Parks and Recreation Advisory Board – February 2023

Video Description:
Parks and Recreation Advisory Board – February 2023

Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

Read along below:

Unknown Speaker 0:00
I like to call this meeting of the recreation advisory board recorder and because start with a roll call here,

Unknown Speaker 0:13
Scott Coleman here,

Unknown Speaker 0:16
Thomas Davis. Paige Lewis. Yeah. Sam moody. Nicholas. Yes. Dan Olsen here. Jim waters is not here.

Unknown Speaker 0:39
Yeah, we’ll move to approve the agenda.

Unknown Speaker 0:42
Are there any

Unknown Speaker 0:43
amendments to the agenda?

Unknown Speaker 0:50
If there aren’t any. I appreciate a motion to approve the agenda.

Unknown Speaker 0:55
I move to approve the agenda as read.

Unknown Speaker 1:00
All those in favor? Okay. The agenda is approved. So let’s move to the previous month’s

Unknown Speaker 1:09
minutes. Does anyone have any post edits to a previous announcements?

Unknown Speaker 1:20
Not again, we can take a motion to approve the minutes as written

Unknown Speaker 1:25
for the minutes as written.

Unknown Speaker 1:36
So we’ll go next to public invited speaker. Do you have a side? Note? Does anyone want to see?

Unknown Speaker 1:51
And did you have something you want?

Unknown Speaker 2:00

Unknown Speaker 2:06
Nathan is thigh here? Okay.

Unknown Speaker 2:12
next agenda item is all business interest that is the button rack management.

Unknown Speaker 2:20
Okay. Does everyone was able to open the documents? So what I have is a presentation that has a lot of slides in it. But I’m gonna go through it rather fast because it’s similar to what’s in the plan. It’s kind of just a summary of what’s in the plan. So that’s what we’re going to do first.

Unknown Speaker 2:44
What is our input? Or what do you expect from us

Unknown Speaker 2:49
in conversation? And

Unknown Speaker 2:53
is this going to seek counsel? When does a waterboard see you already

Unknown Speaker 2:59
know you’re the first to see it. Sustainability board is this Wednesday, but however, they’re not because their request was a letter of support. So they will or won’t sign a letter of support?

Unknown Speaker 3:13
Request, the city council sustainable

Unknown Speaker 3:15
sustainability advisory board meets this Wednesday. They don’t have time for me to be here and do what I’m doing right now watch this, and then all of that. So they’ve requested that they will show their support with that in the button rock management plan, adopting Council adopting it by signing a letter of support.

Unknown Speaker 3:36
You should we be thinking along those lines? Well,

Unknown Speaker 3:40
I mean, no, because your recommendations are going to come after your discussion and you know, so you can do what you always do, they just don’t have time for this piece. And for me to come and spend 20 minutes in their meetings with too many other topics. That’s why it’s a different a little bit of format, but then waterboard needs on the 27th It’ll be the same format as we’re doing here.

Unknown Speaker 4:00
So if you want to take action to recommend it go to council and be approved you can certainly do that tonight and I think that’s what some

Unknown Speaker 4:09
was asking. Do you say we like it or we like it except for this part or you hate it or whatever. Thank you though, just making sure we’re all on track. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 4:22
Okay. Ready?

Unknown Speaker 4:26
Okay, so this presentation is 40 slides broken down into these five parts. First, the purpose and the need for the button rock management then where’s button rock? Here’s Boulder County to the Longmont and purple to the lines and Blue Button rock is up there in the foothills most apartments in red. Here is button rock in terms of what surrounding ownership is so much a Forest Service around the West we’ve got some Boulder County property including Hall Ranch, the right and then private, private properties up to the central North. button that preserve is unique in our our city portfolio, it’s the only preserve that we have, and it houses the majority of our municipal water supply. So through the button route planning process, staff consultants after the data was collected, developed this text, this is the text that stamp hosts that city council will codified in the button rock code. I can read it, read it. I’ll read it. This is the only slide I’ll read to you to protect, preserve, conserve, restore, and sustain button rock preserves municipal drinking water storage and supply native ecosystems, wildlife habitat and cultural resources in perpetuity. To support preserve management and enhance the ecological function of button rock preserves natural systems, as well as the Greater St. Vrain Creek watershed in which it resides. And to prescribe areas suitable for passive use, in addition to areas close for resource protection, facility protection or public safety. It’s important to read it because it’s it’s kind of the theme of the rest of this and if you can keep this in mind when we get deeper in. So

Unknown Speaker 6:36
can I interrupt for just a second when we took the button Rock Tour? Four years ago, five years? 2019? Yeah, I thought they told us that part of the deal with the dam designer somebody was that recreation had to happen. That we can’t just say no to recreation. It’s minus

Unknown Speaker 7:00
the city of Longmont promised when we opened up the preserve as part of the bond issue or it’s not it’s not officially it. That’s how I felt we

Unknown Speaker 7:11
were told. Oh, I can were there. Yeah, it was there. Bagley was there and

Unknown Speaker 7:17
said that. Yeah, but not one button rock was filled, we actually had to take a bond out to pay for Right, right. And at the time of issuing the bonds, the probably one of the biggest one large selling point for the citizens under the water supply was that it would always be open to the citizens along month for passing recreation. Okay. And that’s why we’re here today because we have to define

Unknown Speaker 7:45
the rest of the board here that that we can’t just say no more recreation, because that would be an answer. Right would preserve the lake even better,

Unknown Speaker 7:52
you know, city, Boulder, there are a lot of places

Unknown Speaker 7:55
out there, way up on them by they are all down. Okay, sorry. I just wanted to make sure we understood that.

Unknown Speaker 8:02
Yeah. So still kind of orienting you here. This this plan work to incorporate some specific goals in city council’s climate emergency resolution in their work plan from 2020 as well as in envision Longmont, which is our city’s comprehensive plan for 2016. Specifically, the city council climate emergency resolution, it touches on areas of adaptation and resilience. So there is a natural disaster resiliency, forest health, aquatic and riparian recovery, health and transportation in the work plan will be to, to protect and respect our natural and public amenities and from a comprehensive vision plan for GDP five responsible stewardship for our resources. Why now, because we didn’t do it before. Because we need this comprehensive plan and this data gathering and to have gone through this long process to have developed that purpose that we just read, the goals we have for the Preserve, we’re now you know, they’re they’ve come into clear focus throughout this process. We understand better what resources we have that but not with something that we didn’t have, because this is our first comprehensive baseline data collection. Of course, there have been other efforts, various wildlife studies that were mentioned in the plan. Even back in the 60s, the Forest Stewardship plan, there was a lot of data associated with that, but this is comprehensive. We’re talking about education, wildlife, everything. We identified where our data gaps because this is just a baseline plan. You know this, we’re getting a lot from this, but we still have work to do after this. And it’s helped In us clarify what management and enforcement actions and recommendations we have. So now just plan development. How did we get here? We had a lot of partners. We had a lot of agency partners that sat on the technical advisory committee throughout the process, as well as consultants that worked on the plan. So Colorado Natural Heritage Program was in charge of all the botany and zoology, data collection, river restoration, all the hydrology data collection, and the HM design was did facilitation and helped us run the public meetings, did some on the ground data collection, and helped put together the plan. So how was the public involved? Throughout this process? We ran the Karen forgotten rock preserve website page. Did any of you guys ever see that? We had several articles throughout the process in the low light times call. We conducted four different public surveys. And I’ll give that detail later. We have three public meetings. This is a picture from the Trout Unlimited meeting here. And we updated three different advisory boards. It will be five different times when this month is out. And City Council eight times this month, when next month is here’s the timeline, all the things that went into the plan. Most of the most of the heavy scientific data collection happened in 2019. But more data collection, more GIS and other things occurred throughout these other years. And then writing the plan was in 2022 and 2023. Okay, so these are the goals that came out of this planning process 10 goals, I’m not going to read these because they’re in the plan. But the purpose informed the goals which inform the management objectives or actions and so it’s it’s a circular process, they all inform each other and so in terms of baseline data, we collected botany and zoology data rather CHP did. Flora, rare plants, plant communities noxious weeds, wildlife and critical wildlife habitat, restoration stream channel into Team habitat, the physical habitat of what’s going on in the preserve gulches and the tributaries to the North St. Green streamside corridor, habitat and health. Other baseline data collection, roads and trails mapping, sign inventory was conducted cultural resources, infrastructure conditions, priorities, visitor use data was collected.

Unknown Speaker 13:08
And so counting visitors, so this is, so now I’m public engagement. Okay. So, in the past, we didn’t have a automated way to count visitors that began in 2018. So you and we also begin counting vehicles soon to see in the far right vehicles start in 2018. And that is because that’s how we used to do when we began automating it with this system. Before that, and in the early years, it was Ranger estimates.

Unknown Speaker 13:48
Were 2022 numbers make me suspect all the other numbers. Are you telling me that only 500 cars came in with two people? Because no cars came in on their own? Let’s assume that’s true. But there’s only 500 More people than vehicles.

Unknown Speaker 14:07
I checked that three times price do you have any insight yet?

Unknown Speaker 14:13
Price as a senior watershed ranger in charge of day to day operations of button AK traffic’s counters are kind of a regional best practice most common infrared counter for counting public visitors to public lands. Unfortunately, they sometimes have technical issues. So over the last year we’ve been working on with the traffic’s company to resolve some irregularities in the counting. So I don’t have high confidence in that vehicles counselor

Unknown Speaker 14:42
that’s going to ask is the people count good or the vehicle count good,

Unknown Speaker 14:46
which both of them are? If you look at the date that day by day data, there are periods of time where we’ve had technical issues. I’d say prior to this year, it’s reliable in terms of the vehicle count number something that you do see that’s interesting is during 2020 and 2020, a lot of resurgence COVID that the number was as high as it as it’s shown. We were averaging closer to one vehicle per person.

Unknown Speaker 15:15
Oh, yeah, probably a lot was full. Well, I guess that might come up.

Unknown Speaker 15:20
Well, one thing that I’ve noticed, when I dive into the traffic’s data is a month to month, you might see like, a month is blanked out because something happened, did that happen in 2022 that we’ve looked at or that we know of,

Unknown Speaker 15:35
like late 20s, going to the traffic software is having an asterisk

Unknown Speaker 15:39

Unknown Speaker 15:40
something here, something different with

Unknown Speaker 15:42
that number explanatory note something. Otherwise, it’s like, wow, that can’t be right.

Unknown Speaker 15:51
And then one more note on that this is total vehicle traffic on a public roadway. So it’s not we have private land, located above our gate, as well as contractors, staff, etc. So it’s not just showing visitor counts. So every time a resident drags in and out to get water for an engineer comes up work on the dam, they’re counted as

Unknown Speaker 16:11
well. Is that a person to?

Unknown Speaker 16:14
Power? That’s electromagnetic

Unknown Speaker 16:17
words. Yes. You encounter

Unknown Speaker 16:19
people are walking on.

Unknown Speaker 16:22
Ah, okay. Wow. So that’s tricky.

Unknown Speaker 16:28
It’s a good note. Thanks. Okay. So for surveys that we did public survey number one to place in 2018, between February and August. So we’re just finding here is that at that time that you got presented people did not bring a dog. This is also during the same time that we went to council and they put in the temporary rule that said one dog on a leash per person with a pickup bag. Most people come to hike by far. And most people visit the preserve multiple times a year 426 People took our first survey. Our second survey was that same year and in the fall, so what school was back in session. And 980 300 people participated in that 167 People 67% Bring one to two people in their vehicle 61% would still visit if we charged a fee. 70% are aware that button rock is our drinking water source or large portion of our drinking water source. 82% agree that prescribed fires are an important forest health management tool 81% prefer to encounter fewer than 25 people when they’re out enjoying the preserve.

Unknown Speaker 18:03
19% don’t mind more than Alright, public the survey number three was in April in May 2020. So that’s right at the beginning of the pandemic 831 people participated. Most people disagree with eliminating the fishing permit. And most people say they’re in support of implementing a weekend daily vehicle pass. And most people agree with a fee during busy summer months. Also, survey number three. In the middle there, you’ll see just how the comments that we received are categorized lots of comments about dogs hiking fees, and then fewer comments on parking trails, fishing bikes, 131 comments total. Most people would not write a shuttle however, we took this at the beginning of the pandemic. So it may be if we took this again, would they have a different response? We didn’t know what was going on with the pandemic, you know, would you want to be in a shuttle when you don’t know what’s going on with the pandemic? Most people disagree with no dogs. These are this is a snapshot of comments. Just this is also in the appendices of the plan

Unknown Speaker 19:31
a word cloud I suspect

Unknown Speaker 19:39
the consultants did do a word cloud for me but it was not. And you’ll see it later for survey for and there’s different sizes for different things. And I said does that, you know, basically important to know it’s not. It’s not weighted? weighted. There’s no point this is not a word cloud Okay, so public servants are placed in early 2022. And this is it focused on our code updates. So the things that staff, it wants to recommend that we update in the code. So we want to have a standalone button rock preserve code, where people can go and find everything in one place. And they’re not going all over the place in our municipal code pages. So we asked the public about that. And we want to include these topics. We had 215 People take this survey. And the people who took the survey agreed with 13 Out of the 14 recommendations that we proposed, there was 490 written comments on this mostly about dogs access water and trails. And then with dogs 120 People definitely disagreed with a dog oratorian 73 People definitely agree. There’s my noun word clouds word cloud. Again, this is just this is just comments.

Unknown Speaker 21:22
Scientific data results into ology. So Preserve is an extremely bio diverse place that preserves preserve, you know, what we found out is is pretty incredible. You know, and these are just from seeing HP being out there for one short season, not, not two seasons, three seasons, which would would have been even better. So this is just a very brief snapshot, a very baseline, but 349 plant taxa. So that’s 349 different native plants or 349 plant species that they encountered 85% of those were native plants. And the Preserve is significant for it’s that diversity. So there are eight species of bat filed in the preserve that’s 19 total for the state. So that’s almost half of the biodiversity of bats for the state just in our just in our city Preserve. Or those are rare bats, so CPW, Colorado Parks and Wildlife in their state wildlife action plan from 2015. Consider four of the bats that are founded that preserve species of greatest conservation mean. CHP observed 65 different bird species while they were out during the summer season of 2019. But they also utilized Eber data, which is citizen science data, dating back to 1989. And CHPs data came in in 2019. And so this has been updated since by our wildlife biologist so they have had 107 It’s been it’s 117 Now for the preserve. 28 mammal species were observed in that short summer, seven amphibians and reptiles including Western milk snake, which is another species of greatest conservation need for CPW. Dogs and non non native animals in the preserve and the impacts they have, they can affect the water the wildlife. You know, why dogs are preserved and not in other watersheds? What can we do to manage for present day visitor conditions, you’ve got to find a balance so dogs are protected preserve the empirical data shows dogs have a chase instinct they can displace native wildlife which means that the compared carrying capacity of the preserves 2600 acres for holding native wildlife can go down. No because they’ll avoid areas and things. It can stress them can stress them at important times like nesting season and things like that. And it can cause direct and indirect wildlife mortality. So this is from one specific study that was done in 2008. I pulled it out because it’s from it’s from nearby so it’s a local study in the same exact foothills habitat that button rocker Curzon and you know mule deer and this small mammals that are in this study exist in button dock and so this this study shows that when human type alone, it has one impact of you know, out from the trail without from the trail on wildlife, but when dogs are there and increases, so it’s just showing In this study how how mule deer when dogs are present, the impact on mule deer is greater. Small mammals, great dogs,

Unknown Speaker 25:10
leashed dogs.

Unknown Speaker 25:11
This is leashed dogs, I think Okay, remember no. It’s not enough for so because

Unknown Speaker 25:28
I want this slide. What’s this?

Unknown Speaker 25:32
This is not in your package.

Unknown Speaker 25:33
This is not that this slideshow is not the baggage.

Unknown Speaker 25:36
That particular

Unknown Speaker 25:38
a great project. This is a grasp from a person study. So this person is cited like

Unknown Speaker 25:44
oh, it just means it’s new to us. It wasn’t in this package in the appendix.

Unknown Speaker 25:50
I read a lot he’s cited in the appendices. So everything is hyperlinked. So if you go to 2008, you can get to the study. of dog waste on water, it can. So what we have at the Preserve is sourcewater. Right? It’s before it goes down the hill and goes to water treatment, but it’s its source water. And we have aquatic and riparian habitat, we have a recreational fisheries there. And we have native fish, and native macro invertebrates and other insects occurring there. So according to the empirical data, it does have dog waste, both feces and urine has negative impacts on algae growth, biodiversity of native aquatic and riparian species, including fish, and then other soils. It’s novel inputs of nitrogen and phosphorus. So that can increase leads and decrease native plant by like biodiversity. And it also adds you know, harmful bacteria and nutrients when those inputs occurred. And then these are not from the empirical data. These are just things you know, during this plan, we’ve had staffing changes at but not preserve, and the former ranger had different practices than we do now. You know, other resource protection items come more to the forefront these days. And so, well, our former Ranger did spend a good amount of time cleaning up dog waste, or like Rangers don’t prioritize that. And people leave dog waste on bag bags on the trail elsewhere in the water. So that’s just a change. Something to consider is ease of enforcement, you know, and the time spent on dogs. And like we already discussed, that Dan brought up other source watersheds and what do they do? Do they alone, dogs, and why not. And so there’s just some evidence around us, other people having thought through this issue. We do city water sampling up at the Preserve on our source water, but dogs are not dogs and E. Coli in any of that kind of stuff is not something that’s sample for. That’s not That’s not a purpose of the program. And then the neighbor and this was in the plan. If you remember, we’re neighbor to Boulder County and whole ranch and they don’t allow dogs on haul Ranch, they went through their own process. And so they have put up signs because we have a connecting trail. And we have dogs on our preserves, and they put up signs to try and alert the public because they have had some trouble with people crossing the boundary. And here’s examples of some of the dog literature that went into this empirical data. It’s all in the references. And then on to our recommendations. You’ll recognize these symbols here from the plan. If you read chapter four, where we took our management actions and we prioritize them in terms of timeframe and priority to timeframe, short term which is less than three years, mid term, which is five years or less and long term which is five years or more and then priority one two or three all important but you know we have to prioritize things that we think we can get done first oh and then ongoing some things will be ongoing actions so this is just a snapshot from all the categories in water resources vegetation, forestry, wildlife. cultural education visitor use operations. These are a snapshot of our management action priorities. And in the background is a picture from one of our wildlife cameras.

Unknown Speaker 30:18
As a mama bear in a video taken on July 2001, and then code updates. We talked a little bit about it when we were going through those survey information.

Unknown Speaker 30:39
So our recommendation would be to codify that purpose that I read out at the beginning, and various various regulation updates, that the preserve needs to be in line with kind of what we’re seeing in terms of present day visitor use, some of those things are prohibited fires, that’s not in our code, that’s an important for safety. prohibit smoking, because that could be a fire hazard, things like that. So

Unknown Speaker 31:12
that’s prohibited domestic animals and dogs.

Unknown Speaker 31:16
That’s not your thing. Number seven be is continue to monitor dog use and compliance.

Unknown Speaker 31:24
Well, this is a draft. So we have to say something in the draft. But when we get counsels final, say on what we’re presenting, which is, then things like that will have to change.

Unknown Speaker 31:40
I guess I’m confused. Is that the plan? Was this the plan? That’s the plan? Well, I’m there. So what, why did you write it this way? In this 160? Page?

Unknown Speaker 31:51
I shouldn’t I shouldn’t have. I’m taking notes.

Unknown Speaker 31:55
The page

Unknown Speaker 31:59
numbers table. Look at that data. And that item in the management actions.

Unknown Speaker 32:07
Yeah, I was surprised to see that because

Unknown Speaker 32:09
it is there all over the plan. It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s stated explicitly

Unknown Speaker 32:17
water and natural resources, staff recommending changing Section G of the code to prohibit domestic dogs. But then later on, you said monitor, so I

Unknown Speaker 32:28
refused me, I would just imagine that, even if you prohibit it, you still have to monitor people are gonna bring your dogs and you still have to monitor that. So that that’s gonna be ongoing, whether they’re prohibited or not, you’re gonna have to monitor whether there’s fires, because you’re right,

Unknown Speaker 32:43
me, you’re both right, actually. Because I would, I would update that language no matter what. And it was similar to when we put when City Council put in the temporary dog rule in 2019, where we had a period where it was an educational time where we weren’t doing any sort of actual enforcement, other than education, you know, no ticketing, things like that. There was a period of time where we did that was kind of phased in stage. So you’re both right. If that makes sense.

Unknown Speaker 33:18
I think you’re gonna get a lot of flack. But it looks like you’re slipping it in better than this did. And I don’t mean that in a mean way. But

Unknown Speaker 33:28
it’s not meant to be slipped in, it’s meant to be clear. And I agree with you that that piece of the table could be updated to be more clear,

Unknown Speaker 33:37
because earlier you said 55% of the people don’t want dogs, but the other 45%, which a lot of people do want, right, the other

Unknown Speaker 33:51
70% were really thought of not being able to bring your dog but whatever.

Unknown Speaker 33:57
Okay, so we’re almost done just in the very last line. And that is that we are recommending management zones for the preserve. So you saw that in the document. This goes along with present day management conditions. And this is based on the data that was collected and publicly available, publicly available state data that comes from CPW, that helped us develop and draw these management zones that we recommend. I couldn’t

Unknown Speaker 34:31
tell is this new, or is this a change zone? I think the zone id is great. This is brand new, okay. It wasn’t obvious. So there’s another note for you. That wasn’t obvious. I couldn’t tell Is this a change from before? But the fact that it’s new is that’s good. You should say that.

Unknown Speaker 34:49
In there, I do say things that we recommend, and that things that were data was collected during the plan but are not being recommended as updates. Like for me Since we talked about the shuttle, and the survey that happened one, two months into the beginning of the COVID. outbreak, that’s not, that’s not a current recommendation. That’s something that we gathered data on. And there is language in there about how these are, you know, data points point, right, not making it into the recommendations. I just

Unknown Speaker 35:23
meant the zone in particular, I thought there must already be zones. And this was an update to them. That’s what I was confused about. So you should just say that, you know, as part of those management, that would be my thoughts. Sorry.

Unknown Speaker 35:35
Okay. Just remember, again, that there has been no button management plan previously, this is our initial so there is no zones, there is no nothing.

Unknown Speaker 35:43
Well, but there’s something because right now, one dog on a leash ordinances, right, overall plan. Okay, well, maybe that’s the way to say it, then, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 35:53
there are ordinances, but the ordinances need updating. And so, and, in in those, we, you know, one of the ordinances deals with closures, which would be certain areas that are closed per these management zones, which are adaptable, because they are based on the data that we currently have the best available scientific data that we have today. But we want to keep collecting data and visitor use may continue to evolve. So we want to present this now, but let you know that they’re adaptable. Hey,

Unknown Speaker 36:41
thank you. I noticed that I think you were starting this right when I first got on the board, or maybe you just barely starting. So it’s great to see it.

Unknown Speaker 36:49
I mean, amazing.

Unknown Speaker 36:53
Thank you for all your work. I

Unknown Speaker 36:57
really appreciate it. I just want to give a little piece here. You saw the all the agencies involved. We sell consultants involved. They all through and really great pieces of work. Danielle really did a lot to make this one comprehensive document. I think sometimes it comes together. Danielle has spent an immense time on time. Make sure all that information came together in one.

Unknown Speaker 37:18
It’s amazing. I mean, it’s a lot of stuff.

Unknown Speaker 37:20
We have interest readers. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 37:24
question over there from the public?

Unknown Speaker 37:28
pretty rapid slide 27 I think is 27.

Unknown Speaker 37:33
No watch. So you don’t get dizzy?

Unknown Speaker 37:42
No kicked on.

Unknown Speaker 37:44
Writing the public service. What do you want? What are you looking for?

Unknown Speaker 37:49
The very bottom one you make the public wanted organized sports button wrong.

Unknown Speaker 37:57
What? No, there’s no cold language dealing with organized sports or their language needed to be updated to be clear for specifically the preserve because we because remember, we’re trying to ask for a standalone button rock code section 13 2006. Oh. So you can go here and you can read everything you need to know. Can you do organized sports in button rock? It’s somewhere else in the code. And it’s it’s not clear what happens at the Preserve then there’s language specific to the Preserve in this section

Unknown Speaker 38:32
combat. I understand the way this is slide presented. It makes it sound as though to be included in a state allows organized sports. We will. Yeah, right.

Unknown Speaker 38:52
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, then. organized sports prohibited.

Unknown Speaker 39:00
sections, sections that address bing bing, bing, bing. You know what? Yeah, right. Leave it open. It’s what’s decided. That explaining it makes perfect sense.

Unknown Speaker 39:12
Yeah. Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 39:16
you saw that screen?

Unknown Speaker 39:24
There was one more there. Yeah. I’ll come back to you. Okay. It’s the same, the same,

Unknown Speaker 39:29
different. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 39:31
let’s just check in with the board members.

Unknown Speaker 39:34
Anyone who’s covering this? Well, I do have questions. What’s the probability of expanding the reservoir? Nature can

Unknown Speaker 39:48
possibly a flood of tourists

Unknown Speaker 39:50
expanding the reservoir in the future?

Unknown Speaker 39:56
Very likely, but not for very long time. So can you some more recent manager, it is one of our future water supply projects if needed in the future. Actually, our current project that we’re doing right now is Jimmy Hill reservoir, which is moving up firming projects based on current comprehensive planning should take us to build out of the community action called planarizing. We have other projects in the works to Union enlargement, Union Public pipeline Bunraku, enlargement of about price reservoir is kind of the third tier of all those projects. Also, because of his cost, compared to enlarging union with pump by pipeline, it’s the most expensive, any of those projects, we maintain diligence on it. And you can’t predict the future. There’s lots of lots of things that could have occurred in the water ramp. So we may need to

Unknown Speaker 41:11
the other one was pumped back, pump,

Unknown Speaker 41:14
that cold union reservoir pump back pipeline that’s installing the pump gainers, or the pump the water back to the west region. Questions.

Unknown Speaker 41:32
A couple of questions I have it is really from a public perspective is I was not able to the general member of the public see this document and the draft document is that I look all over the city’s website today for a link to look at the plan is I couldn’t find one anywhere. Is that available for the public to to review the plan and to provide comment.

Unknown Speaker 41:59
It’s it’s not handy. It’s still being formatted. So what the board read, double spaced single page. But no, it’s not currently on the website with a link

Unknown Speaker 42:19
and or an opportunity for the public to make comments. And then my other question is, obviously, you’re getting comments from the Parks Board today. Well, sustainability board or what’s the process by which the sustainability board and the Water Board sees the parks boards comments is they’re reviewing the plan.

Unknown Speaker 42:38
So I’m appearing on the sustainability board on Wednesday, and I will answer their questions. But I will have a couple of minutes to talk about this item. But I can mention it. Then, with waterboard, I can add it to this possibly because there will have been two boards before that time, and there’s a little bit more time. So it can be included in the slideshow. So it’s in a written format when it’s documented.

Unknown Speaker 43:16
Just remember that the comments have come from Parks Board come through a vote of the members of Parks Board. And so I think those can be communicated whatever those comments may be to other boards and your council. But the public process is going to these three public meetings in the northern city council that is the public process for this after all of the other processes you engage on. So I think it’s I think it’s there, the public opportunity for comment is definitely there.

Unknown Speaker 43:54
So the part that gets me Of course, the dawn restriction domesticating restriction, fortunately, is that no point in presentation, was there an acute problem presented, right is data in general about domestic animals in general, the data was on other studies, I don’t the water data doesn’t collect domestic animal E. coli Ecoli problems, it can’t possibly be an issue because of course, there’s a lot of mammals that contribute to people chloroform. So I don’t understand what the specific problem is, it wasn’t really presented is that that mitigates on that then it will then create now a problem because all of your data so far and all the surveys are contradictory to what the public wants in that so you never created a natural use

Unknown Speaker 44:52
problem. So, so to address that, and kind of go back to what pages everybody yours been here for a different amount of time. We started this process back in 2018. And came to city council at various interim points. And when we first presented this plan and this need and can we, you know, to enter into an IGA to have a Colorado Natural Heritage Program, collect the botany and zoology, we did present an acute problem that we wanted to learn more about. And that is why City Council enacted a temporary dog rule that is pending the final results of this plan. And they wanted at the time staff to make more clear recommendation is to just make a recommendation for them. And then they would they could just vote on that. But we said at the time, we weren’t comfortable doing that we really wanted to collect the data and see and have this whole process occurred before making a recommendation. And so now that the process has occurred, we are recommending prohibiting dogs because of the increase in visitor use the increase in dogs, the fact that it’s predicted preserve the known data affects on wildlife, water, soil. biodiversity. I don’t know if that got out your question. But I mean, when when you said that what I think is? Oh, yes, I was part of something that that you didn’t maybe see because it occurred back in 2019.

Unknown Speaker 46:38
Right, but but you still also don’t have a time phase. Study, right? You don’t have beef when it was unlimited dogs or whatever it was, it was before, to one that is one dog, what the impact differences are also just presenting data that’s a mix of both worlds, is also doesn’t show, well, maybe it dropped off 90 90% problem may have dropped off.

Unknown Speaker 47:00
And that wasn’t part of the scope of this plant comes to the forefront and the emotional forefront is dogs. People want to know what’s going on dogs, but it’s one data point of all the data points. So the reason I presented all the data points is because it’s not, it’s not something that I necessarily meant to highlight in the data. And as you say, in this baseline data collection study, we did not do any specific study on dogs, per se, there was a little Ranger data collection via cameras to look at compliance and that was in there. But the reason we didn’t highlight dogs is because it’s one of many things that we’re recommending. Right. And I mean, I think,

Unknown Speaker 47:53
speaking for myself, I mean, I do think this is an incredibly unique place. And the fact that we have this kind of a nature preserve in my mind, and that it is a place where wildlife can be and where we can have our natural water quality protected. I mean, I totally hear that dogs is something that you know, people value, people want places to take them. But I feel like this is a really unique location. And the previous reasons that it was established were for biodiversity and water protection. And recreation, but passive recreation. And I feel like those things have been honored in this. I mean, I feel like they’ve done a good job of understanding what the incredibly rich biodiversity is in its place. And the impacts of dogs in watersheds are coming. There’s lots and lots of studies about that. So I, you know, I personally, am very supportive of this, these recommendations, and I would love for us to be able to express that support.

Unknown Speaker 48:56
And I will I’m not gonna interrupt.

Unknown Speaker 49:00
Someone else have a question?

Unknown Speaker 49:02
I was keeping up the next question, but I didn’t mean to interrupt you. I just wanted

Unknown Speaker 49:05
to say that,

Unknown Speaker 49:07
you know, maybe, having given this presentation, I didn’t highlight, you know, all throughout and I put this visual here, of, we want to protect the watershed, we want to protect the Preserve, and then a tertiary goal is to allow for passive recreation. So, yes, we’re never, you know, it’s never not part of this plan. It’s not any any results anywhere. Let’s let’s close the preserve to the public. That’s That’s not it. But if, if this piece if the recreation piece of what we’re finding is visitor use is going way up and the Preserve is being affected or could be affected as a result with all of these things that we know now about the biodiversity, then that triangle that we were focusing on with recommendations and code updates.

Unknown Speaker 50:03
Daniel. So you had one note? Again, I kind of worked with the group watching how we put together I really do think is that that upside down triangle is really how do we take that lowest level piece of recreation piece in anything on smooth graphics that we can protect a watershed and protect the preserve that I don’t think we’re trying to address an acute issue there. So it says we know that we see increased use along the front range from all use groups that in an overall concept of comprehensive plan that don’t use as a piece of it, it wasn’t really trying to address any ups, but really to make sure we’re hitting those top pieces. How do we then insert that recreational piece that we throughout this process is one of the big pieces want to make sure that we had that included in a way that we think going forward, we can preserve all those higher chair chair uses. So I You’re right, I don’t think it was addressed tonight that I mentioned that was addressed acid condition. But what if we want to weigh in to how we manage or preserve

Unknown Speaker 51:06
it support interested in in expressing support for this to city council? So

Unknown Speaker 51:16
I had a comment and a question. And one of the main key points in my comment is, first of all, as a responsible, so called responsible dog owner, certainly very disappointed about that, to hear about this. But I also going to button rocking and seeing other dog owners and are not responsible, really frustrating. And what are they doing? And, you know, that just that’s just the hard truth of what it is. And so with the interim changes, it remains with that for them to to to one dog, I feel dogs, I had to just adapt that to that new change. And, you know, I’m still going on, I’m still recreating, I’m still finding it. You know, it’s not like, you know, it wasn’t the end of the world for me. And I think it is acceptable. And acknowledging how important this Preserve is for our for our city, you have to really, you know, sit back, like how agreeing that the procreation has to Casta is important, but mean priorities right. So that’s my comment. My question is on the on the plan, I’m reading one on the first considerations, and I want to tease out a little bit. So it says a prohibition on dogs is simpler. And of course, the next approach is knowing jobs in certain areas, channels, billing and others. It provides one clear, easy default policy that does not require future educational campaigns, your map canvas, something that’s very intuitive, it makes makes total sense. My question is, is that? Is that based off of like, you know, advice or recommendations from a consultant? Or is that just based on our own intuition? Is there is there science to kind of support that?

Unknown Speaker 52:48
Do you want me to take that? Or do you

Unknown Speaker 52:51
speak to that? I guess, kind of both. If you look at human dimensions, Natural Resources Research, there is a body of research that speaks to kind of the limits of visitors ability to digest only a certain amount of information. We look at trailhead, signage, and how it’s designed, how many visual messages can you digest and remember, as a visitor, and does that fade over time. So there is a certain amount of research done on it. Human Dimensions, natural resources is an urgent field. So there’s it’s not as deep of a research field is like biology, botany, whatever, from Ranger perspective, and 10 years of being a ranger. And thinking about Bunraku, specifically, and thinking about kind of our values when it comes to taking an inclusive approach to public visitation to button rock and thinking about when we’re communicating, and universal symbols, bilingual signage, all that we have all these things that we’re trying to stay on top of communicating with the public, and helping them to make the right decision. So it’s not just me going out there with a blunt instrument and writing a ticket. The simpler that message is, the more straightforward it is, the easier it is to follow. That’s kind of what that’s speaking to expression. That’s, again, that ties back for me, at least to the inclusivity piece of wanting to make sure that it’s the easiest message for people to understand when it comes to voting or if they have a positive experience that they’re not walking away with a couple $100 Fine, that they’re finding it to be an easy message to digest. As opposed to having nuance regulation with multiple zones throughout the preserve where you can have can have dogs not have dogs. If you look at human dimensions and research research that has been done locally, city will open space and Mountain Parks being one example. Compliance with DoD regulations goes down when there’s temporal regulation. So by me what I mean by that is certain days of the week, right certain times of the year, when you can have harvester you can have them off leash and under voice and say controlled or you have to have them on leashes that varies through time, people’s compliance goes down. And that’s shown in the research. So again, it’s kind of both anecdotal and research based. It’s helpful. Thanks.

Unknown Speaker 55:21
Well, as a Recreation, Parks and Recreation board member, I feel obligated to represent recreation people 45%, who love dogs in particular. And so, I haven’t been in a year my dog got old can’t anymore. Are all the folks I talk to you and I bring this up, they are all you kind of get them to show you the data. I mean, it’s, I get an earful just like you are tonight. And so it’s not personal. I don’t mean to be that way. But I’m really worried that you’re going to have quite the uproar. And to Dan’s point, I don’t know how much advertising will be out before City Council talks to this, but it’ll be one of those issues, that they’re going to get an earful. You know, when they decide to pass ordinances, it was a no dog one. So I’m not sure how best you know, to your point, Bryce, it’s easier. But as a recreation, forestry for the sea kind of thing, copping out with because it’s easier is not going to win you friends, either. I mean, you know, we

Unknown Speaker 56:34
got what I hear them saying. I mean, what I am saying is that there are two overarching priorities for that. I mean, and maybe it’s a communication or

Unknown Speaker 56:43
waterboard, that would make perfect sense, but from the recreation board,

Unknown Speaker 56:49
that we’re parks and recreation for we’re not recreation space. Yeah. So Parks and Recreation and actually parks comes first people recreation. Park is a preserve. I don’t know. I feel like it’s just I I hear what you’re saying that I do believe that in the public facing when this comes out for vote, that there should be some maybe stronger presentation. This is an excellent presentation, stronger, definitive presentation, that’s anti dog. And I am voting wholeheartedly I will be for adopting this plan I think is fabulous. And I think we need to protect this area. But like that’s what it is like, I get the I want to bring the llama, but I can’t. I don’t know. Got some different views, I think than other people but I think that maybe he’s right that we need to have it be stronger. But I’m looking for people to complain at me about their dog not being able to be at home one area

Unknown Speaker 58:11
I think this takes a unique place. It makes it like every other pile ranch or haul ranch with your dogs. It’s no longer you look. This is one of the few places where you can go hike in the mountains with your dog. The only one that I really know. Surely, right. That’s part of why we get so many. So it’ll become whole ranch. And in fact it’s kind of bass ackwards Because Hall ranch and Heil should allow dogs, we have a lake. They don’t. This is stupid. Boulder did it first is why we’re stuck in this position. I mean, you know, it allows dogs and people are used to that and like it. But we have a lake to protect. We have a better case for prohibiting dogs than Boulder County did. If you look at it that right?

Unknown Speaker 58:59
I mean,

Unknown Speaker 59:00
you can hike a whole ranch with dogs, then you’d have a place and we could come in here there are

Unknown Speaker 59:07
places there lots of places to hike with your dogs. So

Unknown Speaker 59:12
not in the city of Longmont. This is not within the

Unknown Speaker 59:15
area. I don’t want to I mean, we’re not here to necessarily anticipate this issue. I feel like if we cannot as parks and recreation advisory board support this plan I’m going to be super disappointed that if that’s where we are then I don’t know that there’s much value in us continuing to just kind of like go round and round.

Unknown Speaker 59:34
Well, I’ll just vote no, but that doesn’t mean the board will vote yes, it’s up to you guys. If you want to unanimous then we’re a hung jury. Right.

Unknown Speaker 59:49
I mean, we can I don’t is the board.

Unknown Speaker 59:53
We just always have been important to

Unknown Speaker 59:59
you At the beach, I’d like to make motion that the board supports the plan with the exception of the domestic animal part of the plan which I believe he talked about, but I don’t believe it meets evidence specific indirect evidence. Photo of unleashed dog is not a good way of presenting the case. And so if parts in the Parks and Rec board supports the plan we can do so 90% of the way and just be quiet I’m looking at stick animals

Unknown Speaker 1:00:38
i No we’re not. No I that’s specifically why I support the plan is because of the new ordinance. There are other parts of the plan that I’m a little more iffy on the fact that you can only passively recreate within like 20 feet of the trail and you can’t you know you can’t go study your own orchids lady slipper I’d rather have that right like because that’s my kind of recreation but such a unique ecosystem such a it’s a place that needs to be protected. And dogs are a big part of it in my footprints going to the orchid slipper lady butterfly plant I will forego along with the dogs to protect this area.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:27
So did you want to make that is a formal motion? Second?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:38
Motion the Lamont Parks and Recreation board supports the button rock preserve reserve management plan, with the exception of the domestic animal policy.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:00
Paper call this post

Unknown Speaker 1:02:10
mean we could do the opposite motion?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:14
I don’t think so. Yeah, I think maybe we’ll just need to express our own feelings to city council.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:27
Could you Sorry, just staff could could you, as Scott alluded to before, agree on 90% of plans and support that portion but we are not able to inch agreement on the domestic? Yeah, you’re not?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:48
So that’s a decent suggestion. But that’s

Unknown Speaker 1:02:58
not like Yeah, right. I mean, anyone can come

Unknown Speaker 1:03:07
here and say, We are not in agreement?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:16
Can you make that motion pitch that you just said, resolve massive?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:23
Does that feel meaningful to you?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:26
As opposed to what you just did?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:29
To have expression of the support without? And just sharing that we’re

Unknown Speaker 1:03:36
divided? Sure. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:38
I mean, it’s I don’t think

Unknown Speaker 1:03:46
that I would like to make a motion that we express support from the Parks and Recreation advisory board for the button rock preserve, but recognize that we are split on the question of whether or not to allow for domestic can we communicate that to

Unknown Speaker 1:04:08
families in favor

Unknown Speaker 1:04:11
so that we can go down?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:13
Pretty sure it’s everyday so much.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:25
Thank you. Thanks. Like you said impressive. Nice talk. Just religion. I do think on things with fitness to these boards. It is a reflection of the community at large and it helps that because we get prepared to take this board to really have some information about things that take us down. You’ve talked about having a link to this document and Danielle has believed to still in that draft form and find this as pieces were taken into I think staff recommendation still staff recommendation but there are places I think we’re at some something that is definitely beneficial to how we carry that message. So

Unknown Speaker 1:05:07
much homework has we’ve ever had to do it was kind of fun, because that was retired.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:20
Okay, next time on old business feature recreation facility. And

Unknown Speaker 1:05:27
so I have David and I have two updates. In a separate email, you were sent the proposed timeline for the cultural fund tax. And with the first part of what will be happening is a scientific survey will be conducted, yet this month will be sent out a survey conducted by a group that will have valid surveys. So we as a group won’t be able to put in our feedback, but we’ll give good information to city council on what the community is feeling as it relates to the multiple things that are included in the polls on right now. So it’s our hope, ours being staff in this room, that by your next meeting, we will have results of that survey that we’ll be able to present. Has it already started? No. Council, it’s with council now. They’re finalizing their their feedback, and then it will have the company we’ve gotten feedback from the company that will be conducting the survey, and it’s ready to go once Council gives their approval.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:02
What’s on the columns? What is the range of things that will be asked?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:08
It will ask what whether you’ve used some of these facilities over the last period of time? What is your support of building a new rec center new library as an example? And also, what is your feeling on whether you’re willing to pay additional taxes? And each one will be people will have the opportunity to vote on? I want this but not that kind of thing or my preference?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:42
Do you know so we’ll talk about things that we would like to have sort of explored as this was being shaped, you know, in December, December meeting about the good, do you know if those will all be considered in some way? Shape?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:59
No, it was probably the best answer.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:03
I would like to see the survey include some open ended. I mean, we’re not rolling. But

Unknown Speaker 1:08:08
I I’m not here to ask your approval for the survey. I don’t mean to be rude, but you are not being asked for your feedback. The Council and the leadership of the of the city are making those decisions, which is usually not how we do business. But because time is of the essence. There really wasn’t a way that we could take feedback from all of the boards and be able to get it turned around in a timely manner.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:43
Do you think we’ll have the results by March 13? When we asked

Unknown Speaker 1:08:45
me that is my hope, but it just depends on how long it takes council to do their final approval. So sorry.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:56
Yeah, no, no,

Unknown Speaker 1:08:58
it’s it’s refreshing to be told that you didn’t actually want my opinion, because sometimes I think that our board is here to say yes. And so being asked, okay, then that’s fine. Just

Unknown Speaker 1:09:18
so additional Council direction is after the poll results. Yes. And we’re not going to put in a we read we have rear going there’s nothing new agree or disagree, but you’re not. You’re just if we get lucky, we’ll get the results, but we’re not going to give you any further recommendations.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:36
Well, Michael would be able to do that after so that’s our chance. I can’t make any commitment because David and I and Ben are not drivers.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:48
Okay. I got that. Right, right, march 13 February.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:54
So we just have talked in the past on this board about some of the challenges during last ballot initiative and kind of pre work and really reliable cooling. And so I’ll just say worries me a little bit. Because I feel like maybe this isn’t going to be the best, like the kind of robust foundation you were hoping for. And I know he doesn’t have anything to do with that. But it is worried it’s worrisome start

Unknown Speaker 1:10:24
raised. And that’s why I was saying that I’d like to see open ended questions because people are want to support something that they haven’t put on, but they don’t want to support something that is being presented that they didn’t have to implement. So I think that it will have less of a chance of passing without that kind of background. But that’s okay. That’s how that wants to. That’s how it’s going. It’s gonna go and it will pass or it will.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:51
I will get you the questions as soon as may pop up.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:57
Oh, assuming you will have to be do the survey before? Yeah, well, you

Unknown Speaker 1:11:03
won’t be able to. It’s a scientific, it will be sent directly to households, kind of like the customer satisfaction. It’s got to be random. So like I said, us as a group, we can’t all say, Yeah, we want the results.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:28
Yeah, so what the additional community involvement

Unknown Speaker 1:11:33
well, then during items from staff will be giving an update on where we’re at with the Master Plan and feasibility study. And there will be very limited because we’re, once you give that right now.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:51
Since we’re talking Yeah, we’re, we’re in the midst of review, at this point for the, for the feasibility study for the recreation program, master plan, so can actually talk about your health, it should and that, but we are in that right now. Hope to complete that process quickly. And then we’ll start and this is about the feasibility study for Brexit, not all of the other things within this. And you guys are familiar with that process, it will look somewhat similar to this. And as we think about that part of the process is my hope that you will be very, very robust. And that will be one of our requirements with our consultants to do that.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:42
Thank you. Just to clarify, so you’re reviewing the RFP when

Unknown Speaker 1:12:46
you’re reviewing proposals.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:48
Yeah, the deadline has passed, and we’re reviewing proposals

Unknown Speaker 1:12:51
and what are they? Since we had asked to see the RFP, but we didn’t ever get to see it. So can you tell us what like, what are you asking consultants to help you

Unknown Speaker 1:13:06
to do is to design a rec center and also to evaluate and I think we have talked about this a little bit

Unknown Speaker 1:13:17
not specifically what would be

Unknown Speaker 1:13:20
and we’ll send that to you. We’ll send that out. So you have this so it’s about that but in the proposal, we will need to be done by end of June so that any information can be presented back to you all and to city council. And we asked

Unknown Speaker 1:13:41
for a number of public input meetings at least this many a number of scientific studies scientific service surveys or random like this one

Unknown Speaker 1:13:56
well we get we get that that’s

Unknown Speaker 1:14:13

Unknown Speaker 1:14:15
so we talked about like the transition of once this gets into

Unknown Speaker 1:14:21
closer to the election like city staff can’t really

Unknown Speaker 1:14:26
hasn’t taken more objective viewpoint what part of the timeline does that like transition happen?

Unknown Speaker 1:14:31
August August once once City Council has placed items on the ballot then that we can only give the facts that

Unknown Speaker 1:14:45
we as a me we get to still do that and yeah, did a bad job last time. We’ll be right I mean, we did i We didn’t help enough and it was a different thing. But that would be my thought was we all could step up? Should we get kind

Unknown Speaker 1:15:02
of what I was asking? Like when she when is it our turn? August?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:07
I think depending that we could also miss, you know, like April, May that community it depends on what form that takes. Yeah. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:29
So as you’ve been looking for ways to kind of increase the amount of pickleball users in the community, what are the things you’ve been talking about with the pickleball leadership in the community use, you know, the conversion, space or Teneo. To convert the existing wheels Park to a space that would allow for permanent nets, and then permit painting of lines on that space. And then in the roller hockey space, have a shared space because I still use for roller hockey and some of the winter soccer use over there to put permanent lines on that, then convert the existing tennis courts to pickleball courts, and had a committee meeting, I think we had three individuals from the neighborhood show up and three individuals from the pickleball community show up. And I think it was a good conversation. I think that the neighbors up there had some good questions about things from noise, that type of use actually the ability to be able to use those chords as they were switched over the cloakroom using them all the time, I think those questions were answered fairly well, in the way that Jeff has managed quail tennis courts, we have tournaments that we try to keep those open for the public as well. I think everyone in that meeting, left, like that sort of a change with something that they could support. And it’s pretty small group. But I think what things we also learned doing this for a long time when something really is a big issue for the community, people have a tendency to show off if it’s really something really impacts on. We did receive some letters, though, too, we want to make sure that we got to the board members, and I think everybody’s had a chance to see those. So that’s, that’s where we’re at right now. And, Jeff, are we looking really for this board to give?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:18
I think we’ve at least one feedback of what your thoughts are on making that conversion?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:26
Do you have any community feedback from the over Park area, neighbors in particular, since those courts are

Unknown Speaker 1:17:35
the really don’t hear anything from?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:40
I know, it’s just a small anecdotal, we have gotten information back from the community that informed I think was a written letter or one was from staff that heard it too. So the activities are taking place over in the parking lots. As far as things that were not activities, we would like to really see over there, those have been displaced by the increased use of the vehicle. So if it’s vandalism, or some of the direct use of people we’re seeing over there, that seems to have at least a few

Unknown Speaker 1:18:05
neighbors, my experience is that those courts are full all the

Unknown Speaker 1:18:09
time. So that’s exactly what’s then displayed some of the bad behavior. But that’s

Unknown Speaker 1:18:13
what we’re noise complaining.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:16
I’ve never, I have never gotten them on to recreation centers. Which is interesting.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:24
So if I wanted to go and play tennis, and it’s marked for pickleball, and I just go ahead and play tennis.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:31
It’s a different size court. So you can’t really play the official net height is done. Yeah. And I just don’t

Unknown Speaker 1:18:44
want design to W get

Unknown Speaker 1:18:46
served. Like a true game.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:51
And then the closest tennis courts if you wanted to, because coming from you come from you’d have other options before you got over there from where you’re at? Oh, no,

Unknown Speaker 1:18:59
no, I have no desire to play either tennis. I am just saying like, yeah, there’s plenty of tennis around me right now. And plenty of pickleball going on around me. I just want to know, like, I’m just tried to, like, I just don’t get why we can’t play both sports on both things. Do we have that many tournaments coming in? And if we do, what kind of money are they paying for it? Pay it?

Unknown Speaker 1:19:25
Well, it isn’t necessarily it’s about day to day, play, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:19:29
Day to day play. You can play on anything like you expect, you know, like,

Unknown Speaker 1:19:35
because it’s not marked for that. Right now. overs the only only designated complex, it’s got like six portraits. Yes. The pickleball Association, Jeanne, by the way behind you is with pickleball Association, but they’ve gone in and done some temporary things and all of the inline Um, core chat, left hand will and that corner.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:04
skatepark. Usually skating was a fad. Yeah. Is it

Unknown Speaker 1:20:11
skating back? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:13
Oh, boy. Surf for another fight.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:16
So the, the inline, they understand that it’s a first come first service changes. Yeah. So but on the what was the the wheels cord and then we’re proposing taking the two tennis courts out and putting six courts back in there. The association’s presenting that staff will respond to

Unknown Speaker 1:20:41
that. I think one things as far as tournaments right now tennis does have quail and a few of the ways that they manage that right now the pickleball community? To answer your question, we can’t answer that because we have not had the ability to allow them to have trends because we don’t have enough facilities within our team. So this will give them the ability to at least start seeing how winning tournaments potentially could benefit are.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:02
Really we’re looking for day to day increase. tournaments have not been the driver. Right? It’s not one

Unknown Speaker 1:21:14
worked. Like I thought they had both markings on there, because that’s when I was reading this.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:19
They have a clerk they have two tennis and two typical, we’re proposing that it becomes six pickleball. Because of the demand that that we’re seeing with

Unknown Speaker 1:21:33
science is there I mean, the tennis community have any concern about this? Does my neighborhood want to have tennis and football? I mean, I

Unknown Speaker 1:21:47
will that was the public meeting we held and we sent out. Within I sent I included the map but that area, we had three neighbors, none of them tennis or pickleball players were the two emails that spoke against it. So

Unknown Speaker 1:22:07
the tennis committee that we met with them, actually and they were they had no extra supportive as making the change here so that it did not impact other areas as

Unknown Speaker 1:22:16
well. To be fair, that’s the Longmont Tennis Association, not neighbors who might go play tennis, random 15

Unknown Speaker 1:22:23
year old kids kneeling,

Unknown Speaker 1:22:25
right? I’m just saying exactly.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:29
So we’re kind of talking about an all or nothing kind of deal. Why not just cannibalize one of the tennis courts that have both of them. You get two more pickleball you still have at least one tennis

Unknown Speaker 1:22:40
because the uses conflict. But if you have somebody playing tennis on one, one court and multiple people playing on the cross way of the other court, is there going to be interfering with each other all the time? There are how many tennis courts in town 10 Chenot coil and then there at Willow or a car or not with a

Unknown Speaker 1:23:15
car pret at fault. Dawson? Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 1:23:23
yeah, so 2020 LTA

Unknown Speaker 1:23:26
is in particular, it’s not the tournaments at all, it’s the weekly leagues that go on all summer, and they do pay for those. I mean, the tennis players all have to put in money, and we buy time on their thing. And I would hope I suspect pickleball will come to that same place. Yeah. So we’ll get more people out there playing and that’s why the LTA says fine. Take me on, we’re not using these courts, you know, go ahead, but again, they’re not representing neighborhood kids who want to just I’m just reminding everybody that that use changes. So, you know, we have to decide, or we get to decide whatever.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:08
But again, usually when people have an opinion, they show up at meetings, or they email. And, again, I’m not trying to downplay the two emails, or the number of people that showed up at the meeting, but

Unknown Speaker 1:24:26
it it

Unknown Speaker 1:24:28
came across to staff as it doesn’t seem like there’s a push for it or against it. And we asked Pokeball not to show up in droves. FME is we knew there

Unknown Speaker 1:24:44
Well, my impression I’m on I got recently stuck onto the LTA board probably because I’m also on this board. It My impression is that they are happy for pickleball to have the sports to be done with a problem and to divvy it up and And to keep what LTA has, which is courts, which are playable for league play, and it’s enough courts, it’s not going to be enough courts in the future because Boulder is about to lose rmtc, the Rocky Mountain Test Center has been bought, you know, behind the overlay. Yeah. And that’s going to disappear. And it’s going to be a huge influx of folks playing on LTE leads. So we’re not done with this problem. But I think the LTAs thought is, we’re never going to play leagues on these ports. So pickleball should, you know, I think it’s, and your impression is it’s friendly. Right? Between the two boards? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:39

Unknown Speaker 1:25:39
also met with Yeah, right. Scott in particular. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:43
And and, Aaron, I think this was kind of goes back to one of your questions, is you can’t have sanction matches, either in tennis, or pickleball. And if they have multiple lines, so we’re, we’re trying to stay away from the tennis courts that we know that LTA the Tennis Association, uses in, in compromise they made was, they would be okay, not using Clark, if we stayed away from the

Unknown Speaker 1:26:19
other courts. You know, Jeff, and I came up with the same thing, can we just share and do this low hanging fruit, let’s just share that between the two clubs, the best way to share was to have separate spaces. So you’re sharing physical space that way?

Unknown Speaker 1:26:34
I don’t have a strong opinion about this. But I just would remind that there are multiple uses. I mean, the inline skating rinks, for example, I know lots of kids, so like to use them for hockey and skating. And so, you know, just in terms of balancing, and I wouldn’t guessing that, you know, people if I was going to continue to grow and probably want other facilities. Imagine, I think we’re considering a new one. Right. And one of the parts, it’s

Unknown Speaker 1:27:04
already an improvement, you know, original design.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:09
I don’t know. Like, whenever there’s a look at it, you know, the recreation piece of the master planning. I mean, I think thinking again, about how we build these uses and ensure that particularly the people in the neighborhoods who are not don’t have an organized organization, they don’t have a Tennis Association or pickleball Association, they’re just people using their recreational facilities, we need to make sure that they don’t get pushed out of those opportunities. I agree.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:38
That maybe the the we’re we’re talking about that, it’s more likely to be used just for people goofing around to play pickleball than it would be used for people goofing around to play tennis.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:55
And our proposal doesn’t change anything within landscapes.

Unknown Speaker 1:28:01
Also, it’s like a reusable net or something original. Yeah, well, we,

Unknown Speaker 1:28:04
we all we’ve done is tape, this tape lines there, and it’s portable nets. And we’ve had skaters show up on a plane, you know, usually it’s only like a dad and some kids whatever. Anyway, they just use one half and we’re down and shared and never a problem. That’s nice.

Unknown Speaker 1:28:26
So do you need a recommendation from us is that it’ll be good. I’ll do that yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:28:37
So yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:28:44
I’d like to move to recommend that we do carry on with removing to these two tennis courts or replacing them as as it seems to be in agreeance with multiple boards with

Unknown Speaker 1:29:00
pickleball courts and

Unknown Speaker 1:29:10
other than famers just gonna stay safe All right. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:21
Was there any is there any thought to the one downtown Collier Park yet?

Unknown Speaker 1:29:27
We are going to resurface that with to as as pickleball and tennis they started

Unknown Speaker 1:29:37
and we do see from

Unknown Speaker 1:29:39
Okay, thanks. I remember that letter from Sharon.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:47
Okay, let’s move on to new business. Consider board retreat in the

Unknown Speaker 1:29:54
agenda calendar.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:01
Do you want to talk about the board retreat?

Unknown Speaker 1:30:05
I’m not really prepared to I’m getting my band training on Fridays.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:27
Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:28
Actually, let’s float through the wouldn’t be much of a float. Let’s float to the button.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:39
So do you really?

Unknown Speaker 1:30:40
Yeah. So based on the feedback you all gave us at the January meeting, we’ve updated the agenda calendar and wanted any more feedback? Or if you could approve that, and this was what we would move forward with.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:02
As you’re involved with this planning also, right? This is, or is this just well,

Unknown Speaker 1:31:07
this is similar to what we did last year. And it’s kind of updated based on feedback. So it’s kind of similar. There were plenty. I mean, I see field trip discussion and planning in April. And I thought you said If we did want to consider doing something on the river, we needed to do that, but it’s not kind of

Unknown Speaker 1:31:29
run off mid May to late June.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:34
So talking about it in April.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:37
So ever do it on a second Monday of a month. That sounds like a second Monday in June.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:43
I can go floating.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:45
Okay. In the past, we’ve done field trips,

Unknown Speaker 1:31:49
are you talking about? Ages, ages and a few, apparently to

Unknown Speaker 1:31:57
have to do that. I liked this idea of seeing recreation, seeing this from a different viewpoint. I think that’s gonna be super fun,

Unknown Speaker 1:32:08
fringe benefit.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:12
Are there any other topics that people don’t see on here that they would like us to consider? I mean, you’ll notice, which I appreciate with the recreation library culture initiative, so we can check on that every now

Unknown Speaker 1:32:35
and then, is that so there’s a master planning update March may remember, anything else?

Unknown Speaker 1:32:48
Okay. Yeah, that’s fine.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:53
If not, I would move that we approve the agenda.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:58
Advisor the calendar.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:00
I moved that we approved the calendar for 2023 Parks and Recreation advisory board

Unknown Speaker 1:33:19
I’m so proud of us for not being unanimous on something. I gotta tell you.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:26
Okay, discuss items from the packet updates. Does anyone have questions from the items that were included in the packet?

Unknown Speaker 1:33:37
I do. Like we can go to like ecosystem management and open space and stuff now. Number eight on ecosystem management and open space. what’s occurring on management at McLaughlin, McLaughlin look like and what’s it what’s the purpose

Unknown Speaker 1:34:08
so that’s it. That’s a property that we’ve purchased really for increasing City’s ownership around that Clover Clover base price for and we did that in conjunction with Boulder County, there’s also neighbors out there. So we try to manage those properties in a way that kind of meets the ecological needs of property to also be expected of the neighbors too. So we have an obligation to take care of some of the prairie dogs and managers on that property. So I don’t see us getting rid of all the prairie dogs out there. We definitely have Raptors out there as a as a small fairly intact very this also personal footprint. So we try to manage those prairie dogs in ways they don’t cause they push the fences and move around to neighboring properties.

Unknown Speaker 1:34:57
I’m certainly haven’t happened in answer that question on because of Yeah. All right. I love it. 1818 1530. So

Unknown Speaker 1:35:18
past history,

Unknown Speaker 1:35:20
work 22 years as the open space manager for the city, just recently retired in October, so

Unknown Speaker 1:35:33
a couple months ago, you sat on that study?

Unknown Speaker 1:35:35
Yeah. So if you’re familiar with the McLaughlin property, you know, there’s the entry road that comes in off, I believe, that’s 65th Avenue. And basically, that’s where the separation is between prairie dog management. So everything to the north of that road, we’re, you know, had been trying to keep dogs out of that area, everything to the south to Nelson road. That is, again, as David said, there’s it’s quite a lovely place from a wildlife perspective, why Mel? And rapid perspective, and certainly the prairie dogs are an important aspect of that ecosystem. So the team is working primarily to, and we’ve actually tried to get an agricultural lease on everything to the north side of that asphalt road. It’d be nice to bring it over when Steve, could you bring it up, because that’s what I looked it up. So there is that entryway, you know, but again, with the intent of trying to keep that northern portion of the property in agriculture, and more hate grazing, more like a hay production, you know, on that, and then everything to the south of that room trying to use some of the natural barriers as well as that road as that barrier that cuts off between product management to the north versus the south.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:00
So have neighbors mentioned that they don’t want prey dogs definitely the actual

Unknown Speaker 1:37:06
time we right from day one. As we prior prior to purchasing that property, we were working the neighbors it had concerns about us managed to find

Unknown Speaker 1:37:17
neighbors, so the management would be erecting a prairie dog, or installing a prairie dog barrier fence to keep prairie dogs out of theirs. They’re

Unknown Speaker 1:37:29
no, we used to do product and do fences at this point. Those are things we do we have done in the past, we’ve worked with neighbors to show the the cost and then we’ve done volunteer projects, we have had staff that and install those. But typically, if we can keep it up for a job, once I that area, like Dan said, using natural things like roads to say, we’re gonna keep this down here with four regions, keep them natural, and other side, then we just do use a carbon monoxide machine to treat prey dogs that go to the north of that. And again, just trying to keep your profit population as balanced as possible. Using the natural ecosystem out there. The times we have to step in to help manage that.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:08
I mean, it seems like that’s a pretty big expense. And we thought about educating people on the benefits of very dogs in your pasture land, because that is documented as opposed to the the old wives tale of like horses kind of vulnerable.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:23
It really is not it really is the fact that the prairie dogs eat the same things that the ranches are trying to raise for their forage crop too. So there really is I mean, I’ve been myself and Dan and that have these conversations with local neighbors for 2530 years. And there’s I think, a place we’ve gotten to that. They recognize that we’re not going to go through a euthanize all the gray dogs on the adjacent land. And at one point, those private, whatever want to see us do so I think that that piece now is just the education that we’re going to have great dogs that meet those ecological needs. And these properties will try to be a good neighbor and you know, as many eyesight as possible, there’s a point where they’re responsible for the property too, but we have looked at fencing and that’s a total expense. The fencing is very expensive, and it doesn’t always work. They go under they go over

Unknown Speaker 1:39:12
five hours.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:17
Yeah. Other questions from the packet?

Unknown Speaker 1:39:24
Steve, your how’s this new design build thing I saw you mentioned is you know, I know you can’t get as many details but are you feeling good? Or is it a whole disaster or how you doing?

Unknown Speaker 1:39:34
Well? No, it’s not a disaster. We did fail. We received we received submittals for design build work for software, Clover meadows and Fox Meadows. We received one submittal that basically was a person that said they can build a fence if we wanted to. That didn’t really help us much. So long our procure Every manager Valerie Scott reached out to potential clients got some feedback. We actually had a meeting today with David and Jodie Marsh or Deputy City Manager. And we are going to put it back out with updated cost estimates. Contract installed, our

Unknown Speaker 1:40:19
costs were too low.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:21
We are, if you guys notice that City Council this past Tuesday, there was a presentation on increased costs on all sorts of capital projects, transportation, the Nelson planters water plant, everything is we’re seeing unprecedented cost increases. So we’re going to increase the costs that we have for those two parks. And we’re actually going to be adding the dry creek fields transition from turf to synthetic turf, to that design build project to make it closer to about 10 million to make more attractive for some of those larger firms, rather than the 3 million we went with before. So we’re going to leave, I’m not sure if they haven’t mentioned, we have hired someone who’s going to be starting here the end of the month to fill to fill Kathy’s position. So it’ll be someone else to help us budget management, in addition to Danielle and I. And so we hope to have that out on the streets by the end of next week. With purchasing, it’ll be a shortened period because we’ve already educated a lot of the potential vendors about two of the three projects. So that’s the plan. And hopefully I’ll have more of an update. When March comes. Thanks, guys.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:44
Yeah, well, like you said, Me too. And I’m like, oh, wonder what happened. I was gonna bring it up. Because this is a big thing for all of us. I mean, for this whole system. So yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:41:54
I think it’s a big thing. You have staff Harold, right council members making the piece to that. Steve mentioned we failed. But again, it’s not a deal. We’re starting over.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:04
But honestly, the first time

Unknown Speaker 1:42:08
we talked to vendors locally, they were very open with their comments and were lined up with another product.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:13
We estimated, you know, Gallo Park, costing about 2.5 million. My cost estimate right now I’m at about 100%. Design is 5.2. It’s big difference. It just took the two digits.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:34
So and that’s, you know, people watch council was just last week, Tuesday, last Tuesday. That’s really what all of our kind of larger CIP project managers kind of went forward and talked about. That’s what we’re seeing across the board as far as these increases, especially when those lot of those projects were designed years before this. So we had this sort of Oh, was that 2% inflator on it? And it just wasn’t working on

Unknown Speaker 1:42:59
things. And one other question, man, yeah, Ben, I saw lots of numbers. It looks like we’re doing great and they’re excellent. Give me a Are we back to broke COVID? Are we what you know? So are we doing budget at once for

Unknown Speaker 1:43:14
up next month, because that’s what I really want to show all that stuff. Okay, sorry. So put all that together. But

Unknown Speaker 1:43:26
January, looked really good. It was a it was a very good month and exceeded January of 20, which was an excellent month, we were January and February 20. We were killing it. We were looking great number, revenue, numbers, participation numbers. And then of course, March of 20, hit right. And that exceeded 19. And January of this year exceeded an 18 by $100,000.20 by 50 jobs. So that’s a really nice job. Now, a lot of passes get sold in January, because our fees did go up February 1. So you gotta be a bump of fees. But a few less fast. It’ll be interesting to see. It’s February. I’m really interested in seeing these two months, but we’re coming around to our new normal.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:21
And I saw you had some hires. Is that almost normal? Yeah. I mean, we were started on for people. I don’t

Unknown Speaker 1:44:27
know I’ve been here since Oh, seven. I don’t think we have we have a really nice small reorganization within aquatics that we’re got positions posted. Therapeutic Recreation, that positions posted. We’re coming around.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:49
Maybe it’s the new top management right now. Thank you all Like I mentioned,

Unknown Speaker 1:45:05
just not getting up. While we’re on the high schools and calling and climbing. It’s got it’s not if you’re a climber, it’s not such a huge certification starts. It’s a little surprising. As far as I didn’t get

Unknown Speaker 1:45:30
a question for an update on the pricing with you expect to see that come back or yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:45:36
probably the May we’re going to take a different approach with that.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:41
Okay, so like permits and things it’s gonna be held off till May then. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:49
And as part of the 24th budget process

Unknown Speaker 1:45:58
have a couple of questions for you the New Zealand mud scandal is a little alarming and I and there’s no effective controls and I want to know how far it’s moved up the creek and you know, is it going to be a button rock soon and also can be supply brushes like the foot cleaners and inter on why you’d want to use that on those to help people not spread.

Unknown Speaker 1:46:39
So I think a couple pieces there. So the big places that we really get concerned about are our union reservoir This is a place where we had the most activity so we do have dollars that come in from water resources and all the rangers and the gate attendants have been trained in how to assess vehicles that are coming in and vessels are coming in to see if they have potential water and they’re in the motors or the boats that would pose a threat they have to go through it and then do a decontamination and they don’t revise new equipment for that actually working very closely to stay parseInt training but also there’s tagging program so they come from waters where there were no muscles that kind of goes we can cover those directly in we ever boat storage there in the creek though is a lot more challenging because we don’t have that point of access so as as people coming in and out so I think your idea of how do you help better educate people with all those points is something that I’m how we manage all that but you guys first places like maybe Gibbons Park Yeah, that’s the spot where you may be able to do some of those

Unknown Speaker 1:47:43
tokens I’d say Dickens up by Golden ponds I’d say writers Grove say those places because I mean this is this is a zebra mussel everyone knows about zebra mussels they had a really good education and you know yet nationwide campaign but this is the mud snail and it’s on my shoes yeah so I if I’m not a builder I’ve ignored all that and you know if you’re a mom that trumps with your kids crocs you know here and there people don’t want to mess up our ecosystem so if we can have that like in our in our inner creaky parks I think that would be good in how the shoe brushes back to you know what moms want those shoe brushes anyway right I think that that’s not a big investment I just want to do a

Unknown Speaker 1:48:36
time check with a tiny up daily if you want to go past 838 30

Unknown Speaker 1:48:51
I have an item from the board when it comes to that time. So do we want to go till 845 I move that we go to 845 if we need to

Unknown Speaker 1:49:17
are we good with Ivan starting the packet execution stack I will just add those to the hub that we actually offered a position for to fill the existing vacant position that Kathy Braun was filling so that will be some help as we’re moving forward to try to get these projects done. So imagine comes comes with a cheese does that have the landscape architecture but she has she has an architecture working in the hospital in partnership with for children’s hospital right now. It’s an architect and they work in projects with them for quite a while.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:58
Are you feeling the agency

Unknown Speaker 1:50:00
So we’re still in the process of what we’re looking at doing with HR in Germany. This is really split that position. Dakki man really is an open space manager took on a whole lot of other land management role cities that were looking into is splitting up the land management piece, and then having that as one position and then later openspace piece of Lee’s deals with the acquisitions the conservation easement, writing and management plans. We’re working on grants to do that the regional trail connections to really have kind of two separate skill sets and a lot of people will have the dad kind of was able to bring that position but also grow it so we are looking at moving forward to advertise versus Jusuf separate positions.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:41
Okay, I am starting.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:45
I have a question about shoveling tennis courts and pickleball courts. And in particular, Scott Hempel, the head of the LTA sent out an email to the whole LTA folks saying don’t shop, because you’ll ruin the courts. When I go by the pickleball courts and over Park, they are shoveled very nicely. And I don’t know if that should be is that a city policy? Was it an LTA policy? Do we need to, I mean, it’s kind of late in the season to worry about this. I know there is damage on tennis courts from somebody took a friggin snowblower once. I mean, you know, on the one hand, I get it people want to recreate on the other hand, I don’t want to pay as a citizen for resurfacing courts. And so what’s the policy? Or is there a policy? You’re gonna start with that

Unknown Speaker 1:51:37
and I’ll add what my staff maybe has contributed to that conversation before you go.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:45
You know what we

Unknown Speaker 1:51:45
really have told the pickleball community that plastic shovels and even snowblowers with rubber blades when I was thinking about that, well can you recognize once you start seeing a shovel, you see the damage people come out with,

Unknown Speaker 1:51:59
you know, say that again, you don’t mind plastic,

Unknown Speaker 1:52:02
plastic, plastic shovels and even snow blowers with rubber blades with the tilde are

Unknown Speaker 1:52:10
interesting because tennis LTA guy says don’t use plastic. He says nothing except a broom. So I don’t know where he’s getting. This is ended up I want to talk about to as far as we need a policy or have one or posted better water policy

Unknown Speaker 1:52:27
and recreations then you can use it when the snows gone. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 1:52:32
let’s say the city staff does not remove snow from course. I knew that

Unknown Speaker 1:52:36
part. Well, there’s a beautifully or berm of snow all around the pickleball court and they’re full of people playing. So it’s hard to argue with people recreating on the other hand, when they come begging for new courts in a year. What do you tell them? You know, that kind of thing? So maybe more signage one way or the other? Whatever it is. Oh, shoot. I hate to say catalogs that just sounds we did that in COVID. Right. Do we ever do that in our in Walmart? Did we lock the doors? Yeah, we did. Yeah. Okay, just just a thought to be consistent now that we have new pickleball courts.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:19
I can tell you, Dan, that that there’s been a long term relationship between LTA and the city open Parks and Recreation, the pickleball community is less organized and as much newer and so that level of communication probably hasn’t been there. But if you’re guiding them like we

Unknown Speaker 1:53:35
are maybe they’re gone lower.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:38
So yeah, I think we could probably do a better job reaching out to people about that. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:44
Well there’s another piece that we’re there’s a financial relationship between LTA and the city also hold true right now is that evolves and pickleball and that is that we’ll get a little more chief.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:57
Yeah. And their organization can talk to their people without you got just like Scott did to the LTA. Yeah, yeah, you don’t have to be involved. Okay, that all makes sense. Thanks.

Unknown Speaker 1:54:12
So, rhythm on rivers moving to university in summer. The fall is that

Unknown Speaker 1:54:21
we are at the final moment of saying yes, is going to move to a fall. Proposing September 16. I’m telling you, we’re planning on September 16. Right now. We have something next month again, official to talk about that. But due to concerns from Harold about lease commitments, and the heat that’s in the summer, and the deficits in the summer, so we’re gonna make a change.

Unknown Speaker 1:54:57
Does that mean it’s gonna be 100 in September now? What Yeah. Oh, in order for them

Unknown Speaker 1:55:04
anyway, your anniversary

Unknown Speaker 1:55:14
as the larger events at Roosevelt lefthand events, we feel like it’s a new location remaining Rosewell.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:28
But there wasn’t any requirement that there was a requirement for for, like that whole area to do some sort of celebration. Like, well there, was there the Genesis or were

Unknown Speaker 1:55:41
there some, I don’t know about this requirement to do an event there. Rogers Grove there had some sort of, there’s a donation that we received, based on doing something in there and we’re working on, we’re still gonna have a race during that period. And that relationship may change.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:03
This, Scott does bring up a point of this robber Roger Jones donation for Rogers Grove did have some stipulations about continuing education, right, and look at what they want.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:15
But when Sue Jacobson was here, they were talking about they’re almost out of money at that time. And so the Jones Foundation, yeah, that’s what they said, we are working with them to see what their thoughts are. And we’ll we’ll do things appropriately. If we actually do some smaller event in in Rogers Grove during the summer, we’ll we’ll do that

Unknown Speaker 1:56:38
we have a brand new demonstration garden is being finished there. And

Unknown Speaker 1:56:47
you’ve done your due diligence on we will be doing a race, on the same evening that we’ve done the Roger shorter run every year with remember, and we’ll plan to build that up. So it’s not just just the race as a part of that other we’re going to make the race into more of a more of an event that more staff,

Unknown Speaker 1:57:08
you want to add something?

Unknown Speaker 1:57:10
Yeah. A little bit of history on this on this property. Remember that the management agreement and the conservation easement with Boulder County, because of the joint acquisitions and transitions of properties, it’s limited to a certain number of recreation, which included in the statement rhythm on the river. So it doesn’t limit it doesn’t require so much has to be done, but it is limited. With the approval for more County.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:42
Yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:43
What of our numbers been for attendance for them on the river? Because I just noticed I maybe it’s just when I go that they seem to have gone down quite a bit from when I first moved along. That would not be our impression at all. Last one, we believe to be the highest attended. Okay. Because

Unknown Speaker 1:58:14
there was a change and we change to nighttime rather than all day, so it condensed. So at that point, you may we may have lost some during the day or night. But over the last and to have my team in an alcove. But the last one certainly we’ve never had to expand into the observatory parking lots at firms and now we do now it’s just so you think that changes were made with stage opening up not having a tent really expanding? So, so that’s our we don’t have a counter on it. But everything, everything we see tells us that numbers are probably strong as ever stronger, stronger.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:07
Would that have the potential of taxing city resources with good analysts more?

Unknown Speaker 1:59:16
It’s not a recreation. No,

Unknown Speaker 1:59:18
I but it’s still enough though that that shouldn’t impact.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:24
Yeah. I mean, because when I at one point in time when I worked for the city, I had to work river rhythm on the river. But worked for the museum and it was it but nobody was coming to know but there wasn’t the reciprocal coming to work on Dia de los Muertos, which has now become, you know, enormous and is just become efficient.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:51
Well, we’ve seen as a part of the reason we’re changing is that we’re learning from two day events. One, we’re looking for recreation, you know, We’re for the whole time. And so we’re looking at possibly a split being within recreation. And that can be smaller. The commitment to this event will be, in general a little bit smaller the footprint smaller.

Unknown Speaker 2:00:20
So that’s kind of what I was was looking for, because like, just seemed like it just seems like a lot.

Unknown Speaker 2:00:39
So Scott said once we passed

Unknown Speaker 2:00:44
all right, I’m ready to turn. I could take a motion to adjourn. These are not public invited. Oh. You just outside? I mean, I’ll let you do you want to, I just want to make certain that the art board knows that kids fishing is working with recreation and the natural resources workgroup to put on, it’s probably the 20th Chiclet program on March 18. And, you know, it’ll be interesting, as you know, again, with the challenges for COVID and bring that program back, and we’re working with the Optimist Club and rotary and scouting troops and that kind of stuff. Likely, I believe it was in today’s paper was the notification today’s paper that we’ll be pulling off the sessions with approximately 160 kids. So I’m kind of working that liaison between kids fishing in the city.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:47
And again, I will get download perfect because there was a lot of change overnight with his position but also in our external sponsors for that they had turnover too. So there was there’s a lot of loss of connection out there. So Dan has been having a hard time retiring with that great job, really make sure that kept going because there was no

Unknown Speaker 2:02:08
resources. And for those board members that don’t know this is a fishing education program that we put on the first Saturday of Spring Break that the kids go through education session with a variety of fish ID how to tie knots, different rods and reels casting and then they come up with a we provide them rods and reels from the wildlife. We dock CPW stocks, the pond the week before, in addition to about $3,000 worth of fish from kids fishing, it’s a great event. We go through about 600 Hot dogs we have used that for the past 20 years on this somewhere between 250 to 300 rods and reels that are gone to kids in the community. That’s a pretty significant impact. So we really like to see this program continue outside of COVID

Unknown Speaker 2:03:09
without seeing the sell out.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:11
Oh yeah. We typically it takes like two weeks to fill those gaps, so much appreciation to the Natural Resources team and the recreation staff to making this a successful community program.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:29
Okay, we had a motion to adjourn it a second. I second. All right. All right.

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