Longmont City Council Pre-Session – March 21, 2023
Read along below:
Unknown Speaker 0:01
And tell us about our board meetings this week. And is there anything that council should know about this coming forward?
Unknown Speaker 0:13
Oh, no. The main two board related things got have have going on? First of all, we’ve been doing some some recruiting activities. All above for all of you. Yeah. So all we did was we went to a restaurant, I was working with Don, and Argentina, and Carmen, about, you know, what the, what the barriers were for. Basic people from other barriers were. And so we get to see we start accepting printed pages, printed applications, and applications at the Senior Center, or any board on their display application here. And there are ether off, because they have have my Spanish speaking quote of startups going through their process, and to be able to probably benefit almost any of them to have a board member as part of a startup, because it helps with networking and understanding how things work, and all of that. So that’s basically as much outreach as we got done so far, but it’s more than done. And carbon storage will apply by little because the first year is not much. So we did that. Then the other exciting piece is, is that the sustainability board has been getting seriously inundated with anti EMF emails. Yeah. To the extent that it was essentially was taking all Heather’s time to form the emails because their emails are public. And so they decided to know whether board accepts emails from the public at all right. So they aren’t, she’s come stop forwarding. They put some limits on public invited to be heard and last on the agenda. That was all the things to do. But yeah, I find it troublesome that, that a faction, especially a mostly out of town faction, would take advantage of of a volunteer advisory board in that way. So sadly, one of the board members is part of the factions. So that’s how we get to work at all. So nothing else.
Unknown Speaker 3:42
See, there’s on the art code places there. The jury last week, 11 sculptures and I had a conflict at the end, so I had to leave. So I didn’t find out exactly what they were looking but they’re excited about that. The the the Ark app board, they’re still kind of gnashing their teeth around the one issue in regards to that. And in regards to the consortium of cities. There’s this, Jeff Calhoun with the boulder Labor Council, AFL CIO, and more popular right from Boulder, city council, the one says to have some sort of K through eight minimum wage initiative. And I’ve kind of stayed off till I talk to you all to see what your thoughts were in regards to that because I didn’t want to, you know, tell them your knee or full support. And so maybe this is a issue that we need to vote on with counsel. Maybe soon, so that I can give them you know, our stance on or resign?
Unknown Speaker 5:10
Yes. And just to finish. So Jeff, would I asked him if he would be interested in presenting the whole initiative to council. And that tonight wasn’t a good night. And next week, we’re canceled. So perhaps in two weeks if you can come and really explain what it’s all about, and so he’s, he’s good with that. So I’ll talk to you about the agenda.
Unknown Speaker 5:39
My impression was, well, my impression it was this was about implementing legislation was passed in 2018. And whatever that strategy is, that’s as far as we moved.
Unknown Speaker 5:49
And I think, yeah, so he will be presenting to us. I did a
Unknown Speaker 5:53
lot more listening than I did, Doc. And I just wanted to make sure.
Unknown Speaker 5:56
Yeah, if you want to catch me after they were right up to the brink on that before we switched over. Right. So I think since you did some representative
Unknown Speaker 6:11
on the fifth go for me. Yeah, I guess. I am the alters. Conference and taking students to be hard for me to try to zoom in and everything. So I think most of them include you.
Unknown Speaker 6:34
She can’t get anything.
Unknown Speaker 6:37
So Transportation Board Meeting advisory board was really good. It was really good. Except that they there wasn’t enough participants on that Monday. Someone else moved out of the city of Longmont. Why would they?
Unknown Speaker 7:02
So they didn’t have a quorum to you know, hold on anything. But later feel. Yeah, had the presentation. Generally, yeah, had the presentation, Third Street, and all the changes that’s going on as far as the walkways and everything and it took up like the whole table is really big. And we had invited to public invited, so we heard probably around 10 people there. So it was really amazing to hear, to hear their suggestions. There comments, and then also, of course, their issues. So they, you know, they weren’t there to actually ask those questions. Were there. And they were there in Gemini and Phil, were there to answer them. So
Unknown Speaker 7:56
which was really, really good.
Unknown Speaker 7:59
I told them, since we’re down a couple of people on the advisory board, we should probably be recruiting them. So at least for them to think about applying. So it was very informative. And I appreciate the all of the work they put into having that map in actually explaining every street that they’re working on. So that was Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 8:27
See more. Planning and Zoning was cancelled, so it was no longer afford their historic preservation commission is about to go into their retreat, we were weaker to consider finalizing their agenda for their retreat. They heard a presentation on 150 Francis. That’s coming for us tonight, specifically, having to do around. There’s some sheds or outbuildings that are in the right of way that needs to be moved or demolished. And so they’re getting an update on whether they were at any historic value things along those lines. And then they’ve gotten pretty much their final update on the city and the developer of I think it’s a 711 or something over on Slack across from the Walmart and they’ll marry Dickens farm has agreed in principle, I believe that too, so that the barn will be saved and a piece of the land will be dedicated to the city is the ingredient that I’ve heard that they were talking about. So they’re happy with that linear they still would have liked more but it’s gone back and forth many times and so they were pretty happy with this resolution and so because of the dedication of land and and such to the city and like of course the council lpm meeting is Thursday so we were able to update for that
Unknown Speaker 9:56
prep board was was appreciative Drill there were so many directions. Not ideal chart, but it looks a lot like insurance to kind of lay out the the eight and five scheduled parks and binders, along with the kind of update on the other seven. So they were, that was a major part of the discussion and they continue to be highly interested in concerned about the backlog and you know what’s in the queue? in the out years that hasn’t shown up? And how to think about setting priorities. They’re also in the process of finding dates and in question questions or topics for planning on the golf board, I will say they are today deeply knowledgeable about the causes and the effects of frost. Very impressive pieces about the causes and effects. But there hadn’t been much golf played recently. So it wasn’t much to report other than answering the question. And here on the nights, met with the girl that you want to go by Jones, I would try to explain, but its complexity of the finances in you know, owning debt, then, you know, trying to make the right investments on behalf of employees return. But that’s the
Unknown Speaker 11:27
question. Is the future part of North eating five parks? The future? I don’t know not.
Unknown Speaker 11:42
Unknown Speaker 11:44
I wouldn’t call it future park for
Unknown Speaker 11:46
the kids have the gym.
Unknown Speaker 11:54
So to the girl, that is very interesting. I like being on that board. But it’s very involved. And I think it’s really hard to have a retirement fund one on one in a year and know everything about it. So I was very interested that the employee was there. The one employee that was speaking I didn’t know
Unknown Speaker 12:20
she was Suzy sitting right?
Unknown Speaker 12:22
Yeah. He had he was a good representative British employees because he asks a lot of questions for in questions. I was impressed that you’re very involved with that repair record they should they have the bins there. So my basically we’re all about transportation and we are exactly where we were last time when Harold and Debbie Johnson myself, Eric Davidson, maybe at pricing tour and Phil are going to have a meeting that Zoom meeting to talk about partnerships for intercity transit. I think I said this last night, which is why nothing’s changed. We haven’t had the meeting yet. So we’re also talking about composting. There’s a big discussion discussion about a compost facility. What I asked Martin up to me actually yesterday, what are you gonna call is that integrated pest chart Academy’s as well is that composting is something that our all of us should understand. So that when the residents come to us, we understand that there are different types of composting, or for different types of materials, different type of composting for food for yard waste, or dinnerware, that is compostable and napkins and everything else. And that when they say, I don’t want this because it smells, we should know what type of composting facility we felt with that smell. Or if we’re thinking about down the road, so if you agree at some point, we’ll bring it up. I would like to have a seat at our commissioner and city council meeting, the next time that we have that explained to us by Charlie or because I always find it frustrating that everybody knows a little bit about people’s hearts and we don’t really know the whole scope of having a comfortable facility. So education so that’s, that’s about it for me.
Unknown Speaker 14:32
I do have a question. I can wait till Council comments, but it’s specifically on where we are with a one who’s talking to Google about some options. Would you rather do that now
Unknown Speaker 14:43
or no I can I can do it. Now. We’re just I have been brought into the conversation our our commissioners are on board with with a composting facility where it’s going to be from my perspective or what little I know is that the cow He has the dollars to build. There’s different pieces of land that we could look at. But Harold brought up a great idea, which I’m going to run has to actually still sort of establish a one doesn’t have the facility to compost every type of compostable. So, possibly, instead of building a new one, could we partner with a one and expand their facility? Somewhere in that past, several ideas that we’re talking about,
Unknown Speaker 15:35
to understanding acuity is $9 million plus, based, that’s accrued from the sustainability tax.
Unknown Speaker 15:44
And they can build whatever it is, in the interim,
Unknown Speaker 15:48
I just was curious whether or not municipalities or municipalities with county commissioners have any conversation about what we could do together, either to cover the costs of hauling 40 Tons of stuff that they couldn’t compost, or, you know, that was contained with your image, it’s gonna go to the landfill.
Unknown Speaker 16:08
Right, exactly. And that, that is why we started it. Well,
Unknown Speaker 16:13
so if it’s gonna end up in the landfill, it’s gonna get in the landfill, whether it goes from my house, or from a boy, right. And it just seems to me that the unlearning that we’re going to ask our residents to do right now, when the time comes for them to relearn or to readapt, that that is going to be a much steeper, or it’s going to be a lagging adoption curve. And it just if we could, if we can make a deal among the municipalities with our county commissioners to save day one will cover the cost will collaborate. The county has the money to haul that stuff away, and keep sending even disgusted you know, they have to sort out if it’s going to end up in the landfill anyway. Let’s continue to work on a dock option.
Unknown Speaker 17:03
Are you talking about an interim? Yeah, and
Unknown Speaker 17:04
plan right? And that’s, rather than taking steps backwards, that’s my concern that we’re going to the cynics out there, we’re gonna laugh and point the finger. Cheat the finger say we told you. And the ones that were late adopters are gonna go I’m not gonna do this again. I mean, that’s fine. It’s just when you’re at
Unknown Speaker 17:21
a stage where we thought maybe yeah, get them. More people that come on with this. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 17:27
And thanks for bringing that up. Because that was my second ask of Martin. Which name is that? Also, when we’re learning about what composting facilities do? Let’s, let’s have the conversation about just what you brought up different ideas together, instead of having it be like the rainbow nursery was where it just exploded on us and nobody really knew what was going on. So I think education, open discussion makes more sense before we have any type of decision making. So I think as Charlie continues to research this and Bob Ellen and Harold and and Ashley Saltzman. She and I are going to set up a meeting with her name is Laurie sitting, which is the Weld County Commissioner who is semi interested. But it’s worth reaching out. And I think Commissioner, the Commissioner is a better idea than
Unknown Speaker 18:37
she is glorious meeting with Hayward. Great Victory. And I also suggested to the mayor, Tim, when he asked me about it was it the county commissioners could reach out to the Larimer county commissioners and others. I think there’s there’s an operational savings. Because we’re all having this issue. Everybody uses, everyone uses it. If we’re all in the same position. There’s no point there’s no money
Unknown Speaker 19:09
to pay to keep people in this process. It still holds stuff away. It was in Winfield anyway, by some time to figure out how to help with that technology become stakeholders and exam one or whatever, you know, whatever the options are the discussion. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 19:27
So so it has not anyone already said that they have room to place a digester without tearing down their open window facility now so that they could could divert over I think that’s that would be one of the first think they have
Unknown Speaker 19:51
the tickets. Economics issue. It’s an economics.
Unknown Speaker 19:56
Well, yeah. But if we built the digester, it wouldn’t be Economics issue, just the space issue.
Unknown Speaker 20:02
That’s kind of the suggestion I’ve made to refer to talk to me. I think there’s a desire to promote accounting to say, Oh, we want to go over County. But my point is, if you already have the site where the land use is determined, at what point does it make sense to just try to invest in and be a partner, it gives you control over time, you don’t have to deal with the land use issues. And you’re automating their operation. And sort of said to the council members and talk to me, that’s where I think county commissioners really need to engage. Yes, and Bob and Charlie have all been saying the commissioners need to engage in this conversation about partnerships with local counties. And we’re not sure whether that’s a good
Unknown Speaker 20:53
thing you made a good point, though, here, and also when you were talking to me is that all of these cities and counties have already been there used to go in today, or they won’t have to change their the way they function. If we just invest in a one, instead of rerouting those trucks to someplace else and try to figure out if they have any nimbyism or
Unknown Speaker 21:21
less than the community join this went so well, what could possibly go? Well, that’s why I want to do it again.
Unknown Speaker 21:28
That’s why we want to have conversations before they decide for us what’s going to happen.
Unknown Speaker 21:35
I also made the recommendation to Bob and Charlie to go to different groups. So when I worked in Texas, there was a group called Texas disposal systems. And they actually went as far west as outside, almost to, like, go down south in San Antonio, we have this massive recycling facility, and then they compost in organics actually bridge the transportation gap by creating transfer stations. So if you’re in Fort Collins, or you know, it may be that we have a transfer station, let’s say on the digital property with water, water funds, it’s in there really for short period of time, it’s trucked out. And so they’ve actually cracked the transportation code by using these transfer stations so that not everyone’s able to grow all the way out there. And that can be an augmentation to the big ones.
Unknown Speaker 22:36
Unknown Speaker 22:41
part of the issue with going to a one has always been the carbon footprint of hallway that we’re sharing 40% of the methane we produce for our garbage? Or is it the other way around, we’re using 40%, where 60% Anyway, we can use he also frogs to reduce the carbon footprint of going out there and that will probably have a whole lot fewer permitting problems. And
Unknown Speaker 23:17
all those are good discussions. So if that’s it, let’s get started on the ethics. I said everybody that you give the kind of the makeup, what I think that we should be doing and
Unknown Speaker 23:35
why you’re logging in? I have my report. Oh my god. I was my floor. Yeah, well, my computer decided to restart itself. And so I had to wait for to get back on anyway. Susie? Yes. So I just have the museum Advisory Board and the library FRB so far, and the museum was just giving us updates. There’s a lot of partnership between them and our public places. And so there is a new installation, the angel’s wings in the atrium, so it was beautiful. I saw it yesterday there and, and so and then the mural at the spoke of the breezeway, it’s going to be a guess, you know, mobile when it has multi medium. This mural, it’ll have a QR code that you’ll be able to scan and it’ll cause something to happen I don’t know like display or some kind of display. So it’s pretty it was pretty neat. So I thought that was a fun thing to share the two hours it’s already up okay. And and the other was really talking about expanding the their camps or programs They awarded 73 scholarships for their children’s camps. So that was that was good. And then eliciting volumes to volunteers that were they have 10. To help with this the summer camps. The library meeting was more, you know, we were asking a lot of questions around the survey and
Unknown Speaker 25:24
commend John, and that was named escaping you sitting right next to me for three hours.
Unknown Speaker 25:32
Our parts? Yes, they were they were on top of, they answered a lot of really, really good questions and a lot of information as well. One of the things that they’re looking at, and it sounds like it would have to create a code change, but looking at their bylaws. I don’t know if that’s something that they could do on their on their own, but updating their bylaws and what what are their goals and objectives as far as an advisory board. And so I don’t know if Jeff will come to you. But what’s that
Unknown Speaker 26:10
Charles will have to be there to counsel via the ordinances creating words, established worker roles.
Unknown Speaker 26:18
So as they look at their their bylaws more and kind of have an idea, this might be something that I’m going to bring back to the sections and see where everybody’s at with that. I know that they were looking at depth in what the tax initiative would would fund for the library, which essentially that branch, the Capitol, but they were looking at just really wanting to delve in and having guarantee that we will adequately fund the library to attain that preferred level of service. And so there was a lot of discussion around that around what what that looks like. But I think just wanting to make sure that there’s a commitment from the city that we’re prioritizing our you know, I like to call it social infrastructure, because it’s not just the library, but also when you see our parks. So a lot of the comments on the survey. Were along those lines. First, people did not understand that the sales tax tax was meant to be the operational expenses of the facility seem to get there. But I think it would be good before we decide what to refer to have presentations on how the size of the sales tax were determined, because that would answer the library for that. Know, I wanted to share share that that piece with you all I know that they were interested in some of the members were interested in coming to public invited to be heard to ask, you know, for that commitment to further fun, and, you know, something that kind of came to mind is I was concerned that the public would and I said you know, you can do whatever, whatever you want to tell them you know, but also keep in mind that, you know, just from my own experience of being on council is people convolute the two ideas together, they both have to do with the library, that they’re talking about one funding source and a separate funding source, they might come over the two together. And Jeff had also stated that as well. So, you know, so we might have people coming in to speak on behalf of that or they might decide to to wait, because they do want to come forward. But that was
Unknown Speaker 28:40
so staff couldn’t be there during the Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 28:45
I mean, I think one of the things that we will talk about is
Unknown Speaker 28:51
when you look at the
Unknown Speaker 28:52
balkanization of taxes, there is a significant downside, in that what we’ve seen where we have it, we’ve seen it more so in public safety, is that when you have a sales tax decrease, what it did is it pinches that fun and you can so there’s two pieces a when you dedicated in that funding source, and you have to cut you can’t balance that out. The other side is is when it’s dedicated to the more dedicated funds you have. And you’re trying to balance that in the remaining part of the job. It pinches that too, which makes it harder to manage budget shortfalls. And so you can talk at 30,000 feet up after that is something any of you say we’ll have to bring back because there are some unintended consequences.
Unknown Speaker 29:46
Usually it’s decreasing the sort of snatch up sales tax revenues, not rates.
Unknown Speaker 29:51
Yeah. The rates. Yeah. So let’s just say you go into another Oles, and it’s dedicated and you’re predicting operational expenses on that There’s no way to cover it within a specific dedication to dedicated pieces, and you really can’t cover it, because you’re also they have fewer areas to balance it out in the broader general. And so it starts pinching everyone pretty hard.
Unknown Speaker 30:17
And this may be a question for out there, what was the staffs expectation in terms of the design of the things that could go on the ballot with respect to that. So
Unknown Speaker 30:32
I think we were working with some language, but basically saying, here’s what we’re going to try to do. But in the event of a downturn, you can balance the system. So you do have more flexibility.
Unknown Speaker 30:46
So it’s a TBD. But there are ways to deal with it, we
Unknown Speaker 30:49
think so to say, here’s what we’re going to do. But in the event, theoretically, granted, but in the event of an economic downturn, I forgot the language that we have. But basically, you can cut the services that are there. In the public safety fund, where it can only be used for services. You can’t necessarily make that cup and so we were working. You remember, we were up there talking about this, and I can’t remember what we decided. I think there are ways to solve it. It’s just not as simple as dedicate this funding we do is there will be a pinch. I’m sure you can minimize that.
Unknown Speaker 31:43
Hey, thanks. So this discussion tonight is brought by Tim’s and Aaron on so much. So what are the what’s the enforcement look like? What is What does bringing a complaint look like? And in what I sent out to do, I just put out put down some talking points. And my this was all cut and pasted. It’s not, it’s not my actual thoughts, because I don’t want my thoughts to be the one that decides the discussion. But the one thing that I do want to keep in mind is that the difference between ethics, morals and decorum are very different. And morals are what you personally internally use for your conduct for your ethical ethics, external or external, which means that there are specific things written down that with a committee, a group, organization, they’re written down, they’re explicit. So that is what I think that we should be addressing. What is the procedure for a complaint? And once it comes, or if it’s decided that it comes back to council, what So what So what do we do with that? What is the enforcement. So the things that I looked at what we have here in our city now is censure, we can only censure we are a self policing body. And we have the ability to censure we do not have the ability to recall. But according to Robert’s Rules of Order, if we have an outside board or council or whatever you want to call it, we can give them the authority to recall if, if that is what this group would desire to do. So, you know, I put the issues from Denver from what our city charter says. And I don’t know if you read that. Do you want me to read it to you? On our Sunday charter tense, well, our city Yeah, city charter says, the council or committee or whatever, duly authorized by it by council, shall have the power to investigate the official acts and conduct of any officer and officer being council person or employee of the city and may compel the attendance and testimony of witnesses and the production production of books and documents. In other words, whatever you can to make to make the case either for or against, the council has the right to do that. But what Robert’s Rules of Order says, basically from the way I interpreted is that they recommend that the council or whatever group is, have an outside group look at a complaint or an offense. So let me read and see if that’s what you how you interpret that Robert’s Rules of Order says if members commit offenses outside of meeting, the procedure is to initiate action by introducing a main motion authorizing an investigating committee or report, the motion should not make charges, but only present a problem that merits investigation. If the motion is adopted, the committee should discreetly conduct a thorough investigation, including a conference with the accused. So these are the recommendations that I found to bring forth in the center. And then there are some sections from some of the other cities.
Unknown Speaker 35:58
So my question is Jonah, it sounded like you said that this committee that moves the border refers to it has a Providence, you know that it exists some out, but the piece that you rent and say anything about that, the committee that you could I could tell whether the committee was formed on the spot, or it doesn’t say that, yes. Okay. That it doesn’t say either way.
Unknown Speaker 36:27
No. Okay. No, that’s not what I did. That’s why I ran it.
Unknown Speaker 36:34
So I just have a question. So I’m sorry, I was just trying to kind of thinking out loud. Last time, we had a recall in in the city was probably the late 80s, early 90s, Basil Irwin was directing staff outside the city manager to do things, but it was the community members that found it offensive, and then brought recall against him. And that was the only successful recall that I’ve ever heard of the city’s you know, history that has happened. So my, my concern is, when somebody does something, you know, like, in Boulder Valley, we’re all being trained on timeline issues right now, because of the stuff that’s happened in a couple of our high schools. And so, in turn, we’ve had this, everybody’s required to go through an online training where they have to document their, their, you know, testing on knowledge of videos and everything. And so that stuff is what I kind of feel is maybe the sort of thing that gets, gets that a person’s ethically, you know, in, in trouble, because they, and I suppose there’s this decorum side of it, too, that is there. But the issue that I see is that when some of those things be headed off, if we first made sure that somebody had something like this in place, and we have plenty of examples from St. Green, or both valley that, you know, are now aware of it and have the resources that they can, they can provide us that, you know, some third party has has been an ingredient. So it’s not like the district itself, is creating it. So it probably is something that it’s somebody you can literally buy to advise your your staff, you know, on ethical behavior, or behavior and stuff like that, which would be some of the things that maybe somebody would get in trouble with. And would be on this, you know, it’s besides the idea of talking to accidentally, you know, sit in return or some sort of thing like that, when people don’t, you know, aren’t really trying to integrate problems with it serve before we were at CML. And the council directed the mayor to vote on some, some legislation that CML wanted our input on that, then we were we had, we felt we had public support on and the mayor went and voted completely and totally against what we had recommended. And I caught him on it. And in this case here, we probably would have been an issue.
Unknown Speaker 39:36
So I am a little confused about what you’re saying. Are you saying that was sort of adopt some of what somebody already has?
Unknown Speaker 39:46
I think I think we should strengthen our our HR criteria even for council members to have some sort of training yearly, just to make sure that they are aware of it. That would be the first thing instead of Have an ordinance, which would just be a good housekeeping thing that would protect Harold and everybody else in the in the, in the system and all employees. And I think that that some of the issues that would come out of an ethics committee at an ethics commission, how often would we use it? I don’t know. That’s my biggest worry that how often would we use it? I understand when we ever leave Standards Board they use quite often, certainly that knowing that, but that’s also a personnel matter. And so we had to go in and look at the personnel file and read over it, and then read over the circumstances of the situation and determine as a group afterwards, what was that, but that probably happens more often in that setting.
Unknown Speaker 40:56
So that’s why they had a shot. I use saying that you don’t think we should do this?
Unknown Speaker 41:01
I’m not certain that we should. Okay. Yes. I’m not certain that we should. I’m just concerned. How, how would it be weaponized, later by some future? Counsel and me mayor in a way that would would really throw the city in turmoil? That’s okay, because?
Unknown Speaker 41:22
So scheda, do you think that this process is worth going through? Do you think that we should have a process for complaints?
Unknown Speaker 41:32
I think we still have, as a council need to discuss the purpose, make sure we have a clear understanding of what is the purpose of the ethics committee, I think that is number one, making sure that we have I just took a few notes, making sure that we understand what the purpose of having it for AI, you know, we may all have our own interpretations like to keep us from getting in trouble. Making sure that no matter what I agree with you on the training, we all should make a wish there shouldn’t be training with new people, like even myself. I’m and at the same time understanding what the roles are. Okay. So I think that’s very important. I’m not I think that that’s first and foremost, and how does that overlap with the Robert’s Rules of Order to? Yeah, I think we just need to define what the purpose of this committee, the Ethics Committee, in that we all should, if we decide to do it, we need to make sure we all agree. And then also making sure that just because someone does something wrong, doesn’t mean I don’t get a second chance. Because we are human beings. I’m just saying, I just want to make sure it’s not to like point fingers at people. And it’s like, okay, how do we train? And how do we make this better? Right, for the next in the next council? Counselor? Okay. So I think first we need to, for me, personally, I think we need to make sure we understand the exact purpose of this ethics committee. Okay. I’m
Unknown Speaker 43:15
sorry, I think I spoke to this when we talked about having this meeting, that I think have being a self policing body is not particularly useful, especially with center being the heaviest repercussions that we can dole out as a self policing body. So I think I think it is worth exploring, whether it’s an ethics committee, or just having somebody as a federal about former federal agents or former detectives or hearings, officers having that kind of person, instead of committee. It’s just a person who’s continuing either normalized. So and also has investigated fabrics of some sort. So I think that’s another option besides a convenient person. I think that, you know, having things sent back to the city council can just fall right back into possible politicization of factions on council. And I think that there needs to be if there’s not the consequence of here’s officer, whoever that that non bias third party is having the ability to say, have a recall, say, I don’t think anybody on this council is like that. But if we got to towards Santos, and so completely makes up your background and gets elected to City Council, not just not not not standing individual, you know, that there’s, there’s some sort of function to deal with that outside of, because you’ll hear it all the time from the public is that even if they want to too many of them do realize how expensive is to get somebody recalled? And knowing that that might not even work in the first place? And so I think a lot of the public is just is not interested in trying to recall people because of how expensive and how tedious that process was he
Unknown Speaker 45:07
took that in the paper this morning, when they’re led to the Oh, yes, we all be recalled
Unknown Speaker 45:12
for doing something was not in our power to do.
Unknown Speaker 45:20
So I do think we ought to be clear on if we’re going to do this on the silhouette question. And I did read what you said, you know, I have provoked Other questions from me about where does the authority start? And, you know, for somebody or for recalls.
Unknown Speaker 45:42
So I honestly, I’m an agnostic on on the need or value of having a committee, if it were just Tim waters. And I felt like it was up to me, I would, I would, I would agree on the protocol would be to bring it into the trial industry, the trial judge, which are, I guess, retired, former folks who sit on the edge who do this for a living? Right, they conduct investigations and in make recommendations, and then based on the law, or whatever, you know, standards we have. Just to simplify a process. I think any of us it’s not, it’s not clear now that we ought to clarify rules and procedures, that if somebody believes there’s been reached, there is a protocol. And we got to be clear what that protocol was, we don’t have one. So So So, for me, I carried around this is a, this is a version of the slide deck was dated June 10 2015, I’ve been carrying around for a long time with Apple in one of these days, you know, maybe the spirit of useful but it’s the CML website, it’s that you’ve talked about training, this is their training, or was then it’s probably been updated, pretty good. If you look at the look at the slide deck, that kind of take you through the differences between watching ethical breach versus illegal or immoral, you know, deviance or variation or whatever. And the questions to ask, you know, how to think about holding yourself accountable. Seems to me that, that in terms of a process, even before we get to a protocol, it would be it would be worth bringing in CML, or something like that. I mean, this one is designed for city council members, and then see what kind of conclusions we might reach about how much farther to go whether to think about agreeing on a protocol that would be triggered if there’s a complaint and then an administrative trial, Judge Shaw wasn’t made references to keeping Harold clear, if something wasn’t certain that you’re thinking about us.
Unknown Speaker 47:55
Just saying that in the administrator when they have a, quote, an employee do something, or a member of the Council do something or whatever or the leadership team has, like it or not, there’s reflection on on the top person. So, you know, I want us to be proactive. And that’s why I think, every year just like the school district, every employee, even city council members, even though they’ve seen it, it’s that JIRA done the training, yeah, training. They know, there’s certain things that, of course, you’re gonna get that you’ve been told you signed off on it. You said, you’ve been training, you know,
Unknown Speaker 48:41
that the idea of a standing committee is like, how often would a standing committee utilize? You know, in my experience, not very often, if ever, and then, if not that, then then the alternative is something like an administrative trial judge.
Unknown Speaker 49:00
But at the end of the day, I do think so one is pretty limited. But it would be good to get a definitive answer to the question. What are the limits to go to administrative trial judge are some board that would be I’d be curious to know, what board would be authorized to recall an elected official, or is it to initiate a recall process? And then if there’s somebody who has the authority to find, it’s like, really?
Unknown Speaker 49:30
We don’t find dribbles. Is that No, because, you know, those are just things that other cities are
Unknown Speaker 49:35
doing, and those are questions that we would Yeah, I’d want to make certain we could answer before we get too far down the line with with serious consideration.
Unknown Speaker 49:44
And the recall thing you know, I talked to you to the charter says we can censure if we decided counsel and recall. I do not want to do that. But it would have to probably go to a vote to do Within the charter, and that’s it.
Unknown Speaker 50:06
So I, just to get the committee thing sort of out of the way, I really like Aaron’s idea of having, it’s like hiring an outside counsel, hiring outside investigator. So that’s something that I think we can put opinion on them. You know, I read the long CNL, CML ethics discussion that gene set down, which I thought was, was really good tonight, and I have a contrast that with the discussion we got on Renew invested on council, which was, you know, basically don’t have financial conflicts of interest? Well, we know we’re not going to do that. And the, you know, the real temptation is violated the chain of command. And that’s a real, I think, a danger for us. Because we are so sensible, and so open about access to staff, you know, Hey, girl, I need to do to do this, I need to understand more about this, I will talk to Jodi, or talk to the, or whoever, you know, will all it will take will be for somebody to misconstrue or the people got into a difference of opinion or whatever, to have a blow up in that way. So, you know, I always say, I know, I can’t tell you what to do. But here’s my opinion, or here’s my question. But that’s always mean that the staff person doesn’t feel pressured. And I really was not, until we got into this aware of what big deal that can be. So I agree with Sean, that the first thing we should do is get everybody up to speed on, you know, there’s probably four or five different types of ethical breaches, right, so, so getting into Affinia, financial conflict of interest is the biggest worst, and probably the chain of command that is the second biggest. And, if you no awareness, maybe retraining on the part of the staff to you know, give them a Harper large score that they can to when they finish they were crossing the line, right? Look, seriously, I’m not seriously seriously, but, but I think if we, if we had, you know, draw the lines and make everybody look what they are, and then live with that knowledge for three or four months, and then have a discussion about what the resources ought to be with all of our raised awareness, because it’s five minutes till and so we’re gonna simulate tonight,
Unknown Speaker 53:08
we’re not selling anything. This is a CZ.
Unknown Speaker 53:12
Yeah, I do agree that we should have an outside person to that will continue. The case of I think it pulls it away from that politis politicization, with cessation. You know, just targeting someone or going after them, and then really reading out what is a frivolous and what is an actual what makes an actual case. The other thing, and I agree with John on this one is the training piece. I mean, even if it’s a little virtual, you know, you’re in the most extreme violations to hear our, you know, you might get a hand slapped to, you know, some of the minor but be aware of, you know, just a really quick and introduce something, you know, I agree that you can we can do it annually, especially if it’s a virtual you know, watch the video and answer your questions. But, yeah, so I agree that in order for us to move forward, you know, I think, you know, making sure that everybody understands what what are these violations, what are you know, and like, we’re all on the same, the same understanding
Unknown Speaker 54:25
and that new people coming in Yes,
Unknown Speaker 54:27
Unknown Speaker 54:28
Understand where it’s going. So, my, my thing is that when someone whether it’s a council person or an outside person, accuses a council person of something, we can say, do you need to write a written documentation now I like that word. type of screens didn’t say that. You have to put it in writing in take it to this person or this board. And then we’ll let the accused person doesn’t necessarily ever know they’re being accused. And that I think is wrong. And they should be able to respond to the accusation. And that’s why I like the Colorado Springs, one they’re getting given some of this, you know, this is what you’ve been accused of, or maybe two days to respond, we’re a week, whatever. And then that maybe it is a conversation that they will sit down and have it and never rises to the, to the, you know, rises to the top of having to having a blow up. But if the weather is a judge, or whoever, or two or three people, I don’t care, that’s what we have to decide. They can tell us Council, this is frivolous based upon this, this rises that we need to investigate this based upon what your code of ethics is, based upon what the law says. And so we are going to have an investigation. I think having a council person accusing another council person, without any way to have a discussion from the accused is wrong, is just wrong. And then to have two or three council people decide what happens. We can’t sell we can’t sell police that way. Because there are things that come into trying to control the vote, you want them off Council. Is it your moral ideal of what should happen that is influencing that? Or is it actually legal following your code of ethics? And I don’t think that staff should be involved in policing Council. They are they need to say you need to take this back over to the to the board or to the right, refer it to the board. We do not solve our problems and benefit comes back to us. That’s where the what was. So what comes in for me is that then if it’s referred back to us, and so what, what does counsel do? What do we say to them publicly? Or privately? Do we kick them off of boards if
Unknown Speaker 57:41
you don’t want to be a
Unknown Speaker 57:42
board? Those are the things that we need to decide that I I really think we need a procedure for complaints. And who does that go to? So that’s what I think we need to think about. Are we going to go Are we going to drop this whole discussion? So we can’t decide now we should probably go have a counseling
Transcribed by https://otter.ai