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Senior Citizens Advisory Board Meeting – January 6, 2021

Video Description:
Senior Citizens Advisory Board Meeting – January 6, 2021

For a transcript of the meeting, please read below:

Meeting Transcription Disclaimer:

Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

To listen to the meeting alongside a transcript, please visit:

https://otter.ai/u/H4aLgOZfdhhf75ny-TmBdDw1dV0

0:00
I would like to call the meeting to order. And those present today are myself. Marcia Martin, she looked on Royces and ailing. Julie house art. Michelle preca. And routes

0:23
harder.

0:26
Do we have any guests this morning? I see no guests. I hear no guests.

0:34
I had no invitations or requests.

0:40
As far as reviewing protocol, I think we’re going to be voting on some things today like officers and raise of hand where they can be see if everyone is comfortable with that. We’ll be okay. All right. Well, introductions and welcomes. I would like to introduce Julie and Sheila as our new board members and welcome them. They’re all very well known to us. So I think that their introduction has preceded them here today.

1:30
We have no public to be heard. Has everyone had the opportunity to review the minutes from last meeting? And if so, are there any corrections?

1:44
I see no corrections. I think Sarah did a commendable job as usual. And I would move that we accept the meeting minutes as written

1:54
here a second for that. The movement was made by Susan and second is by art improvements. Michelle. So you can note that

2:09
I’m

2:13
moving on to old business. We’ve welcomed the new board members. And I know this is a real exciting time for every one because we want to confirm officers for 2021. And I am anxious to hear if there are those people that are interested in the president next year. Where all those hands, no hands, Susan.

2:55
I will be glad to step up. Perhaps someone’s interested in being Secretary I was thinking perhaps you produce.

3:08
Sure. Whoa, 211.

3:13
All right.

3:13
I’m

3:19
Vice President. All right. Art’s gonna do vice president i love it. This is great. Now, I’m not sure of the protocol, Michel, perhaps you can either motion for each position.

3:46
You can do a motion by position or you can do a motion for the slight and if somebody wants to, to. However, whoever makes the motion would like to do that and then a second and then a vote.

4:00
I’ll make a motion for the slate.

4:03
I’ll second that.

4:08
The slate will be citizen for president or vice president and prudent for Secretary

4:21
and then a vote on that. Janine.

4:24
Can we have a motion for accepting those people in positions and it has been seconded we can show hands for those who are eyes. One Two.

4:42
Rutan’s. Raise your hand there she’s got water.

4:45
Okay, got it.

4:48
The eyes habit everyone has voted to approve. So congratulations and citizen. I am very happy to help in any way I can.

5:03
Thank you, Janine, you’ve done a great job this year. Appreciate it.

5:06
Thank you all. Yeah, great.

5:09
Thank you. Now, positions are available for.

5:21
So this is how I read the December minutes. I’m in, and Michelle kriega, maybe you have an update from TRG. But at this point, Michelle M is on the city’s technical review group, that is the affordable housing group that does fund recommendation, and she is your representative till the end of March. And I don’t know, Michelle, what you’re thinking about, if something were to happen, you’d shoot an email to myself or to Susan now and we share that or how you want to do that. And that position, my understanding is the TRG might be undergoing some changes to how they operate, maybe have an update on that maybe we won’t need to refill that in April. So that’s one. And then jack wanted to continue on the sustainability committee, but that we don’t have any information about how he if he wants to continue to relay that or represent you, or if there’s somebody else on the current board, who’d like to step in and join that sustainability committee. So those were the two that didn’t jump out at me from the minutes as to having any resolution. So, Michelle, do you want to talk a little bit about the TRG? And what you know,

6:49
well, I,

6:51
I know that there was a there has been some structural change, it used to be that TRG would meet. And then they would send information to the HHS or whatever the housing, the larger board. And so towards the end of the year, that got changed, where there were joint meetings with the applicants for money for housing development. And I know that there was a kind of last minute request for money and, and it went before the housing board, and I wasn’t able to attend. So I don’t know what’s going on with that. I know there’s something coming up right now with cinnamon part, which is actually relevant to this group. But there’s just we’re just in the process of trying to organize a time when everybody can meet and there’s kind of fast trying to fast track it a little bit. As far as restructuring, I don’t really I haven’t heard anything about any restructuring that would. So anyway, I can’t respond to that, because I don’t I don’t know what’s going on. And, and if that would eliminate our kind of participation in that or the need for some reps representative from the board. But and I’m happy to do, I guess what I’ll do is just kind of keep an email touch with you, Michelle, and you, Susan, through I know, through March or until March, I don’t know. So I’m happy to do that.

8:41
So we should just kind of hold this spot until we know more about the structural piece and some some way maybe February or March, you’ll have some information.

8:52
Well, now that you’ve alerted me, I made maybe I’ll reach out to Kathy

8:55
Yeah, she’s been out. But she is now back work and she’s working from home, but she is working. So she should she should be response. Okay. Okay,

9:09
should I make a motion that Michelle remains in that position?

9:17
I think we already did that. Jenny.

9:19
I thought we did it last last month.

9:22
So I’m gonna put this down as a future agenda item for later in the spring, if that makes the most sense. Okay.

9:33
And sustainability. I was alternate to jack for sustainability. And I am willing to attend those meetings unless someone else is interested in having that position.

9:59
Can I hit Emotion on that if anyone out or if anyone is interested in being on sustainability

10:11
I motion that Jean Janine be our representative on the sustainability committee.

10:21
And any other old business?

10:27
Well, this is a little late in the game, but it’s probably important to say which is, according to your bylaws, so you are now a board of six. Typically, the advisory boards have an odd number with an alternate, and you are you don’t have that seventh position and you don’t have an alternate, the bylaws read a quorum is four. And it actually says four in the bylaws. So I think that still stands true for a vote of six of you. So I just want to just point that out, and acknowledge that if there were a tie, for some reason, a three three thing, and my experience has been as the president doesn’t vote. But I don’t know if one of you want to just sort of say until we fill those other positions, if you want to identify how you want to do a tie if there was one, just so we have this done, before we would ever need to employ it. So I’m just throwing it out there. It’s not really old business, but I don’t want to move too far along in the agenda.

11:50
So are we still on the hunt for another person.

11:58
So that’s actually an agenda item down under New Business Council, and maybe Marsha can update us, but they won’t do appointments again until late spring. So we have some time to do some recruitments. But it will likely be a board of six for the next several months anyways.

12:23
And I’m happy to step back so that there if there’s a tie vote, don’t count me. That’s fine.

12:34
We need to make a motion for that.

12:37
You know, I don’t I think it would be helpful just to have an agreement about how you want to do time. Yeah.

12:44
So

12:47
I see your show hands for people that accept that agreement that in the event of the time that Susan will step back from abode. Hey, that would be all of us. Alrighty.

13:09
Good thing, we’re not split down the middle on that one.

13:13
We’d let Marcia make this show for the higher authority.

13:22
Alright, moving on to new business health and wellness facility.

13:31
Yeah, so that’s on my agenda item and I don’t know how many of you know the history how many or you have been familiar but since 2001, Longmont united hospital has had a presence here at the senior center. They have had office space, they have had a massage room. They have been a partner in doing health, education programs, health screenings, cancer, skin, cancer screenings, etc. Balance screenings. And so early last year, and even late fall of 2019 Longmont united hospital started making changes. And over the course of the last year, year and a half, they have closed their Center for Health integrated medicine. They have laid off their massage therapists, their staff. That core entity whom we’ve had the relationship with no longer really exists. They still have an office here, though no one’s been occupying it since we’ve been closed due to COVID. So I’m throwing this idea out there. We wrote that scope of services 20 years ago. ago, Longmont united the YMCA were applicants to move in and be a health and wellness partner. Is it time to maybe use this closure time and the re kind of rethinking it l u h to redesign, a reopen, redo a health and wellness scope of services and look for an a different approach. Maybe not a different partner. But I’m just kind of thrown that this this open to you all you as a board. 20 years ago, the board chose the health and wellness provider who moved into the senior center, you would be involved in this if we go this route. So I’m just kind of throwing the doors open, wiping the slate clean and see what you think, prudence?

15:56
How were the health and wellness services? Do we know what their utilization is? And what they used was some use than some not used, I guess is is really where I’m aiming?

16:12
Yeah, great question. So we stuck with a regular free nurse clinic for the last 20 years. It never gained the numbers that I wanted it to gain. But also during that 20 years, Walgreens did flu, you know, free flu shots. And you could go to any pharmacy on a certain day and talk to somebody about something. So it never, it never really gained the traction. I wanted it to gain the massage. On the days that was here was very popular. They were key in our health education programs, because they had all the contacts with the physicians and the nurse practitioners and the specialists. They had their finger on the pulse of what was happening in the healthcare world. We were really fortunate we have some pretty innovative folks who were on staff, and we did programs on sexuality. We did programs on death and dying and choice around death and dying we we did a lot of, I think, pretty cutting edge, innovative kinds of things because of their partnership. Again, it wasn’t always super significant, like 300 people showed up. But but it was important, and it was good. And it was balanced from a traditional metal medicine to

17:47
more

17:49
complimentary medicine. So we have that whole that whole range.

17:55
Yeah. Susan, and that is probably the most missed part of the senior center for me, I would attend those seminars, the lectures and bring that back to the community. I would use the massage. I attended the death and dying clinics. I found it fascinating and well worth the time and effort spent to have this in the senior center.

18:32
Janine and then Sheila.

18:37
So your question, Michelle? Yes, I think we need to continue to pursue, you know, whether we need to alter the program or not. I think that the health and wellness aspect at the senior center is extremely important to be able to offer that to people in need. And I have mentioned before that, especially under the circumstances, I am more than happy to volunteer in any way. I can. I know that there were there were massage therapy groups that were like, oh, at the hospital like I also know that they are currently they have a private practice. Right, they’ve opened a private practice. So I’m wondering if we might be able to contact them and see if they are still interested in supporting the senior center in some way. And if attendance is an issue, then, you know, maybe we can alter the number of programs that are Presented without deeply eliminating those programs because I think they’re extremely important.

20:08
Sheila

20:10
Yes. You mentioned the, the flu shots. And that’s really gone by the wayside as far as including that in the health and wellness. What other Excuse me, what other activities do you feel are underutilized in a world that could be eliminated in the reincarnation?

20:32
Yeah, I think that,

20:33
um

20:36
that so along the way, we did some acupuncture, that was great. And then as Longmont grew, we had a private acupuncture clinics pop up, you know, and we were able to make adjustments with along the way with some things. One of my disappointments was that originally Longmont, United hospital, managed a foot clinic, and they got out of the foot clinic business. And so we had an agreement with a private foot care provider, I want that to come back. But I want it to be under the management of health care organization, I don’t, I don’t want to have to manage the rules and the regs around that. So I want foot care to come back. I want massage to come back. I want health education to come back. And one of the really great things about the partnership was their staff and our staff would come together. So every quarter they would meet and they would talk about what are you seeing and so we did a whole series on incontinence. Um, because several folks throughout the center, we’re working with people who are really struggling, who were becoming very isolated because of their incontinence who were really not getting the treatment. They felt like they needed for their incontinence. And so that partnership around programming is really where the creativity came from Sheila and where new programs would emerge or new I, you know, new educational things would emerge. And I, that partnership was key to keeping things fresh, and innovative and people coming. And so the services side massage foot clinic nurse clinic. The foot clinic is probably the number one request I get. Why don’t we have foot clinic services here? So that’s, that’s old, but but going forward, what are we going to do around pandemics? What are we going to do about our immune system building our immune systems? I mean, there is so much coming at us. That’s new. I’d like to have a health partner who’s a part of that. prudence, it looks like you were about to say something.

23:03
I think Marcia was ahead of me.

23:05
Oh, I’m sorry. Go Marsha. Sorry. That’s

23:07
okay. No, actually, you pretty much said I was just gonna weigh in is a diabetic who, you know, losing visual acuity, or is hard. Right. And even though I’d haven’t used the clinic, I recognize that as a really high need.

23:27
It’s so interesting, the number of people who want to come here for foot care. In a doctor’s office, it just I find it just interesting, you know, because there’s not much privacy here. But

23:46
I need to mute for a minute.

23:51
Um, I was thinking of one of the things you said, Michelle is that that the nurse, the nurse, of him or herself, was not the most popular. So I’m also thinking whether we can expand the program to do something like arthritis management. And that’s the use of an occupational therapist. They’re the ones who really are the people who deal with your hands and stuff like that. And then I was also thinking of, and it could be an occupational therapist aide, whoever our partner is, or a physical therapist, aide or PT, whoever our partner is, to work on. Walking and balance. I know that there are classes for that. However, With both those things, arthritis and balance and walking, they come up gradually, and sometimes suddenly. Yeah, you know, and I think that, you know that those are just some ideas I had about that. I want

25:19
to come back to that prudence. Janine, go ahead, but you’re still muted. There you go.

25:24
Um, I just want to mention that if in any way possible, if we can work with and negotiate with, you know, a hospital or an organization, you know, part of my concerns in doing things, senior centers that I could easily do to support have to do with malpractice. And when you talk about procedural things, be it massage or acupuncture or foot here, it’s very important that the person that even if they’re volunteering, those services are covered with some type of malpractice coverage, and that there is consideration for HIPAA. That’s just the legal stuff that evolves around that. And I think that before, we didn’t have to worry about that because it was through the hospital, Vermont united. So as we pursue bringing this these programs back, I think that we need to pay attention to having a partner to address these issues.

26:50
So that’s kind of back to my initial question at some level. So we’ve had a partnership with Longmont United for 20, nearly 20 years. In the course of the 20 years, we now have UC health as a community health, hospital and community health care provider, Kaiser has grown their services over the last 20 years. And then we have others, you know, that have, at least in my lifetime here have have grown. One of so so I need to end the current relationship with Longmont united, if we’re going to open up a new scope of services. And I want to be really clear, they have been a fabulous partner, and between their corporate changes and COVID. It’s been very hard to keep that partnership connected. And I also think it’s a an opportune time to sort of rewrite the scope and prudence, you’re identifying arthritis, do they have PTs and OTS, they can bring in and do work balance, we’ve we’ve always sort of done balance in September. And it’s really a year round thing. That balance is not just a fall thing. I care and dental care. Most hospitals don’t don’t have strong AI in dental. But what they do get is the person who let their dental issues go unchecked and they end up in the ICU with a infection throughout their body because of their lack of oral health. So I am interested in rewriting what we’re looking for and Longmont united can add could absolutely apply for sure. And I would hope other partners would apply. And then we would come back and review that as a as a board. So first, we would write that scope, and then we would review any applicants who might be interested in being that onsite partner. So I am curious, because some of you have an affiliation with Longmont united, you know, what a great partner they’ve been. Do we rewrite the scope and open it up? How do you feel about the gentle goodbye to long fight united and then re issuing? It’s,

29:30
um,

29:31
I am aware that there are there are other issues in the community. I’m trying to be very respectful and appreciative of Longmont united, but I also recognize this is a it’s a tender thing, I guess. So. Janine

29:56
is, what is the status of Longmont united I mean, our, the way I look at it, I am willing to work with partnerships with whoever is willing to work with us. And I know, certainly part of the issue for them was cutting back financially. So for me, I had no problem whatsoever with what they were providing and was very appreciative of it. But I wonder if, you know, if they’re limited in what they are able to, to provide to us? And do we do? Do we need to, you know, look farther out unity, to get the services that we want to see

30:50
a pregnancy and then Susan.

30:54
So, Michelle, on I hate what everybody’s saying about loan Man United and they kind of I’ll use this word abandoned, you know, that warm pool and other services. So I’m not really sure if their continued interest. And I’m wondering whether we need one provider, or whether we can say, Okay, let’s approach let’s make a list of who we can approach. acupuncturist, massage therapist, the foot, I understand completely. And I’m wondering whether I think it was odd was odd a dentist because he was going to reach out to some people he knew about maybe once a month or quarterly clinic for dental care. I don’t know whether that happened I had sent him because there is a dental society,

31:58
right gentlelady had reached down and we were headed down that path until COVID. Scheduled we had to cancel.

32:06
Okay, okay. Cuz I think I’m dead. The dentist is probably the first person who notices the diabetes. Right?

32:16
So,

32:17
um,

32:18
if that’s, that’s a partnership that I would like to see grow, and I think as far as long as not united. You know, I think it’s pretty up in the air what they really want to do.

32:30
So I did get an email. Oh, Susan. And then I see Marsha. So go ahead, Susan. Sorry. Well, in

32:37
addition to the list you already have hearing is pretty important. I had five people screened in to got hearing aids this past year. I think I know all the audiologists in Longmont. But you know, you also mentioned about foot care. And you’re surprised that people would rather come to the senior center. Well, you know, what the senior center is the heart of the community. As far as that goes, not only do you get your foot tended to, you get to see people and you know, a lot of this is preparing for when we can reopen. But just seeing and talking to people and oh, you just went to foot? What’s that all about? Where you can exchange ideas? And, you know, horror stories, whatever. Yeah. And education was so important. And the the nurse screening. I mean, that’s who caught my high blood pressure. So

33:37
there were people who did use the nurse clinic. It just was never great numbers. Well,

33:45
great numbers, but I’m important. It’s good. Well, Marsha,

33:49
well, first of all, just just background for me. Are the clinics, or were the clinics at the senior center free? Yes. Yeah. Well, that’s a big reason why you might want your foot care done here as opposed to

34:07
No, the foot care clinics were not free, but they took care. Yeah, so they they worked with folks. Yeah. So we were able to use some friends money, Marsha, for example, when they had massage going on, we would identify stressed out caregivers who were caring for an older person who were really kind of on the edge stress wise, and we could give them a free massage if they so chose. And so we did that in partnership with Longmont united and there were caregivers who definitely took advantage of that massage. So there were ways we we worked behind the scenes to make things affordable for people. So not always footcare but we could have if long Might united had retained management of that program, but they didn’t.

35:05
So what I was thinking was, is it possible to take a kind of a general contractor approach where, you know, a broad healthcare provider would have the main contractor with the senior center, and we would offer them the opportunity to have subcontractors.

35:29
Great idea,

35:30
throwing out the model.

35:33
Great. Great. Julie. And then art. Yeah, yeah.

35:37
So um, I really, I like that idea that Marsha brought up and with prudence. I agree. So I guess my question is, is that can we have more than one group providing those services? And then if we do have more than one group, who oversees that group? And who, who’s the main, the main go to that connects between the senior center and those practitioners? Because I think that there’s probably, we’re probably not going to find one provider that provides all those services, right. But I think all of those services are, are super important. And so can we figure out how to formulate this, so that we can have all those services. And then when it comes to online, united, it sounds like, you know, when they’re trying to cut costs, that they’re cutting out the services that are important to seniors, and so therefore, maybe they’re not as invested as they used to be. And so maybe we can somehow reconfigure the whole program, and then present it to them and see if they’re, they’re interested in that. And if they’re not, then we can step away from them. And maybe just give them the opportunity. But it sounds like to me from everything that I’ve heard, you know, throughout the last year of attending these meetings, is that they sort of they’re not they’re sort of one foot out. Alright.

37:08
I think we can see that. There’s definitely an interest in that and the need for that. The question I had was, when we had long Martin united hospital, was there any cost from the Center for them for coming in and doing those things?

37:26
I’m

37:28
a lead, so not really. And so if you charge for space for square footage, they got free space here. They had two offices, they got for free. They brought in their own technology. So we have quite a bit of Longmont united hospitals technology here. If they did a program, that there was a fee for we got the city Senior Center got 20% of that fee. If it was free, it was free. But we handled the registration. We did a lot of the publicity through the NGO. They did their own, but we did. We did publicity, they had free space. But they paid for copies. They paid for their own phone, they paid for their own computers, their own furniture. But it was that square footage that some might argue cost the city something that that’s not how I personally looked at it, but somebody more than that line. So here’s my thought and let me just throw this out. Oh, go ahead, prudence. Um,

38:40
I just had one comment. On I’m not sure whether Longmont united whoever was coming with providing some level,

38:51
especially when it comes to foot care.

38:53
That was bilingual and bicultural.

38:57
Yes, great point. And I actually just wrote bilingual down because we did have a nurse through Longmont united, who was doing a free nurse clinic bilingually once a month, we also did some programs in Spanish with their bilingual healthcare staff. And I think other providers, you see health Kaiser, they they have bilingual staff at this point, but it’s about tapping them. I’m wondering, great ideas, I’d like to sort of start to capture these as a scope of services. So we start with this is what we’re looking for. Julie’s thought that we could certainly approach Longmont united first and say, gee, can you deliver this and if not, we open it back up. Or and I have already had kind of a conversation with one of the Longmont united staff that we go ahead and an open Next up, and then they become a competitor. I think the one manager approach is what I need. I need somebody from the health care world who’s managing who they bring in. They’ve got to vet for quality they’ve got to vet for HIPAA and insurance and all of that. I don’t want to have to do that. I don’t want any of my staff to have to do that. So whether they bring in subcontractors or others, I don’t, that’s fine. There was a period of time where Longmont united would not bring in a presenter here, who was not long not united affiliated. And so I think as we write the scope of services, we want to be really clear that there is a broad use of the healthcare experts that are in this community. Eye Care dental care hearing. I think we write that into the scope of services that they’ve got to be willing to work with those issues, those providers who may or may not be affiliated with their hospital. You know, so I think if we write the scope of services first, and we we kind of know where where we’re headed. I will tell you, I did get an email from Longmont united hospital this week that they have hired a position called Senior Services navigator. I’ve no idea what that means. And, and I will follow up with with Mary and find out exactly what they’re thinking. But they they don’t appear to be reopening the health integrated Medicine Center. So and that’s okay. But it that’s a change. So does that seem appropriate? If I came back in February with a scope of services and you all could add to it?

42:04
Absolutely. Okay. All right.

42:08
Michelle, one quick question. Was counseling part of that one also? Or no?

42:17
Yeah. mental health counseling. It was not. Okay. No. That that is strictly a city. Brandi counselors. That’s that’s really us. And the hospitals. psychiatric and mental health services have been more along in emergency room. evaluation, not ongoing care, or ongoing service. Oh, they used to long my dad used to have a whole department but not anymore. Susan, were you gonna say something? I’m sorry. Yes. You

42:55
mentioned the senior navigator. I can just tell you from my experience, a nurse navigator in the cancer world helps sort through the resources you may need the side effect you may need. So I would think it would be more of their patients, maybe reentering, you know, the community after hospital stay or lining up what they need to come home.

43:19
Right. Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see, I know that UC health has a very strong senior program in Fort Collins called the Aspen club. They have done some marketing of an Aspen club here in Longmont. And of course, that was pre COVID. All of our work sort of got re focused the last nine months. So that, you know, there’s different approaches to what hospitals are doing. And I think certainly this pandemic has changed a lot. So with your Okay, and maybe a show of hands, I will follow up with Longmont united, put that on pause that do a scope of services. And then we will come back and decide whether we want to open that up to Longmont united or open it up to a broad group unless you all have an opinion about that today.

44:19
Marsha,

44:21
two things. First of all, just this is a city service kind of thing and and municipalities do business this way. I don’t think that long might united would take exception to saying we’re going to we’re going to have a bid round. I don’t think they’d have a problem with that. Right. The other thing is I just thought is something that might easily be left out because it’s not usual but I wonder if a COVID longhole screening clinic once in a while for at least the next year two until people understand would be a good service on the list. Because I’m hearing really frightening numbers of about the people who continue to have symptoms.

45:14
Long term issues, right?

45:17
Yeah. Thank you. Good one. So do you want to just do a show of hands? Or whether I’m so Okay, did you February scope of services? Yes or no? Yes. Okay.

45:33
Um, I

45:34
want to work towards sort of ending with Longmont united and doing an open competitive. Do you want to have Longmont united beef? Have a first? I don’t know, right of refusal. So open, competitive Show of hands 123. Okay. One by United first right of refusal. 123. All right. I

46:08
love that.

46:11
That that helps me to know where my conversation with Mary from Longmont united goes. So we’ll we’ll see. Yeah, Julie.

46:19
So honestly, I’m really, you know, I feel like there’s people who are on have been on the board longer and have had no the relationship. And so I’m sort of either way, you know, it’s really, it’s sort of, in my personal opinion is more up to the more senior members. And we’re just because you know, the situation a lot better than I do.

46:39
Well, and and so this is so, so I appreciate your advice on this, I may or may not follow it, actually, I may just say goodbye, and move forward. But it’s good to know where what you all are thinking and I appreciate that very much. A good Good, good part of being a social worker, as we are not afraid of termination. And it dork shots, and other things open up. And, and that’s and i’m not i’m okay with, with ending things and looking at what what happens. I want to get something in place that when I retire, it’s got some really good strength and longevity. And that’s important to me. And so I want to do this right, and I want your support. So we’ll we’ll figure that out. I’m not gonna make any rash decisions. But it’s good to know where y’all are. At Janine.

47:39
I have one consideration, Michelle, I think people need to be acknowledged for their past for the past 20 years, the other side of that, is they didn’t just cut all these services for no reason. And, you know, one of my concerns is establishing with them, if they may be in a position where they’re going to go through another sale. And, you know, I think that for right now, my sense of what’s going on there is that they’re kind of in a little bit of a precarious situation. So that might have, you know, that may be one of my concerns.

48:27
Well, you know, one of the one of the pieces that I didn’t speak to, that’s important to me is the partnership, the relationship, and that’s built on communication follow through trust. And, and I, my staff have experience with Kaiser with UC health with Longmont united on all of those things. And that’s actually part of the decision, I think is do they have an established track record, where they have follow through where they’ve been a good communicator, where they’re invested in a relationship. And I’m not sure how I how I build that into the scope of services, but that’s going to be telling for me and historically, Michelle Whitmore renita Megan, those three folks have been the heart of that partnership and the relationship. They’ve all been let go. Um, I don’t know the new person. So I got to figure out how we build that relationship partnership piece in so I’m still working on that one. So maybe I

49:49
will talk to

49:51
I’ll figure that out. I was gonna say wonder what my husband would say how good I am at that relationship partnership thing, but those are the elements That they can divert, you know, they can deliver maybe high quality services. But if they’re not communicating and talking and building, I don’t want them, you know that I can. I can go and hire or pay somebody to come in and deliver a great program, but I want something more. So I got to figure out how to craft that, Susan.

50:22
So if you’re going out to UC health, Pizer, etc, maybe disparate health is another one, you would offer that too.

50:37
Yeah, so there’s no limit. I mean, if the city like Marsha says city does this all the time, but it’s an open process? You never know who’s gonna apply. And as I said, 20 years ago, the YMCA competed, so. Yeah. Okay, thank you. I think that’s enough. But there’ll be more more to come. So thank you. Great, great discussion.

51:08
Hey, you guys. I’ve got another meeting in a few minutes, though. I’m gonna sign off and I’m gonna miss the rest. Miss you guys.

51:17
Michelle, thank you so much. I’m sad that we didn’t get to do flowers and certificates and food and celebrate you, but maybe back it later in the spring, we can reconvene and just do something sweet. It’d be more

51:32
sure somebody already promised that. So.

51:37
last meeting, I love it.

51:41
Union. Okay, you guys,

51:44
I’ll be in touch about TRG. And it’s nice.

51:47
I love I love this. I

51:49
love hearing What’s going on? So maybe I’ll

51:53
show.

51:55
Okay.

51:58
Why?

52:03
Um,

52:05
I’d like to move on to the spring board member

52:09
recruitment.

52:11
Michelle, do you have more information about that.

52:14
So I got some information from the City Clerk’s office, I’m going to put it in the spring go, we’ll put it out in our regular emails that are going out. And then work towards hopefully Marcia and company we’ll have some folks to interview in the spring to fill those two vacant positions. You all can certainly also, as you’re talking to people, let them know. We have a some other opportunities. And so I just want you to know, it won’t happen till probably what do you may, maybe Marsha? May or June. So we have several months to do some recruitment. So we hopefully we’ll we’ll move in that direction.

53:03
I have a question about that. If if we are able to recruit someone, do they go online and fill out an application? Just go online and pull up an application and fill it out? Yeah. And then it won’t be considered until later in the spring,

53:28
okay. And there was one person who had completed an application and and I think she hadn’t been a registered voter for a year. And so she had to withdraw. So maybe by June, her year will have been completed and she’ll be back in the running. I don’t I don’t know for sure. She’s a regular participant here. She’d be a really good board member. I was sad that that that kicked her out, but Yep, just go in, put your application in and go from there.

54:06
And did you say we have two positions for the senior board?

54:10
We do our one three year term and one one year alternate. Okay. And if folks are interested, they like Julie, they can come as a guest so you can always invite them to come and get a feel for it. It’s a good time. Yeah, yeah.

54:39
Bernie 21 goals. Susan you muted that should be corrected to 2021 goal, not portal open the senior center.

55:02
So, so I think that the C 2021 goals and a 2020 annual report are sort of linked. And and typically the outgoing president Jeanine would work on an annual report. And my staff and the friends board are also trying to figure out what is 2020 year end look like? What did we accomplish? And so I really think, Janine, the annual report for 2020 is probably very short and brief. And will look very different than past reports. And then I think, to Susan’s point, what are your goals going forward? Well, you have one now, which is the health and wellness partner ship. But if there are some others, I just want to invite you to think about this. This could be a February agenda item, or you could have discussion now however you want to, you want to move forward. So they’re they’re slightly linked, but I’m recognizing it’s an odd, odd time. Greetings, go ahead.

56:23
Just to say I’m leaving the meeting. Oh.

56:27
Happy New Year.

56:30
Thank you, prudence. happy to hear prudence. Sheila,

56:39
is it possible to get copies of the Year End reports for say the last two or three years?

56:47
Yes, I can send those to you. Okay. Thank you.

56:53
So, um, I am wondering if I know last year we met, and you assisted me with that annual report. And I’m wondering if that would be possible this year. Either at a center or on an soon either one, whatever would work for you. If you’re if you have time to do that. And shooter I know you’re rather a busy person states,

57:26
you know, Marsha,

57:27
I would love to do that. So I’ll set that up. I’m with a going to orange, we could actually probably meet in person in one of the rooms here, if that’s what your preference is. Or we can do it virtually. So whichever works.

57:45
I was wondering if Susan, you might be interested in joining us to get an experience about how that’s put

57:53
together. I would love to be an apprentice.

57:58
So one of the things. And I this is really more for Janine, but Susan, I can meet at the senior center. And that’s probably the best if we want to meet in person or we can do it. Zoom. So you all just tell me what your preference is.

58:14
I would love to meet in person. I don’t care have to wear a mask.

58:18
Me too. And I’m gonna be clean after today. So.

58:23
All right. So I am currently at the senior center Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays. Tuesdays and Thursdays. I’m actually up in your neck of the woods, Janine, I’m in Spring Creek. So I’ll look for the next week or two and set something up with you, Susan and Janine. Okay,

58:42
that sounds good.

58:43
Thank you.

58:46
And I think we can Susan, you can you and I and Janine, we can talk about goals for the year. If there’s anything anybody has they want to mention today, we can record that. Or we can have a more robust conversation in February.

59:08
Anyone have anything to add at this point?

59:24
I was going to ask Michelle, do you still have positions on you still? Do I understand you still have positions on the friends board as well?

59:35
You have one position on the friends board art? I think one.

59:41
Okay. And then the other question is, has there been any discussion yet on helping with taxes like that have in the past? Yeah. So

59:50
Larry and Maggie, who has been our volunteer coordinator are working out the details. Some of it was going to kind of revolve around the county. Moving away from red head. So hopefully we won’t have another spike of post Christmas post New Year’s spike. So they are working through that art and I believe that will happen.

1:00:12
And do we at this point? Can people call in for appointment chatter? We’re not doing any of that yet?

1:00:19
Not yet. Not yet. But do you want me to let you know when that happens?

1:00:24
Yes, please. Okay.

1:00:29
Michelle, in the go, it says January 21.

1:00:32
I knew it was the 20th or 21st.

1:00:35
First,

1:00:36
but I know that just in the last week, Susan, some information came through from AARP. And I just don’t know the details. So I’ll get that pulled together and send that out to the board.

1:00:48
Thank you. Yeah.

1:00:55
Shall we move on to reports?

1:00:58
Ella has a comment question.

1:01:02
I just have a quick question for Michelle. When she’s

1:01:10
doing minutes in Yeah, so go ahead.

1:01:14
Hi, I just wondered what the take up on virtual go has been? I know people have been taking classes and attending virtually has it has it been worthwhile.

1:01:31
So I think we’re up to about 1000 people have participated in various programs the last nine months. Obviously, that’s not our 10,000 a month that we were using that we were open. We’ve gotten really great feedback on people who are appreciating the weekly email newsletter. And then people are still coming by and picking up the hard, hard copies. So it’s not it’s not been terrible. But I don’t know that we had a goal. I don’t know what we that we knew what to expect. It’s been fun. We’ve had a former board member, Marietta, Gonzales, who now lives in California, she has participated in some of our programs and a former computer tech volunteer, Henry, who lives in North Carolina, he’s been delivering programs and participating. And so there’s been some kind of fun connections happening. So yeah, that’s great. Thank you. So is it to me for my report. Janine? Is that what you’d like to get? Your muted?

1:02:55
I was having a problem with my unmute. All right, I’d like to move on to reports. And the shell, you get to go first.

1:03:06
So just to think, well, maybe three things, but um, the friends annual meeting is January 26. At three o’clock, we have always invited the advisory board to attend that meeting, you will get an invitation. If you have been a donor to the friends, you will get an invitation but you will also get an invitation as an advisory board member. So be just on the alert for that it will be virtual, and it will be a zoom meeting. So you can either call in or video in,

1:03:45
um,

1:03:46
been a lot of questions the last two weeks about vaccines for older adults, vaccines for people living in senior independent living. And so just know that I am involved in that, um, there has been some interest in possibly using the senior center as a vaccination clinic for seniors. I don’t know if that’s going to happen or not. But I have certainly said yes, that’s a great use of the senior center, doing some advocacy on behalf of all of the independent senior living facilities, not just the LA ones, to make sure that we understand the communal living of high risk population and getting some doing some advocacy. Our city manager has also been doing that, as well as our public, Boulder County Public Health. So I think we’re all aware of the older adult Independent Living communities and, and being conscientious of the number of people over 70 who live there so people are calling wondering how How to Get in. I know somebody was on the phone for four hours at Kaiser trying to get signed up for a vaccine. So hopefully over the next week or two, that information will become more clear. And we will be a point of trying to get that information out to people. So we’re doing our best to be good advocates right now. And partners. Yes, Susan.

1:05:30
So on the next door website, the Boulder County Community Health had a form to fill out. And some of my neighbors have already been called they’re getting their vaccinations this week.

1:05:41
Yeah, it’s it’s about where your information where you get your information and getting on the list. Yeah. And I know some people’s general practitioners have called them and told them come in and get your shot. It’s just not not as easy for some as it has been for others. Yeah, Jenny.

1:06:01
Michelle, I

1:06:02
don’t know if it would come up. But if just for you to know, I am very willing to volunteer my time and services to administer vaccines. At the senior center, if in any way that comes up, it’s a possibility.

1:06:24
Yeah, that is great. Janine, thank you for that. And I have indicated we would need to do some things relative to our custodial staff, like bring them back from the rec centers. So right, like we’re taking care of the building. So we’ll see how that unfolds. But Okay. Thank you. Thanks for that. And I am and so we are still working with Longmont housing, very excited, we hired a regional asset manager. So some of the work I’ve been doing has a lot of the work is moving to Lisa. But I am still at Spring Creek two days a week. Amy is still very, very involved in the renovation at Aspen meadows and helping folks pack and move and come back, move back in and unpack. And so we’re still doing a lot of housing retention, eviction prevention work, and really trying to work with folks to help them stay safely housed so and that work will continue. I think our relationship with online housing and, and helping people stay housed will will continue long after they are fully staffed so that that also is continuing. And I think that’s it for me.

1:07:45
Marcia City Council,

1:07:48
before we move on on that, does anybody I mean, I don’t know that senior center, anybody else would have this information that maybe one of the other board members? Do we know? I mean, how many doses are actually coming into the city of Longmont late basis that people can actually get them. I mean, I’m like you, I tried to get a hold of VA for two days, trying to because I’m a veteran and seeing if I can get a shot there. And there’s lines are busy all the time. And I tried with Pfizer yesterday and I was on here for over an hour I still couldn’t get through anybody. So I didn’t know if anybody has any information. If people are asking questions, what can we tell them at this time?

1:08:38
You don’t know that answer. I’m going to look at you Marsha to see if you know anything. And if none of us really have that information, I’m happy to do some digging. But go ahead, Marsha.

1:08:53
Thank you, Michelle. There are several things related to a to arts question. I don’t have a direct answer. And it’s a question that I hadn’t heard before, whether we have, you know, any liaison to the Veterans Administration and we don’t even have a very good liaison relationship with the county in in some respects. You know, we’ve we’ve run into barriers trying to, to help people with housing assistance and stuff like that, because the people who control the various funds don’t talk to each other very well. And then that’s been a recent hobby horse of mine. So, first, last night’s city council meeting Did not you know, other than then completing pretty much by acclamation the reorganization of the housing authority. You know, nothing of direct relevance to the senior center really, really happened last night. Michelle, I wanted to ask, in terms of the Year End report, are are you? Or? Or would the new president or, you know, who will report to the council? You know, especially. Now, I think we’re going to be still virtual, but it doesn’t matter. We need, you know, I’d like to see. I’d like to see it on the council agenda. And I think it’s especially important, I would also hope that would include as much as you have, obviously, there are dependencies. But the reopening plan, even if it’s hooked to a milestone, rather than a date, would would be excellent, because I know a lot of people are missing the services and, and are bonsly planning their lives around it.

1:11:10
And so typically, it would be the president and myself. So it may end up being Janine, Susan, and I, and certainly all the board would be invited, but make a note of that Marsha, and, and I put on the February agenda to talk about the reopening because we actually are really starting to dive deep into that. So good, good, good timing for that.

1:11:34
Okay. All right, excellent. In terms of, of council policy and city policy, in my ombudsman, the Ombudsman part of my role as member of council, I have been noticing a lot of confusion and fear around applications for assistance. And, you know, you may be aware that is, especially with this eviction, moratorium being extended by tiny increments, so that people never know, when they could be hit by a notice to quit. You know, people need the assistance, and they are afraid to apply for it. Because there’s all of this, well, if I’m getting unemployment benefits, I’m not eligible. Right? And it’s illegal, right? You know, and so we really need to one, strengthen our liaison relationships with the people who control the various funds. You know, I talked to Karen Roni about it, and she could easily tell me who is administering the money and where the money is, but she couldn’t easily tell me how you find your way into accessing some of it if you have a need case. So we need to the you know, the phrase that I’ve been using is a no wrong door policy. where, you know, you don’t have to knock make, you don’t have to make more than one cold call. And, and we need to do outreach, get the message out that, you know, you’re not going to get in trouble because you applied for something you’re not eligible for, unless you live to try to make yourself eligible. And Harold last night, said, said something, I think very encouraging, which he says when you come to us for help, it is our job to get it right, to lead you through the process. So I think that’s a really important message for all of us in public service, and in outreach to take to heart because it’s pretty frightening the number of people who could be getting assistance, who aren’t. And you’re muted Michelle, by the way, because I hear you, I see you saying Yeah, but so that’s, that’s my main, excuse me message from the city is, is we all need to work harder at dispelling the fear and connecting people with help they need or whenever they do Finally, pull the plug on the eviction delays. You know, we’re gonna have a real crisis on our hands.

1:14:54
Yeah, there there are definitely also a number of folks who are in fear around accepting benefits because it puts them in jeopardy of their status. And in terms of their residency and citizenship, and so we’re, we’re really trying to find alternative ways for folks to make sure they can access support where wherever it comes from. So a great point, Marsha,

1:15:23
yep. Any any questions for me? Because that’s really, those are the main Oh, we should be getting the report soon. But they are looking at at breaking ground on on new Lh, a facilities on the land proximate to the suites. This spring, so you know, more. More housing is coming down the pike. There are, it seems like I say this every year, but they’re also a considerable load of of affordable housing of various sorts at the permit stage. And I’m, I’m hoping that we’re gonna

1:16:14
we’re gonna see more of it coming out of the ground. This spring. Okay, well, if nobody’s got any questions, I think I’m set.

1:16:34
area on aging. I think Sarah sent us all an email and an update on that. Did everyone received that email?

1:16:45
Okay.

1:16:46
Friends, Susan.

1:16:52
So again, Michelle stole my thunder, the big thing? Yeah, yeah. The big thing is they still have a vacancy. But the meeting, if you can attend on January 26, that would be good. They’re sorting out their officers, they’ve pretty much got everybody said except the vice president as of the meeting. And they’re working on closing out the old bank accounts. So everything can follow. Jean Cox, who oversees the investments, and it will all be at Greek Western, so that should be closed out shortly. And all our investments in checking account funds will be at the Great Western bank. We didn’t hear what you said, Janine.

1:18:15
I am I’m off mute. Can you hear now? I

1:18:18
can hear you.

1:18:19
Yeah. Okay. Is that meeting? A zoom meeting?

1:18:25
Yes.

1:18:32
TRG Michelle has already done her presentation. Boulder County, Latino coalition art. Do you have anything to report?

1:18:51
We did not meet that. We did not. So I have no report.

1:18:56
And I do want to just say that, although we lost, much loved and fabulous advocate. And Nino Gallo, who worked for Boulder County Community Action programs passed away from COVID. And it has been very, very hard. I think many of us have worked with Nino for many years. He has family members in the city and in the county, in different capacities. And so I think that the members of the Boulder County Latino coalition have taken this very hard as have many people. So I just want to acknowledge we lost we’ve lost many people. But in particular Nina was a wonderful advocate and fine human being and I’m sorry, that we had to say goodbye.

1:19:57
You know, I owe everybody an apology because In the council report, the first thing I should have mentioned, and I’m just dim on Wednesday mornings because of council evenings. But there was a mayoral proclamation last night designating yesterday which was Nino’s birthday, as Nino Gallo de. And there was a very, very touching set of remarks from Nino’s family. So you maybe everybody should should watch that if you weren’t on weren’t watching the council meeting last night, it’s online.

1:20:39
I I very much appreciate you saying that. Marsha, thank you.

1:20:44
I apologize for not getting to them early

1:20:55
Longmont Economic Development Partnership, I do not have anything to report

1:21:04
and sustainability.

1:21:05
I think we also received an email with a development. Michelle,

1:21:16
Marcia, Janine, I actually got a phone call this morning from Sarah Berry, who wanted me to sort of say two things. She references these in her report. But they are not a part of her report. She felt like she was sharing this as a community member not not as a board member. And she just wanted to let the board know that. She herself has used dispatched health dispatch health, and has had just fabulous experiences with despatch health. And you’ll see in her report, that they actually did a presentation to the aging Advisory Council. And she just wanted to let you all know that she’s had really great experience with them. I would say that during COVID, they have been a source for people who maybe had to do a regular blood draw, but didn’t want to go to their doctor’s office to do that. And dispatch health came to them, or they didn’t drive. So via for a period of time, you know, they couldn’t get to their doctor’s office and dispatch help would come to them. So she wanted me to give a shout out to dispatch help. The other thing in her report, she talks about Liz Parker from the DHS office giving an update on scams and frauds. And so Sarah wanted to also say she hopes that we will do some programs virtually, with Liz in the spring on scams and frauds. And that if you all were interested in having Liz come to one of your board meetings, that it might also be worthy of consideration. So you can that’s from Sarah, sort of on the side, I guess.

1:23:17
I’d like to add a little bit to that. I have had conversation with her as I’m working with a client right now, who’s been a victim of major fraud through the Resource Center. And it is beyond my belief how much of a problem it is especially since COVID. And seniors are so vulnerable. And cooperation with the district attorney’s office has been phenomenal. And I think it would be wonderful to have her come and do a little presentation for us. She’s she is really delightful. Does anyone else have any other statements issues? Questions, art?

1:24:22
Marsha, I won’t ask you the city yet with the chief of police position that looking at Philly?

1:24:33
Um, I have I have no reports. beyond what you already know that that the civic engagement survey is out there. I apologize. I don’t even know if it’s closed yet or not. But I don’t know where they are in terms of identifying candidates. I will make a note to find that out or next month, or if if you feel more urgent about it, I can send out a note to the group.

1:25:10
I’m just curious. Just curious.

1:25:13
I feel like the survey closes this Friday. I may be wrong, but I think it’s this this Friday the survey closes.

1:25:22
Yeah. If you haven’t taken it, then get in there. Yeah.

1:25:28
Shell I mean, yeah, for Michelle Hauer Veronica, the other intake folks are based and busy, are extremely busy or just solar,

1:25:39
they would tell you, they are busier than ever, and are so appreciative to have Melissa on board. So they have been doing a lot of resources work. Normally. Plus, now that we have this closer tie with the Housing Authority, there is a whole lot more going on for folks, especially the isolation cut off from other resources. And so Melissa, Amy and Veronica are busier than ever are. And they they have continued to do in person assistance, as the orders allowed us to do, and so where other agencies stopped doing home visits, I think Amy had three yesterday. Now it might be on the front porch, and all they might do is exchange papers. But they they are busier than ever. And so when Marcia or Janine was talking about the frauds and scams, I think we we’ve been doing mandatory elder abuse reports, we’re working on other scams there, that work didn’t end. And they continue to stay very, very busy. And they all Melissa and Veronica plus, Monica, have been involved in some of the specific COVID testing outreach clinics to Latino community members. And we’ve been doing end of life documents for people who are, you know, the COVID piece has really frightened them and their family members got a lovely, thank you note from one family member for helping pull that that end of life paperwork together. So they they continue to stay very, very busy.

1:27:40
And the final comment is just that, if you do get the vaccines or you get something that is going to be made available, that you may need some help with yours that’s out there at the center. I like Janine would be willing to help in any way I can, too. Whether it be taking people in translate whatever.

1:28:04
So are Thank you, thank you. And my understanding is that they need a place where people can get the shot and then wait 15 minutes I there’s a post post vaccine period of time. And I think that some traffic flow, as well as you know, just making sure everybody understands and and, and everything is communicated well. And that piece of things. I think they might absolutely want some volunteers so I will I will definitely pass your offer engineer’s along. Thank you. I just don’t know what that’s gonna look like yet.

1:28:44
Okay, you’re welcome.

1:28:48
To answer Julie’s question, the survey is on engaged Longmont and I will all love it’s easy to search for but all mail out the link after the meeting, I

1:29:00
want to thank you, Marcia. Michelle, I’m, I’m with our if I can help you know, I don’t have the medical background. But if I can help in any way, you know, just checking people in or, you know, just being with them after they’ve had their shopping, that kind of stuff. I have some time that I can volunteer as well.

1:29:22
Thank you so much. Appreciate that. I think one of the things we still need to talk about is for people who don’t have transportation, how would they get here? So I’m hoping to have a conversation with BIA about that. And if it comes to be that’ll be that’ll be another level of that clinic that I think we’re going to have to address.

1:29:48
Yeah, Susan. So would be not one week notice to people to get to their vaccine appointment, cultivators waiving the one week requirement to get back People to their vaccinations.

1:30:03
Good to know. Thank you.

1:30:07
I love cultivate.

1:30:12
Marsha, I

1:30:12
just wanted to make a comment you can pass it on. I thought that that questionnaire that came out about Director of Public Safety and what people were looking for and what was important to them. I think that was really well done. I don’t know if that if that was specific to Longmont, but I don’t think I’ve ever taken a questionnaire that comprehensive before and it really made me feel good about what the city’s considerations are in this position. So if you’re paying soon,

1:30:57
Yeah, I will. I will pass that on. I think I’ve said before, it is entirely up to the city manager about that hire. And I think he’s being tremendously sensitive to the community and conscientious about realizing that this may be long term, the decision he makes that affects us the most that and saving lhsaa. So yeah, I will pass that on. I actually don’t know who is responsible for designing that survey. But I’m sure he does. So

1:31:35
well. I actually do know who it was because cool. She is a former public safety employee, at least flesher so she was a longtime boulder sheriff. And then she came to work for Longmont police, and then she was a researcher. And so she was the designer with a group of folks who but that she has her doctorate in criminal justice research and analysis. So she’s really quite bright. And she did that so

1:32:08
well. You just know all kinds of cool stuff, don’t you? Michelle?

1:32:12
We’ve had a lot of great city employees come and go through my wife,

1:32:15
Tara, she’s one of them.

1:32:19
Good.

1:32:20
Well, you can pass it on to if you know her personally. Janine, we can’t hear you. I know you’re not muted. But

1:32:33
about now

1:32:34
that now

1:32:36
is okay. Does anyone else have any questions? Any other agenda statements before we take a motion to close the meeting? Okay, would someone like to make a motion to adjourn?

1:32:57
I would.

1:32:59
Close it.

1:33:04
Sheila’s second step motion.

1:33:07
Well,

1:33:07
thank you all please. Stay well and safe. And I personally am looking forward to getting back to the senior center now that we’re orient.

1:33:20
Yep. So take care, everybody. Happy dude.

1:33:25
Bye. Yeah.

1:33:28
They do yours. Right. Yeah.

1:33:30
Julie,

1:33:31
I will catch up with you about the manual just as soon as Monica lets me know it’s done. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you.