Airport Advisory Board – August 12, 2021
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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Unknown Speaker 0:00
Well, good evening, everyone. Let’s call to order the August 12 2021. Airport advisory board meeting. I see everyone. Can we please call the roll? Chairman Earl. board members bliss here. Dean Jacobson, here joining Robeson Wiseman. Counselor Peck. Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you very much. First agenda. David, are you do you want to do a farewell and welcome? Sure. Wait a second. She’s gonna sign up. Alright. Well, we’ll pause for just a second and then I’ll turn it over to you.
Unknown Speaker 0:58
So, Chairman, Earl and board members, Miss Michelle Gomez has been taking on lots and lots of duties. And she’s also got other things going on. And her time with us has come to an end. And she’s done a great job for us. I’m very appreciative of her and all that she’s done for me, especially. So we sent her off with a good farewell and a huge thank you and also saying Tom, welcome our new recording secretary, Miss dn Kia, who works at Senior Services for the city. And I’ll let her introduce herself as she wants to.
Unknown Speaker 1:46
Deanna from senior services, I’m an office assistant over there. And I’m really happy to be here. And thank you, Dave, for giving me this opportunity. Thank you, Dan. Welcome.
Unknown Speaker 1:57
Unknown Speaker 1:58
have you with us. And Michelle, thank you again for everything. Let’s move on to our public invited to be heard. Sounds like no one’s signed up. Is there anyone who’d like to speak at this point? Seeing none, let’s move on to approval of the minutes from our July 8 2021. regular meeting. Anyone have any comments, revisions? Or we’ll entertain a motion to approve the minutes?
Unknown Speaker 2:27
Yeah. I move that we approve the minutes as written. Motion to approve minutes. Do we have a second? I’ll second that. Thank you. So that’s moved and seconded. Vice Chair Jordan and, Mr. Dean.
Unknown Speaker 2:48
Any discussion of the motion? All those in favor of approving the minutes say aye. Aye. And raise your hands? I thank you, Aye. All those opposed? So all in favor, six in favor, one absent? Full business financial update, Mr. Slater?
Unknown Speaker 3:09
chair. So I’m just going to scroll down to it. It’s pretty brief. Like we gave pretty much the full explanation last time of most of the things that had any updates, but your due date received is $371,320.79. And either expanded or encumbered to be spent. The delta between was received and being spent. We still have a delta of $22,144.36.
Unknown Speaker 3:47
Any questions for Mr. Slater? You have to do the button that I can let you and Mr. bliss.
Unknown Speaker 3:57
I gave we just talked about the $59,000. Grant. What does that show up on? Is this on the current
Unknown Speaker 4:06
financial since you just have it is not? Okay. The grants that we’ve received have not been like finalized. As soon as we get that executed back from the FAA, then we’ll put it on our grant sheet and I’ll have it on future. A future sheet the third sheet than I normally do for grants will have it on that. And then we’ll see when we start expanding funds towards those grants. That’s what I was going to start showing you Because right now, we haven’t expended any funds for any grants. The grants that we’re getting from the FAA, under the airport rescue Act, or Recovery Act is basically reimbursing us for cost that we’ve already budgeted for.
Unknown Speaker 4:54
Thank you. Anyone else? Any question? Alright, 1488, I know that you get away this easy repairs and maintenance and professional contract services. We’ve talked about the reasons for them. I’m just looking at available budget on both of those getting rather late. Are we going to have to? Are you going to have to move things around or ask for supplemental appropriation? Or what are we thinking on this?
Unknown Speaker 5:25
If anything, we may have to submit an appropriation we’ve pretty much already moved stuff around as much as we can that had been approved, within our roll up, fund the airport fund. So if for some reason we do need to add funds, we’ll just do an additional appropriation for the last part of the year. But yes, that’s that’s one of the things that I’d mentioned it, if you noticed, you know, we were, we were originally at like, 90, something 1000, then we went to 120,000, and network 140 to 750, just because I have been making money from different line items. Because they’re all approved into our roll up. So it’s it’s more of just kind of showing you where that money is going. And that 26 770 were going to do the net that we anticipate doesn’t notice perceived on the detention pond on the north side. Next week, so within the next month after that we should have that detention pond down and that 26 770 will come out of that amount. And of course, we’ll still have about 40 $800. Under under that. I think that pretty much covers it. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 6:51
Thank you. Yeah, I think if we’re if you’re going to the appropriation. I’d like to be active in you know, making sure it Council is aware of the advisory board’s opinions as we do those. So, if that happens, I reckon if we don’t have to approve it, but my sure I’ll make a recommendation. Okay, along with it. Just have the discussion. Absolutely. Any further questions or comments? All right, and you’re still up, but discussion pertaining to future development.
Unknown Speaker 7:24
So the update on that is pretty short and sweet. It’s, we The city has kind of put that on a brief hold. In order to look at the airport layout plan update. And part of that we’ve we’ve spoken with the engineering consultants that we have on contract. And they are going to provide us a scope of work and cost estimate because they’re going to include, we’ve asked them to include a market analysis to see what the market is looking like for airports like mass brand out there today, what people are looking to develop airports, what’s the best fit for this airport. And of course, they all include the economic impact that the state of Colorado has provided as well as part of their study and make recommendations on how to take the airport layout plan based off of that, so we’re going to wait until we get going on that before we can really decide what really needs to be done on Alp and then we’ll bring that back to the board. And of course, I’ll be emailing my share Jordan and remember Robeson with the schedule for the llama to oil subcommittee, the transportation subcommittee. Okay. Any questions, comments, discussion? Mr. Robeson, thank you. I have to turn you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Unknown Speaker 9:05
Nothing real serious, but just thinking as David’s talking here. The city, I guess is spending more money than maybe anticipated on on these engineers if they’re going to add on to market analysis. This sounds to me like the kind of thing that an airport advisory board might be useful for is saying, What are similar airports doing in the state of Colorado? What is a good fit for Vance brand? This all sounds like it would be within our purview. So I’m wondering, does the city need to spend money on engineers to provide your technical analysis of what is good for the future events
Unknown Speaker 9:38
grants, so they’re actually selling out the market analysis part. And that is something that my boss is assistant city manager for external services and are going to meet with the city manager in the next couple of weeks to Discuss the scope of work that’s meant provided along with the cost estimates to make sure that is what he believes the city is looking for as far as a study Now, as far as you guys being involved, you certainly will be approached and brought into the conversation that y’all would fall under, definitely following the key stakeholders. So I think that you do have a big role to play, I think we’re just waiting in line, getting that scope of work and estimates brought before the city manager’s office, to finalize to make sure that that’s what he was anticipating spending on a course will will determine where that funding comes from or real determine where that funding comes from. And I don’t even just mean, in the end, like, you know, you
Unknown Speaker 10:49
need to approach us to make sure we’re in the loop out of respect or anything like that. I mean, why doesn’t the city say, Hey, is this something you guys can do? As an appointed board for free? By the way? Sure. more of like a service we can provide?
Unknown Speaker 11:03
That is something I’ll pass along to my boss and up the chain of command and see what what their response is? Maybe they’re looking for something professional and technical? Just Yeah, I think, yeah, it could be. I’m just waiting to hear what their thoughts are on it, because it’s already been elevated to their level, which is why we’re going to talk to them. And instead of us just moving forward with development. They have some thoughts on on those things, and they wanted to bring up professional consultant, and that does that kind of thing. So I will definitely run it up and see if this is something that they’re willing to bring you guys in to do rather than spending X amount of dollars, whatever that might be.
Unknown Speaker 11:50
Has that ever happened where the city said, Hey, we want to do something at the airport. And but we need some information put together in a presentation. Hey, board, is this something you guys can put together and show to us? That’s never worked in that direction before?
Unknown Speaker 12:05
I’ve been here for six and a half years? And I haven’t seen that yet. Not not to the extent that that you’re referring to I’ve seen the board have input on other things and be involved with other projects. But for this type of project, I haven’t seen that. That’s not to say it hadn’t happened just not sets up anyway.
Unknown Speaker 12:29
They were what’s the timeline for this? Since we, it sounded like, you know, things were there’s a desire from stakeholders to move relatively quickly on development. There’s people kind of willing and able to, how much are we slowing down to do the whole study?
Unknown Speaker 12:48
Can I get back to you on that? I don’t, I can’t give you something I feel comfortable as accurate without sitting down and looking at. Because I mean, you you’ve got staff that stays busy with entire, I mean, you’re talking about the assistant city manager and the city manager involved in this discussion. And of course, they have things currently going on. And so as so happens, they’re out of the office right now. And we’re just trying to finalize the scope of work and the estimate to get to them and talk about it. So it’s going to be at least a couple of weeks before we actually sit down around the city manager on this. So you can definitely add two weeks there. Obviously, once you pull the trigger, they’ll have to drop a contract, get another contract when they have to make sure we have the funding. So you might as well add another two to four weeks on that. And then however long, long it takes the consultant to get it done, which I would hope it would be only a 60 or 90 day process. I don’t that’s the part that I’m not sure of. So I wouldn’t I wouldn’t see us doing an RFP or an RF Q. You’re just it goes with you this year at least. Say you your RFP RFP for the quest for development, I wouldn’t see us because we still have to get the Alp updated to make sure that the FAA is gonna be okay with it getting approved.
Unknown Speaker 14:31
Mr. game? Yes. David, do you have the preliminary cost for how much this is going to cost the city with the engineers or did I should have that by next week? Hopefully. Hey, let’s say Vice Chair Jordan.
Unknown Speaker 14:51
Thank you. Um The city has a reputation of spending money on studies and It’s not a popular thing among the citizens. And given what we’ve just come through, and you know, we look just looked at our budget, potential shortfall in the budget. My question would be, what is the format, if we’re provided with a format, you know, we’ve got, we all go to other airports, we’ll see what we like, we’ll see what we don’t like at our own. We’re pretty full of ideas and opinions. And if we have a format, put that into, and could put it on our agenda, and next month or the month after whatever, complete, you know, fill in a request for information in the format the city would want to see. At least if we had a preliminary report that then some professional could look at and charge you to take a look at it and tell you it was okay. So as I’m a consultant, we are a bunch of us do this for a living, but it’s Yeah, it feels like we just did the safety study, we, you know, what are we doing, we’re not getting anywhere, we’re just doing a lot of studies. And we have the we have plenty of opinions right here. As to what we feel like our report should look like we’ve got some developers with ideas. But even if you’d want to keep it sterile, and keep it to the board, if we just know what format they want to see, and they need numbers with it. Or if we can provide at least the list that somebody else and an engineer can go attach numbers to, we could hopefully cut the bill in half, something like that. I think, if we were to make a motion, I think we’d probably get an agreement that we’d all like to help and participate because it’s our airport. And yeah, they can come in and decide. I don’t even know why. But you know, and not something that benefits the operators of the airport, or the people who’ve lived here. I’ve lived here since 93. And so that would be I would respectfully request the some information back that we could format that we could use to provide input, whether you hire somebody or not, we’d still want to happen, input it through
Unknown Speaker 17:11
the shirt, and absolutely that you’re going to have that input, because that’s what the Alp update is going to accomplish and entail, it will take in into account what the airport needs are, as far as where the development is going forward. And I think they’re looking at the current market, because there are several airports that are experiencing significant development. It’s just different for different regions, different locations, different types of airports. And I think that they’re wanting to make sure that we have the right approach here. And so those consultants, that’s this is what they do. They do play, they are planning consultants, as well as engineering consultants. And part of that process is to include the key stakeholders wish, the audios. So I believe that you will have input into that document,
Unknown Speaker 18:12
I guess, I think what we’re sadly so I think Russ, and I probably could agree on this, that we’re looking to have input off of their, of their clock, let’s have our input for free, and then provide it to them. And then the clock could start running short, I don’t, I don’t think we need a moderator to have a discussion and decide on a hot list of things that we’d be interested in or that we feel would benefit. And again, a lot of people fly around to a lot of other airports, they’d be looking, I get it from the city standpoint, the 2.0 standpoint, I understand that. But if we could save some of their energy, going around and doing interviews or surveys or whatever they would do, and do our work in advance and provide them with some information to start with. And kind of shrink the budget on what has to be said, it just hurts to see a spend. I don’t know it’s gonna be 50 to $100,000, I would guess, for somebody to tell us what we need, we know what we need. So if we but again, I know we have to have a format, it has to like an RFP, it has to fit into that. And that would be what I’d be interested in knowing how we can complete something like that. And then if we could, that’d be a question. And I can definitely pass all that along. Okay. And then if we could put it as an agenda item for the board to have an open discussion about and I think that’s probably how it has to work. But I think we would appreciate that the to be ahead of the curve, because a lot of times things come to us and they’re done. They’re decided, and when they’ve written their report, and money’s been spent, and those decisions will have already been made. And then we have, we’re just talking to ourselves at that point. So to be able to be ahead of the discussion would be wonderful. And I don’t know if we need to have a motion to see if everybody’s on board for that or not. But I definitely second recist opinion that we’d like to have some input at the beginning, not at the end. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 20:15
As far as I know you want to, but I can’t turn it on until you hit that. And then I’ll come back, Vice Chair Jordan to the idea of emotion, if necessary, if that works. Mr. bliss.
Unknown Speaker 20:28
Just a comment. I second what, Miss Jordan to said, I’ve worked in a couple of projects, unrelated to airports, where we’ve had consultants that have charged a phenomenal amount, and we’ve got far less than we paid for it. So I secondly, once you both brought up, but my next My question is, what are the three top things you’re looking at for development for the airport?
Unknown Speaker 20:59
That’s what we’re trying to answer. Well, you got any input? Today? I will, I will, what are your three items, you’re going to this. For me, this is more about updating the master plan. So that we show if we’re designating certain areas for certain types of development, and it’s all going to be general aviation is either going to be aeronautical or non aeronautical, whatever that looks like. And that is all going to come back from the market analysis. And that’s what the city is looking at. For me, I’m not looking at the master plan approach of what kind of projects do we need? Or what do what do we need here are those kind of things It is not that detailed, the plan is not laying out how hangers would be built or structures would be built or taxi lines would be placed, it would show, for instance, the infrastructure of taxi lanes on the broad scope as primary taxi line access to taxiway Bravo as future development, and it will show areas. That whether it’s electric aviation, or electric, vertical takeoff, some of the stuff that we talked about the past, it may be those things, it may be something more conventional and traditional, it may be something more corporate oriented. But that’s what the update to the airport layout plan is and telling is, how to develop that area and lay it out. And basically in segments is not about coming up with a plan of what we want at the airport is about what is the demand for the airport. And we update the Alp since the FAA can approve it, and we can move forward with an RFP based off what the market demand is.
Unknown Speaker 22:55
It seems to me that the demand and what we want are the same thing. What’s the difference?
Unknown Speaker 23:07
I’m just informing you guys. The city has put this on hold until they can look at a market analysis and update the Alp. And that’s what the updates about. I’m not getting into details about that. Because I can’t tell you what that looks like. Because the study hadn’t been done. And this is what the city has instructed me to do. And so I’m letting you know what the city’s instructed me to do. Oh, yeah, that’s not i’m not you know, I’m not criticizing, you know, I’m saying I don’t have an extra few questions, because I don’t I keep telling you what that looks like without the study being done.
Unknown Speaker 23:43
Okay, I understand that. It just seems to me that I’ve been here, the state of Colorado with six years. And I really don’t see much done to the airport that I was hearing about six years ago that needed to be done and hasn’t been
Unknown Speaker 24:03
common. I don’t have a comment. I’m providing you guys with it up.
Unknown Speaker 24:12
I can’t sit here in late layout. I understand that that that is a frustration. And that’s what this update to the Alp is intended to do is set the path forward for the south side. And what kind of development were those areas? What that market analysis looks like? That says this is the demand and we can put that here where is it best laid out and then that will guide the city and how they do RFP and r&r q to get a developer in there to develop the airport.
Unknown Speaker 24:49
Okay, I understand all that. I just told me don’t spend a lot of that money on consulting on projects that we know need to be done. I understand and and Investing. My only my last question for you is a $59,000 grant money that we got, what are the restrictions on the use of that money.
Unknown Speaker 25:08
It can’t be used for capital improvement or capital purchases, things like that. It’s used for maintenance, and operations, whether it’s gate repairs, grass cutting, it’ll be used towards salary, utilities, things like that. It’s basically those areas, as you’ve noticed, over the past couple of years since COVID, our fuel Floyd is in a lot lower than it was previously. So we’ve we’ve taken a hit there, and the cost of products and services has gone up significantly. And that help goes to the airports to help reimburse them for those things that have taken place since COVID. Hit and the expenses that have been incurred. And so whether it’s salary, utilities, products and services, for gate repairs, pavement patching, things like that. Grass cut grass cutting, so that money can’t be used to lengthen the runway. Correct. Okay, thank you. Mr. Robeson.
Unknown Speaker 26:20
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I’m certainly willing to take advice or amendments on this, but I move that we recommend to city council that when they receive the scope work for these engineers and the cost analysis that they consider whether they might get a better value from asking the airport advisory board to do it.
Unknown Speaker 26:41
Can I offer a friendly amendment? Absolutely. For a second, I don’t know if that’s proper. I’ll take it. Personally, if you say since it’s going to city manager at this point, I would recommend we suggest that to city management, in accordance with our public duties that are promoting awareness, utilization and development of the airport. Perfect. I would our Vice Chair Jordan, I second that motion. Okay. I will do my best to repeat the motion. And Mr. aubusson, please correct me. I’ll turn you on here to correct me if I need to. I believe the motion was to make a recommendation, as amended to the city manager to utilize the airport advisory board in accordance with our duty to promote awareness, utilization and development of the airport rather than or in cooperation with an external consultant to move forward with the Development Study. See, right. Okay. Moved and seconded. Open it up for discussion. All right, hearing no discussion. All those in favor? say Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries six nothing one absent. Any other discussion on this topic? Or Mr. Slater? If you’d like to continue anything else on there? All right, well, I’m hearing done then. We can move on to airport needs recommendations to council if at eight, which is our standing item. unless anyone has anything to note here. I’ll just point out we did write a letter of recommendation to mayor and council for the FTA request that we recommended they approved that and recommended so unanimously, we also wrote a letter to council supporting the updates rates and charges, which I believe is on the agenda later this month. Is that correct?
Unknown Speaker 28:46
That’s also been deferred and postponed. That was the mark. Since you brought it up. That was going to be my next comment and notify you guys that. Based off the discussion, internal discussions between the city attorney’s office and city manager’s office. It’s probably better to wait until we have a final determination from the FAA Associate Administrator with regards to the part 16 before we change any rates.
Unknown Speaker 29:16
I was under the impression that part 16 was done. Is that incorrect?
Unknown Speaker 29:20
So we received a determination from in favor of the city from the director. But they filed an appeal that goes to the Associate Administrator. I’m not sure how many are aware of Yes, there was a transition of the associate administrator’s office and there that was just recently made and I suspect that’s why the FAA has not yet made a determination from associate administrator’s office. And basically the appeal is not about re arguing the case, it’s whether or not the director was correct. And their determination. So the appeal is to the associate administrator to determine whether the director was correct in their determination. So we’re waiting on that to be finalized.
Unknown Speaker 30:24
And I’m gonna ask even though I know the answer, we don’t have a timeline on that. Do we
Unknown Speaker 30:29
know typically, we would expect it back saying but because I think the transfer of positions is part of it, and the FAA can give itself as many extensions as they want. Understood.
Unknown Speaker 30:50
So then that’s at least update as I have it on recreations Council. Does anyone have anything they’d like to bring out? That we should be recommending other than the motion we just passed? Hearing none, we can move on to a future agenda topics.
Unknown Speaker 31:07
I know we have one, which we’ll be bringing back Development Study the results of the discussion with the city manager’s office and hopefully a scoping fee.
Unknown Speaker 31:17
My suggestion on a future agenda topic is to review the bylaws is that a little while there may be some changes that the board wishes to make in the bylaws, and how it’s done. I believe that you already had an org member Robeson. So in addition to the more relaxed atmosphere, discussion, my recommendation on that is maybe alternate, odd, even months, one to be similar toward you follow the agenda and get through the business it needs to go forward. And then the even life would be kind of akin to the city council study session that’s more relaxed, and you can have those discussions, if you will. And that would be my recommendation and approach to betting the bylaws. But what I would like to do is next week to send you all the current bylaws and let you start looking at those and thinking about those if you’d already have
Unknown Speaker 32:31
I would certainly support having a bylaw discussion on a future agenda and appreciate sending it out to everybody. Mr. Jacobson.
Unknown Speaker 32:41
In that regard, David, almost every email we get from you has a caveat at the bottom to only get back to you, not fellow members of the advisory board. And I think it’s done too much. If we’re talking about openness and congeniality, etc, etc. I, to me that makes it make you self important, without input that others can be aware of. And I think I would recommend that you much more carefully. Put that permission at the bottom of your emails.
Unknown Speaker 33:21
Okay, I apologize if it came across that way, or remember Jacobson, that’s referring to the public records and public open meeting halls. The reason I put that is not for self importance, or to direct the discussion is that if I have more than two, three, if I have more than three members discussing a topic, even via email, or electronic communication is considered a walking quorum. And it’s a violation of the law. And so then we need to actually organize a meeting. If we need to call a special meeting to discuss something between meetings, then that’s what we have to do. But the point of me putting that in there is just as a reminder to everyone, so that if you reply to everybody, then we just discussed airport business across a quorum. And that’s the point of me putting that in there has nothing to do with me trying to control anything. Sure.
Unknown Speaker 34:23
Any other discussion on future agenda topics? Hearing none, were relatively quiet a bunch of this evening. will open up final public invited to be heard. Would anyone like to speak Connor?
Unknown Speaker 34:45
Since we have not amended the bylaws yet? We’re still three minutes. Please start name and address.
Unknown Speaker 34:52
JOHN Grunsfeld and I’m building 11 hangar 10. The Longmont airport for endless frontier associates my consulting business, which does consult on airport affairs. But first of all, I’m going to log your discussion about outsourcing division, you can’t outsource division for too long. My airport on one airport is not a business. It’s a community airport. And so I think, you know, you need to be integrally engaged. And I think you need to provide to a consultant, you know, a lot of the vision, if not all of it, and then they can tell you is that reasonable? I don’t think we you should think of inauthenticity that even if the city does, I mean, you were given merchant orders. We shouldn’t think of the airport as a business and how do we maximize the business, we should think about how do we maximize the opportunities for the community, including the business aspects. consultants can help you implement that vision. And that’s a good use of the consultants to put it into the form that the FAA, you know, will digest at the end once you’ve agreed, and once the community and the City Council agrees that the vision was what you want. Generally speaking, my experience with these consultants is it’s a retrospective view, they’re going to look at how airports have operated in the past. That’s not what I think that’s not my vision of the Longmont airport, nor do I think it should be yours. It’s also time to be relatively aggressive. I just got back from airventure a couple of weeks ago, and I’ve seen what the future of aviation looks like and it’s not what we’re doing now. You’ve heard that from me previously. So I did prepare a few recommendations for you that I would recommend. And if you want copies, I have copies but along along those lines, I think the city council should make a practical proclamation demand sprint airport will achieve net zero carbon operations by 2030. That’s something you can feed into the consultants of city council so work with City Planning Board to rezone or create an ordinance that all new construction on the airport shell the maximum extent possible generate through solar wind or geothermal, electricity and heating for the building consistent with other City Airport regulations. Of course, this has to go through public review to the shell direct the airport and city planning work to move development from using natural gas. Obviously it’s a carbon fuel on airport property. That’s totally reasonable request. The airport shall reserve high priority areas. A map see the map until the amendment of the master plan is complete. And a new airport improvement plan is submitted to the FDA and the board recommendations are in place. The airport advisory board working on LogMeIn Economic Development Authority to develop and release mattify. Seeking ideas for airport building community meeting space restaurant space to occupy the property on the corner of airport run the main entrance and the airport manager expeditiously with help from a small team develop grant applications for infrastructure development, including electric aircraft charging, and solar power shape ports and green airport building as part of the 2.5 billion that will be appropriated in the bill when it passes for general aviation airport development. There’s a picture of how much time do I have? Two seconds. Thank you for all your hard work on behalf of the London airport.
Unknown Speaker 38:09
Thank you, Mr. grantville. Would anyone else like to speak? Seeing none. org Council staff comments, board members. Any other comments this evening. is a very quiet group tonight. No city council representative present
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