Video Description:
Council Pre Session – Feb 20, 2024
Read along below:
Unknown Speaker 0:00
But we can go ahead and start on this pre session. So let’s do a real pump because that’s all we really need. And we use first names and it’s very informal so she can use when starting to go around. She Katy
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Perry Reagan’s Marsha Martin, Susie Belga fairings Jochen, Shannon, Diane, Chris.
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And we do that because people can listen. So
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let’s do a fast
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update on our boards, Commission’s whatever whoever wants to go first
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can go.
Unknown Speaker 0:46
Okay, golfer, they just elected new officers, and they haven’t been the talk about the bond project updates. So some of the things that they’re doing, they’re like they’re having this really great sprinkler system put in at sunset, where they can really see where the dry spots are. And when it’s over
Unknown Speaker 1:04
consortium cities at a mental health roundtable discussion. And then
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at the behavior health roadmap, presented to us, the county, and the Parks and Rec guy had a yearly accomplishment, PowerPoint where every aspect of the department went through everything, and they are having, you’ll see in the new rec program for the spring, some new fee increases and everything and then just like to talk a little bit about
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they’re not able to meet their mark, in regards to
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sometimes 80% coverage. There are costs in maybe at some point, talk about what that looks like. Is there a sweet spot where that
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is
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on our golf courses,
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anyone else with a motion?
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Just a heads up, there’s going to be a fairly substantial
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request for money for pump station
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to the channel is that its end of life and
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analyzes
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existing pump station, there’s no good way to upgrade it. So they have to do
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have an email notes not succeeded in finding it don’t have a
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rough estimate that they weren’t given. But it’s it’s instinctual. Did you get one from Kim? Errol?
Unknown Speaker 2:55
I think they briefed me on it. I don’t think I have an email on it.
Unknown Speaker 3:00
It’s too soon to have a firm estimate. But it’s
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something that somehow
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got
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no, yeah, it’s I mean, it’s four years old. So this, sadly was everywhere. Everybody knows, that’s how long old fashioned electric
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power equipment works. And it should have been in somebody’s budget for
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seven years or so. So that we could be building up the fund.
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But, so that’s an ugly surprise.
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Other board stuff, the not much because the
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the senior advisory board is the most active board that they have, has decided to
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educate themselves and do their own research for their segment of the population on affordable housing and the housing insecurity. So they are probably going to be they have they have set the goal of
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producing some budget recommendations this month or next month, but they aren’t there yet. So
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we’ve done a lot of work so
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we’re happy about
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replacing the Pope. No,
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no, it’s it’s like they put the transformer so close together that you can’t
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squeezing the cords in. So
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Okay, who’s next?
Unknown Speaker 4:45
Yeah, I can go um, well, transportation. We talked about the new the coordinator coordinator for the task force. Vision Zero was there
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We pretty much just went over our the plan put together of what we’ll be doing the plan, the mobility plan, and everything. Also, there was a lot of discussion about
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from board board members about the streets not being plowed. And there’s a misunderstanding with some of the board members that want the bike lanes cloud, during the snow. And so we had that discussion.
Unknown Speaker 5:32
So it was kind of hard, and I was quiet for a long, huge part of it until I just couldn’t take it anymore. And then I had to say that, you know, we have a shortage of staff, and
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it’s important for our students to be proud and
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and then what the complaint was that was that the Bay Area what cars park, you know, they say, Well, why don’t you some people were asking, Well, why don’t you make the cars move and things like that? So one of the things we did talk about, you know, like in major cities that get a lot of snow like Chicago and New York and things like that they were talking about they have signs up, they set during this period of time for them to plow that, you know, a car can be that kind of like when sweepers come and sweep this city, you know, the streets. So we did discuss that. I don’t know how feasible that is, but that may come back and I have no clue how
Unknown Speaker 6:34
long my sister cities we
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we still don’t know when Japan is. But there was a parent meeting with some of the other cities of Mexico and those who are going to Mexico and Northern Arapaho.
Unknown Speaker 6:53
What else? Advil to Naita on Thursday morning, so I haven’t gone to that one. Thursday. What else am I missing?
Unknown Speaker 7:05
Oh LDA we have our retreat on the 28th
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Yeah.
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Anyone else
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okay, so
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the north I 25 coalition, the busting and the transportation hub there
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can proud or 119 And I 25. They think it’d be done in four to seven months.
Unknown Speaker 7:42
Would be nice to have micro Transit Connect with that, but it seems like micro transit is gonna go to about sandstone ranch where the city limiters. So we’ve got about three miles between there and the hub.
Unknown Speaker 7:56
And industrious person needs to start a business to
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pick up and drum or we need to find way to have micro transit go out that far.
Unknown Speaker 8:06
So there’s some enthusiasm for it because ride down to Denver, or up to Fort Collins. And that’s lluvia
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self going platform on the west side of the highway and
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North platform on the east side of the highway. And they’ve expanded that park right there too. And I believe the tunnel that goes underneath is
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so there’s access for bicycles and
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pedestrians to get across the highway safer.
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See
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the questions
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we tried to get to the last mile now we got three more miles. We’ll figure it out. I’m sure.
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So then there’s a long, long economic development.
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We had our retreat at the end of January, because a lot of discussion was there to show me know how to focus everything that we talked about.
Unknown Speaker 9:18
So we’ll just leave it at that. To be continued. There’s a lot of conversation about five different areas. We’ve heard a lot of that in our retreat. And so how that develops
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just did the
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the verb today in terms of the retirement pension.
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We negotiated the mix a little bit with the word there. We’ve decided that we’re gonna meet our
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target point next year, retired retirees. And then there’s a ribbon cutting over here the
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passport is what
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appears to be the dickens
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I’m about to see the dickens opera house up there to which they’re going to have opera here in March. Isn’t that nice? Opera exercise their second and third, right over here on the third. And
Unknown Speaker 10:14
that’s pretty exciting. I feel like I’m missing one.
Unknown Speaker 10:19
Oh, visit online. And that’ll be Monday. So I’m always just, there’s a whole month
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I was trying to go back and think about Museum. That was the one where we talked. So I have museum advisor, the next one, right, Wednesday.
Unknown Speaker 10:40
Wasn’t last week, the last Wednesday.
Unknown Speaker 10:44
So you know, and I guess I want to give a shout out to Don, I think she was the one who coordinated all this training for the members, the
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board members on
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board orientation, or Yes, yes. Yes. So I’ve heard a lot of outstanding feedback from the members of the museum and library advisory board members who have attended good, so they just have nothing but rave review. So.
Unknown Speaker 11:16
So, yeah, so that was good at the museum Advisory Board, one of the
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things that we discussed was, you know, we’re kind of keeping track of how much money they acquired for their $8.1 million goal for the expansion. And we’re at 85%. of the way, that’s impossible. Yes, yes.
Unknown Speaker 11:41
Our doors closed? I don’t know.
Unknown Speaker 11:45
I’m sure you can have less than that. So I absolutely. But also, I know, something bigger than that, or Yeah, like when we donated to, we lived in San Diego, Petco Park, oh, yeah, rebuilt, when they built the stadium,
Unknown Speaker 12:05
we should not have been able to put it up, get a placard. So our little name is on there, because we’ve done so. So things like that there’s, there’s opportunities to have recognition for that. So that’s those great news. In our in, you know, they’re they’re doing what they do, and getting those programs out and, and reaching out, especially with youth engagement. So it sounds like they’re their mission, they’ve, we’re updating their vision statement. So really putting a focus on youth engagement, getting more
Unknown Speaker 12:40
active participants in that role. And then for the library.
Unknown Speaker 12:48
You know, we were looking at, it seems like for this group, they really just want to know more how they can be an active group. And so really working with the Friends of the Library, finding ways to gain funds to support they, again, they were asking me, you know, what’s our commitment to the library as far as sustainable programs and staffing because that’s, that’s been an area of concern, especially since the ballot measures didn’t pass, one of the time where
Unknown Speaker 13:24
I was looking at the organizational chart, so one of the things we were looking at was just the staffing overall. So all of the library staff can fit nicely into one page. So even down to the temp staff. So it’s not really when we think about large scale things of what they do is in the community, it’s not a lot of people doing a lot of work. And so how, you know, and I think this is where they’re kind of pondering how they’re going to re rethink some things as far as around adult programming, I’d seem like the emphasis was really keeping those children programming, you know, another option would be to charge for adult classes, whereas before they didn’t, a lot of members on the board did not like that because they felt like we’re a public entity we should be providing these services for free. So there’s still ongoing debate on how they can cut corners but still provide quality
Unknown Speaker 14:33
programming and as well as things that we can’t necessarily see like those digital you know, the all those people are accessing
Unknown Speaker 14:43
books and online materials through the digital format, but that also costs money. So while we might not be able to see it, like a brick and mortar building, or the books,
Unknown Speaker 14:56
these are things that are costing that are you know, waiting on the
Unknown Speaker 15:00
On the library budget, and so what what do we as a council prioritize and are we going to put our money where our mouth is kind of record the whole thing. So let them know that I was going to convey
Unknown Speaker 15:13
that, you know, it’s there. They’re working to try to find ways to cut things, but be more concise, and be more concise. But there are things that are non negotiable. And that would be the truly the children’s programming, and the stuff that Lillian does out in the community. And she had just, she does do a lot of support with the schools. And you know, she’s a one man, one woman operation, and she does great work. So you know, we really hate you burnout, I think, was another top area of concern that we were having that people are getting expanded too much, as well as our people at the desk circulation. So they’re dealing with a lot of angry people coming to the, you know, demanding things or being upset, because for whatever reason,
Unknown Speaker 16:07
they’ve received some things about wanting books removed for being inappropriate. So essentially, the banning of the book
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had that kind of conversation. And so really, the ones that are having to deal with it are, you know, the people at the information desk, the circulation desk, temp workers are lower paid,
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wages earners are happy to Gene volunteer
Unknown Speaker 16:35
for too wet to be the person who says we don’t burn books. Oh, yeah, exactly. And no, but John has been really good about, it’s like, okay, well, thank you for your concern. I’m not going to pull that book. And
Unknown Speaker 16:49
that’s it. And so he’s been really busy later. See you later. Don’t check it out. So what else? What other and then our cab was the other one I was trying to remember because we have an upcoming our cab, one of the big so we separate out and just subcommittees. So the subcommittee I’m working on is soil. So in that discussion, the people that I was with, had been talking about, and then when we came back as a bigger group, this also became a topic, what big concern or talk is that we don’t have a local or regional composting facility. So really wanting to find work with Boulder County finding a way to bake, you know, I was very quiet, I have my own ideas and things, but I just was listening at that point. So I didn’t really
Unknown Speaker 17:44
you know, I agree.
Unknown Speaker 17:47
But I should have mentioned in the scope resolution,
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system building advisory board.
Unknown Speaker 17:56
So I think it’s Yeah, exactly. So I kind of cut into that.
Unknown Speaker 18:02
So yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:09
So as a Human Services Board,
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early years, just normal stuff, electing officers approving bylaws,
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or close posting, where the meetings are, that kind of stuff, as well as,
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as they’ve done over the past few years, you know, improved their grant application process. So they’re still continuing to explore more ways to improve that process, before they really get into the meat of that season.
Unknown Speaker 18:42
All the same thing with planning zoning, all they went through was election chain and all that.
Unknown Speaker 18:49
And then they were informed that because Master Board of Appeals cannot make quorum, that that will be taking on some of that workload. And so they’ll be hearing their first view variants as
Unknown Speaker 19:03
sort of the basket Board of Appeals on the 28th tomorrow night, they their meeting will just be a couple of presentations. One I believe on division zero. I think the other one might be the housing assessment that we are here for
Unknown Speaker 19:22
and GLA just had Harold in for the state of the city. So
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thanks
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Stephanie.
Unknown Speaker 19:33
So I’m pretty excited that we just got a news release something that I’ve been working on for basically 10 years and
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so
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C dot c dot prepper trashy rail and RTD per the group that gov post put together. Our have been told
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Basically that they’re going to form a JPA a joint partnership authority, just like every other authority in other states like the Port Authority in New York, the transit authority in Chicago etc. And with that
Unknown Speaker 20:17
part of the fives mid to fast trucks internal savings account for the Northwest corridor is going to go to putting in whatever we need to get that corridor started. And then it’s going to transfer to Front Range passenger rail, so it’ll no longer be our TD and the reason for that is a front rail passenger rail is is passenger rail. RTD is commuter rail, there is no dollars, commuter rail would be in FTA. And
Unknown Speaker 20:51
passenger rail is fra so that way they get federal funding through the same funding that fr that the Front Range passenger rail district is getting to finish that it’ll be the first link from Denver, to Longmont to Fort Collins will be the first leg in front range passenger rail. So with any luck, we would get out of the tags for for cut for pas.
Unknown Speaker 21:21
I’m so excited about this.
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We’ve been working on it for so long.
Unknown Speaker 21:29
So the tax for RTD Northwest corridor would go away, and we would get the train.
Unknown Speaker 21:39
So for us, it’s a win win. However, there will be in Governor poses pushing for a tax on Front Range passenger rail, on the November ballot.
Unknown Speaker 21:53
And I really am in favor of this because instead of putting another 20 years on for the Northwest corridor, I think they can finish that very first segment from Union Station to Fort Collins within a seven year time period. So that would be the first that’s the first laid in there’s I just sent all of you the news release. So you can read. And
Unknown Speaker 22:19
so without reading the news release, is there any chance to prove what you said about getting out from under the origin? Just tasks? That would be announced before though, of course, because that’s what I’ve been saying that’s all is that
Unknown Speaker 22:37
we are not I said I’m not going to have the residents of Boulder County paid to rail taxes, one of them’s never going to happen. And the other one is a real Rail
Unknown Speaker 22:52
Authority. It’s really rail, whereas RTD is not it’s not really a done deal. What I’m hearing on the FRP, our board just had an executive session this morning is that
Unknown Speaker 23:06
it’s just flipped the north with our TD has been yelling that we’re paying a lot of money. And we haven’t gotten anything. And now the south
Unknown Speaker 23:16
FRP Our board is saying, oh yeah, oh, this is going into the north. What about the south. So it kind of made me smile at the meeting. But the difference is that both RTD and FRP are, are statutory created by the legislature. So the governor and the legislature can mandate.
Unknown Speaker 23:38
So I’m excited that we’re going to make some headway. And I think it’s a good, it’s a good plan.
Unknown Speaker 23:46
So the other thing is that elmen Chinese New Year is Monday. So Tim waters is going to be the emcee. And I’m gonna give the opening remark and then read the proclamation. So
Unknown Speaker 24:01
the historic preservation commission, by the way, they’re very happy about our vote.
Unknown Speaker 24:06
They are going to have their retreat next week. So refer to that.
Unknown Speaker 24:12
So far, that’s all
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there are things in that plan. They may use the RGB checks as the contribution
Unknown Speaker 24:23
FRP our talents
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transferred over which it’s one of the options. And this isn’t a done deal. This is their concept and Harold and I met with these Kaufman and John.
Unknown Speaker 24:46
And basically, they said that Lamar is pivotal, pivotal in the Front Range passenger rail district, that we have to do the Northwest border.
Unknown Speaker 24:59
Thank you
Unknown Speaker 25:00
In this is the one I was alluding to on those transportation projects and core services, that if this happens, and they compress it in seven years, we’ve got your first patriotic moment. So it’s really exactly the same time. So that’s going to
Unknown Speaker 25:17
press us in the work and how we started to get to it and a train stop, because the trains are much bigger than a bus taller, so they probably won’t be able to go into the transit station. And we did walk that corridor and there were there was a lot of really good compensations that little red train station, they talked about moving that over
Unknown Speaker 25:42
and making that the train stop. Which would be kind of cool, because it’s historical, cute liquor store that doesn’t
Unknown Speaker 25:53
really get a lot of writers.
Unknown Speaker 25:57
On first, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 26:02
Yeah. Okay. So that that is.
Unknown Speaker 26:05
So it’s very exciting for me. And that’s all we got. One thing that I think we just completed a video that I have with the kids at the Youth and Family Services for the
Unknown Speaker 26:20
life skills fair March 30. So be looking out video. I haven’t seen it yet. But they think I got the email about it. So I clicked on it.
Unknown Speaker 26:32
So yeah, I just wanted to make sure that, you know,
Unknown Speaker 26:37
some of the talk to your students, and
Unknown Speaker 26:42
so I’ve been letting parents know during parent teacher, okay, awesome. Yeah. Okay. So I’m super excited. And target mate coming in and give us some money for two. So fantastic.
Unknown Speaker 26:54
Cool.
Unknown Speaker 26:56
The other thing, micro transit.
Unknown Speaker 27:00
So we’re here on the ninth and talking about this came up actually because of real car step, who is the mayor of Berkeley.
Unknown Speaker 27:10
And he wants a rail stop for the Front Range passenger rail, so we met.
Unknown Speaker 27:16
And, of course, he’s not going to get one right away. But we’re doing the micro transit here and doesn’t forget calling him micro transit.
Unknown Speaker 27:27
Well, but everybody’s looking at it,
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as well as birthday.
Unknown Speaker 27:34
So what actually, Harold’s idea was that we need to talk to Firestone, Fred Frederick, birth in Fort Collins, and see if all of the cities couldn’t get micro transit. And then they could go border to border to your point, that there’s that three mile that we could make connections that way so that everybody has availability to go from the bus terminals to the rail terminals.
Unknown Speaker 28:07
That that’s an option.
Unknown Speaker 28:09
Because I do feel bad for Frederick and Firestone RTD just goes
Unknown Speaker 28:15
up and won’t cross over. They’re not.
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So
Unknown Speaker 28:21
now they have the park and ride on their side. And they also have better trails. And one thing about the past, underneath the highway is connects as a transportation board that was concerned about transportation, transportation, bicycle, you know how to get across that highways now? That’s correct. But bus thing, also is, is one of the stops there as well.
Unknown Speaker 28:46
So I Mr. Tsuda, RTDs. Is there any idea how much the tax rate will be
Unknown Speaker 28:53
for range passenger rail, or no, we haven’t decided no, we’re also we’re discussing of making
Unknown Speaker 29:01
only the section that is being developed to pay the taxes. And then we’ll add the sections to say don’t stop paying the tax once it’s built. But if you’re not going to have it for 15 years, then you don’t have to pay the tax, which we’ll do we get credit for 20 years of paying.
Unknown Speaker 29:24
Well, it says we do because part of the FISA count is going to go to doing the I would say I don’t know exactly what they need. BNSF is giving their analysis for that route, hopefully in March, beginning of April. So whatever it is that BNSF says they need to do on that one. I think that’s what that dollars of FISA that we have paid just over because there are three other unfinished corridors that have been paying the price of two
Unknown Speaker 30:00
There’s about $180 million in there. We can’t take all of it because of those other three corridors. And then that portion of our money will go to doing the upgrades that BNSF says we need to do. We want to get it back, but it will be invested for what it was supposed to be invested in. All. So
Unknown Speaker 30:27
yeah.
Unknown Speaker 30:29
Yeah. It’s pretty involved. Very excited.
Unknown Speaker 30:34
Supposed to be ready to go and June or September, I mean, on
Unknown Speaker 30:39
the roadway work continues.
Unknown Speaker 30:42
A lot of transportation options. Well, we’re moving along. So it’s good. So let’s move into the ethics. Didn’t everybody or anybody read this?
Unknown Speaker 30:56
Okay, I want to make a correction before we get your input. Because the last this will be the last discussion on this and then we’ll go to council for a motion
Unknown Speaker 31:12
as soon as is if we make corrections that may have to correct come back.
Unknown Speaker 31:18
The one thing I’m what is correct before we go in is that the meaning of what it’s on the last page.
Unknown Speaker 31:32
And and this draft, actually, this last draft was put together with a conversation with legal Eugene, May and Harold and we discussed the former draft and pull this all together. So under complaints it says upon receipt of the hearing officers written the interpretation and or recommendation regarding a complaint, the city clerk shall provide written notice to the complainant, that’s not really true.
Unknown Speaker 32:03
The city it will go to the city clerk’s office, but the city clerk’s office won’t read any of the complaints. It’s she’s just going to be a pass through. And then the pastor will go to the hearing officers mailbox. And the reason that I think it’s important that it goes as a pastor is that we need somebody to track these complaints.
Unknown Speaker 32:30
Because we haven’t heard anything back.
Unknown Speaker 32:34
She they can put it on their calendar, checking two weeks check in the month, see see if there’s any traction on it at all. So
Unknown Speaker 32:45
the other thing is that the drop down box for complaints? I had talked to my writer, I think I told you this before she left and in and they helped put this together that will be on the new webpage.
Unknown Speaker 33:01
drop down box for more complaints can be made.
Unknown Speaker 33:08
Did you read it? Or shall we read it again? Disclosure of confidential information if a conflict of interest improper influence or treatment, quasi judicial proceedings, advisor advisory opinion and other violations of state law or the charter or code pertaining to ethical conduct.
Unknown Speaker 33:32
So did anyone want anything different? Do you think that
Unknown Speaker 33:41
there? Those are adequate? Should we add more? I think they’re adequate. But I’m looking under complaints and advisory payments. Is that where the word changes?
Unknown Speaker 33:55
No, then that’s the that’s the second the last one other violation of state law or the charter of code. Did you get that?
Unknown Speaker 34:07
I’m unclear where we are. It is under what page section. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 34:15
Line so it’s four page
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that’s the second one that one right there on
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the drop down
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that’s my page for
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you viewer it’s on page four, four. Okay. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 34:36
So
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the reason that these are here and Tim waters brought this up actually of
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complaints when we call
Unknown Speaker 34:51
it just frivolous. Thank you. Oh, that you would keep out frivolous complaints. That
Unknown Speaker 34:59
double event
Unknown Speaker 35:00
If I didn’t like the way he talked to me, so, exactly.
Unknown Speaker 35:04
So that leaves that out, and it says, who’s complaining and
Unknown Speaker 35:10
it’s quasi judicial, you want to explain what that is?
Unknown Speaker 35:18
So,
Unknown Speaker 35:19
yeah, you’re the best.
Unknown Speaker 35:22
So somewhere here in the definition
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it’s a
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page three in the viewer.
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It’s
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C for under rules of conduct, it’s the last one.
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And
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planning Zoning Commission in the city council will serve as visual
Unknown Speaker 35:50
decision makers on certain matters, traditionally land use. And this is where you’re applying pre existing criteria to a single property and property owners.
Unknown Speaker 36:02
Property rights are at stake. And so there are due process protections for those quasi judicial proceedings. So ensure a fair and impartial hearing.
Unknown Speaker 36:13
And this rule of conduct basically says if, say, counsel is the decision maker in a quasi judicial proceeding, you will not
Unknown Speaker 36:25
represent or participate in proceeding from the other side of the dice.
Unknown Speaker 36:31
Because that would be improper for you to be a decision maker, and also participate either on behalf of the applicant or in opposition.
Unknown Speaker 36:43
So how does that work with if you’re on the old
Unknown Speaker 36:46
Florida
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zoning are in a liaison court or with the historic preservation commission, for instance,
Unknown Speaker 36:56
management has to
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have those types of property rights involved.
Unknown Speaker 37:04
Just so you know about the situation before it becomes before counsel. So you’ve already developed an opinion or participated in some decisions
Unknown Speaker 37:14
or against the owners.
Unknown Speaker 37:18
decision making about the property.
Unknown Speaker 37:22
So there are rules that protected process,
Unknown Speaker 37:27
the one you’ll often hear from me is no ex parte communications, you shouldn’t be speaking to anybody outside of the hearing process. The whole idea is that you make the decision based on evidence presented.
Unknown Speaker 37:41
If you have some other
Unknown Speaker 37:44
contact or affiliation with the property,
Unknown Speaker 37:48
My general advice is it needs to be safe for the band, coaches,
Unknown Speaker 37:56
boats, the pump house, the decide a lot of things on Main Street. And in terms of the conflict, it’s whether there’s any special treatment or burden on that property different from all those other businesses in the industry, because we have citizen boards, and we have citizens elected to City Council.
Unknown Speaker 38:19
That’s the beauty of it. Here, you’re in the community and you can’t, it’d be unreasonable to say, no interest whatsoever. That’s why the standard is a special burden, or special treatment, particular geographic, different from those.
Unknown Speaker 38:36
That make sense.
Unknown Speaker 38:38
Somewhat specific to the situation.
Unknown Speaker 38:43
Yes. But if you were in planning and zoning, you’d have voted members, so you might just be there to hear it. So it’s not like it’s a probably yours. You might at that hearing, starting to beat your head to formulate an opinion about them. But you as long as you’ve done saying to members of the public or anything, what you’ve already formulated, is that.
Unknown Speaker 39:11
You know, council members and board members are allowed to educate themselves on the matter before them. Certainly on staff reports.
Unknown Speaker 39:20
You know, that’s why I generally discourage site visits, because then you have information that the other council members or peazy members don’t have.
Unknown Speaker 39:31
You know, there’s some sort of remedial
Unknown Speaker 39:34
processes, you know, you can recuse.
Unknown Speaker 39:38
You can disclose whatever contact you’ve had,
Unknown Speaker 39:43
and make a decision
Unknown Speaker 39:46
on your own whether you can remain a fair and impartial decision maker, or under the rules of procedure, you can ask the body to
Unknown Speaker 39:56
vote whether they think you can remain fair
Unknown Speaker 40:00
To
Unknown Speaker 40:03
answer the questions, well, I was thinking that if you, you know, just because you’re on that board and you attend the meeting, that you’re not a voting member, and you just paid attention while he were there doesn’t mean that you
Unknown Speaker 40:17
even if you start to establish at that point, your own opinions on those things, as long as you’re not talking to members of the public about,
Unknown Speaker 40:26
about your opinion on that before we have a hearing in the city council, you’re you’re safe if you start having having conversations.
Unknown Speaker 40:36
After that, plenty of Zoning Commission meeting with city using them with for example, because we’re talking oftentimes about property
Unknown Speaker 40:44
issues, then that would probably do this, you need to have a conversation
Unknown Speaker 40:52
about fusing yourself but otherwise, it’s not. It shouldn’t be a big deal. I mean, everybody’s going to have an opinion. You can have your own opinion and yourself. There are ex parte communication rules under the due process protection. So if you’ve attended the hearing,
Unknown Speaker 41:12
you should not be communicating with City Council decision
Unknown Speaker 41:17
to preserve due process protections for all parties.
Unknown Speaker 41:22
So there is the question that residents will
Unknown Speaker 41:28
objection that residents will
Unknown Speaker 41:31
often make, which is I know that council member does not agree with our positions because of their campaign statements they make during the campaign.
Unknown Speaker 41:42
That’s not an ex parte commission, nor is it a reason why they should recuse.
Unknown Speaker 41:49
That’s not an ex parte
Unknown Speaker 41:52
communication. It could be a prejudgment, which is sort of a different sort of category of the due process protections, if you
Unknown Speaker 42:02
an extreme case already have expressed, you know, I’m gonna vote this thing down no matter what happens, then maybe why not be able to obtain a fair and impartial decision maker based on the evidence presented?
Unknown Speaker 42:15
In that circumstance? They have to recuse yourself. It just it’s very fact. So that would be though there would be a distinction between
Unknown Speaker 42:25
campaigning regarding a specific parcel of land or or case as opposed to
Unknown Speaker 42:36
the general idea of how the
Unknown Speaker 42:40
planning area should be treated? Yes, I’d say so. Each one is going to be a
Unknown Speaker 42:46
that specifically you’re
Unknown Speaker 42:49
going to differ between a legislative act. And
Unknown Speaker 42:53
so legislative act
Unknown Speaker 42:55
uses annexation,
Unknown Speaker 42:58
the zoning and the variances that’s cause our condition. And they’re just different.
Unknown Speaker 43:08
Okay, so
Unknown Speaker 43:10
some of the questions, Eugene, a lot of times when we start seeing things that we think are going to be an issue, Eugene will send emails to you, and say, highly likely, this is going to be quasi judicial, we recommend that you don’t engage in conversations. And sometimes we’ll do that really early in the process.
Unknown Speaker 43:31
Thanks. Thank you. So do you want anything changed on how the complaint will go to a website?
Unknown Speaker 43:42
The complaint is made, it goes to the city clerk’s office, she will route it on to and this is my other question.
Unknown Speaker 43:54
We have discussed in previous three sessions about who is going to pay attention or who is going to be the third party to hear the complaint. Should it be a hearing board? Should it be a task force or a hearing officer? There didn’t seem to be any discussion. So I put a hearing officer in here, because my conversations with Harold. And before we have comments, because Carol might have to leave.
Unknown Speaker 44:28
Tell us why you think the hearing officer is a good fit. Oh, there’s a few things one, and first and foremost, to think about our involvement in this the biggest issue for us was we did not want staff involved in in any way. And so the hearing officer they tend to have their own staff that can support them. And so we can get away with and deal with the
Unknown Speaker 44:52
leaking go in and just manage it so we don’t have to touch it if you have a board and that’s going to require staff involved
Unknown Speaker 45:00
I’m going to that process because you’re gonna need Somebody to support.
Unknown Speaker 45:04
You, everything we talked about is the Hidden Hearing Officer, we use them all the time
Unknown Speaker 45:11
for personnel decisions and things like that they’re always separate and apart from it, and they’re really there’s no way to make a political argument that this person is influenced because it’s an appointed board. I think that opens up the door to a lot of assertions about this board was appointed by this group of counsel, I made this decision. And so we really think he keeps us out of the mix in the staff. And it does really keep it beyond arm’s length in terms of a neutral party that refuses those
Unknown Speaker 45:51
individual words and individual was a part of those groups that there are professional area officers that you can contract with to they come in here. The cases are here, or whatever it is, we have to do an RFP, obviously get that done.
Unknown Speaker 46:09
And under the draft proposal, it’s envisioned to be a special counsel and an attorney, and a law firm. And
Unknown Speaker 46:17
you know, a lot a lot of these ideas came from Fort Collins, and I know they do RFP, and there’s firms and attorneys that specialize in ethics.
Unknown Speaker 46:27
If I see it, attending their
Unknown Speaker 46:33
seminars, and even though it wouldn’t be you know, they’re focused on attorney regulation, but they understand.
Unknown Speaker 46:42
And that’s where I hope
Unknown Speaker 46:44
so when we retain them, or would it be case by case because I don’t expect there’s going to be a whole lot of
Unknown Speaker 46:51
complaints. That is Special Counsel under the charter.
Unknown Speaker 46:57
Council would approve that contract. And then we just have them on an
Unknown Speaker 47:03
hourly basis.
Unknown Speaker 47:10
So I need, I need to have a few questions. It all came back to me now, as I was thinking about it, after reading a few questions, one, I think it stated that
Unknown Speaker 47:23
whatever the hearing officer come up with a will be presented during council meeting.
Unknown Speaker 47:30
I think that they want us to make that decision. Exactly. Yeah. If not, it’ll probably be a
Unknown Speaker 47:40
an email
Unknown Speaker 47:42
to that. And we didn’t, we can go over that. So
Unknown Speaker 47:47
as opposed to the hearing officer would make a recommendation,
Unknown Speaker 47:52
interpretation and recommendation for these matters, certainly for council members and for charter boards and commissions, the city council decision whether to adopt or modify the
Unknown Speaker 48:08
recommendation of the year.
Unknown Speaker 48:10
And that will be the email or would that be at a city council meeting? That’s what I was wondering. Okay. That’s what I was wondering. Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, I’m not sure if
Unknown Speaker 48:22
I mean, should it be public like that in the city council meeting? I know we are.
Unknown Speaker 48:29
Does it do its damage already, if it’s going to do damage, it’s going to do damage there to somebody. And then if there’s no proof, until we’ve had a hearing officer, I think what you’re trying to say, is all sudden you get you have damage done to your reputation before you even have any chance to prove otherwise. I think we get the information in the email. And then we go to the council, and then we all decide on what should happen and according to the last part of that of the Code of Ethics right page.
Unknown Speaker 49:05
But then there won’t be I think it will, I think we really need to think about this because there won’t be public if we’re going to do this in a public thing. There won’t be public hearing either.
Unknown Speaker 49:15
I mean, people invited public invited to be heard won’t be able to say anything. I don’t know. It’s just kind of tricky for me, as I’m thinking it as I was reading it, but did does the public need to have input it? Now? I don’t think they do. But we’re putting it out there. And I can only imagine all the emails we’re gonna get about it. I don’t know. I don’t know. I was just thinking about it. I just wanted to hear what everybody else thought about that. The hearing officer can get as much input as they need. They can call witnesses or whatever they need to do. So there’s no point in having public invited to be heard weigh in on it. Because it’s not a public process. It is a cow doesn’t process it.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
Council process. And I’m not asking for public invited to be heard on it. But what I was asking was,
Unknown Speaker 50:06
if we get all the if nobody has to vote on it,
Unknown Speaker 50:11
can we not vote on it on in a free session? Or does it have to be public? That’s what I’m asking. Because you know what I’m saying? It’s going to be out in the public in? I don’t I don’t know, I never been in a situation like this. I was just thinking about how that will play out with the public.
Unknown Speaker 50:31
We can take official notes and
Unknown Speaker 50:35
it has to be. Okay. So
Unknown Speaker 50:39
a
Unknown Speaker 50:41
hearing officer does have screening criteria. So, you know, as proposed, if it’s frivolous or groundless, it does morning for the hearing officer screens it out. If it’s unlikely to be proven by preponderance of the evidence, the person who’s the subject, that plate has integrity and wrongdoing and is committed to sufficient redress, these are all sort of off ramps to the written recommendation to city council, or the matter will as become a will become moot because the person who is the subject of the complaint is no longer a city official, or longer official prior to the conclusion of the investigation.
Unknown Speaker 51:28
It’s only if they advise if
Unknown Speaker 51:31
the advisory
Unknown Speaker 51:35
the hearing officer, from the hearing officer, the advice from the hearing officer is that they come to the conclusion that yes, there was improper behavior here or whatever, then city council needs to discuss it at a council meeting and make a motion to either follow the hearing officers advice or not, but also the
Unknown Speaker 52:00
the person that has been complained
Unknown Speaker 52:05
was that the complaint
Unknown Speaker 52:08
is subject to the complaint. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 52:11
gets to have a voice than a council.
Unknown Speaker 52:15
Just make sure I followed all the ethics in November of next year. Yeah, there you go.
Unknown Speaker 52:26
The blades okay.
Unknown Speaker 52:30
So does the hearing officer say, Yes, this complaint
Unknown Speaker 52:38
rises to the level of yours that complaint counsel
Unknown Speaker 52:43
have a hearing on this? Or does the hearing officer actually make a recommendation to guilty or not? I think it says that rises to the complaint. The hearing officer will not tell us we need to hear it. That’s their job. They have victory. And then they advise the results of that hearing. Yes, we think it rises to the level of
Unknown Speaker 53:09
hearing officer first and then to counsel. Right. What is it advice? And if I wasn’t hearing officer, I would make that recommendation? I will not recommend a penalty? No, I believe that.
Unknown Speaker 53:23
We have to and we don’t have there are not a lot of penalties at all.
Unknown Speaker 53:29
Which century is the most
Unknown Speaker 53:33
used one I would say the most valuable wise. But if it is something egregious that is a continuing thing. And you can say things like you may not commit any more executive sessions or it can’t be on boards or commissions.
Unknown Speaker 53:51
Whatever you really
Unknown Speaker 53:54
question in Eugene, were you thinking these fall under normal Cora rules?
Unknown Speaker 54:02
If we’re going to be specific here, it makes me wonder we should quantify on the web page form which clearly isn’t built yet that may be subject to public record.
Unknown Speaker 54:13
Requests
Unknown Speaker 54:17
mean I mean under normal?
Unknown Speaker 54:22
Yeah, because it will, it’ll be in email. So it will be a poor
Unknown Speaker 54:28
clarity for the counseling.
Unknown Speaker 54:31
Didn’t think she was gonna thank you.
Unknown Speaker 54:38
So although all the frivolous complaints can be recorded as well, or only ones that the hearing officer says rise in the local
Unknown Speaker 54:48
examination, everything that goes into this drop down box on the web, the complaint that is made on the web, because it’s all email, but that is the point of the type of requests.
Unknown Speaker 55:00
Last is that tried to leave out everything that would be frivolous?
Unknown Speaker 55:07
It’s no good. Do this left or right. You looked at me funny. Yeah. But that’s
Unknown Speaker 55:14
it has to be you choose one of these that are false.
Unknown Speaker 55:19
Is the last minute like a form of harassment?
Unknown Speaker 55:23
No.
Unknown Speaker 55:25
No. And that is why I put a link to the,
Unknown Speaker 55:31
to the ethical behavior.
Unknown Speaker 55:35
Yeah. Because that if if we that would go into rules and procedure, I think I don’t think there would be, it would just be this is what we expect of
Unknown Speaker 55:47
elected officials this advisory opinion.
Unknown Speaker 55:53
advisory opinions are easily based on hypotheticals.
Unknown Speaker 55:58
In this circumstance, would this be a
Unknown Speaker 56:02
conflict of interest?
Unknown Speaker 56:06
To me, that’s the drop down menu. So when somebody requests, so is that they’re requesting there to buy advisory opinion from the from what they want to complain about? In their hearing officers would say this is frivolous. It does not rise to the
Unknown Speaker 56:26
occasion. But there’s also improper improper influence for treatment. And if somebody to the point of be funny, they might say that is proper treatment.
Unknown Speaker 56:40
No, I think that would be more
Unknown Speaker 56:43
likely still be found.
Unknown Speaker 56:46
Yeah, but but
Unknown Speaker 56:50
the quarter? Yeah. Would you just answered the other way with it? It would that the complaint, once it goes in that it’s horrible, as opposed to ones that they would also get the day would also get the advice from the hearing officer? Do you want me to take out advisory? Okay.
Unknown Speaker 57:13
That’s if this sounds like it’s going to be Oh, no, I
Unknown Speaker 57:19
gland person? No, I just think it’s just the thing that it seems like only things that were founded should be allowed before I left.
Unknown Speaker 57:30
Because otherwise, it looks like, you know, if somebody wanted to make it their life’s mission.
Unknown Speaker 57:36
And we have some times over the years, members of the public that helped me to put it out as mission
Unknown Speaker 57:43
said.
Unknown Speaker 57:50
Suppression of information.
Unknown Speaker 57:54
Horrible is a real slippery slope.
Unknown Speaker 57:59
Going to social media, the advisory opinion is that this is under free speech and does not rise to the level.
Unknown Speaker 58:11
And we would keep staff out of that. We wouldn’t argue about it on council.
Unknown Speaker 58:20
Once that, once that message went out from a hearing officer, for me,
Unknown Speaker 58:28
I didn’t know.
Unknown Speaker 58:30
So as this might be, you know, Eugene can help clarify this as well. So I’m looking at type of request. So the is a type of request that we’re wanting from the city, or is it the type of complaint? Because it’s, you know, conflict of interests? That’s a complaint, improper influence or treatment. That’s complaint, quasi quasi judicial proceedings? That’s, that would be a complaint in relation to that.
Unknown Speaker 59:00
advisory opinion. So that are you requesting what the hearing officer had advisor on or what I guess, I’m looking at the other items, and those kinds of all lead to that the that one of a councilmember had made a violation on that. So did they make a violation on an advisory opinion? That’s a request. It’s a request for information. But I do see what Susie is saying because all of these are your listing out all the complaints or the the violations and except for that one, well, now that you said when I look at improper influence or treatment, from a residents point of view, if they feel they were treated improperly, or if they feel that
Unknown Speaker 59:55
can see improper influence needs to be stated differently. Improper
Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
or influence on a
Unknown Speaker 1:00:05
I guess what?
Unknown Speaker 1:00:08
These drop down requests were meant to track the rules of conduct this code.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:15
And there is a
Unknown Speaker 1:00:17
section on improper tree treatment.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:22
This
Unknown Speaker 1:00:25
so I’m not sure, improper treatment is. But I do know that I get accused of having conflicts of interest on a monthly or even sometimes I need the basis just based on my intellectual property record in my career.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:45
And so
Unknown Speaker 1:00:47
despite the fact that, as you know, Eugene, I’ve made full disclosure, and we’ve explained that multiple times, it keeps coming up just because it’s a convenient way for people that, you know, brag red herrings across accounts and procedures.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:03
And that’s what this is, is addressing. Can we redress it? If there’s a some thing that we didn’t see, that seems to be a kind of
Unknown Speaker 1:01:16
probably an isolated situation of somebody abusing this form, just to kind of rail against counsel and his policies or practices?
Unknown Speaker 1:01:29
Is it something that we really address if there if it became?
Unknown Speaker 1:01:35
No,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:37
I think we need to look at this different way.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:41
The way it is laid out, it goes to the hearing officer, it doesn’t come to us to make a decision about whether this free speech or that decision, from the hearing officer is this does not rise to the level of a complaint. They’re the ones that need to address the complaint. So not city council, not staff. And so that would stop them.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:17
Well, the question, the question, is the stuff off this form, when it reaches the hearing officer? Is that part of the public record? Or does it become a part of the public record? Only when the hearing officer delivers a recommendation?
Unknown Speaker 1:02:37
I think that if, if the if the advisory comment is that this does not rise to the level of a complaint, then there dips dead. We don’t even discuss it.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:53
Those are the the recommendations, the reservations that we’ve all been expressed.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:00
Because you it’s a moot point at that point. It’s like,
Unknown Speaker 1:03:05
Yeah, but you still have the expensive theory now.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:11
We don’t know what people are going to put on here. And I think that you don’t get me wrong, I actually support it. I just like, trying to think of all the possible abuses of this. Oh, yeah, we could go on forever.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:27
I don’t think that anyone is going to totally constantly constantly complain about something when
Unknown Speaker 1:03:42
Why should kita because they come to council. And our comment is just we have a place on our website for you to lodge a complaint. We are not going to discuss it up here now. Period and of center.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:00
Yeah, as long as we communicate that give enough notice of that new process. That’s very, very, very important. Yeah, yes. And,
Unknown Speaker 1:04:11
and yeah, has a way to say might be valid, go out to the website and lodge a complaint. But I do think we need to be very specific and explicit as to what we’re what information that we are asking on those dropdowns. So to make sure who is it addressing is what they’re talking about. You know what I’m saying? He’s very specific, because I think
Unknown Speaker 1:04:36
people can, a lot of times I know it’s, it’s down, people don’t read everything. They just notice as a place to complain. And they’re just gonna be Eeny meeny, miny, moe or Clint, you know what I’m saying? So let’s be very careful with how we word that so they know
Unknown Speaker 1:04:52
who they’re addressing it to why they are addressing it and what’s the process? So I think that’s very important.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
We are going over time over the lhsaa meetings. So.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:05
So
Unknown Speaker 1:05:07
really quick, really quick, I just so when people are putting this, you know, they’re writing up their complaint,
Unknown Speaker 1:05:16
perhaps we can say, you know, your complaint will go will go through if you have not tied the complaint to which rules of procedure or which code of ethics did they violate, and that it has to be a violation. That is what we have codified in language already. That’s good in with their complaint and what they experienced. So having those two tied together, they’re not tied together. That complaint is it won’t be processed. And that should be on the website above the good.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:49
Thank you. An explanation or vocabulary sometimes those terms? Yeah, okay. You can build a form or if you don’t, so that, yeah, for where you only have the choices you can.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:03
I think that makes that will be better. Yeah. And actually, thanks. I remember now, when we were looking at how to build a website, that is what they said, they can’t really do any more than this. Until they know if it’s gonna be a hearing officer, or whatnot.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:19
And we have just barely touched the surface. I mean, other than saying, the hearing officer, I don’t want staff and all right. So we haven’t been able to engage with this until we get Council direction you want me to say yes or no. In terms of time spent? Okay, so do we want a hearing officer versus a hearing board? Yes.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:42
Do we are we okay, with the drop down box way of being able to lodge a complaint with? I’m going to call it a preamble above it, explaining and maybe definitions of each complaint? What does this mean? So that they Okay, yeah. Is there anything else about the 10 day the hearing officer gives 10 days to the person notice that the complaint is lodged against to respond? And the reason why I’m saying today is this person could be on vacation, it could be during the Christmas holiday, it could be is that reasonable? Is that a reasonable timeframe? Can you request a an extension if they were like, vacation?
Unknown Speaker 1:07:31
That seems like, you know, that
Unknown Speaker 1:07:34
was really short? Yeah. I was wondering if it’s a reasonable amount of time. Okay. That’s what I want to know.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:42
30 days or 30 days. And I’m also wondering if there could be some to leave the midterm.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:48
If there’s already considered the frivolous from the hearing officer, if it could just be
Unknown Speaker 1:07:54
if it could be expunged? You know, like, I know, we’re talking about there should be open records, but it could say,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:02
you know, it could be confidential, because confidential, or
Unknown Speaker 1:08:11
you know, so many 20 outcomes.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:15
So because if you get your drop down menu, and you don’t have something that relates to your actual plane, where does that go? Because it just disappeared, I think they just need us to, you all doesn’t need us to say yes, going here. Yeah. And I’ll say this and that, and then we’ll come back with others.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:35
Yes, we need the groundwork. Where I get anxious is
Unknown Speaker 1:08:39
what we may want to go this this in this state law regulates? What is an open record and what is not. And so
Unknown Speaker 1:08:49
we can’t deviate from that. That’s the circle. And everything you have to do has to be within that circle, state law and open records. And all of that can be
Unknown Speaker 1:09:02
challenging, it’s got to be able to record because these are what these different the definitions of these complaints this one does make us and all of that will be communicated prior to before we even implemented.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:15
So this council wants to spend time now digging into this a little bit more.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:21
I think, yes.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:24
10% that you have to give us how much and how much of that 10% That’s taken.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:31
It’s just a few
Unknown Speaker 1:09:37
when I work with the IT department, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:45
Just don’t talk. Yeah, real
Unknown Speaker 1:09:49
word in the forums once you gene figured out the form, so it’s easy for us to work with.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:57
That that doesn’t take a lot of time.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:01
Okay okay I know we gotta move
Unknown Speaker 1:10:06
me to
Transcribed by https://otter.ai