:33
Reviews, service resistance service defiant, which is, like the guy with the abscesses are also like the guy that was pitching his tamped out there really doesn’t have any problems, except defenses, right to be out in the open, camped on public property. After those, those are service to find people, I think that what was presented to the faith community is maybe the upper half or a third of service resistant, because it’s people whose resistances based on a barrier, right, they either they have a rural phobia from being homeless for such a long time, or they have an attachment to a pet, or an attachment to a person because a couple can, regardless of the nature of the couple, they can’t sleep together at home. And, you know, so. So all of those lower those barriers,

Speaker 1 37:29
I agree with that completely. But if we can separate and offer to people who want to work and want help one that would limit the interaction of the severely funhouse to do not want to be in a house, interacting with people who really would like to be housed. And that would, that would help all of us. So I have two more things that we need to do. So can we think about if anybody wants to make a motion at some time, maybe I don’t know where the time would be. It would be up to staff to have this discussion and make it only this discussion. When the motion is in session. I’m talking about at some point,

Speaker 6 38:15
designating a study session specifically, I like to

Unknown Speaker 38:21
decide who we would like to.

Speaker 2 38:24
Yeah, that’s an important part of the discussion, because I think that the usual suspects are reaching out to

Speaker 6 38:31
Jennifer little bit, she’s a great resource, if she’s willing. works right for him. Because of his experience,

Speaker 2 38:41
because of justice reform, you know, he could speak and speak to the idea of drug, drug courts and from jails so far. Well, I agree that less like jail, and you have to be arrested. Why?

Unknown Speaker 38:56
diversification? Yes.

Speaker 6 39:00
The top third of the service business certified is kind of the low hanging fruit, obviously, that’s the first thing you start. Because

Speaker 2 39:10
they’re not the ones that get the residents of their

Unknown Speaker 39:14
arms. They could be still

Speaker 1 39:16
Yes. So let’s get the effort like you suggested. I think that’s a great idea. And whoever wants to make that motion, we’ll look at the calendar yourself to see what’s what’s going to decide what study session,

Speaker 6 39:29
well, this week, the motion to be made a actual secret. And then virtually at that time, we can maybe put it figured out amongst ourselves a list of speakers and speakers. And then when the motion is made, we can ask for, you know, to send that just two

Speaker 4 39:49
minutes. And I think we got to be very specific to the speakers that when I asked them to give an overview of what they’re doing, we’re asking them to give us their opinion

Speaker 2 39:57
with all this. You have to be behavioral issues that we’re talking about

Speaker 4 40:02
that want to know that what they’re seeing what their data is telling them, or as to what that we were referring to the whole, because I don’t think we’d have the time to, to have them come in and give a real overview of what they do. But more at assume that most people watching have a clue about what their goal is. They want to do a quick mission statement and then go into that. Short presentations,

Speaker 6 40:30
and then availability for back and forth and counseling.

Unknown Speaker 40:35
So I’m

Unknown Speaker 40:36
the sheriff in the county there. Yes, yeah. Or should

Unknown Speaker 40:42
somebody else share smart,

Speaker 2 40:43
not just water shelter? Because Jones, right, they have wonders on their mission,

Speaker 1 40:50
and how we’re breaking that barrier. And to the point about bringing the churches back in to Carol’s point, they want to donate. So we’re trying to figure out where we’re going. What kind of a process or mechanism do we need to let them do that? So that it’s not specific for one specific detail analysis, but for whatever we will need to be drawing on those things. So it’s a lot of examination, I’m going to move on because they do have two things here that I need to bring up. The first one thing is

Unknown Speaker 41:34
no, okay.

Speaker 1 41:37
So um, I have personal email from a resident about a post on social media by a council person that they were very, very unhappy about. I sent it to Eugene and Harold for consultation. And so I have to address but we are self policing body, it is not up to me to address this so I’m bringing it to you. I’m going to hand you the I made a copy of the post. So I want you to read it and then we’re gonna go around the table for comments. But there are some questions I want you to answer while you’re reading it. First of all, is this the type of behavior we expected our counselors what action should we take it any the possibilities are do nothing reprimand, censure remove as liaison from boards and commissions that those are options that we have any comments at all?

Speaker 1 43:23
So I do want to talk to you also after this about the public invited to be heard comment that I made. So let’s make our comments on this succinct and then your

Unknown Speaker 43:42
your action

Unknown Speaker 43:50

Speaker 1 44:06
So the email I got said Is this what the employee basically what the employees of the city is accepting? We are not employees in the city or employees in the residence so

Speaker 2 44:25
much I will start with you. You should first of all this has taken extremely context. Second, it’s on my personal Facebook page and within themselves on my personal Facebook page is this is my first personal Facebook page. Nothing I say here is speaking for the city of Longmont or the city of the city council performed. What was happening is these are posts In about the incursion of homeless people into, into Dickens Farm Park like Morial day, and everybody was upset because they’re scared of homeless people in order to go to Vegas. And the discussion was about constitutional rights. Why are these people there? Why don’t you just throw them out of town? And I said, Well, you know, they have constitutional rights, and they can’t be moved along until they’ve been ticketed. I went back and forth with the rangers and police and Herald all about what could be done what could not be done. And was essentially trying to say you have to treat homeless people like people. And I don’t remember what the previous thing was. But yeah, that is that you don’t want our systems to work. That was the app the acquisition that the accusation that conscripted have made to me. And I, I mean, this guy has a thing for me so for example. I was involved with an anti Valentine’s Day Kenyatta events at Walmart Public Media, anti Valentine’s Day is is a joke, right? I mean, it’s a it’s a thing for singles who are not partnered, and are not going to be partnered, and nobody’s buying dinner. And so you know, it’s a fun thing. Well, this guy thinks that a woman is getting help for places, she makes fun of Valentine’s Day because she’s threatening the male supremacist version of the male female bond. And he said as much to me. And in fact, this thread has a house for reference all the way. Back to that, so I think that first of all, I was acting properly. Second, this, this guy is out to discredit me. And very much just his free speech on my Facebook, on my personal Facebook page, this

Speaker 1 47:47
isn’t really about what the other person did. This is really about your post. Questions, so I’m Erin.

Speaker 1 48:06
No, they’re not here for this. Are you here for the LA Jamie? Okay.

Unknown Speaker 48:19
She is, you gotta go. Yeah.

Speaker 4 48:31
I guess my question, Marsha, is that if one of us had said all the stuff that Jude said, you know, and posted all of that saying this was your, our private Facebook page and everything like that, but the tables returned, and it was one of your colleagues here? How would you feel?

Unknown Speaker 48:58

Unknown Speaker 49:00
I have so many

Speaker 4 49:03
lead magnet teacher and advisor to students, with student groups. You know, I often talk to them about, you know, your, your outward phase on social media, and nobody wants to take away anybody’s civil rights or anything like that. It just, you know, part of the thing that we do as adults is try to model the what is the best way to do things? And probably when the internet was kind of young, and Twitter was kind of young and 15 years ago, everybody was kind of shooting from the hip, right? This sort of thing was more common, is people didn’t really know how long they would stay out there and perpetuate the society that at this point, we know that everything we ever put out in the internet at any point is there for forever

Speaker 1 50:01
So, Tim, Aaron CCTV here.

Speaker 6 50:07
Yeah, I was I wasn’t gonna weigh in. I’m sorry. No, no, no, I was totally raised by that which was addressed. I will say personally that unless it says we even counsel say this, I believe it is a freedom of speech issue personally, it stylistically. I know, I don’t engage on Facebook, I find it personally, to waste my time. But more powerful, I shed a lot of times, I’ll be honest with you, you know, I raised my little defining resistance fist, you tell him, you know, and so I can’t condemn it. Because to me, it doesn’t break any rules. It’s not, again, not stylistically what I would do, but I don’t, I don’t. I think you know, I’m capable of teachers that you’re trying to serve. And I wish politicians at large would actually try to set that example. Maybe that’s simply not the truth, and not technically their jobs either. But, and so therefore, I don’t think it’s Martius job to teach a teenager, how to be civil on social media. And so having seen many interactions, so when someone says, I think that Marsha does a good job, separating the council’s position in her position, and I therefore don’t take issue with how she uses Facebook,

Speaker 2 51:37
Susan, so thank you for bringing that up. Because we do teach digital responsibilities. Yeah, citizenship. So it’s under digital literacy. But a portion of it is our citizenship and conducting herself one of the frustrations that I’ve had since being on council, and this is not in relation to a particular, but I think I’ve had a conversation with you. I know, I’ve had conversations with Sandy is, you know, and why I desired seeing our rules and procedure updated. That includes a social media component. You know, and I don’t see any reference to her, you know, on this particular one, looking at that as a, you know, her identifying as a council or, you know, to what parents claimed that we are a council that we as a council believe this. So, but, you know, again, it’s like, our rules of procedure are very vague, and it doesn’t lay the light what particular I think about when as if my union pacity we are dealing with members who are being reprimanded for whatever issue, you know, we go we comb through the Master Agreement, which violation occurred here, we scroll through our, our board policy, what, what component was violated here, and, you know, as I’m kind of scrolling up and down our own, who’s procedure, what violation specifically, can we pinpoint here? You know, because then it becomes our, our own personal assumption of okay, well, this person says this, and therefore that’s a violation, it becomes very subjective. Okay. So yeah, you know, my, my feeling is we need to update this to some kind of social media component. And how do we address that? Yeah. And again, like, this is not horrible.

Unknown Speaker 53:35
So you’re okay with the preceding?

Speaker 2 53:38
I think, you know, there is a fine line between that is that it is free speech.

Speaker 5 53:46
Personal Finance, I don’t Sure. Honestly, with any of the Facebook pages, unless you were representing near city council, in doing so. We care about Marsha can whatever he or she wants to do with her Facebook pages up or Marshall. Personally, I spend a lot of time in social media space. And if I was going to use just the honest truth. If I was going to make a list of things that I think could be egregious, that are far more for me, a much bigger issue than this are things that happen in the council chamber that we do in public. Honestly, if I was going to pick up things to take on, you wouldn’t be this.

Speaker 1 54:29
I just have to answer this. And I’m not going to do well. So I want

Speaker 5 54:33
to share my responsibility to say if that if somebody wrote me an email, complaining about anyone, any of the council members in the Facebook page, I said, let’s say social media is not the purview. We don’t have policies in government social media that is human. It’s the Wild West. I spend a lot of time in there. Communicate, you can communicate directly to Marsha, Marsha, Rachel, letter to the editor. Do what If you think you need to do go run for office, go support a candidate. But you got to have an address to have a peel box to do that. So supporting candidates, I said tongue in cheek notices. First person, I just don’t think. And I think if we start down that path, then if I get emails about you have got other counselors, do I bring that here? somebody’s complaining about something that happened or

Speaker 1 55:25
didn’t happen when you know, we brought this up in our retreat about social media. So for me, this is a good place to start. As we look at procedure, and we look at decorum. We now have an opinion out there of the majority of counsel. And that’s what

Unknown Speaker 55:42
I want it this is an either, right in terms of I know, I would

Speaker 1 55:45
never say those things. Anybody or anybody like me, for me, you know your language? This

Speaker 5 55:55
given up before Yeah, no, no citizen in the in the retreat when we talked about social media. Now, I took my cues from Sandy, really, if you you know, if you do this, if you actually, I’ve seen your postings from from error, right, with information about when she does a really good job. Like I’m what Aaron does on social media on Facebook, bringing to attention to potential for public things that are going on the city’s like, what is he looking at this? So I appreciate you thinking I might do the same thing. But the question from Sandy was Be careful right now on social media because of what you can and can’t do. Do you have to allow this screw that? I am all I can do it? Right, and I’m gonna do it spend much time on social media.

Speaker 4 56:53
Margins? Yeah, I think there was there was a case that brought that said that public officials can now block people that I recommended recommendation to you. And I wasn’t trying to be critical in the sense there in regards that I probably use all this colorful language that’s that your business to tennis went to and errands. But But I, you know, I would probably block this guy and get him out of your life because he’s clearly here.

Unknown Speaker 57:30
Yeah, so. Okay,

Speaker 2 57:32
I have a really quick, I have a couple of questions. So one, just recognizing that was this on your personal page or voice of last month? It was was it? Okay, so that’s my personal. That’s your personal account. So that’s, you know, that that is also a factor. The other financial question. Stick my mind. Oh, I guess no, it was the impacts the staff. That was the only thing that makes me cautious about ever posting anything, even if it’s something very benign or informational is if it is not totally I get worried that if it could get taken out of context or escalating the impacts get the impact that it has on the calls and staff. That would be my only concern, as a word of caution.

Unknown Speaker 58:20
Okay, Marsha. We’re almost done.

Speaker 2 58:23
Yep. So I guess the thing that I like, so we’re looking at, I said, this is a stupid way of looking at the world. And do I have to be a freedom painting before Sharon’s kids to do my job. And, and it’s almost as if those are the only things in the posts. But really what the post was about

Speaker 1 58:52
smash up? I’m gonna cut you off there, because you did. Yeah, a lot. I do. And the reason is, I want what I wanted from this group, and I got it was not what the other person said. That’s irrelevant.

Speaker 2 59:06
No, you’re talking about what I said, John. All right. I wanted to talk about was we don’t have the right to learn homeless people out on the rail. That was the statement that preceded this. And it resulted in me getting getting no, it’s gonna take longer than more often that I’m interrupted. That me getting called someone who wanted to take a loss of the system to break down. Thank you. So So you think because I defend the rights of people that I don’t want our system to work. I want our systems to work. The truth is that everybody listening works as hard as they can to make this a good place. Part of keeping you all safe. is helping you understand everyone’s rights and responsibilities. Do you know that nobody called to complain about the campers. And that’s the citizens rights and responsibilities. If I had not responded to the Facebook, Dickens reports, this nobody bothered to call, they just went and posted it on Facebook. Then other things going on elsewhere in the city, by the testimony of the city manager would have been prioritized above this channel, these people would have continued to be unhappy. So even though I’m doing it as myself and engaged, but fairly well informed citizen, I am, in fact, doing my best to get people to act right. By educating Phil. And if you look at that dialogue, that’s the spring into that post. Go Campbell likes and see to the public in general agrees with Helen.

Speaker 1 1:01:14
All right, so I will just answer this gentleman as you directed to tell him it’s free speech and she has the right to say whatever she wants. And so social media is basically I’m sorry, I wanted to talk to you about the reasons why I object tried to resign about the public might be heard but it is seven o’clock and we have the allergy.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:42
So thank you all should be adjourned.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:45

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