Transportation Advisory Board – March 2023
Read along below:
Unknown Speaker 0:00
We’re going to start the transportation Advisory Board meeting. However, we do not have a quorum this evening. So we won’t be able to make any votes or motions. So first off, I need to see if everybody’s in agreement that we can continue to do an informational only meeting without voting and motions. Okay, can I still do roll call? Okay, we’ll still do roll roll call.
Unknown Speaker 0:26
Taylor Wicklund, here. David McInerney, President, Steve laner. Here.
Unknown Speaker 0:34
Okay, we’re going to move past number three, which was improvement. And since we can’t, we can do communications from staff. And then go to public comments. So Phil, once you go ahead.
Unknown Speaker 0:50
Yeah, good. Good evening, members of tob. This is I’m Phil Greenwald, transportation planning manager with the city. And we do. I’m trying to think of the different things that we need to chat about as far as communications from staff, but they’re all in our information items. So I think we’ll be good to chat there with you about some of those items. We really wanted to formalize them this this week or this month, because there was a lot more to them. With that being said, I’m trying to think if we’ve had any, we did have a council retreat this last weekend. And we did see Taylor there. So board member Wicklund, sorry, at that at that event. So thank you for joining us. And being part of that your comments were read into record. So we appreciate your comments that that a lot of good stuff at the council retreat, it was a lot of transportation materials. So you will be busy in the next year. If not, we like to say in 2023. But in the next year, you will be busy. And hopefully we can get some folks. Unfortunately, Patrick did submit his, his his resignation. And so Patrick’s No, no longer able to be part of this board he did, he is moving away from Walmart. So with that he can’t be part of the board anymore. And so he did submit his resignation. So we’re very sorry to see Patrick go, we’re going to start mid year recruitments, just like we do every year with this board. But this one will take on will a little bit more meeting as we believe we only had four people or five people before and now we’re down to four. So this is a seven member board. So anybody out there who’s interested in, in applying, please submit your name. As soon as you can into the portal, there’s a there’s an application portal that we’ve all put you through as T T or board members. So we appreciate you doing that. And we will request that more people join and be part of this board this important board. And we look forward to filling out the rest of the seats. In July. Hopefully, we do our recruitments. And that’s gonna be one of the things we talked about is the recruitments that we do for this. In fact, I’ll probably just I think it was something we’re going to talk about at the very end. But that’s something that we’ll we’ll have to start working toward in April, because we have basically April, May and June to get those done. And June is really when we have to submit to the city council. So that’s very important. So April will be a big sort of month we’ll be looking for people to sit on that. Probably a two member board, like we are two members of subcommittee like we had last time. So ask at least two of you, if you all three, one, or four want to be on that. That’s fine, too. Just, we’ll talk more about that in April. So thank you for your time on that. I believe that’s all we have from stuff.
Unknown Speaker 3:48
Okay, we’ll move on to public comments. And just to reiterate three minutes per it’s so great to see as many folks here that want to make comments like that. So with that, we’ll go ahead and start. Did you have any names that you wanted to start off on the list? Okay, Benjamin would be first. Thank you
Unknown Speaker 4:20
three minutes they’re like a timer okay.
Unknown Speaker 4:33
Okay, so I’m Benjamin grab Mayor live at 10 640 Baron circle and Firestone and I’d like to make a few comments today regarding your which was brought up in the last meeting regarding the regional Evie plan. And now we’re like, bring up some numbers. I think it’s not a good idea. Electric vehicles. Ultimately it’s up private vehicle to consider usually sits about maybe four to six people if you’re lucky. Definitely does not comply with the goal of the city and envision long line to reduce the number of vehicle miles traveled a lithium battery containing electric vehicle, you need to need the mind about 90,000 pounds of or per battery needs about 25 pounds of lithium, the 35 pounds of cobalt, which she could fit about, you know, 1000 smartphones worth of electricity in them you need 110 pounds of graphite for 90 pounds of copper and 400 pounds of steel just to get your your battery working. And to give you context for the mining aspect, lithium, brine brines is what you get the lithium from. And Brian contain pure, pure lithium, you know, there’s only like 10% of the actual brine itself. So you’re, you’re, you’re at a severe disadvantage. Same thing for cobalt, you’re only getting 10% of that. So you have to mine about 33,000 pounds for your, for your 30 pounds of cobalt to fit into that and battery. In all, you’d have to extract about 500,000 pounds of materials. Move all that. Over the battery life, you could average that out today consumes about five pounds of Earth versus the point two pounds and liquid oil equivalent requires so you’re you’re essentially making a battery that can fit only 101 barrel of oil. But you need 100 barrels of oil to do it. And in addition to that, you’re you’re having to transport all these materials by truck, which is 1,000% of the cost of moving pipeline 75% of oil and 100% of natural gas is moved via pipeline. And so you’re just going to be looking at these increased costs. Okay. And that’s what I have for today. A couple numbers to think about as you move forward. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 7:41
No, thank you, Benjamin.
Unknown Speaker 7:52
Unknown Speaker 7:57
my email said I had five minutes and that this was going to be with the City Council also so I’m going to have to cut my my speech a little short. Sure. Hello to the board members. My name is Lonnie DOOLEY I lived on I live in village Place Apartments 600 Kaufman Street. I’ve lived in historic Westside for over 20 years, I’ve watched the traffic increased steadily over time. The increase in events downtown has been a great addition to making Longmont unique. Unfortunately, it’s brought the expected increase in traffic and it’s come into our neighborhoods. With it the speeding cars and drivers who don’t pay attention. I spoke to neighbors who told me they always walked their kids to school just because they don’t feel safe to walk them themselves to have them walk themselves. I attended a downtown meeting a few months back to talk about what we can do to slow down traffic. It was agreed we have to change people’s mindsets about driving in Longmont have signs that say people walk in Longmont or whatever wording will catch people’s attention. Get on the offensive with our message. Don’t be on the defense saying there aren’t enough police. I understand that the police are short staffed I get it. But to me, it seems like they’ve just given up. I live in village Place Apartments right on Main Street on weekend nights now. And later in the year. It’ll be every night. We hear and see cars just going by so fast. You know they rev up at the Sixth Avenue or 6/6 Avenue light and then again come in the other way Long’s peak and they just fly. Every even every day traffic includes people who were speeding. I don’t understand why state traffic safety isn’t more priority to the police that we do have. We have an investment in this community and we deserve more than hearing we don’t have the personnel Most people I’ve spoken to in my neighborhood say it’s in general they don’t feel safe walking downtown. I feel that making downtown one way, each way is a good one lane each way is a good idea. It may again remind people they have to slow down. I also think speed bumps and neighborhoods are an effective way to catch people’s attention. taking people away from their phones and other devices and making them watch the road. Getting people to realize that driving a vehicle requires their full attention. It’s not a time to be multitasking. Decorated crosswalks can stand out such as Main Street and aid to catch people’s attention and remind them to slow down. We have many talented artistic people in our community, who may be happy to display their work while doing something to help the community. Neighbors in historic west side had been asking for crosswalks to be painted at the four corners of central Elementary School. They’d been put off with the reasons like checking the budget doing a study to determine if it was neat. When Tony was killed our neighbor Tony Umali, a neighbor was interviewed by CHANNEL NINE NEWS and within two weeks the crosswalks were painted. I understand that neighbors have been working with the city to add crosswalks and more safety measures on Third Avenue as part of the project to complete the work on third. Make it a blanket project get crosswalks painted all over town. Use the resources we have let people be reminded consistently if not constantly, if necessary to slow down in long run. I’m glad the Council adopted the Vision Zero initiative. It’s an admirable goal and great start. So let’s keep working on what we need in this town to make it safe. Can the neighborhoods do more for things for themselves? Can we help out? There’s many people citizens and parents who want to do what we can to make things safer in Longmont, they want the council to know they will back them up if they see things being done. Thank you for hearing me.
Unknown Speaker 12:18
And then I know we have two more we don’t have your names. Or I’m sorry, three, right? We have? Nope. Okay. If you could just give us your name and where you live? Sure.
Unknown Speaker 12:33
My name is Brian O’Brien. My wife and I live it three to one Gay Street. And I would like to basically wanted to say thank you to the city for making some improvements around the central Elementary School. We live on one of the south west corner of the school yard so we can see the playground and the front drive with the school. And as recently as this morning, watching the very busy when parents drop off in the morning, especially like today when the clocks changed on Sunday morning, everybody trying to be timely. And the problems still exist it you probably know that it’s not a school where people are bused in, all the children come either walking on a bike or a scooter or when their parents cars. So there is an awful lot of traffic in the morning. And the progress that’s been made is appreciated. We wanted to note that crosswalks did get repainted. There were some other safety improvements that were discussed. And if there’s any update on that, that would be great. Thank thank you for making progress on that project. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 14:15
And Phil, could we get maybe an update next week or I should say I’m sorry, the next meeting on on the Gay Street and any of the additional improvements and when they’re there or they’re on schedule?
Unknown Speaker 14:39
I’d have to follow up with our operations staff. We had met with several residents out several months ago and I know we had we had talked and gotten on the restriping some of the crosswalks I think some of the other walks were and some siding was supposed to be adjusted. Those are the only improvements I’m aware of in that area other than the 30 Have a new work that we’ll be showing you shortly. But we’ll we’ll double check. I think my last drive through there we wanted one of the mid block crosswalks touched up. And I don’t know that ever happened, I think some of the signing, we’re also changing one of the school zones to make it longer. So I’d have to see where our operations group is with that, but I can provide we will certainly provide an update to the next meeting.
Unknown Speaker 15:25
And also, as a follow up for the other comments for Lonnie, if we could look into I know Vision Zero, we’ve talked about road diets and some of the things that can be done. Maybe what we could do is just make a note to see what we’re addressing on Main Street in regards to the plan. Because obviously, that’s an important thoroughfare that was the I guess that was my timer. Right. And then Benjamin’s comments on Evie is well put, and we understand that and there is a balance. I know that we’ve had a conversation about Vision Zero or the the plan as it relates to that. So that’s all I can add in regards to that. Welcome councilmember Yarborough?
Unknown Speaker 16:19
Well, we’re on we’re on zero or we don’t have a quorum tonight. So we’re informational. Yeah. So so no voting. All right. No other public comments, I think we’ll jump to the information items. And of course, as we said, they’re just information items, we won’t be making any votes.
Unknown Speaker 16:41
Great, good evening, again for Greenville. Just wanted to go through your packet, you did mention last time that you wanted to see an update to the to the work plan. So that is a very quick item where we’re just showing you that we didn’t take your suggestions into into the from the record into the actual work plans on the basically, third the last page of your packet, I can show that here’s.
Unknown Speaker 17:25
So you’ll see the two highlights where we made the changes to the your requested changes to that work plan, I just want to make sure you’re aware of that. So it didn’t go unchecked. I think if it’s okay with the chair, I will skip over division zero real quick. Before we could do the Third Avenue because the Third Avenue is more of a work plan. We’re gonna go to the back tables that actually stand around.
Unknown Speaker 17:53
Okay. So we’re gonna put Third Avenue at the end, if that’s okay with the chair.
Unknown Speaker 18:02
Okay. Yeah, that’s fine.
Unknown Speaker 18:05
So just to chat a little bit about Vision Zero, we do have a resolution, we’re getting ready to go to city council, we want to make sure it’s tight tightened up before it does go to council. So one item is that we’d like to bring it to you first. So we’d like to bring that to your April meeting, and make sure it works for you. And then we’ll basically be going the next day to city council with it. So it can be a little tight. But we would like to take whatever recommendations you have to the city council at that same time, and just make sure they’re aware of any conditions or concerns you might have. Or if you want to recommend that they approve it as is. That’s a possibility as well. But we want to just make sure that we’re at that level when we go. So that’ll be your April meeting where we do that. Again, it’s it’s in pretty good shape, but we need another we need we need some time to work with it. Because it’s it’s pretty integrated right now with everything that vision zero does. And we really want to make it city of Walmart’s Vision Zero. So Vision Zero has not been adopted by any City Council action as of yet. They just did give us the go ahead to start working on this resolution. And that will talk about an action plan as far as Vision Zero goes. So just to give you a heads up there, and then we’ll move on to the Are there any questions with that?
Unknown Speaker 19:40
We’ll move on to the 2024 budget discussion. That’s that last page in your packet that we sent out day after the packet went out an alternative to gym extent.
Unknown Speaker 19:56
So what does Sup here. Thank you, Phil, what we’ve provided is is the list of projects that we are or have been working on or looking to fund in future years. They’re they’re comprised, we broke them down into several categories. One is asset management. One is the kind of the leveraged funding projects leveraged funding, meaning we’ve gotten grants for those projects, which has helped to basically stretch our city match dollars, and then some safety capacity and alternative modes. projects. One, one of the challenges we’re facing this year, is that with the over the last, I’m gonna say year and a half, we face some severe challenges in terms of increasing costs for most of our projects. And most of those projects are most of the more complicated ones. And we’ve seen it across the boards, not just streets, but we’ve had an expansion of the water plant and planned and that has the cost of that has nearly doubled from our original estimates. So currently working on the project that’s tied to the resilient St. Vereen project, that project is Boston Avenue Bridge, that project came in at a little over $12 million. And we have about $8 million in the budget right now. So we’re looking to how are we going to fund that we’ve got some priorities that are already been approved by council that we’re looking at railroad quiet zones as an example, that was approved by council several years ago and given us the direction to move forward. That is one of the leveraged funding projects wherein we got basically almost 50% of the then budget in a grant from fra. So we got $4 million for an $8 million project that’s now looking more along the lines of a $10 million project. So what we’re looking at in some in terms of some more budgeting is some of these projects will stretch out longer. quiet zones was one that was broken into components. And we were able to spread it out over several years, in part because a majority of the work is being done by BNSF, the rail line that owns the railroad. And spreading that out, we couldn’t do all 17 crossings in one summer, so to speak, we don’t have the capacity, nor do they. So we just wanted to go through some of these kind of some of the projects so you understand kind of what the critical nature of some of these are TR p 001. The only real good news I can I can express to everybody is that we bid out this year’s payment rehab contract, or contracts which is comprised of basically our asphalt rehab where we we repave roads, our concrete rehab. And then we also do a chip seal program where which will extend the life of of asphalt. All three of those bids came in contract separate separate bid items came in within budget is the only good news I can can offer up most of our other projects are over. So we’ve got a couple of projects and as I said, we’re looking at these this is over when we look at a budget over a five year period. Example will be TRP 114, which is the bow and left hand Creek Bridge. We have two bridges in our inventory that are starting to see wear and tear effects long term. So we’re starting to program those in the tarp 119 which is the Third Avenue westbound we’ve been looking to get that into the budget to to basically rehab the deck. We’ve done a number of repairs on it but it is reaching the the tail end of its useful life. The fortunate good news is there seems to be within the infrastructure bills, some some dollars programmed in for bridges, we’re waiting for that to be released. So we can at least apply for for bridge grants. So as we look at these and start programming them in long term, we start looking at the ability to leverage our dollars as well. Some of the other projects TRP 011. That is our what we call our transportation system management kind of list of projects. So we throw a lot of projects in there. Several of those that includes some of our smaller scale safety projects we throw money that’s where we for take up for any new traffic signals. We’ve got two projects in there that have leveraged dollars and it looks like some of the County Line Road portion of that is going to be funded significantly with with leverage dollars so the city’s vouchers smaller. So, you know, going over some of the more critical projects that the city manager’s office is indicated we will fund Kaufman street busway improvements, which is tied to our first and main improvements. That one is its top of the list. It really indicated railroad quiet zones is at the top of the list. So as we prepare and plan that budget, we’re going to be in working towards some of those priority projects, making sure we have adequate funding, that’s going to push some other things out and list them as either unfunded or push them out in future years.
Unknown Speaker 25:36
Jim, quick question, in regards to the price increases, are you seeing that as a long term, is it a short term thing? Because obviously, we’re building budgets that sometimes go three to five years? So is this something that you’re going to have to plan for in subsequent budget years?
Unknown Speaker 25:51
I’m gonna say yes, I don’t know that we’ve got models that go out five years for that, but we’ll look at the first initial two years, and hope that prices either flattened out or in some cases will drop. You know, we haven’t seen necessarily that that in the supply chain kind of issues. You know, we’re facing it, we’re not the only I guess, public versus not the only entity LPC seeing it cost increases, as well, as they’re still seeing delays and getting some of their transformers and supplies. year, two years out. We’re also seeing in some cases, some of our development applications are starting to slow down. So the higher interest rates are affecting the ability for developers to get money. So we’re seeing a little bit of that, I’m going to say we’re looking at it, we’ll look at it, you know, we budget every year we do our budget process every year, we’ll adjust accordingly. And 2024 When we budget for 2025, I’m going to assume at least two years of this is what I would say based on my experience with this type of market change.
Unknown Speaker 27:11
Are you seeing increases in material and material? Materials?
Unknown Speaker 27:26
That’s a really great question. We’re seeing it in materials, certainly, scarcity materials, we’re also seeing it in labor costs. Lease particularly on the front range. You know, what I always say is you you drive up and down the front range, you’ll see development everywhere. So labor is a challenge getting some of our consultants to provide or hit our goals for for providing, you know, 6090 100% plans seem to get stretched out they’re extremely busy. So labor has been a challenge it’s been reflected across the board on you know, anywhere in the city, we’ve had we have trouble filling positions, particularly at the at the mid management and higher levels. Some of the we can we can fill engineering positions for kids coming out of college or two or three years experience, but mid level and up is very difficult. And we’re seeing that in the labor trades as well. And that’s part of the challenge is is that when we bid out a project consultants or contractors just really aren’t hungry that they’re going to try to lower their prices to get a project they’ve got lots of work everywhere along the front range.
Unknown Speaker 28:57
So just the I guess touching real quick on the last topic, the safety capacity, you know, alternative modes project. Some of these projects as we go will will see their budgets reduced some dollars shift around some projects we’re trying to fund we’ve got other than the street fund, we do have some money coming in on some of our trail projects from other areas. Example would be the spring Gulch number two project that really actually isn’t listed here because we’re it’s already in the existing budget and we’re working to get that trail completed dollars from that are coming in, not just from from streets, but also from other areas of we’ve got some park dollars, because it isn’t running through open space as well. So we look to leverage our dollars, not just for the outside money but within interior as well. There’s also some of the Hoover street improvements maybe the Nelson road and Hoover street intersections. We’re looking to fund with the transportation Community Investment fee fund, which is used for capacity that is money that developers put into a fund that goes to capacities or capacity improvements. So where we have those, we’re looking to use those dollars on some of these projects, so we’ll we will see some of them funded. But it’s going to be a very tight budget year, so.
Unknown Speaker 30:23
So with that, we just wanted to go ahead.
Unknown Speaker 30:28
So, Jim, especially in the context, that Vision Zero is going to happen, I trust Council will pass the resolution. And then we’ll work on an action plan. And a lot of vision zeroes about, you know, narrowing lanes, and, and these projects, there’s quite a few, at least when I read the descriptions, there’s a lot of, you know, add another lane, even the Nelson one, I’d read Adaline or add a width for a bike lane. But then on division zero, you’re, I’m looking at speed control, separation, you know, a cyclist on a 35 mile an hour road, that probably traditionally goes 40 on don’t want them to get hit. So I’m just wondering, can we also maybe get rid of some of these projects, at least lessen them to a degree especially like the over widening, Nelson widening. I know that doesn’t love the intersection. But at least maybe we could think of alternative ways and an extremely focused on our multimodal plan to really get people on a different path than a two ton car that can hit people. So.
Unknown Speaker 31:44
So what I’ll note is, well, while we do a lot of talking about Vision Zero, okay, so Vision Zero is, is we’re not going to accomplish that in a year or two years, we’re gonna put a goal in of several years out. So we need to take take a long term approach long term thinking. And currently within the I think the existing budget, we’re gonna see about 60 to $80 million of unfunded projects. Some of these projects will slide into that and, and may never resurface again. So as part of looking at Vision Zero, as Phil takes on a transportation, what do we call it mobility plan? Those are items, we’ll we’ll we’ll be looking at a lot harder. I know that council has made indications of pushing more multimodal thought processes. So I think there’s there’s a, I guess the best I could come up with, yeah, maybe an answer. If some of these projects dropping off. We would see that and what I what I also want to just remind everybody, these are the capital projects, we look at, look at a lot of most of what you’re going to see with vision, zero of the least the planning components are going to come out of the operating budget. And that is that is a separate budget, separate kind of certain degree budget process. Where we look at, that’s where we maintain our signals. Some of our smaller scale safety projects are funded out of there are concrete rehab, where we would do small scale safety improvements of like curb extensions, comes out of our our some of that operating dollars. So I would say, you know, we’re this is the first time I think we’ve we’ve brought tab in early on in the budget process. So I think those are discussions we can have as we move through the process.
Unknown Speaker 33:38
Okay. Yeah, well, yeah, I just remember the Vision Zero study session of city manager saying, you know, mediately, we need to start looking at projects and maybe the where we plan on widening roads, maybe we need to narrow the roads. And then I advocate is thinking about other other modes of travel, including media, like for over for the future VRT. And like, Well, why not protected busline to fully separate and speed up alternative modes of travel.
Unknown Speaker 34:18
Thanks for your comments. The reason for this to be on your agenda tonight is really for more just any more discussions of we would just open it up. If these projects look like you know, if they look acceptable, these are the well these are the projects that we’re putting into the budget. But we’d like to hear some conversation about it. And I think the Vision Zero piece is exactly what we’re looking for as far as how do we because really what’s going to happen and then I was gonna mention this at the end is we’re gonna have this transportation mobility plan and Vision Zero going parallel tracks. And they’re gonna feather into each other at the end of each. So those will have to come together and be part of the solution for all the things that you were talking about. I remember. So those are the kinds of things we’re looking for is this idea about widening roads, I think City Council’s heard a lot about that those discussions and where we are with, if you look at certain projects that have been done recently, like Ninth Avenue West of Main Street, aggressive Coffman, that’s where we had an operation project operational project that went back in and restriped that differently, and provided a buffered bike lane, where there was none before and a center turn lane where there was none before. So safety, for almost all modes is really our key here, and then maintaining the existing system so that we don’t fall into disrepair and have a very expensive project. In the medium term, midterm future, you’ll see the same kind of project on Mountain View, we did that as well, parking was removed in some instances on street parking, much to the chagrin of some of the neighbors. But I think now, there’s an understanding that that’s a safer, safer condition overall. So again, safety, taking care of the road, and then Safety for All modes as well. So there’s some other things we’d like to talk to you about as far as getting people out of their vehicles in the long term in the long run, that’s a future discussion item will probably have, as we get further into the year, as far as what we’re, I’m excited about is micro transit. So we’re gonna see how we do as far as going for some federal dollars there. And we should be able to let you know more about that in about two months. So those are the things that we’re working on both going over these projects would be we just want to make sure there’s either kind of head nodding, or are we missing something here? Just to get your general sense of kind of where we’re are we on the right track?
Unknown Speaker 36:51
As a follow up to a board member, Wicklund comments. Phil, I know you and Jim have been through a lot of these budget cycles and planning cycles. My question is, how long does it take? For a concept like Vision Zero, or micro transit to go from an idea to actually showing up as projects on a list like the one we’re looking at tonight, we talk would you say three years, four years?
Unknown Speaker 37:25
think the answer is it depends. Typically, when it’s a capital project. If it’s a smaller capital project, it’s more of a three year timeframe. But most of the things that I’m working with, and more of a long term transportation planning role is the bigger projects. And those are at least five years to in discussion, and usually more. So. But five years is kind of that threshold, with micro transit, that’s an idea about getting money. Most likely grant dollars to help us start that program up a startup, and then working with RTD and partnerships. So there’s a lot of different folks to work with on that. That’s a public private partnership model. So there’s a lot of folks to work with in that. But it can go fairly fast if everybody can kind of come on board, but it really requires chasing the money. That’s going to take I mean, we’ve, I’ve been doing this for about a year and a half now. So that’s where we are. And we’re hoping to have more news, like I said, by the end of the spring, early, well, probably more like early summer. So that’ll tell us if we have money if we don’t, it’s kind of where do we go to the next pot of money to chase? So it depends. Sorry,
Unknown Speaker 38:46
just real quick, excuse me. In regards to the projects that we have on the list here, I get it’s a balancing act, we have to take care of some things on an immediate level. And so Vision Zero from what I understand is almost philosophical or it’s an umbrella with which we would operate in terms of design design principles for the things that we’re doing going forward. So with that being said, and kind of tie in with with what I was gonna say council member, but board member McInerney, good luck on you, right. Was was going to say is is, you know, with that idea of Vision Zero being a design principle. Do you suspect that residents are going to see a change to some of this? Because we’ve already had some comments tonight about in support of Vision Zero. And I’d like to know that we’re really progressing there that folks are going to see that. So that was long winded, but Well, I
Unknown Speaker 39:44
I don’t want to categorize Vision Zero as a as a as a design. Kind of solution through design so to speak. Vision Zero is is that is one component of it. It is all So one of the other components is a is a rather obviously detailed involve rather large public engagement process, where you bring the stakeholders together as part of not just the you start with the creation of the action plan that brings those stakeholders together, okay to create the action plan, and then after Once the plan is, is basically created and then implemented, you begin to implement it, then you still have that engagement across across the board. And there’s a number of other things in regards to equity in regards to kind of some of the options you can do in regards to speed limits. And but infrastructure improvements are only one, one small part of it. And, you know, part of from the city’s perspective, you know, getting to zero deaths is going to be very challenging. Okay, we will probably have better success in limiting or reducing some of the more not fatal crashes, but but the higher injury crashes. The challenge in regards to zero deaths is that most of those deaths happen on the arterial roads with higher speeds. So that that’s something we’ll we’ll have to see. And there’s not some of those areas. Some of the fatalities, we had our our on state roadways out of our control. So it’d be challenging, but I think those are the things that’s part of what we have to bring everybody together to discuss as part of the action plan, as we start correct crafting that over the next year.
Unknown Speaker 41:41
And as we spoke with the Council at the retreat, on Saturday, we, we should aspire to zero deaths on our roadways, whether they’re state or local, or whatever. But that’s our aspirational goal is to meet that 00 death. So we don’t want to say we’re trying to get to a number, the number is zero, because every one of those is, is Apple as a person. So that’s, that’s the kind of goals of Vision Zero.
Unknown Speaker 42:17
I totally understand that. Because Vision Zero, you know, started in Sweden, and they’re still working on it. 30 years later. It just took us 30 years to get it over over here. But I would I would disagree that because I like to quote, unfortunately, don’t have his name, Boston professor, but just five principles of vision, zero, speed control, separation, functional harmony, so meaning road should not or should avoid multiple functions, predictability, simplicity, forgiving us restrictiveness. So when you make a mistake, it’s not deadly. State awareness. So So I would, I would argue that it’s very much a design issue, not just enforcement and educating the public. It’s all that as well. But then it’s also how we, how we build things and maybe how we perfect our road diets to a achieve separation for all users, but then also to maybe slow speeds and get drivers to pay attention. So.
Unknown Speaker 43:29
We appreciate your comments. And thank you very much. We’ll take those into consideration as we move forward in this next budget cycle. So I appreciate your time on that. The last thing we have, if that’s all for this budget item is more of a work plan and it can invite all the public as well to kind of go around the table in the back. We’re going to roll on roll this roll plot. Go ahead.
Unknown Speaker 43:56
Just a follow up on the coffin St. So that will be fully funded as what I heard.
Unknown Speaker 44:05
That has been our direction that we anticipate funding that project. So we are looking currently we were at at 90% plans I believe we’re working through some property acquisition, some easements, it is because it is a leverage project leverage with federal funding, we have to go through the federal process so it takes a little longer to procure the easements through the federal process. So we’ve put that into schedule anticipating that we will be going out to bid November December of this year. Ordering in January of next year. And then getting started in March April the spring. The currently we are getting ready for that. There is currently a water line project that we are wrapping up that will get the water line out of the way of the any of the other improvements so that project is actually beginning So you will see construction activity on coffin this summer. But coffin is one of the projects that we have indicated will be funded. And we are looking currently, as we go into the next budget cycle of providing a pretty hefty contingency within the budget anticipating if costs continue to go up, we will have it covered, we won’t have to be kind of doing an exercise of trying to find dollars in the budget. So we’re looking to like a 20% increase in as well as other contingencies. So we will be be looking at that we anticipating increases as we budget for next year.
Unknown Speaker 45:36
And then I guess this might be for Phil, is, you know, this is more like looking at the future. You know, let’s dream about the future. And after Kaufman, because it will be you know, our first priority bus lanes protected cycleway. But also people have to get there to use those facilities. So what’s what’s the dream to connect it? In the future?
Unknown Speaker 46:07
Great question and a lot of dreaming going on. So the the goal is to get people to this station. Micro transit is one part of that goal. It’s basically a vision of, of five smaller vans, that would just kind of trek around town, the goal of that program of micro transit is stated as less than a 15 minute wait, after you make a call or or, or whether you’re calling whether you’re using your phone, however you’re doing it. And we’re trying to bring a lot of equity into this. So it’s not you don’t need to necessarily. I mean, it’s gonna be a multi language phone call that you can, I mean, you’ll have a translator on the other end, that can speak a variety of languages. So we’re trying to make it so it’s all inclusive, and make sure that it’s very equitable. Anybody can use it a call in within 15 minutes, you’ll have a place to catch the ride, it may not be in front of your house like an Uber or Lyft. But it may be two blocks away one or two blocks away. So you’ll meet up with maybe one or two other people who would also share that ride with you. So like a bus still. And so within 15 minutes, you would catch the shuttle and 15 minutes you would be at your destination. So less than 30 minute trip total for anybody in the city, using that system. So that’s the vision. We’ll see. You know, that’s the that’s the scope we’ll put out there for folks as we bid out this project, just like we bid out a construction project. The other pieces we’re working with, and we’re working with folks in the whole northwest region that includes that’s the Northwest Denver area region, we’re working on and getting expanding the B cycle, electric bicycle B cycle bike share system in Boulder to be county wide. And maybe even in two parts of Westminster and Broomfield county or Westminster’s in Adams County. Broomfield, Broomfield County, so we’re trying to incorporate and expand that system so that we could have electric bikes that would help make those those connections as well. And then we’ll have the RTD bus system. Still, on top of that, we’re thinking Micromobility may be able to offset a lot of that. So bring RTD in as a partner to help fund the Micromobility model. So again, a lot of dreams going on. But this is all hopped up first and main. And the other piece of it is to start talking about Kaufman street being this bus corridor. And you’ve heard some from somebody who lives along that corridor, but also as as the other portion of corridors on Main Street. So we’re looking at working with the Ltda, the lung Longmont Downtown Development Authority to figure out what to do with Main Street next, and there’s a lot of excitement. You know, unfortunately, it was driven by COVID. But there’s a lot of excitement when we narrowed that down to one lane in each direction. So there’s a thought of how do you make that more of a permanent, slowing traffic and changing the lanes into bicycle facilities? Or do you expand the sidewalk? Some would argue that there’s enough sidewalk on Main Street right now to handle the pedestrian load. But I think if you go out there on any given evening, especially as we’re getting the longer hours and if you go out there on a weekend, you’ll see a lot of pedestrian traffic using Main Street. as uncomfortable as it is I think people are drawn to that area. And it’s just the center of Longmont. So all these things play into each other. We’ll still be driving we’re not trying to get people to abandon their cars necessarily, but if if we can offer that that goes into some of the affordable housing and attainable housing aspects, that takes a large costs load off of people trying to afford housing in Longmont. So it all plays into each other. And it’s all working together. So I’m getting on my soapbox now. So I’ll leave that and let you speak.
Unknown Speaker 50:08
Just one follow up, Phil is. So then also what about like local cyclists get into the facility instead of using the B cycle? And then and then just to tie in another question is maintenance, because I remember one of the bike Issues Committee, like when there is the pike Road, bollards placed in as an experiment, one of the complaints was, you know, rock and gravel can be swept. So are we planning to expand our maintenance equipment to even take care of these facilities?
Unknown Speaker 50:39
A great question, what we’re doing is we’re working with our maintenance group as we bring these projects forward, and making sure they’re fully involved in the project so that they understand what we’re looking to construct. And we’re meeting their needs for what kind of equipment they have, or what kind of equipment they can get to make this to make it work better than what we did on pike Road, which was to quickly install some bollards as a test. And we quickly learned from our maintenance crews that it was too narrow, and it didn’t, it didn’t work. It was really trying to squeeze something into into that shoehorn it in that wasn’t meant to be shoehorned in that way with the existing travel lanes. And the other part of your question was how to get there on a bicycle if you’re not a bicycle.
Unknown Speaker 51:27
So I’m just thinking of like the future of, you know, this is our first protected bike lane. Hopefully, it’s not our last, so right and start planning for the next one.
Unknown Speaker 51:37
And that’ll connect directly to the st brain Greenway. On the south. So it’ll have a direct connection, it’ll actually be a great connection from St. Frank Greenway. North into downtown on Kauffman Street for bicycles and walkers and people using other wheeled devices. So it should be, it should be very multimodal. And as you get into the stationary at first and main, first in Kauffman, between Boston and first there, the idea is that’s got some parking involved with it, it’s gonna have bicycle parking bicycle lockers. So you should have a secure place to park your vehicle and your vehicle, your bicycle vehicle, and your and your automobile. So and then there’ll be obviously, lots of loading and unloading opportunities there too. So for accessing ride opportunities, carpooling opportunities, those kinds of things. That’ll be accommodated, as well. So we’re really trying to connect it and it will be dynamic and that it can grow. And if it’s not done, right, on opening day, we can we can, we can adapt to other conditions and other transportation modes we don’t even understand right now. So
Unknown Speaker 52:50
I guess before we do this session in the back, do we want to allow make a change in state so you can correct me to let the rest of the public make comments and then move to that? Or should we wait till we’ve gone through that and then have public make comments? I mean, for what, what are you thinking how long it’s going to take for us to do the session up there?
Unknown Speaker 53:16
20 minutes, 30 minutes. Okay. Well, I just figured he can reconvene. With that now, and then reconvene after that. Yeah. Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 53:26
just didn’t know we had more public show up. So
Unknown Speaker 53:29
it’s up to you, if you’d like to just invite anybody who hasn’t spoken and who might not want to be part of the Third Avenue, work, work, study, hear that? may want to just let them speak and then be able to leave if they’d like. Yeah. And they’re certainly welcome. If you if you allow it to be part of that works. Study in the back. Yeah, that’s fine.
Unknown Speaker 53:50
So if anybody in the public would like to come up and speak, we would open up the dais for you if you don’t want to be part of the Third Street budget conversation. If not, you can stick around
Unknown Speaker 54:15
Okay, no, that’s fine. We’ll go ahead and do the Third Street budget conversation. So I’m sorry, do we have a taker? Yeah, maybe. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 54:42
Okay, hi, my name is Martha Goble. I am from Gay Street, the 700 block of gay and we were just a couple of us came today to just learn a little bit more about what the traffic mitigation and speed mitigation would be happening for the Gay Street Long’s peak area. There’s been many accidents at that intersection. It’s just a two way people kind of use Gay Street as a thoroughfare because it does go from 66 down to price. And I just sorry, I haven’t done public speaking much. But we just wanted to know, I know that there’s been some plans. I know one of our neighbors has been speak speaking with Phil, I believe Haley, Tripp fire, about some of the we have emails about what was going to be going on with Gay Street and what the plans were for Gay Street and launch peak area. There were a couple of different things for slowing down traffic. And I wasn’t sure if that was in the budget, or if that was in the plans. I think it was a phase one. So they weren’t going to do I want to step off and let Ed speak.
Unknown Speaker 56:21
I don’t know if I’ll do anything better. I think specifically, our concerns were, it seemed like there was going to be a dramatic change to, you know, the, the infrastructure on our street, getting rid of parking on the east side of the street, which I read was, anecdotally there’s not a parking problem on Gay Street. Well, if you’ve ever been near our street, on any day that there’s anything going on at the park, or God forbid, there’s a parade, it’s mayhem. I mean, it feels unsafe, and people still block my driveway. I mean, there’s I mean, they’ve not encroach on it, but blocked the driveway. I know, that’s probably, what, 510 times a year, but if you live there, it’s not to be completely, you know, discounted. It feels kind of crazy on those days. Um, I really, I was also curious, because we were, you know, 19 foot, we were looking at some of the plans, and I’m like, how much of my front lot yard is going towards this plan? So that was just something I, you know, wanted to check in on see if there was any discussion of that tonight. But then, um, no, please be aware that we and our neighbors are very interested and very aware and will be paying attention and hopefully, you know, be able to be a sounding board for the people that live there, you know. Thank you for your time.
Unknown Speaker 57:47
Thank you for that.
Unknown Speaker 57:57
Anyone else? If not, we can go, I think to the back and yes, Jim.
Unknown Speaker 58:02
So one of the previous Tamizh, we were asked to bring back and provide you information on Third Avenue. So that is our intention tonight. This is kind of a precursor to a public meeting, that we will be held kind of on April, April 6. So to move things along, you know, we’ll accept questions, comments from the board. But there will be an opportunity for the general public to offer up those comments at the April 6 meeting. And those invites should be going out by the end of this week. We are finalizing the list in the letter as we kind of in the next coming days. So we will get those mailed out. So be happy to answer any questions. But I don’t want to get again get into a lot of conversation with the public where we’re going to unveil this again. This is a plan that is in its final stages. So there are a couple opportunities to tweak a few things. But generally, this is a kind of a low cost measure we can do. One of the things you will not see on this plan is any bike lanes to install bike lanes would require wholescale removal of parking and a number of areas and widening of the road. And we are that was never our intention. So I will be happy to show you kind of the graphic we have. This will be very similar graphic to what we’re going to show on April 6 as well. This is a second of a public meeting a series of public meetings where we heard a number of issues with the public that that asked us for a few things, a number of things. And that’s really kind of our intention is to get back back to the unveil kind of where we’re taking the corridor to show how we can we can control kind of that speed. It is for the most quarter 25 miles per hour. So we’re going to be doing a number of kind of nine on invasive improvements, some traffic control with stop signs, crossing marks, markings, some more flashing radars, that is really what we’re, we’re going to be showing here narrowing lanes down to nine and a half to 10 foot lanes to kind of help to slow, slow traffic down. So that’s what we’ll show you,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:21
Phil, I’m sorry, I just wanted to ask on the Gay Street, if we could also I know we talked about the near the elementary school with the crosswalks. But also look at some of the comments a little farther south on there, maybe just a discussion item on Gay Street next meeting and the meeting after because it sounds like we might have two things that we at least have to be aware of.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:42
Right. And just a quick little follow up on Gay Street. Based on the last comment that was just made. A lot of those design pieces are those really preliminary design, it’s not even design, it was just, it was just what could happen. What could fit was part of the enhanced multi use corridor planning or iimak planning that was done a number of years ago. And we’ve since learned through through a lot of trial and error and trying to get this just done it right and within a budget is we probably aren’t going to be able to move curbs as much as consultants who who did that project thought we could move curbs and we just don’t as you’ve heard, throughout this discussion, the resources are not there to do those kinds of larger elemental changes that we we just don’t have the resources to do that. So we’ve been trying to work within the curb line. So people who are concerned about a plan that they saw called enhance multi use corridor planning, and they saw their their street widened, and they saw portions of their, you know, their their tree lawn taken away. That’s not going to happen with what we’ve got going as far as any kind of budget we have right now. And the other piece of it is we’re going to take the MCC plan, and it’s going to get absorbed into the transportation mobility plan that we’ve got planned for later this year. So we will incorporate that into the TMP and we will make those modifications based on what we’ve heard from the public and this isn’t the first time we’ve heard these concerns. So we appreciate that the people are coming out and talking about these things because it’s giving us a clear direction forward. Thank you. And I was gonna say to for this Third Avenue peace I’m concerned because Lama Lama Pope public media is in the house and they probably like to be able to see what’s going on. So I’m going to bring the mic with us so they can hear us and it would be great if we could I’m not sure which maybe this front table here would be the best place and if we can kind of maybe go behind and let lpm see what we’re doing. So we can keep this as a public meeting that’s actually useful for people as they rewatch it
Unknown Speaker 1:02:59
Unknown Speaker 1:03:03
Okay, so we’re gonna have we’re gonna have to do some table extension maybe but I’m trying to figure out where else we could do this. But maybe it’s worth a short recess as we move tables into position
Unknown Speaker 1:03:14
okay, we’ll take a short recess to get some tables in position.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:57
Great, okay, I’m hoping this works great. So we are gonna have to do this in the back of the room we apologize to people watching later on for this discussion, but we are going to try to get all the verbal pieces of this we can.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:31
April 6 Meeting
Unknown Speaker 1:04:32
April 6 Meeting okay.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:59
We thought this Just gonna be more interactive. And so we kind of see what’s going on. So what we’ve done is we’ve unrolled the plot. We wanted to do this, we’ll do that on PowerPoint on April 6, you’ll get another view of this, this is the last time you’ll see this will take you through the entire process as well. So I’m gonna let Jim kind of walk through the plan here and give him the mic.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:28
I get to talk here. All right. I guess is the thing I want I guess I gotta really talk close. All right. So um, to my left, your right, looking at this main street is on this side. So we’re looking, I’m going to start talking about the improvements moving from east to west. So we are this is one of the final drafts we are still looking at some minor Lane adjustments in and around Third Avenue and Kaufman. It is a signalized intersection in conjunction with the Kauffman widening project. We’re looking at at some Lane Lane adjustment there. As we start to move towards Pratt, we are looking at adjustments to the narrowing up the crosswalks providing a basically a crosswalk markings were necking down the roadway. Thank you, Phil. We’re providing a safe haven. There’s going to be what gets lost in here is there is a curb extension on the south side. So we’ll provide that then we’re going to be putting in our normal crosswalks and crosswalk signage on both sides, both both sides of Pratt Street. One of the analysis we did over the last year was doing some counts and measuring pedestrians and we found that pedestrians were using both sides of the of the roadway for crossing, not just pushing to one side so we felt that we needed to continue that. So providing those ability to cross but narrowing up the the exposed area where a pedestrian would be crossing on the roadway. providing some markings on the road indicate that there is a crosswalk there as well as the crosswalk markings continuing to go towards the west. We are proposing some additional striping improvements cleaning up the striping at Gay Street. That is already I believe, a four way stop. But we’ll be enhancing those crossings and putting in new reflective stop signs. We are working on Bowen Street, we are also looking at providing additional cleaning up the crossings, cleaning up the signs providing some yield signs to pedestrians as well as additional warning signs noting that there is a crosswalk there so that they should be yielding to pedestrians as they are in the crosswalk.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:28
Hawk signal Hawk signals are usually what we see for pedestrian movements at mid block crossings as well as the RFPs we were looking at those on several the intersections RFPs but found
Unknown Speaker 1:08:42
please make sure your questions are on the mic so I can hear them.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:55
Sure. Was there any accounting for I called Hawkeye? Sorry, Hawk signals. I know that those are normally midblock accommodations, but I know it’s Third Street and kind of the nature of it if that would have made sense.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:13
And we did look at our FBS at several intersections, but we didn’t look at it any POC signals we were we were we’re not seeing those would be the best use to provide some of the crossings. So we moving a little further up we are putting in some of our flashing or our radar speed limit signs. We are also some of the new signs we are buying will be data collection systems. So we will be able to identify both the number of cars counts of cars as well as get data on on speeds of of cars throughout here. We recently in conjunction with public safety bought them several of those signs that are out Actually portable signs where they can strap them to a pole, we’re going to actually install permanent signs here for so we have those at this location. Then moving on. Oh, wait, I’m sorry. I’m sorry.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:20
Jim, quick question, I guess this one works to, on on the, excuse me on the signs that show the speed limit, because I know Mountain View has them couple of the streets, have there been a data collected after the fact that shows whether you’re getting more compliance with with speeds, because I know that’s very difficult to kind of gauge based on, those are really just signs that are showing speed and aren’t really doing anything for compliance.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:46
So as we kind of move forward in the future, that’s kind of what our intention is, as we install some of these facilities is the ability with with some of these temporary signs, the flashing ones to build a database of what’s the problem, and that’s one of the components of Vision Zero is that is a is data collection across kind of the city that starts to identify where some of the problems are. That’s one of the reasons public safety wanted some of the signs, they want to start identifying where people are speeding, that they can put, you know, their forces to best use. So, you know, we’re looking at this later this year to pick up a few more outside of this project. And I want to I’d have to get back to you. And I’ll finalize this prior to the next meeting. But I believe we were going to bow in as stopped control entirely. So my graphic is wrong. So I do apologize for that. But I’ll have that information for the April 6 meeting. Verify that but there was an intersection in there, we were providing stop control, it did warrant a fourth the four way stop. So moving up, we are coming up to Sherman Street, we are looking at curb extensions and a four a three way stop. At for the northern leg, we have traffic counts, or pedestrian counts have a lot of movement there. So we want to provide that protective crossing. It’s also an intersection at the bend of the road has caused a lot of problems with sight distance. So we were looking to provide a a three way stop. And then we were also from our public meeting there and some of our analysis, there’s an access issue for cars coming southbound on Francis to access the corridor that missed the graphic. And this is the right one. So this is a blow up. The difference with this is we are undertaking a drainage project through here that’s going to be coming hopefully shortly. And there’s a lot of utilities in this corridor. So that design is dragging a little bit. We originally intended to put curb extensions, these will not occur here simply because of the drainage issues and getting the water to drain. But that drainage project will come up here and then go down the alley to an existing pipe and tie into an existing pipe just off the alley. And that is that project has to occur before these start coming to fruition for us to do start doing the concrete work, which is the first thing we’ll do as part of the project. Continuing on, we are going to be putting in a making use of these existing curb extensions here putting on a crosswalk at Vivian there will also be additional signage on that both both preliminary signs coming in the approach as well as signs at the intersection and then following up with flashing speed signs again, between the two Vivian’s as we move down to sunset we will be restriping the area the alignment based on when we came in paved last year putting bike lanes to the west. That kind of caused some issues so we’re going to realign some of the striping. Read rehab re enhance the crosswalks as well as all the stop signs. This is a this intersection is rather challenging. It’s one of the four to four way stop. That gets a medium amount of traffic. It’s one of our highest crash intersections. So we want to realign this with some some striping and then some tick marks across the intersection. So it lines up. And again we are as part of this striping. We are going to provide not just a double yellow down the middle but also we’re going to kind of note the parking on either side with a solid white line and provide as much parking as we can. Once we kind of establish the plan or the construction is done we will we will take simply by going out and re looking at the parking areas, revising sight distance, checking sight distance, and making sure it’s in compliance with our criteria, and anticipating that we are looking to to maximize some of the parking along the corridor. That is our goal, one of our goals, as well as maintaining the traffic through here and slowing those cars down. And then providing, you know, on on Sherman on Vivian, on Judson access onto the corridor. So that’s really what we’re going to sum this all up. April 6, I’ll be doing this again. And hopefully, I’ll be better at it. So any of the board have any questions? Or?
Unknown Speaker 1:15:53
Where does the demand for parking come from?
Unknown Speaker 1:15:59
Well, this corridor is actually really challenging. So you’ve got you’ve got kind of a change in in use, excuse me. You’ve got you know, a commercial kind of entity. You’ve got some businesses down here you’ve got a church. We see parking intermixed, intermix through here, the the parking changes, some is on the north side. In America, some is on the south side, as we move kind of towards into the residential area. There’s, we see a lot of use on the south side. Actually, no, we don’t allow parking on the north side. So we see it through here. We we have seen it intermittently a little bit through here. There there is the the West Side tavern. So this gets some use. One of the challenges I think that that started the project is when we took a look on the site distance on Sherman and Francis we used the most strictest standards because of the amount of traffic we saw in the speeds and the sight lines to promote the sight lines. I think part of this project will get us back to our normal standard and not because we can with it’ll be a little bit safer to provide it back to the normal standard not use the most strictest standards. So and then you know kind of on the parking on the west side. Most of the homes they’re on Johnson their their alley loaded and there’s adequate parking on the roads we don’t see as much here on the kind of west of Francis, I want to say you see it a little bit but if you drive it it, we don’t see it significantly. But if the parking is intermixed throughout the area of where it’s needed, or where it’s wanted
Unknown Speaker 1:18:04
I guess the OEM Well, one question in the comment, these bump outs are we trying to focus them on every intersection or is there a reason not here or, or is it just not?
Unknown Speaker 1:18:19
We’re actually there we were looking at at the intersection of Pratt if you drive it today, it is very wide particularly on the east side. So we were looking at having to desperately do something there. It is a long way for somebody to walk most of the other areas it is it is more reasonable and part of the challenge with curb extensions is how do you drain the road so we’re looking at we looked at some of those areas and felt it with with some signage in this case at Bowman is gonna be stopped control it wasn’t necessarily needed.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:52
And I think one comment coming from a cyclists I’m okay with no bikes on third I think you know, I think spruce or going north on sixth or fourth is better better option for safety
Unknown Speaker 1:19:15
so one of the things we have Phil and I have had conversations about it’s nothing official is that you know you look at Fourth Avenue and it is a really kind of a strange corridor. It’s got bike lanes on it, but in the area of the park it’s got huge travel lanes as well. So those are areas as we as we kind of kind of morph into what we’re going to be doing on Main Street we’ll be doing a coffin how do we get bikes there? We’ve had discussions about hey, do we want to do one way streets on those east west streets and then make you know one side of the road to a bike lane? Okay One of the challenges with with I know I know you love that separated bike lane. Okay separated from the road put it but I know it costs a lot. Well, but one of the challenges is that it’s Certain areas you’re gonna have you have a lot of residential driveways and some areas and providing access for that for those driveways that’s one of our challenges
Unknown Speaker 1:20:22
a great idea to really smash these people really don’t have any there are no crosswalks there aren’t massive park there and there are no crosswalks into it. So that’s that’s part of what I’m sure you’re still working on with the school the principal the interest.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:01
Jim and we met a few months back regarding Central. This you added across? No, you added a crosswalk here, here. Sorry, here here. And you met painted this one repainted this one because currently, as this map sets when it was shot, this was the only crosswalk ordering the entire school, this was the only crosswalk. So there is one here now, there is one here now. And after Tony pastor is now one here, when you and I spoke, you also had stated are that the stop signs currently are beyond the crosswalk. And there was talk about taking those stop signs and putting them pre crosswalk. So it makes sense. I had brought up to you that this park is a beautiful park, but it is an attractive nuisance if you will. Because I don’t mean that in the wrong way. I mean it because the kids use the park after school. And they run across the street. But there’s nothing there. There’s no, there’s no crosswalk. There’s nothing there. Now there is one here that you’ve added. But it’s a draw that these kids run to here. And then we live right here. We have a great view of everything that goes on the school. After school, the kids use the playground until it stock. And you know, as you know, it’s a commuter school, there was no busing to central at all. So everybody that comes to the school, they’re biking, skateboarding, skiing, their parents are taking them but they’re also running on their own. So my main concern is the school and due to it being Elementary, especially.
Unknown Speaker 1:23:13
Yeah, and I thank you for that. For for for that there. Were there were a number of items I think we talked about and we’re looking at addressing I think there was a we wanted to extend this. The school zone, I think up to the point and our operations team are Yep, flashing light, we were going to push it to this pole, our signal team was was supposed to have that accomplished. That is something I’d have to check up on. I think we were going to relocate the end school zone here down to match with the flasher. Okay. All right, here. Yep. And that’s gonna move. That was what we agreed to. We’ll we’ll make sure that happens. I don’t I drove it. I think last week, I don’t think this we wanted to have this rehabbed I don’t think, I don’t think they did a good rehab because it didn’t look like it when I drove it. The weather hits it. So and, and I believe that’s these we put in with pain. I thought that was thermo that should last longer. So but we’ll have it we’ll have that’ll be something we’ll again, in the crosswalk scenario, we’ll have them touched up this summer before school.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:21
Remember, the flashing light, I’m sorry, the flashing light is on on the on the side of the street. And then immediately across the street is the end of schools.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:33
Right? And we would move both we would you know, if we would move the the sign actually, if it’s depending on where that end of school zone is, we’d have to look at it that was for the flasher down down here. But we would probably move it back up to the we would shift around we’ll take a look at it. It’s,
Unknown Speaker 1:24:47
you know, brought it up to us before school started. And now I think we’re going to be through another school year. And it’s almost like, you know, I know when I met with you both and I said it’s not a matter of when or if it’s going to happen. It’s a matter of when it’s Any something that an accident and it certainly did happen two weeks later.
Unknown Speaker 1:25:04
So one of the things I will hopefully, you know, is positive news. We have a new traffic engineer. That position sat, when we had spoken that position hadn’t been filled yet. He’s a he’s a younger engineer, he’s got a lot of different ideas regarding multimodal versus some of our traditional in the past, we’ve had a kind of the goal of traffic engineers is to move traffic and traffic meaning cars, I think we there’s a change of kind of philosophy, both in the traffic unit as well as our city council in regards to making things safe. So we we hear you, we’re working on it. We will, you know, we you and I had met out there we we’d committed to a few things, we’ll make sure they get done.
Unknown Speaker 1:25:53
I have a question. Is this one? Okay. I have a question. Um, my children, both went to Central Elementary, they are both high school and 21. But why was never why has bras never had a school crossing because the preschool and kindergarten, the preschool comes out of the east side of the school. And, you know, as you were speaking, I don’t really but but as you were speaking, the children and the families do go across an access and use Thompson Park immediately after school and the school also uses Thompson park a lot during their school day. Why has bras never been part of a school zone? flashing light? Or just in general? Is it because gay is or there’s the there’s no rhyme or reason or signage really stating that there is a school and there are young children in that area?
Unknown Speaker 1:27:00
And I very good question. But I don’t have an answer for you. That’s lost to history as to why the previous unless Phil has an answer. I’m not sure. But if we, you know, one of one of the things we look at when we measure an intersection is we look at what’s the existing traffic, foot traffic, pedestrian traffic, if there’s a need. And we see that the school we we have, should be meeting with the school, mostly, you know, we’re kind of starting this time of year to start talking about some of the improvements if there’s a need for it, we can certainly in look at it and install something. But part of that has to be a partnership with the school district. And I don’t know that that. You know, I just don’t know the history of it. But
Unknown Speaker 1:27:45
I’m gonna try to channel some of the older engineers who used to work before you did. One of the reasons that I always heard and this is coming from a plant or not an engineer, but one of the reasons that we weren’t always here is the Gay Street as a collector Street. And typically collectors are 30 mile per hour streets, and any kind of local street like bras. So this is a collector Third Avenue is a collector a gay streets, a collector, both of them originally had speed limits set at 30. And now the idea of a school zone was to slow people down more than 10 miles per hour. So you put them on the collectors to slow people down from 30 to 20. But if you had a local street, the default speed limit on all on all local streets, you’ll see it as you come into town is 25. So the idea was don’t invest in flashers that slow people down five miles per hour. Invest in the ones that slow people down 10 Or more miles per hour. So that’s was the logic used back then. But we’ve since changed it all around town. So you’ll see other 25 mile per hour streets that have flashers, but it was a slow change, but it was one that has been coming. So that’s all I know.
Unknown Speaker 1:29:04
Thank you. That’s a good, good. That’s that’s very helpful to understand how to answer your question. And the other thing that we’ve noticed is the principal said that this is the new handicap entrance to the school. And there’s absolutely no protection or loading zone at that point. I’m sure they’ll want to speak to you about that
Unknown Speaker 1:29:37
i i gotta tell you, it’d be nice if they told us before they installed the handicap ramp, we wouldn’t work with them and so we’ll reach out to them. We’ll have a chat.
Unknown Speaker 1:29:50
Any other questions for Jim?
Unknown Speaker 1:29:56
Yeah, I was wondering I live on long speaker gay intersection. And there’s been a lot of accidents there 30 years there’s been, I’d say, if you average it out and one accident a month, and I don’t know what what’s the ranking of that intersection as far as severity in town, she seems like it should be pretty high.
Unknown Speaker 1:30:18
So off the top of my head, I don’t know, we did just publish our crash study for up through 2021. From 2016 to 2021. I think we do it in five year, every year and a five year cycle, I’d have to look at that data and see what it is. But certainly, you know, we we list intersections, based on on speed limit, and then we have the ranking based on an index of, of accidents. So that is available, I’d have to see if the current one has been posted to the to the website, but that is public information that’s available. So let me give you a card you can get you can email me I can send you the the that appropriate data.
Unknown Speaker 1:31:02
If it’s higher and severity, you actually get to do something about trying to resolve it
Unknown Speaker 1:31:08
or something, that’s what we usually see is, is as we see those higher intersections, whether it’s signalized, or non signalized, those are ones that go to the top of the list for what we look for for safety improvements.
Unknown Speaker 1:31:19
Yeah, I I’ve had at least five cars land in my yard over the years, just after accidents. Last one, was fleeing the scene after he ran the stop sign and took a shortcut through my yard and almost hit me my driveway. But it’s kind of getting started the Cars Land and my my, my yard went out my house too. So.
Unknown Speaker 1:31:54
accident, and were in your backyard taking care of five children who were in a car accident, you know.
Unknown Speaker 1:32:05
So, so this is of the list of on signalized average daily traffic 3000 to about 12,000 vehicles a day. Gay and Long’s peak is number 11 on the list. So it is on that that the list of of intersections that when we start looking at how we’re going to dress them, that is one that we would start looking at, you know, as we move, third and gay is one week.
Unknown Speaker 1:32:34
Mr. Angstadt. Mr. Angstadt, thank you. If I could please, for those that have spoken and ask questions that have not signed in, if you could please do so I can add your name to the minutes.
Unknown Speaker 1:32:51
And since we’re talking about the school, and pines guide is BS. I know there was a like concrete brick on Alpine for a little bit north way north north of 21st. And then now it turned into speed bumps was their BBs. Like in terms of my international experience, a lot of schools have, you know, textured brick ways to actually slow down cars. So meaning this, you know that I know that’s, you know, you’re talking you’re talking about a lot of money.
Unknown Speaker 1:33:22
No, but yeah, but you know, we, we already got off topic.
Unknown Speaker 1:33:30
So but just, you know, pie in the sky ideas? And then also, you know, shout out to modern roundabouts as well, eventually.
Unknown Speaker 1:33:40
I appreciate always appreciate your comments. Thank you. So
Unknown Speaker 1:33:50
we are looking at a school in a park here along through it. So I’ll ask this question in Longmont. Are there any land uses that warrant crosswalks without the need for site specific study? And as a follow up, what would it take to put schools and parks into that category?
Unknown Speaker 1:34:19
I’m not sure how to answer that except to say that as certainly land uses are taken into into account, but it’s more of how much trip generation they create as far as pedestrians and bicycles. And you’re talking about two places that really do a lot of that chip trip generation. But we’re talking about an older part of town that was developed, you know, 150 plus years ago. So there’s a lot of issues going into this. But you know, if this were built built today, we would definitely we would have a lot of those different things taken care of with the construction of those areas today. I don’t know again, how to answer your question in this context. So I apologize.
Unknown Speaker 1:35:05
I will just say one more thing to you know, because it’s so a crosswalk isn’t marked necessarily. It’s still a crosswalk. So you still have to stop for anybody who’s trying to cross between. And that’s not a good example, because I guess you’re saying it’s now striped. But even if it’s not marked, it’s still,
Unknown Speaker 1:35:24
well, this one’s not. Right?
Unknown Speaker 1:35:35
This is not
Unknown Speaker 1:35:42
the cars will not stop. And that’s part of the we talked about that with Vision Zero, I’m sorry, she just said the cars will not stop at the, at the unmarked crosswalks, which they’re supposed to do by law. But I think that’s part of the vision is there a process that we talked about is the education and that’s something we’re gonna have to get across to the whole city. And that’s gonna be tough, right? So go ahead. To be to be fair to the drivers.
Unknown Speaker 1:36:09
As, as you’ve described, this is kind of an accreted situation that started 150 years ago. And the signs that exist, don’t ever say crosswalk. The signs are not consistent with the modern safety design, they show a picture of, I think, a lady and a child. So you know, we could make a lot of improvement with with, with a little bit of money.
Unknown Speaker 1:36:36
We appreciate that. And I think that’s what Jim is trying to do with, with the different markings because you do need to formalize it, to bring it out to people to that’s part of the education process almost at this point, because people don’t know the laws. And so that’s something we need to do a better job when we do Vision Zero, is explain that. Are there any other questions? If not, we should probably start to reconvene and finish up the meeting. I don’t know.
Unknown Speaker 1:37:04
Hopefully, we’ll see everybody, April 6, I think we’re at the library, one of the library rooms. So we’ll hopefully see you there. And we’ll have more staff on hand that will be able to provide any question or answered any questions, you have more of a one on one kind of dynamic time, I think it’s going to be I want to say 530 to seven is we’re going to Well, the short presentation to start we’re going to update this project as well as some other projects that are in the area we’ve talked about before price, Park tank, coffin Street, give you update on that. And then we’ll open it up probably for about an hour of looking at the role plot and one on one discussion.
Unknown Speaker 1:37:50
Is there a way for people to email questions ahead of time so you have an idea of what people are going to be asking so that there’s to help steer? Or
Unknown Speaker 1:38:02
yeah, believe we are when you get the letter there will be directions to if you have questions ahead of time you can go through our service works website and ask questions and we’ll either answer them then or be prepared to answer them at the meeting.
Unknown Speaker 1:38:37
People please sign in if they’ve got to speak at all. That would be wonderful. Thanks for doing that. I think we got everybody thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:27
Filter we’re gonna reconvene.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:30
Sure it’s up to you.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:32
Yeah, I think so. We did the budget discussion. Are there any any other items from staff that we want to discuss tonight?
Unknown Speaker 1:39:44
We have some items at the end for upcoming agendas. But other than that, if you want to take member comments or board comment board member comments and council member comment. I think that’s where we are on the agenda. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:57
We’ll start to my right now.
Unknown Speaker 1:40:03
No, that was fun. And Jim, thank you for dealing with me and my my crazy ideas, but I always like to think big. And I do appreciate the comment that you made about the new engineer and being a bit of, you know, thinking outside of the two ton box a little bit sometimes. So So that’s encouraging to hear, especially for for future projects. But yeah, that’s, that’s all my thoughts. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:40:42
Sorry, yes, the 2021 crash report, presented at the board’s December meeting, compared Longmont to pure communities based on some incomplete and outdated information. staff agreed to revise the crash report, what’s the status of that revision?
Unknown Speaker 1:41:09
stuff we’ll check up on that and see where we are with all that information. So well. Unfortunately, one staff member is out today usually makes it and she probably she probably could answer that question right here tonight. But we’ll get back with you at our April meeting and answer that question for you.
Unknown Speaker 1:41:25
All right. You do recall the issue of though?
Unknown Speaker 1:41:27
Yeah, we have the notes. And and we won’t just, we won’t just have it. An update on that. We’ll have it done by then. We’ll get make sure it I mean, it was done last year, we should have had it updated and revised. So if it hasn’t gotten done, because we’ve gotten distracted by the things, we’ll make sure it gets done. And our report to you in April will say, Oh, yeah, here it is.
Unknown Speaker 1:41:50
Unknown Speaker 1:41:57
Council member Yarbro.
Unknown Speaker 1:42:00
Thank you, Chair. I just want to make sure that do you all want me to mention city during city council meeting tomorrow about the the presentation for Third Street? I know you’re going to put out so now information, but would you like for me to mention it Doran Council comments on tomorrow night.
Unknown Speaker 1:42:29
One of the the standard practices we follow is we will be sending out an email invite to city council for that public meeting that will go out before we do a press release on it. Okay, so we we’ve had that covered via communications. So if you’d like to assure but we’ll have it covered anyway, so Council will be advised of it. As we you know, similar to you got the email this weekend or later on Friday for the mind when we see press release coming we send a notice directly to counsel. So they have that information ahead of the press release.
Unknown Speaker 1:43:07
Yeah, okay, well, you know, Friday and Saturday we’re retreat nobody looked at their emails. little busy. Um, okay, I just want to make sure because you know, there’s always somebody we need to use all measurements of communication as possible because somebody will say they never knew about it, they didn’t see it, they didn’t know that it was happening, they didn’t know all those things were going on. I do also just want to reiterate to the board about the capital improvement project now that I’ve you know, learning so much more that just because you put out something and you say this is an estimate cost it you know, you always have to come back because of adjustments or modifications and things like that. And I totally get it in understand Vision Zero I’m in support of Vision Zero already had the city are ordered those lineup bracelet so so I can’t speak for all my other my co counselors, but I’m totally 100% in support of preventative measurements in order to keep our pedestrians and all of our community safe as possible in the number one thing. The key for that preventative is education and community engagement. And so I think for the board is to continuously think about some some ways that we can engage our community about this new opportunity for us for all community members because we all have to play a part. You know, just be we can’t assume like Over there on Broughton. Third that there’s a school and people have common sense to slow down during the school. That doesn’t happen. Common sense is not so common all the time. So we do have to educate people, because we do have so many people that are moving in our wonderful city to live here. So it’s important. And so if you all as a board can come up with some suggestions and about how we can engage the community and communicate with them in a more effective, effective and efficient way, please, we take all suggestions so that we can start putting that in place, you know, when we adopt that plan, but just know that council woman Yarbro is on board for Vision Zero. And thank you all for what you do everything. You got your bracelet.
Unknown Speaker 1:45:53
Yeah, you know, the only thing I want to add is I’m really heartened by the fact that we had so many citizens come in today. And and that’s advocacy right there that hopefully, they’re gonna go out and talk about things like Vision Zero. And councilmember your yarborough’s words are true is that community engagement is probably going to get us farthest. In terms of the results of isn’t Vision Zero, then all the changes, you can make design wise to signs and roundabouts, whatever it might be. So I’m heartened by that that that they showed up today. And maybe from that, that would be a seed that we will we will have folks talk about Vision Zero. And I completely agree with you. And I do think we should brainstorm on? What are the ways that we can create community engagement around Vision Zero? Because I hate to say it, I think traditionally the wet the Saturday morning coffees and some of the other things as they’re tried and true, but they’re treading through with the same crowd. So how are we going to engage folks that would not normally engage, especially with something that’s so critical about mobility, transportation is talking about equity. So I guess it’s going to be an ongoing project. And we’re going to have to worry and I know, we’ve mentioned how much community engagement has been built into Vision Zero, I remember the conversation we had about vision, Vision Zero prior. So that’s all I’ll say about that. But I think tonight was was a good success for not having votes. And so with that, since we don’t really have to do any sort of what wet second in motion, we’ll go ahead and end this meeting. And yes, Phil, you want to add,
Unknown Speaker 1:47:31
just want to make sure we have your follow up items for the next agenda kind of listed out so we can kind of put it on record. Actually, typically, in April, we do an RTD update. So that’s typically when you have RTD comm. But I think our April schedule is so full, that we might want to postpone that off for a month or two. So we did get the update on Gay Street that you wanted to hear about. So we’ve got that on our schedule. We want to talk about the transportation mobility plan and how it works with the enhanced multi use corridors. And maybe a little bit more discussion on how the plans will kind of come together with that envision zero. And then there is the Vision Zero resolution that you’ve asked for, as well as the update on the crash report and making sure we get the crash report to you incorrectly finalized. So those are the big four issues that we have. And again, I think we’ll push RTD off just one more month. And we’ll get into your schedule that way. That seems appropriate. Okay. Just wanted to confirm. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:48:40
Okay, I guess we’re adjourned.
Unknown Speaker 1:48:48
Do we want to discuss board recruitment? Or?
Unknown Speaker 1:48:50
I think we’ll need to do that at the April meeting as well. I think that’s a good addition to start the discussion and figure out how we put that together who wants to be on the on the interview committee? If it’s 123 or four of you,
Unknown Speaker 1:49:05
I think it was I think actually two is effective when it was okay councilmember Osborn and myself. But the openings are listed on the prime gov sub Longmont site. Is that correct?
Unknown Speaker 1:49:18
We should have probably done a little bit more sales job with the people who are all here. Audience probably should stuff so hopefully they can still hear us out there but
Unknown Speaker 1:49:26
maybe throw a banner up on the website, you know, Transportation Board needs you, you know, that sort of thing. Perfect
Unknown Speaker 1:49:43
do we get that on the record because that was really good. Yeah. Okay, I think we’re adjourned.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai