Historic Preservation Commission – June 2, 2022
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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Unknown Speaker 0:00
call the meeting to order and for the first time in a very long time in person, so excellent to see everyone. Faces and more. Lovely. All right. Can we have the roll, please? Yes. Commissioner Sibley Commissioner hearties. Commissioner lane here. Commissioner Norton Here. Commissioner goon. Commissioner Jacoby. Thank you. Great. Thanks. So we do have a quorum. Next item on the agenda is the HPC minutes from May 5. We do have four of the members who were at that meeting present. So we are able to ratify those minutes. Are there any commissioners that have any questions or comments on that meeting minute. Okay, and Commissioner Jacoby, I just wanted to make sure that you were satisfied with the record that was put on there for the public comment. Okay, with that, I would entertain a motion and I think for the ease of can we do motions without having to do the mic dance? Okay. Okay, perfect. So with that, I’d entertain a motion for approval. Okay, moved by Commissioner Sibley. Seconded by Commissioner goon. All those in favor? Well, the way we’re going to do this is just raise your hand so that the video will capture votes. So all those in favor? All right. So it passes, four in favor and two abstentions. Next item is a report from the chairperson, wherein I am no longer obligated to talk at length about how one logs on to the meeting and waits in the queue and so on and so forth. So all I have to report then is that Commissioner Sibley and I did attend the City Council meeting on the 17th of May, we’re in the mayor and the council did proclaim May Historic Preservation month so that was good. That council was able to do that and just give a little more Republic recognition to preservation and archaeological aren’t married or how the maybe this is the seat. Archaeology. Thank you. All right. communications from HPC staff liaison.
Unknown Speaker 3:06
So I don’t have anything other than the agenda items. I don’t know Jennifer Glenn, if you have any additional items to cover. I think we’re good. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 3:17
Are there any questions from commissioners for staff that don’t relate to things that are on the agenda?
Unknown Speaker 3:29
Have an update on any support from the city for advertising for the tours that we talked about?
Unknown Speaker 3:39
Yeah, I need I needed to get back to your Rick on that commissioner to Kobe. I’ve been out a little bit in the month of May. So I haven’t had a chance to kind of follow up on that. But certainly, yeah, let’s chat this week or next week about that. And happy to kind of coordinate on that. I know that the museum is still hosting some upcoming walking tours this month, if anybody’s interested. But yeah, certainly let’s chat about the historic East Side tour and the potential for advertising for that.
Unknown Speaker 4:15
Looks like you’re offering.
Unknown Speaker 4:17
There we go. Yeah. I’ll just let you know that. I just took it upon myself to organize another tour. Just because the time is right now. If we can do it with city supportive advertising, great, but it’s going to be June 25. Saturday morning at 9am. And if not, I was thinking we probably will do another tour in the end of summer as well. And that one might work out better for advertising given the lead times we need for getting things in print and whatnot. But I will be doing one in June. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 4:53
we’ll see if we get some up on the city Historic Preservation web page. Obviously Since you’re a commissioner and see what other options we have for getting up getting the word out for the June 25. Great, thank you. Thanks.
Unknown Speaker 5:10
Okay, great. All right now we will move to public invited to be heard. So this is an opportunity for anyone in the audience who would like to speak on a topic that is not on the agenda. You’re welcome to come up and provide comment. Please do start by stating your name. And you do have three minutes after which this, this thing’s going to buzz pretty good.
Unknown Speaker 5:45
There’s a sign up sheet out there that they should have probably handed to you. And then you know, public’s coming to speak, that would be fantastic. You could prepare yourself.
Unknown Speaker 5:54
This is the first time and two and a half years we’re doing this. So we’ll, we’ll I think that’s an excellent suggestion. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 6:01
Thank you. My name is Sharon Alarie 534 Emory Street. First and foremost, thank you. Thank you for giving of your time and energy in his to the citizens of Longmont for historic preservation, when you go online, and that lists all the different boards, and they give a very brief description, if you want to apply for a board for historic preservation, it says considers matters relating to protecting, enhancing, and preserving properties of historic geographic or architectural significance in the city. Thank you. That’s what you’ve got to do. So thank you. I appreciate your time. Okay, so quickly. And oh, and thank you for meeting in person. And I hope in the future, we’re always meeting in person, but if not, if you could follow City Council schedule, it’s great. Because I think thinking in silos is not as good as meeting in person. That’s just my opinion. First of all, my most concerning thing is the demolition ordinance. I first came to historic preservation commission in February 2016. I mean, this longtime waiting and nothing’s happened, and nothing’s changed. So if if you believe in preservation, I think you really need to address our demolition code, because it’s not in favor of preserving. So maybe you could put that on your work plan. My second thing is a prime example was a house was demoed at 846 Emory, and it was demoed because it couldn’t support a second floor. Well, guess what? The majority of homes in this dirty side neighborhood can not support a second floor. And that needs to be looked at. Why did that happen? Why was that even something to consider when demoing? So this is what’s going to happen? And and what do you do as a preservation board when somebody oops, demos a house, an historic neighborhood is lost one home at a time, stop the bleeding. Three, I think it’s important that we look at pushing forward on that conservation overlay zone for HANA, which for 30 years preserved the neighborhood, it’s pretty much intact. And if we don’t move quickly, it could, it won’t look the same. And fourth, walking tours, I feel like there’s systemic bias going on. So there’s walking tours for Third Avenue and historic downtown and nothing for the east side, the oldest neighborhood. So what I would ask as a board that you contact the museum and suggest that they adopt or work with your board member who went and wrote his own walking towards so that our neighborhood, people could get to understand it understand the history of Longmont and maybe open their minds to preservation. So because of systemic bias. They have not included us in the second round. So please work be guardians, historically, side has been guardians of our neighborhood, and we just want you to get on the bandwagon with us. Again. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 9:08
Thank you for your comments. Next, absent is sheet is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak? Alright, thank you. Well, we’ll close the public hearing or public invited be heard. Thank you. All right, on to new business, which is an update on the dickens barn, Latin property, and I believe planning director, then we’re gonna do you have a report for us?
Unknown Speaker 9:41
I do, Mr. Chairman, and yeah, welcome, everybody to our first for me anyhow, our first in person meeting and we have a number of things we want to bring you up to speed on. And the first is the dickens barn assessment. And if you’ll remember on April 7, after you heard the press sentation by the 711 folks on their plan for preservation, I think you felt that the barn is an iconic structure and what can we do to preserve it? So you made a recommendation for them to go back and have their structural engineer, look at it from more of a lens of how do we keep it standing? How do we keep it the barn preserve there, and not necessarily turn it into a commercial building that meets our current building codes, which, as you remember, brought the price tag up well above two and a half million, I believe, to preserve it. So. And then at the end of the meeting, there was a call to staff to, again, reach out to some of the departments that would be involved in preserving the the barn. And for us, that would be natural resources, and then also Parks and Recreation. So Jennifer, and Brian and I did that we did reach out to them. And they also I think Brian brought out Carol, or no, I’m sorry, it was it was Dave, David Bell from natural resources as a good contact with Boulder County. And that’s Carol beam, who’s one of their preservation is on staff, they went out and took a look at the barn. And there was kind of a changing of thoughts. So we think there might be an opportunity where the town, the city could take ownership and be the stewards, the barn. It’s we’re still kind of in the infinite stage. But because of that, we thought, well, maybe we should reach out to a structural engineer that we have on contract that has worked with some historic structures here in town to kind of get that other look, because that’s the first question David Bell asked is, what’s it going to cost? So we’ve done that and we’ve prepared Gus Escobar from actually is housed in downtown Longmont, he prepared kind of a quick walkthrough with some ideas as far as where the structure is, from a structural standpoint. And I think it was pretty positive. So we have that. And Gus isn’t here tonight. But if you have, you know, specific questions, we’ll bring that back to him. But it’s, it’s certainly within the realm of possibility. So from that, we are also going to meet with Parks and Rec, to see if they have possibly a use for the structure wouldn’t be for public use. But if they can store equipment in it, much like its historic purpose, for maintenance of the park across the street for sandstone park across the street, then we have a use for it. And it certainly makes more sense. So we’re going to continue those discussions. And certainly if it looks better, we’ll probably have Gus go into a little bit more detail. As far as some of the things he couldn’t see, just through his walkthrough and, and analysis. So that’s kind of where we are. And we will keep you updated. The applicants have submitted their plans for development. So they’re in the development review process. It does take a while. But we do feel like we should we need to move this forward from from their standpoint as well. So if you have any questions, I’d be happy to answer them for you. Or we can pass on questions to Gus and get back to you as to you as well. Thank you. Oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead. There was one other thing that I did want to get your input. So one of the next steps would be perhaps making a presentation to the parks and recreation advisory board. They’re the ones that kind of look at utilizing funds for various things. So I thought, Mr. Chairman, or somebody else could maybe join staff when we get that scheduled. I think that would that would really be helpful as well.
Unknown Speaker 14:25
Sure, yep. I’d be happy to do that. I don’t, we probably don’t want the whole board down there. That turns into public hearing. But if there’s another Commissioner that would be excited about that, then I think that would be a welcome. Yeah, I appreciate that. That’s, that’s great to hear. This is much more in line with the, with my thinking, at least in terms of what might be required to stabilize. So yeah, I really appreciate that. So we do have some commissioners with questions. I’m going to call on Commissioner Hardy’s first
Unknown Speaker 15:00
Oh, yeah, that’s really exciting that building may have similar life. There was just one one item in the Escobar report. And I’m trying to find it now, but it referred to putting plywood on the inside of the exterior walls for lateral bracing. And I just wonder if maybe he would also look at threaded rods and turnbuckles that could keep the appearance of the inside of the barn intact, but provide that kind of bracing in a gentler fashion.
Unknown Speaker 15:37
It would run through the building
Unknown Speaker 15:39
while they would do cross bracing, and then you can cinch those up with the turnbuckles. Okay, you know, to help get the building plumb and then it stays in place as lateral bracing.
Unknown Speaker 15:52
Okay. And that might work instead of the plywood being. Sure, yeah. Yeah. Good. Okay. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 16:03
Okay. See? Commissioner Jacoby?
Unknown Speaker 16:11
Yeah, I echo your thoughts. It’s wonderful to hear that we might be moving forward and preserving the barn. It might be premature at this point. But I’m curious, are there plans to make it the exterior space available to the public? Or will it be more just preserved and used for maintenance for the parks department? Are we going to have signs out in front talking about the history of the Homestead? Or is it just going to be mostly for storage? And we’re going to maintain it as a city if we move forward with this? I don’t know if you have thoughts on that?
Unknown Speaker 16:45
Well, I think we talked about perhaps some interpretive signage that’s on the trail that’s close to the barn. But we’ve really only talked about because we’re really not going to be able to bring it up to code that we just try and keep at least the inside for storage purposes, mainly. Hopefully, we don’t have put a fence around it, I would hope we would need to do that. But I think that’s about it. At this point, we haven’t really delved a lot in a lot of depth.
Unknown Speaker 17:18
I’d like to point out just of all the photos of the barn that we have, almost all the doors and windows are open. And the current owners are concerned about vagrants in there. And that that’s some was tantamount to demolition by neglect, right there if the barn were to have a fire or something, and it’d be nice if they could close it up. But that’s again up to them. And but yeah, I offered to go talk to parks and rec to about the history of the Homestead, if you would like but alright, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 17:50
Yeah. Any other Commissioner Comments, questions? I do have a question about the application moving forward. So when they came back to us last time, there were a number of proposals for, you know, various features, signage, video inside the store, you know, there’s some hint of the buildings that were that would be demolished? What if any of those are currently included in the application as it stands?
Unknown Speaker 18:31
Well, you haven’t made a final recommendation on it yet. So they do have to return to you. So I would think some of those elements would still be part of the plan.
Unknown Speaker 18:41
Okay, so that’s still an option, we still have an opportunity to respond to that application, not moving forward, absent this Commission’s
Unknown Speaker 18:50
No, that’s something they would still have to complete before they could. Yeah, get final approval.
Unknown Speaker 18:55
Okay. Great. Thank you. Great. Well, that’s that’s very good news. And I appreciate your efforts on behalf of the town side. And I want to I want to call out the commission for being stout in holding ground. So this is it’s a real positive.
Unknown Speaker 19:15
I think when staff was out there was when we were experiencing 9090 mile an hour winds through the area. So I gotta hand it to them. They showed a lot of temerity to get out there and yeah,
Unknown Speaker 19:29
trust me, sitting inside the barn are standing inside the barn when the wind was Halloween and I felt relatively safe.
Unknown Speaker 19:39
There was one sheet of plywood I opted not to stand under.
Unknown Speaker 19:44
was just at the opening though. So that was
Unknown Speaker 19:47
probably wise. But as as I think even Gus Escobar mentioned it’s been there this long, right? It’s not the first 90 mile an hour wind that that building is seen so great. Well, that’s that’s excellent. Thank you. Sure. All right. Okay. And this is not a public hearing. So we don’t have any public comment about this particular item. All right. All right. So on to prior business updates on first, like it’s eight A would be the HPC code amendments?
Unknown Speaker 20:24
Yes, I’d like to give you an update on that we are getting close. We’ve talked to as we mentioned, we’ve hired outside counsel to help us put together the draft. And I think we mentioned to you kind of our first step would be discussing with city council, some of the policy issues and some of the legal issues that are coming up with the code so that it has been scheduled with council this month, and then we’re going to return to the and basically repeat that process with HBC. So your next meeting is July 7. I’m remembering that a couple on their team might have have an issue with July 7. But I thought, while we’ve got you here is July 7, is that gonna work? That’s the fourth of July week. And if not potentially the 14th, which would be one week later, I think we can have a special meeting in order to get everybody in in one place and had that meeting.
Unknown Speaker 21:30
And there might be a conflict with the 14 for the meeting. And here. I think there’s another board meeting
Unknown Speaker 21:36
on the dare they.
Unknown Speaker 21:39
All right, we might have to look at some different options if the seven doesn’t work.
Unknown Speaker 21:42
Yeah, we did review as a board the calendar at the beginning of the year and decided I don’t recall moving this one because we did because our natural first Thursday, but it did. No one objected to the Okay, to the date. So all right. So it would be really great if we could stick to this. Okay. And just to clarify, this is the in part, reviewing demolition ordinance that we’ve had out there for some time. So that’s exactly what we’re talking about.
Unknown Speaker 22:18
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And to clarify, because of the legal issues, the the discussion with counsel and subsequently with you will be an executive session. So it will be semi private, in order to kind of talk through the legal issues and our options. So that’s kind of the first step. Now, one of the other questions is, typically adoption of an amendment to the land development code would also go to Planning Commission. We’re looking at options on that. So then we may follow up with a work session with city council or work session with historic preservation commission and potentially the planning commission so that everybody’s kind of on the same page. So it looks like that’s how we’re spending our summer is talking about the historic preservation code, but it’s, it’s certainly worth it. But we’ll finalize what that schedule is gonna look like, in the weeks to come.
Unknown Speaker 23:19
Great. Thank you. Any questions, comments regarding the code have been scheduled? No. Okay. Great. Thank you. You bet. So then, eight, B would be an update on the historic preservation plan.
Unknown Speaker 23:36
Yeah, so that’s gonna be me. So I’m gonna be fairly brief. So last month, the Commission looked at several examples from surrounding communities, Boulder, Lewisville and Lafayette about their preservation plans that they currently have in place. I got the sense that the general thought was that the least of those three examples anyway, that Lewisville was probably the preferred example, just in terms of format and how its how was presented. And so staff reached out to staff at Lewisville, just to get some background information regarding that we also got copies of their request for proposal, and also the contract that they put together for putting together their their preservation plan. And so staff, our staff has been talking about that and putting together a scope of work for a preservation plan. We’re also exploring different funding options for the preservation plan, whether that would involve a potential grant application and or if we have the ability to fund that ourselves without a grant application. So we’re continuing to explore that. If, if the timing is right, and And you know, we can reach out and go through our purchasing process. And we have funding available there, there might be the possibility that we do the, you know, the plan ourselves without a grant application, but we’ll see how that kind of works out staff still having that conversation, and we’re going to meet with our purchasing, contracting staff as well, about that, that process. So we’ll keep you posted on that end. And then also, and I don’t know, if you have any specific questions about that, one thing I would perhaps like to do is, maybe reach out to History Colorado staff and see if they have any suggestions or recommendations of, you know, professional server, professionals that do these types of plans and see if they have any recommendations for staff to reach out to.
Unknown Speaker 25:59
These new mics are wild. Yes, I’m, I’m happy to help set up a meeting or facilitate that conversation whenever you’re ready. Okay, so if staff moves forward on their own without getting outside vendors to write it, I don’t know if we can do this, but I would volunteer to help with whatever that looks like.
Unknown Speaker 26:19
No, we’re not going to do it ourselves. Okay, then I understood, Brian,
Unknown Speaker 26:23
we would contract out for a consultant to do professional consultant to do the plan. We would not do the plan on our own, we would do something that somebody that’s actually qualified to do a plan.
Unknown Speaker 26:39
But you might help with an RFP, perhaps?
Unknown Speaker 26:42
Yeah, right. Yeah. Obviously, staff is limited in their capacity to put together and it probably take us 10 years to put together a map like this.
Unknown Speaker 26:54
misunderstanding, yes, I’ll volunteer to help out with any.
Unknown Speaker 26:57
Appreciate that. Yeah. And then like I said, we can share, like the said, the information I got from Lewisville, in terms of their RFP, their scope of work, the contract that they got, the consultant that they worked with, seemed pretty reasonable. I mean, obviously, this was 2015. And I think the contract at that time was less than $25,000. So we’re gonna see what options there are and opportunities we have with our purchasing process that we have with the city as well, in terms of what what those requirements are. And then kind of related to that is that last month’s meeting, we also talked about some grant opportunities, particularly some of the rolling grant opportunities. And then one, one in particular we talked about was survey grant, which is a rolling, continuous grant application. It’s a non competitive grant application, that’s potentially up to $15,000. And I think there’s a 10% city match for that. And you know, that’s an opportunity for the city to look more comprehensively in terms of what their priorities are for survey work in the community, what’s been done to date, what additional survey work that the community what their priorities are for survey work. And so that’s something that I think we want to undertake as well. Is is looking at and we bought my I want to reach out to history, Colorado staff as well and get some examples of those applications that have done been done in the past regarding these types of survey projects, and the grant applications. And so I think we’d like to pursue pursue that as well, in addition to the preservation plan. So I don’t know if the commission has any questions about that as well. So you’re working on kind of scopes for both of those aspects. Fantastic. Any commissioners
Unknown Speaker 28:49
have any questions, comments? All right, thank you. That’s perfect. I was gonna ask about the survey grants. I appreciate you bringing that up. Sure. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 28:59
I was gonna ask a question. Our last RFP, it was for something completely different. It was for a housing analysis, but we had nobody respond, because everybody was maxed out and hard to fill positions. And I don’t know if it’s that way in this world. I’m hoping there’s capacity out there but is that what you’re seeing Commissioner Holly, I mean, is there
Unknown Speaker 29:26
we’re also having trouble filling positions. I think there’s less issues with capacity with contracting with outside vendors. But people people are busy people are at at max. I don’t know what to tell you about that. So sorry.
Unknown Speaker 29:45
For best Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 29:47
we we’ve had to repost things a couple of times when we’ve been looking for vendors and staff. So yeah, we’re I’m again I’m happy to set up one meeting or multiple meetings with all the crud staff members who can answer these questions for you guys and even point you towards possible, folks. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 30:13
yeah, that’d be great. That’d be super. Okay. And see, you know, we could reach out to potential contractors and see what, you know, see what their schedules are, like, how far out their scheduling and what options might be available?
Unknown Speaker 30:26
Right, that’d be great. I think the RFP that when you’re referring to was one that the city is going to re issue based on timing. And that was one of the the hiccups in so if we can, if we can communicate with I’m sure there’s a very small pool of consultants that are going to provide preservation plans. Right. So understanding how best to frame that to get the biggest draw would probably be
Unknown Speaker 30:53
Did you guys have a cost attached to the mic? Because was it? Was it a cost issue? Do you think like, or was it open ended? And so it was like a full RFP?
Unknown Speaker 31:07
Yeah. We were able to reach out to the people who picked up the RFP and didn’t turn it in and ask them what we see issue and it was all about timing. Okay. It was partly because Dola allowed, let all this money out at one time. So we were competing with every city, I think in Colorado.
Unknown Speaker 31:27
Yeah, we’re having problems with that, too.
Unknown Speaker 31:31
I love the money. But yeah,
Unknown Speaker 31:33
well, and there’s short timeframes. So a lot of that is due to those COVID funds. And those those we used up within the next, like state fiscal ish. And so maybe, maybe next summer will, will be easier, no. doubt that we want to wait that long.
Unknown Speaker 31:54
Right. Right. Let’s see Commissioner Hardy’s.
Unknown Speaker 31:59
Yes, I just wanted to mention that I assume the city uses bednet, or one or the other. And the RFPs, that I’ve put responses together and gone to initial meetings for projects in recent months, have all been really well attended. So I mean, there are people who are still looking for, for the work. And it may be that you need to go outside the area, looking for consultants, you know, Kansas or New Mexico or some other, you know, surrounding state, they may be more inclined.
Unknown Speaker 32:44
Thank you. Let’s see. Commissioner booth.
Unknown Speaker 32:50
I just wanted to clarify, I did have to look up what RFP was.
Unknown Speaker 32:53
I’m afraid I’m not in the lingo. And so maybe for the public is a request for proposal. Right.
Unknown Speaker 33:00
So if it’s an RFP, it’s a request for proposal. If it’s an RFQ, it’s a request request for qualification. Oh, thank
Unknown Speaker 33:08
you. Yeah. Sorry about that. Yep. We get stuck in there. Yo, I know. There’s so many acronyms in the planning world.
Unknown Speaker 33:23
Yes. All right. Great. Well, that’s also good news. This is a very, a lot of positive, positive energy here today. Any other comments, questions from commissioners? All right. Thank you. Appreciate all the updates. We will go then, fairly quick meeting then on to comments from HPC. Commissioners. Anybody have a comment or statement that like to make? Commission Commissioner.
Unknown Speaker 33:57
I’m just excited about that barn and what this what’s been accomplished with that and even breaking it apart from the project or the potential breaking it apart so that the city is showing that it cares about what can happen with that property. So that’s just that’s really good news. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 34:18
Commissioner Norton, sorry, just trying to get myself organized.
Unknown Speaker 34:22
I’m just going to echo Commissioner goon. Thank you guys so much for how responsive you’ve been over the last several months. I know that it was I felt like it was hard for us as a commission to get our feet under us, especially during COVID. And I think there was lots of reasons for that. But you’ve really done a great job in addressing our concerns in these meetings. And I think the dickens barn is a really good example of that. And I really appreciate going back and taking a third look. And I appreciate moving forward with the amendments in the historic Press. vacation plans. So thank you so much to all the staff for all your hard work.
Unknown Speaker 35:08
Unknown Speaker 35:11
Yeah, I just wanted to add, I forgot to mention earlier that I’d also be very interested in volunteering help if you’re putting together a request for proposal or, or scope of work. I’ve had a lot of experience, trying to deal with those from the other end. And I’d be happy to help look at that when the time comes.
Unknown Speaker 35:33
Okay. All right, great. Seeing no others in the queue. We’ll move on to comments from city council representative and unfortunately, our council representatives, not here. So have any comments from Councilman Rodriguez, which moves us to adjournment? Which might be one of the fastest meetings we’ve had in a while but that’s okay. I guess. It’s faster when you’re not. It is faster and went off to wait for five minutes. Every time. There’s, you know, potential for public comment. That’s certainly true. Do I have a motion? Oh, let’s see. Commissioner Sibley
Unknown Speaker 36:23
aye. Motion to adjourn.
Unknown Speaker 36:26
We have a second mic or otherwise. All right. Motion from Commissioner Sibley and a second by Commissioner Hardys All in favor of a German please raise your hand. Well, we are adjourned. Thank you. Good night.