Airport Advisory Board – November 2023
Read along below:
Speaker 1 1:02
I’m gonna call our Thursday, November 9 2023. Airport Advisory Board meeting to order it. Would you mind calling the roll, please? Chairperson Harrison here. Your board member Steve
Unknown Speaker 1:23
Brown here. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. It’s about time. It’s nice to see everybody. First item on the agenda, as always is our public invited to be heard.
Speaker 1 1:38
Have one person sign up, but I believe it’s for an item later on. So whoever would like to come up and speak now is more than welcome to. There is still a final public invited we heard at the end as well. Melinda, you know the deal. But if you can start with your name and address, I’ll start a timer for five minutes and leave, I can turn on your microphone. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 2:02
Erica, good afternoon. Good evening, Melinda Jordan 1110 Twin Peaks circle Longmont. I think that’s all I had to do. It’s been a while I want to talk to you about the air show. We just had a really good call today with the innovation center of St. Vrain. Valley School District. And they’re all in and pulling together their resources and working on whether they can bring in the RV 12 that the kids have been building and have it as part of the display we’re talking manned and unmanned flight. For that the most, the best news I’ve gotten in the last couple of weeks was that the Colorado Springs air show, which was put to rest and then resurrected is going to be August 17 and 18th next year. And that is a show to go to it’s so good. And they’re going to have the Blue Angels in 2024. So August 17 18th, Colorado Springs to see the Blue Angels not competing with us. That was the best part. Wings over the Rockies exploration of flight we’re on their schedule for them to come. So then I would look into partner at the maintenance hangar space that we’ve usually didn’t KidSpace I’d like to bring that up a notch. and have that be you know, an education zone and future of aviation zone. All the education aspects st rain wings, over the Rockies, all that future stuff happening there from a kind of an age standpoint. And then the Innovation Center is going to send eight to 10 people and some mentors that will be manning their booths. So really good presence. And I’m going to move over to one on ones for the meetings with the volunteer crew through the holidays to stay on track with the items that are open, but avoid in person meetings because I looked at the calendar and couldn’t even figure out when to try to reserve the library for the next one. So we would go to in person meetings again in January. Hopefully we can partner with Levi and do it at the office. And then the last thing I was gonna bring up was that I got a they had the the Metro airport community meeting in the town of Superior two weeks ago did you get to go to that Levi? Okay, so hopefully he’ll have a report on that. Colin also went to that from the Innovation Center. And they were focused on noise and touching goes and somebody from California who helped somebody airport right under the LAX airspace, they banned touch and goes at the airport. And so that’s now seems to be maybe a little bit of the focus is the touch and go activity. But in the meantime, today I got an email from LPA asking for a liaison to the boulder airport LPA member to liaise with the boulder airport and as a part of all this effort, so So I did share that with colonists. Well, I’m trying not to sign up for more things. But it’s an interesting one. So I wanted to let you guys know. So it would be the ambassador native to KB, Cape vdu. Right, it’d be to you. And I asked them in response, who is their ambassador? Or who are their ambassadors for long lat? And we’ll see if I get a reply on that to know who represents us here with a Opa. But if and if we don’t have somebody, then we’ll step in. And it may be we don’t because we haven’t been battling problems lately. But we have and we will. So that was interesting. So I’ll keep an eye on that. And then, like said, I’m going to pivot over to one on ones for the air show. And we’re still drawing in additional new help and volunteers and sponsors and interest. So it’s looking good, we’re underway. But I think it’s the holidays just present so many challenges on the weekends that I’m not going to try to do in person meetings until January, and then we’ll ramp it up. I think that’s it. Thanks.
Speaker 1 6:03
Thank you, Melinda. Does anyone else wish to speak at this point? And I do want to double check. I have Bob liner signed up for seven A, and I will call you at seven A? Correct good. Seeing nobody else. going once going twice. We’ll move on to approval of August and September minutes. Board members, anyone have any revisions, changes? Comments on the minutes
Speaker 1 6:38
I will add mine for the September minutes. It does not list me as being absent as well.
Unknown Speaker 6:52
Otherwise no changes. Anyone else? Entertain a motion for approval then.
Unknown Speaker 7:00
approve the minutes. Motion.
Speaker 1 7:01
Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you leave updates from the airport manager.
Speaker 3 7:16
All right. So I’ve been kind of going back through his old minutes because it kind of trying to figure out where we left off last time. It’s been been such a while. But I think I got a pretty good list of kind of what we can talk about. Last one, we were talking about starting improvements to the airport perimeter. Oh, those are pretty much all been completed now. We repaved along the north side of it across all the taxiways and an effort to reduce fraud and stuff like that. There’s a few little spots left that they miss that we’re going to pick up. But apart from that, that’s all done. And there’s one patch, kind of on the northwest side that we’ve determined that city responsibility that if we pay will greatly reduce FOD. So we’re going to do that too. Let’s see. Airport drainage issue lately, I’ve been working with the city’s engineers, they did a tour of the airport. Not the airport engineers, the city engineers did a tour of the airport. And they found some things that weren’t draining like they thought they were. So next Monday we’re doing a another quick meeting to talk about what their potential requirements for the south side of the airport might be moving forward, kind of what I think is gonna come out of that they’re going to come out and do another assessment on what they would require prior to construction on the south side of the airport, which would be good because anything that gives us clarity moving forward on eventually what would be needed to be done being developed down there is is very important. Being able to kind of put everything together and have a super clear picture of what’s be required moving forward, of course, is going to have to happen before any kind of development happens. Let’s see, unfortunately, due to kind of, you know, getting people together, we missed an airport Advisory Board meeting in between when the CIP meetings were going on with the FAA, FAA. That would have been nice to get from the board. Not a lot really changed, though. Moving forward for 2020 for our big projects are going to be pavement rehab, and as a part of that is going to be a good look at the drainage on the ramp there that goes to towards the east side of the airport. There’s some issues with slow drainage on that end, and the completion of the wildlife fence project. Those are the next two big projects come out that also what came out of that. Apparently a little bit of pressure, the FAA, they’re really it seems they really want us to start focusing on doing some additional planning at the airport. They mentioned that they couldn’t think of a better use for are sitting there grant funds in a new airport master plan. So that seems to be a pressure point. So Talking about that now with the city and stuff like that. So potentially preparing to do a master plan within the next few years, potentially. That kind of sparked up due to some of the planning that’s been going around the airport. I know that the last meeting, I briefly mentioned that the city was speaking with the FAA about some potential planning issues, specifically the modern West developments on the east end of the airport. I know that the modern west to development has kind of gone back to the individuals that were supposed to be developing that to see if they can make accommodations for the FAA, to my understanding modern West developments is still moving forward. There were some meetings about that yesterday. But I haven’t spoken directly with the with Harold or with the FAA about what came from those meetings. What else? I did make it to the superior meeting. So that was an interesting experience. It was a listening session, actually. It was kind of if you get it Did anyone else? I don’t I assume no one else here made it. It was kind of an open forum where essentially the Colorado Attorney General was there a couple of local representatives and stuff like that. And they sat and they listened to complaints. And one of the things that I can attest to that came out of that. Actually, this coming Monday, I had an appointment with Cooper Anderson, who is the airport manager over at Greeley, he was supposed to come over and do a tour of our airport, he cancelled that because the Colorado Attorney General actually called him and asked to do a meeting with him. So he’s gonna go do that meeting. I said, it’s kind of ironic that the guy that wasn’t at the meeting he asked to do and just happens, you know, he’s just giving him a hard time and said, You should turn up the meeting. So you can know what he was going to ask you about that. But anyway, so the current attorney general is, you know, he’s least checking off those political checkboxes if going through the motions, and they’re talking to people, you know, professionals in the industry, about a primarily noise, that one of the main reasons I went to that meeting was to kind of get a feel for what the complaints were. So I took a tally on where people were from, took a tally on what their specific complaints were be. There were ones that seemed brother outrageous, and I disclude, you know, square to those now, your noise is literally driving me crazy, you know, I’m getting it, you know, but it was about three, I’d say about two thirds of the complaints were for noise and about 1/3 The complaint was related. So as we get, you know, more into it in the EPA final rulings, we’re gonna start hearing more and more about lead, stuff like that. It’s just an aside, I could talk about, you know, noise all day. That’s what I’ve done at airports my whole career. That’s kind of the big updates that I kind of wrote down on my list. I’m trying to think if I’ve missed anything, we did get an airport truck. Finally, we purchased from the DIA sale at cost this grand total out of pocket four grand, the plow on it was worth more than that. So that makes me happy. It’s in the shop right now. They put some new brakes and rotors on it. They’re tracing down a wire fault. And the light bar kind of really came with really nice light bar about a narrowband radio. So finally, we’ve got an airport truck that I can throw shovels in and stuff like that. And we can actually use out there on the airfield. Let’s see. Those are kind of the big items that we’ve had movement on lately. That’s what I got. Are there any questions or anything?
Unknown Speaker 13:38
Mr. So on the team?
Speaker 4 13:41
Yeah. So the drainage issue is that because of grading is it because of the there’s pipes that are not working?
Speaker 3 13:48
Specifically the on the the main ramp, I mean, when we talked about reassessing during the pavement, from what I can tell, when it was laid out and looking at the regional plans, looking how it’s laid up, if you guys can imagine the ramp, there’s kind of a dip in the middle the ramp, and it drains down the middle of it. And when we have super heavy rains, when it hits that east side of the ramp, it tends to not drink quickly enough is kind of the way it seems. So of course, I’ve had the engineers out there and they just had a preliminary look at it. They haven’t brought instruments out to check grading and stuff like that yet, but it seemed important enough, you know, just from what we were saying that we went ahead and we altered our CIP project a little bit for that pavement rehab to include pavement rehab and drainage improvements from the ramp, which in reality takes care of everything on the east end of the airport.
Speaker 5 14:43
Mr. Dean, a quick question. So the truck would be a long term thing is that pretty new or kind of age or wear and tear? It’s a 2014.
Speaker 3 14:50
So yeah, it’s pretty new. So if nothing else, it’s it’s a great stopgap measure. We actually the airport actually ordered a truck Last year, unfortunately, Chevy Ford had been way way back, particularly to give probably a little bit too much information, particularly for city contracts because they get about half the profit they do for city vehicles and they do on civilian vehicles. So as long as there’s a pressure for parts or a demand for trucks, we’re always going to be on the bottom of the totem pole. So last I heard we were at least a year out and you know, it probably more than that, for getting a new truck. This truck was a used dia truck to yellow ops truck, you know, for they had a pet a snow blade on it push on snow and stuff like that. It’s in good shape, you know, it’s good enough shape, I drove it back here and it ran real good. So I’m super happy with it. You know, worst case scenario, we use it until the new truck comes here. And then we we sell it for a profit, and then the money goes back to the airport. So be great.
Unknown Speaker 15:54
Thank you. Yep.
Unknown Speaker 15:57
Other questions for anyone? Mr. Shaw? Yeah. Back
Speaker 6 16:02
to the drainage. Couple of the tenants at the airport. Talk to me. Doug Lyles been having problems is that drainage part of that project?
Speaker 3 16:14
So anything that if you can kind of visualize now, I wish I had a I had a little map here somewhere why I do I don’t have anything to project it on, unfortunately. But if you can, I’m sure you can all visualize the airport where the main ramp is, and then how it goes to the east or those hangers, just the East and the main ramp. So pretty much everything drains, Laura around there, off the main ramp in front of the wind sock, and then goes to that drainage pond. Yeah. So
Speaker 6 16:42
hangers there, he was saying something. And then I know Doug Lyles been complaining about drainage.
Speaker 3 16:50
Yeah, that was a that was one of the first problems on aircraft actually came to me. So when that came last year, we did a preliminary assessment on most of it, they did a little bit of clean out to make things run as best as they could. And that kind of went on the radar. So the first as soon as we had engineers on board, right, when Garber hit, we went out, we walked that and they put it on our project list for the CIP good. Yep.
Speaker 1 17:13
Mr. 17. Hold on. I’m trying to hit the button. There you go.
Speaker 4 17:16
Do you have any updates on the tax reassessment for the hangars? I’ve
Speaker 3 17:21
heard? So that’s one of those things, unfortunately, I’m kind of looped out of. So all the data I get is kind of when I go to people and say, Hey, can you tell me about this? Can you tell me about that? What happened? And from what I can kind of gather, there’s kind of been mixed results. I’ve talked to some people that just seem still very upset about it. I’ve talked to a couple people say, hey, you know, that’s great. I fought it, and they cut it way back. So I’ve heard both things come from that. I don’t know if it’s dependent on the individual, how hard they push forward or fought it or what kind of came of it but it’s, it’s kind of blessed people are talking about I have a feeling that maybe most of the people that really find it hard probably got pretty good concessions out of it.
Unknown Speaker 18:02
Speaker 6 18:04
So I know a little bit, probably, because I own one of the hangars, and I’m part of the hangar association. So we went through the appeal. We went through the first appeal, and then and some people got it lowered. Some people did not okay. And the best way I can describe it is if there’s two hangars, same size, right next to each other one might be $5,000. The other one’s $1,500. So there’s no rhyme or reason for how they’re taxing people. And so we all just went through the second appeal process. And again, some people hanger went up in value, and a few people went down. And I don’t know if I say her name, but Lisa Bryant, who was the assessor for the airport, retired now had the problem and fought. And so now this the next phase is going to the State State Board of Equalization. And so that’s everybody that I’ve talked to is going to go through that process. Yeah, they’re, I mean, it’s ridiculously priced. He said that was the State Board of Equalization. And I don’t have my number for from the appeal yet. But the first appeal, it went up, went up oh The Well, when I got my tax, it went up from 400 to 6500. And then the appeal without doing anything, it went down to 2400. So, I mean, if you just take those two numbers, they don’t know what they’re doing. And they’re just, there’s, there’s no rhyme or reason. And in some cases, I have a larger hanger than most. And mine’s cheaper. But yet it still right now. You know, 600 times what I’m paying what I paid last year. So anyway, that’s what I know.
Unknown Speaker 20:52
Mr. salamati? Wow, that’s
Speaker 4 20:54
a very enlightening, and I’m very sorry. But I think it’s really important issue, because if there is any sales or changing of hands of these properties, then I’m assuming that these taxes will stick with it. So it’s important to get the equalization now, I’m assuming?
Speaker 6 21:11
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. It’s, it’s not gonna get any better.
Speaker 4 21:17
So leave, if there’s anything we can do? Let us know. Because I do think this is important issue that we should get.
Speaker 3 21:23
Yeah, that’s kind of how we approach it, too, is that there was enough outcry we went to it, we essentially we even got Harold to do a meeting with Boulder County. And during that meeting, Boulder County essentially said, this is our purview. You don’t have any power. Is this guy, you know, and of course, in much more polite political terms, but essentially, that was kind of the feeling that came out of that meeting. So yeah, that was my recommendation. I know before is essentially go it’s unfortunately, it’s not a city issue is a county issue. So just hit it hard on on the county. Commissioners? Yeah, that’d be a county. That would be the people to take it to for sure.
Speaker 6 22:02
But when you have the retired assessor, licensed appraiser saying what they’re doing is illegal. Yeah. Then you know, something’s wrong.
Speaker 3 22:18
That’s I’m sure in the outlets, you know, I’m just, I’m not an expert. That seems like a card in your pocket. I would certainly, that might be that makes, you know, maybe she should see what she’d get from the county commissioners and see, as she’s worked for him, right.
Unknown Speaker 22:40
Speaker 7 22:41
Who that that’s a terrible situation. But to change gears, I noticed something on the navigation easements seven, Item seven action items, Levi. Oh, since we’ve been out for a while, just wanted to kind of refresh that and see. Do we need anything from you? Do you need any from so actually,
Speaker 3 22:59
on that one, I think what we determined because after that was right at the last meeting, we were talking about navigation has been somewhat wanted to action item, I kind of ran that through the chain of command here. And I think what we determined at the moment, we’re going to kind of leave that to the planning department and we want them to kind of pick up the gear on the project, first of making things move on that and then if we need to do an official letter on it and move forward from there, but that’s something else that’s been a hot topic item, especially with the FAA being involved in planning issues around the city and stuff like that. So that’s going to have to be high high up there. I know that during one last meetings for the modern West development, they actually said that the city city did say that they would be requiring navigation easements for that. So
Speaker 7 23:50
now is it again just to get it right, abrogation versus navigation navigation right so that seven l should be abrogation easements.
Unknown Speaker 24:03
Seven you know, mine that was on
Speaker 3 24:15
I gotcha. Yeah, got it. It’s all unfortunately, the computer dictionaries don’t recognize the word navigation. So they autocorrect everything to navigation. So essentially, to fix that, you’d have to go to whatever computer using at the moment and teach it the word or else out.
Speaker 1 24:39
Also in that same change, I know we’ve already approved the minutes so slightly retroactively, we’ve got line five, six and nine. I’ll have that. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 24:51
Speaker 5 24:53
and one more quick, quick. So yeah, one more quick question. Last time they talked about the you’d updated on the parade our mitigation is there any more information about the cost or anything going on with that
Speaker 3 25:03
I set. So since the last time we met, been keeping an eye on that I’ve been kind of lazy about the last two or three weeks I’ve been going out there at least two mornings every weekend spend an hour or two out there just kind of observing, but recently haven’t been seen too much. We did have a little bit of Spike after the initial treatment. Since then, with spot treatments, things have kind of seemed to been peering off, we’re getting to winter, a black pill, a tear tail prey, dogs don’t hibernate, actually. So I’m kind of excited for coming into winter, because theoretically, we get a nice warm day. And all the greenery is now in and flat out there should be a lot easier for me to get my binoculars out there and spot anything that’s left. But what I’ve been doing is heading out there seeing where, you know, trying to visually spot where active holes are flagging them. And then the public’s crews work has been taking our little mitigation machine and going out there and spot treating. And so far, it seems to be acting pretty well. Of course, the true test will be this spring, when into early summer, when they’re little migrations start happening, and kind of see what potential little prairie dog explosion of population we get. But at the moment, the Public Works degrees, the city wildlife guys seem to agree that if it stays like this, that we can stay on top of this ourselves. Having said that, I’ve made it understood to the city like hey, this is a big FAA item. If I need to spend money on this, this is something that I feel comfortable spending money on. And we should probably just go ahead and do. And I think they’re everyone’s kind seems to be on the same page about that. Thank you.
Speaker 1 26:43
One thing I comment I was gonna make on masterplan that you brought up, you said sometime in the next couple of years, so the sense of
Speaker 3 26:51
so on, what how is on the CIP right now is on the 2025. So, during the CIA CIP meetings, the FAA essentially came back and they said, there’s no better you know, we, we think you should use grant money for a master plan, they initially pushed to half that on 2024. We use the city pushed back a little bit. And the main kind of reasoning behind that being, as we kind of already done all of our planning for 2024, as far as you know, allocating time and staff for doing projects and plans and stuff like that. So he said, Hey, you know, 2025 seems like something that would be a little more digestible. And the FAA kind of said, Okay, that’s understandable. There’s been some internal discussions on whether the city is ready to do that or not. I’m not a proponent of doing it just for the same for the mere fact that it seems that we’re kind of out of options. I push pretty hard with them to kind of say, Hey, can we just do an ALP update an airport layout plan update, would that be acceptable? I didn’t get much back on that I count around crossed our engineers I said, Hey, is there any way we could do an ALP update first, and then kind of roll that into a master plan, they kind of advised against that they said, if you do that, you’re gonna have to spend 100,000 Plus on an ALP update. And then you’re gonna have to turn around and do a master plan update and you’re not going to be essentially be able to use that ALP update you did in that new master plan, you’re gonna have to do a whole new one. So it’s not saving any money was kind of the way it was communicated to me. So that’s kind of where we’re hanging out right now. That’s all kind of in discussion right now with the city on what’s going to happen moving forward.
Speaker 1 28:38
I’ll do the obligatory disclaimer here. I work for an engineering consulting firm that we do baster plans. They are spectacularly expensive. And the new requirements the FAA is putting on them have extended timelines and budgets at airports I see. In middlee. I do commercial service ones so ever world, but it’s, it’s different than the last time long one did one, it’s going to be a lot more money a lot more time.
Speaker 3 29:02
Yeah. And I’ve already I kind of pointed that out during the ACP meetings, and it pretty much agreed I said, and we’re probably going to have to increase that figure by at least $100,000. And everybody went like, yeah, that probably sounds a little closer to what reality would be. I’ve made a kind of an argument to the city, whenever we wind up doing it. Now, you know, but if we do it in 2025, whether it gets pushed out further, now’s a great time to start thinking about what we’re going to prepare to do that plan. So I’ve I know, I’ve already updated the export Advisory Board, we started active tracking of all aircraft on the airport, using ATSB technology. So I’m getting exact figures for takeoff, landings operations overnight, stuff like that, that’ll be important. Of course, we’ve always tracking fuel cells, we need to figure out exactly what needs out of the airport, you know, what drainage needs will need to be improved in the future on the south side of the airport, potentially what needs to be going into that plan? etc, etc, etc, etc. Now’s the time if we think about that can make that measurable Mine way easier way actually gets to it. I
Speaker 1 30:03
agree with all that. And I know this is way too premature. I’ve been learning last couple of weeks about some of the ifas runway length justification processes that they’re changing. Oh, really strongly suggest that that be considered in a master plan that that is something that’s looked at pretty in
Speaker 3 30:19
detail. That’s interesting. I’d like to talk more about that in detail later, for sure. Yeah. And
Speaker 1 30:23
I’m not an engineer, so I don’t actually understand it. There are new tools that are rolling out next year, that should make that you should make it easier to at least see if you have a case. Okay,
Speaker 3 30:33
that’s, that’s good to know, anything they can do to make that a clear part of you know, how airports apply for things. That’s great, because right now, it’s not so clear of a process. Mr. Solomon,
Speaker 4 30:48
forgive my ignorance, but I would love to know a little bit more about the preparation and the planning that goes along with producing a master plan, I’m assuming it’s like a multi year process to in order to put something like that
Speaker 3 31:02
together, it’s a long process. It’s a very involved process. And as we’ve established, it’s an expensive process to, I’ve only kind of been, I’ve never really seen one personally, from start to finish, I’ve been in the middle of them. I’ve been on the tail end, I’ve been on the beginning of master plans before in different airports I’ve been at which kind of gives you an idea of, of kind of what’s involved in them and stuff like that. It’s not, it’s the FAA has good guidance on how you should conduct a master plan. There’s advisory circulars on it. So the first step is we’re going to have to pick a planning company. We cannot use the FAA wants you to split up your engineering proposal request for proposals and your planning requests for proposals. So we can’t just go with one, our engineers, we just selected, much to the city’s disappointment, because we went through that whole process. They said, Okay, we can just use this one, it’s like, well, no, that’s engineering, we got to do one for planning. So I have to put another request for proposal for planning, get that ball rolling. Once that’s kind of at that’s completed, we got someone on board, then we can actually go and say, Hey, we got someone on board to do all this planning, we need to set up allocating grant monies to get this plant taken care of. We can use grant monies to take care of that. From we are fortunate in the respect that we have lots of grant money that we can use. For that. We were unfortunate in the respect that if we use it for that we can’t use it for other things. Which, of course, is the nightmare. Then having said that we’re on year 11 of a 10 year master plan. And best case scenario, we’re going to be on your 1314 When we get a new master plan. So at the end of the day, no matter what we got our life out of our current master plan. So at least you know, they’re not they didn’t get upset and make us do it right at you know, your 10 or something like that. And we’re in the works of doing it. So
Speaker 4 32:52
it sounds like it’s something that you’re outsourcing is there a lot of work that we would be doing in preparation, there’s
Speaker 3 32:59
gonna be, there’s going to be a lot of work, and most of that’s going to fall on the airport manager, which is just kind of naturally the way it is, then that’s why I kind of made the case earlier today in the meeting I had with my boss that, hey, if we start thinking about this stuff now. I mean, they’re still in, oh my gosh, we don’t want to, you know, do this, which is completely understandable phase that the work involved, it is crazy. But if we kind of at least kind of start reciting terms of fact that sooner or later, we’re going to have to start doing this and start gathering the data to start thinking about we want that master plan look like now, it’s gonna make things way easier when we actually get to having to do it. So to finish your question, yeah, go out for proposals, slug someone, then we start applying for those grants to get that rolling, identifying the needs of the airport tracking stuff, operations, changes and community there’s going to be of course, what sparked this whole thing was planning around the airport here. That’s kind of where the FAA is pushing it so hard. So there’s gonna be a heavy heavy focus on that I’m sure. Moving forward, public engagements are going to be a big part of the airport master plan. There’s always challenges involved with public engagement. But I’m honestly I kind of look forward to that, I think it’s great to, to get it out there and have that discussion with the public. I mean, sooner rather than later is great, then they know what more we do to get out there and more do to engage him is is a good thing. At the end of that, the the planning people are going to take all that information, all that public engagement, all that put it together in a big thick document and give it to us. Most airports just say hey, great things. And the responsible thing to do is probably actually go through that document work with and make sure that it actually is something that’s this meeting our need moving forward. And then we got a new master plan then hopefully that’s you know, did more years of of master plan we’re gonna have until we got to do another one and the price is way more expensive at that time. But
Speaker 4 34:52
while I may be the least experienced on that topic, I would be willing to help you if you do do any help.
Speaker 1 35:00
I just had a no there is a masterplan web page on the airport’s website that does have the 2010 master plan FAQs, a whole bunch of the materials. So if you want some bedtime reading 240 pages, sounds great. I actually have a binder copy that someone left me, I’m happy to listen to you. And
Speaker 3 35:18
I have I have additional copies too. If anybody would like a physical copy of
Unknown Speaker 35:22
that. I’ve been keeping one with the board
Speaker 3 35:25
chair, you can find it in my little library there after the in the office. So
Speaker 1 35:32
Alright, any other questions from updates on the report? Manager? I think we’ve beat that to death otherwise. Mr. Shook
Speaker 6 35:41
any update on the FBO?
Speaker 3 35:46
Minimal updates on FBO. Right now, things are kind of moving out there, new lease was generated lease was put back for comment. And so we’re kind of in the middle of that, that position.
Unknown Speaker 36:00
That’s a good non answer.
Unknown Speaker 36:04
Hey, that’s where it’s at.
Unknown Speaker 36:07
Do we have any information items tonight,
Speaker 3 36:09
I’ve got one that I’d kind of like to throw out there, even though it wasn’t on here. One thing that’s kind of come up recently, we’ve been doing really in depth kind of reviews of you know, leasing, making sure we’re on point with stuff like that, um, some issues and errors were found. One thing that I kind of wanted to put out there is I potentially want to make a very minor language change to the leases moving forward, nothing retroactive. And I wanted to put it from the board to make sure you know, everybody’s been alerted. Right now, current language of the boilerplate lease says, leases will have a CPI increase on them on the anniversary lease, what I’d like to do moving forward is make them a CPI increase on the first of the year. This benefits everyone in my opinion. So it pushes back any potential increase that a hanger owner would have by however long it is to the end of the year. So if your lease is up in April, instead of applying that increase, then you just said increase applied, you know, next April. So it theoretically increases, you know, or benefits hangar owners. And on top of that, it also makes accounting much easier. One of the big issues we found while we were doing the audit on all the hangars was all of the different CPIs. And the past were causing a lot of confusion. It looks like from the research that we’ve been doing. David had been towards the end of his tenure began trying to kind of block apply CPI. Anyway, Jeff Coleman was certainly looks like he was block applying CPIs instead of doing it on it. And the recommendation of the our advisors was to, you know, you should do one CPI once a year to make all of this accounting way easier. So that’s something that I’d like to propose put out there to the airport board to give some comment back on.
Speaker 1 37:58
And I just want to make clear up front. And I’ll answer the questions I promise. We’ve in the past approved the lease template. So this would come back to us as an action item. In a future time to approve. Yeah, the leaf template adjustments.
Speaker 3 38:14
Yeah. So that’s, that’s kind of the idea. I just wanted to kind of give put that out there as an information item. And then maybe at a potential meeting, we could get a recommendation from the board after you guys had a kind of idea to think about that.
Speaker 4 38:29
Mr. Salomon team. So I don’t know whether the city is on accounting for fiscal year or calendar year, but I know the state is on a fiscal year starting in July. So I’m not sure how that’s going to impact your put your simplification of accounting, because it wouldn’t, assuming you guys are on the same accounting system. Schedule as the state not.
Unknown Speaker 38:54
Other questions on this information item? We’ll look forward to seeing it back. Alright, sounds good. Did you have any other ones like that? Or was that
Speaker 3 39:02
that’s kind of the the one pop up thing I had for this meeting? Yeah, just an adjustment for improving accounting.
Speaker 1 39:15
Action items, and I know we’ve kind of hit this a little bit for the obligation easements. We do have someone who’d like to speak about that. Okay, so I’m gonna open that up. Is there anything else that we need to say? Other than what was said before that the current plan? It’s sitting with the planning department right now? Yeah, it’s
Speaker 3 39:32
sitting with the planning department. And I know at last meeting, we were kind of like yeah, we should do an action item and I kind of ran that through them. And they tossed back and forth said Yeah, that might be a good idea and it but at the end of the day, they kind of came back and said, you know, we really need to get you know, things moving first, and kind of see where it is and then see if it’s it’s you know, it’s going to have to come to ceases much to say that they’re already going to require it. But we kind of need to get things rolling I think and then see if it kinda way was putting me then see if we need a letter to kind of push things forward quicker is kind of what it sounds like. It’s way it was explained to me anyway.
Unknown Speaker 40:09
Any questions from anyone on that before we Mr. shook?
Speaker 6 40:14
Are there any obligation, obligation easements there have
Speaker 3 40:17
an average gaze and easements applied? So I guess the best way to describe it, as you know, is times change and it’s become more of a thing and more of an awareness for planning departments, they’ve kind of started to apply those around. The navigation easements that I’ve read and I’ve seen that are in place already, kind of around that side of the city and around the airport are kind of going off things. It seems like they you know, they have this business. So they wrote up a navigation easement real quick. Navigation easements is one of the very first topics I took off on, on when I came onto the job. I went to City’s attorney’s offices, I said, Hey, we should talk about this, you know, fortunately for me, a month or so later than after that BJC has gotten big trouble with some of their navigation easements was perked up everybody’s ears around here. So we got some pretty good navigation easements written up in draft form. I City’s attorney’s office throws them up, we sent those back to some advisors. And they added to it, they from what I can tell, and I’ve been through multiple meetings with the drafts we had, they’re pretty good. Of course, anything before we would put into a final form, we would talk more in detail about and stuff like that. But they’re pretty rock solid. A lot of the failures of the past were from local airports, I won’t mention names, or kind of take into consideration when those were written. And I’ve actually run those by some of those individuals that had struggles with their navigation easements. And they said that they kind of liked that language in them, too. So yes, that’s kind of where that’s sitting at right now. We have them, the city has said that they will apply them I mean, no matter what anything that’s going up on that side of the city, and we just really just need now to get to a point where it’s established city procedure and code is where we need to get it. And then we don’t have to worry about it.
Unknown Speaker 42:14
That sounds very optimistic. Of course.
Unknown Speaker 42:18
Always always optimistic.
Speaker 1 42:19
I’m not seeing other board comments on that. So Mr. liner, you had said you’d like to speak about this. Come on up. And if you can engage
Speaker 8 42:28
in these moods. Bob liner? Well, 33 ways to record versus business at the airport. Levi, can
Unknown Speaker 42:37
you turn on the microphone?
Speaker 8 42:42
Thank you, Bob liner, from 1233 wagon wheel cord birth ID but we have a business and have at the airport now for some time and flown out of that airports and 79 been in the area since 58. app we’ve talked about city has talked about navigation easements for about 10 years and just kicked it around. And there I have two very strong feelings about the navigation easements. I am worried about the city coming up with their own without having it reviewed by somebody who has national experience. And that’s the A OPA from coast to coast, including probably the most. Oh, whatever California was probably the hardest for them to deal with. They at least should have a should be invited to review your navigation easement and comment on it. They have the experience of seeing these go into litigation across the country. And I can’t think of a better advocate for the city and for the airport to review them. The second thing is the navigation easements need a point of sale disclosure to make sure that the builder buyer acknowledges that there is a navigation easement. Those are two things that need to go together. It’s usually resisted strongly by realtors, but it is protection for the city would like to comment on the appraisals so we went through the process and there was a small reduction but it’s still a large increase. And we went through the video interview And the video interview was the appraiser and a what would you call? It was a referee or arbitrator? Yeah. So we went through. And there were serious deficiencies in the way they evaluated our property, they evaluate we have 17,000 acres, square feet of hangars. And they assume that all of it was heating, for example. And there are other small discrepancies. And that was noted the appraiser, the appraiser for the city was very defendant, but the adjuster there was listening to the different problems with the appraisals. We also then when you later got a that that goes to Boulder County, well, Boulder County listened to the appraiser and blew off everything else. So that’s the way it went. But we had seen a very level tax rate over 10 years, and then one balloon and that got blown down in review. And then this one was on the order of double or triple the tax amount. Other than that, nothing important, very important, except around the mailboxes. Little more concrete so we’re not running are ruining our rim or make it easier to clean off and easier to get in close and get your mail. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 1 47:12
Thank you, Mr. Leiter. Leave it we can’t have the back and forth member of the public but I’m going to ask you, since we’re still talking navigation easements, you said that there were review certainly by city attorney and I think the word you used were outside advisors. Yeah.
Speaker 3 47:29
Are Eric in the name of the consultant firm escapes me at the moment, I apologize. But Eric from they’re actually based back in Washington, DC area and their international legal advising firm is what they do. And they’ve been through this process many, many, many times. So they kind of took what we had reviewed it and added, you know, eight or nine pages of their own stuff to it.
Speaker 1 47:55
I mean, I support the idea of a OPA review, particularly since it comes back to us so I mean, we can always just go into the public record and
Speaker 3 48:03
we can always shoot it off to Brad and he can review it to the OPA. Yeah,
Speaker 1 48:06
I would support more is better. I don’t know. Does anyone else have any obligation easement comments? Since we’re not taking action on that tonight? But I think it’s good discussion. Mr. Telemedia?
Speaker 4 48:21
How large is the allegation He’s meant for the airport?
Speaker 3 48:27
I want to say oh my gosh, it’s a little document it’s like a little contract it’s multiple pages. I did to go back it’s been now four months or so since I’ve been through it. It’s just kind of been sitting on there waiting for the planning department to take action on it but it’s it’s hefty. I mean, just as an example it one of the lines that sticks in my mind was it says any you know current airplane you know producing noise and or any airplane that’s invented in the future yada yada yada yada it goes pretty deep into any potential you know, creation of any aircraft or whatever. So they really cover their bases on I remember they shot it back to us so this is pretty pretty impressive. It’s obviously from the standpoint of someone’s had to deal with this before.
Speaker 4 49:12
I thought it was a geographic area is a geographic area around the airport. So navigation
Speaker 3 49:17
easement is not a geographic area the concept of an easement. So I guess you can say you know, much like a road or something like that is is an item but navigation easement. I mean, the city decides where they want that abrogation easement the city might come back and say you know what, we want navigation easement over anyone who builds anything in the city. And they can actually do that they can say, well, we want to navigation easements on anyone who is within one mile airport, or anything like that. So it’s kind of at the the city’s discretion on where they apply those navigation easements from a practical standpoint, and certainly from an FAA standpoint, they have a very specific set of qualifications where they do and do not want housing particularly and then In what, say marked correctly, perhaps incompatible land use, or they don’t want things, particularly in the approach zones. And then within the airport pay traffic pattern are usually the things they really focus on. So that’s really what they’re concerned about. But yeah, easements are always great. And I tell people all the time, some people come to me say what’s great, we’ll have an easement, we’ll never have any issues. Again, it’s like, no, it’s not that we’ll never have any issues. Again, it’s just a tool in your toolbox. is all it is. It’s just having it’s just having the ability to say is like, look, when you purchase this, or when you develop this, we let you know, hey, there’s an airport here has been here since 1940. planes come by sometimes those planes are noisy. You know? I don’t think we can. Yeah. But anyway, any other questions?
Speaker 1 50:57
Oh, no other questions on that our next one is public invited to be heard. So anyone, is welcome to come up and speak. Otherwise, we can have a discussion after meeting where we can actually have a discussion as opposed to just speaking at us.
Speaker 8 51:11
offline or again, just a question. You know, the question is, we have an allegation. Airport influence area definition, like we had at Boulder in many airports. And that’s us. That’s the thing that maps, kind of where you want to have the navigation easements.
Speaker 1 51:38
So Mr. Leiter, I apologize that we can’t answer the question by our rules. But I would encourage board members to answer it in our next item. And I apologize, it’s kind of awkward. But I appreciate the question.
Speaker 2 51:55
Melinda, Melinda Jordan, live and 10 Twin Peaks circle in the flight path, love living in the flight path. And through next door, I learned that a lot of people that live over an airport road do appreciate the skydiving and the activity, and they don’t resent it. But then you’ve got all the people who do. So the thing that from the time I joined the board in 2016, January 2016. And it was being discussed then and what I’m concerned is to hear let’s get things rolling first, they’ve been rolling since 1945, when they move the airport out there. And they’ve been rolling closer and closer and closer to the airport. And at what point is it enough to preserve the airport influence zone that that area? And that what we consider an easement. Logically what our brains go to is that space that’s preserved. I was just looking at the tennis superior has a population of 13,000 people. Most of them lost their homes and then rebuilt them, right. They’re in the same space. So if the noise was driving them crazy, why didn’t they take that opportunity to move? And Broomfield has 74,000 people so combined total of about 100,000, which is about what we are there. Metro airport opened in 1960. They started the town of Broomfield in 1961. And they built all of Broomfield right up to below the runways, so planes could crash into their neighborhoods. So don’t know quite how they came up with the logic to do that. But just this last year, we had a plane crash right in the neighborhood there. And so the get things rolling first, it feels like they’ve been rolling for quite a long time. And the original request was just sign it just signage on Airport Road, Nelson road, you know, the adjacent Rogers Boston, saying you’re entering an airport influence or air, aircraft, airport influence zone, low flying aircraft, just some warnings that people if they’re looking at real estate, and it’s a cloudy day, and there’s no air traffic, they might see those signs and be triggered to ask some questions. If that’s a pet peeve of theirs, it seems like people move in, and then it becomes a pet peeve. And so that’s just human nature. But the question being that the navigation easement seems to have needed to have been a priority for a long time, and maybe we are in good shape on on complaints. I think we’ve I mean, we’ve gone from a really bad position to a good position. But we’d like to stay in that good position. And having a this development built right into the crash zone is problematic. Obviously, we will see a plane go down in that neighborhood, bad fuel, you know, engine failure, something’s going to happen. It has happened planes have landed there. So we can figure that it’s going to happen. So that that seems to be an item that needs to be prioritized in that if the board needs to read a letter or if something some action needs to be taken to move that up on the priority. And then I was just going to ask about snow removal plan. How that looks for this year, just out of curiosity, and then I noticed the fence was damaged must have been by a car accident on Airport Road and just what’s when that gets fixed? And has that been problematic, or is it? It’s definitely noticeable on Airport Road, but I haven’t seen anybody breaching it. I do see you out there super early in the morning in that truck, though. Go, I do see you and I’m heading to work. So good job. I know you’re out there working. So I think we’re you know, we’re in good shape, considering like what they’re dealing with done at Metro and this listening session that they had, we’re in better shape, because we’ve already fought that battle. But really to protect ourselves from future battles. This is these are a few pieces of tools we can put in the toolbox to protect herself going forward from having homes with children and swimming pools and things just right it right as we take off. So whatever we can do to prioritize that would be good. Good job.
Speaker 1 55:59
Thank you, Melinda. Would anyone else like to speak at our final public invited to be heard? Seeing no one will close that. And we’ll move on to board city council and our staff comments. I will just answer the question, there is an airport influence on Google Longmont planning zoning map. And it is very visible, and it’s a huge area of the city. And I
Speaker 3 56:24
would add to that, so there is a big, nice little line around it. Also, when we were all kind of hashing this out and talking about particularly with the planning that’s been going on in the airport, and why the FAA seemed to have such an issue with it. When the I sent out when the advisory circulars to the plane department, they made me a very nice map of kind of the the explanation of what the FAA says they’re looking for the angles off of the approach the distance from the runway in point like seven, they made an additional map with many different layers to it, approach layers, pattern layers, exterior layers. And so that’s been generated now also, in the last, I would say is about two or three months ago, that’s been generated for our use moving forward. And also, I’d also like to take a moment just to kind of make sure you know, we’re separating the concept out between planning around the airport and then easements. So just because we get an easement pass, that doesn’t mean we’re doing appropriate planning around the airport to make sure we’re having compatible land use easements supplied essentially, everything. So like I mentioned, we could have an easement, you know, anyone who develops in the whole city has to have a navigation easement. Planning will really have to, when, in my opinion, we should focus on around the airport, just to make sure that as we move forward to be successful as an airport, that we’re not doing inappropriate things with that land. I think one of the big issues was a few years back. In fact, when we did the last master plan, if you guys do need a little light reading and go through that, when that Master Plan was done all of the airport, all of land in the airport, influence zone was zoned as like mercial. A few years back, this city of Longmont changed at all to mixed use and mixed use means housing. So I think that was one of the things when that really kind of perk the FAS ears up, when that all kind of came out and why again, they’re pushing for a master plan. So we can focus on the planning, not only at the airport, but beyond the fence. Oh, and by the way, the fence. The fence itself. Yeah, there was a car incident. The big hang up with that was getting parts, we had to order parts and wait for him because it was that fence on the front of the airport. And it’s just not chain link is that fancy black steel Barstow. So we had the parts ordered, they fix that I want to say the beginning of last week a little bit before, so it should be all good now.
Unknown Speaker 58:57
Mr. Dean, yeah, so
Speaker 5 58:58
we will a couple of things. First off, I do have an issue requisition number from Whitman Air Force base for the flyover. It’s not guaranteed, but we are in the system. So it’s either that or a flyover of different aircraft. So I will be following up probably next month to see kind of where they’re at with that, because I haven’t heard anything back. But we did get a number which means we’re on their radar for needing, you know, a flyover. Secondly, if you can kind of get hold RTD we’re expecting a large turnout this year, and kind of plan that parking in the RTD. And start kind of getting that going with we’re thinking overflow would be at the fairgrounds and maybe shuttling back and forth on the fairgrounds to the airport. So if you could maybe get a hold of RTD and we can certainly
Speaker 3 59:42
reach out to them and kind of ask them what they can help us with I’m sure if we go to you know, to the City Planning Guide, say hey, can you help us Park and they’re gonna say hey, great, give us a plan and then we’ll give you some comments on it. So that will be kind of our responsibility, I’m sure is is organizing what the parking will be. and kind of on that same thought process, I did forget ahead into my update and I forgot to mention, I did reach out to the FAA, about make sure we’re getting potential paperwork in they said that yeah, you need at least four months for what they think that we need to submit when you least four months heads up. So we’re, it appears on the you know, the, the far end of that, so we’re getting stuff moving forward. I talked to the ATO, they also hooked, sent some communications back and forth between the Fisto it’s looking like for there’s not a whole lot of intricate paperwork we’re gonna have to do because we’re not a part 139 Airport, and we don’t have to worry about security issues and stuff like that. They still are going to ask for kind of like a ground layout plan. And a general airshow plan, it kind of sounds like
Unknown Speaker 1:00:48
perfect, awesome. Thank you. Yep.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:54
Other board member comments? Other city staff comments.
Speaker 1 1:01:06
Alright, I’m not seeing anybody. Cool. Then I will say that our meeting is adjourned. Thank you everyone for coming. Oh, I’m so sorry. Comment. I’m really sorry. Next meeting is December 14. It is coming up to the holidays. If anyone knows plans in advance that you’re not going to be there. Let us know as far as you can. So we can either say we’re doing it or not. That’s it. We’re adjourned. Thank you, everyone. Thank you
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