Longmont Historic Preservation Commission – August 2022
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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Unknown Speaker 0:36
Thank you. Okay, we’ll go ahead and call the August 4 2022 meeting of the historic preservation commission to order can we call the roll please? Hear
Unknown Speaker 1:06
Okay, so we do have a quorum by the skin of our teeth. So we’ll move on to approval of the July 7. Meeting Minutes. And I will note that we do have a quorum from that meeting so we can actually go ahead and act on that. Are there any questions, corrections from commissioners on? Last month’s meeting?
Unknown Speaker 1:41
If not, I’ll accept the motion. Yep, you should be good now. Okay, I have a second. Okay. Moved by Commissioner Jacoby. Seconded by Commissioner goon. All those in favor?
Unknown Speaker 2:07
say aye. Aye. All right. Any opposed? None. Motion carries. meeting minutes are approved. Next would be report from the chair, do not have anything in particular to review this evening. So following that, we’ll have communications from HBC staff liaison. Jennifer, do you have anything for us?
Unknown Speaker 2:45
Nothing to report. I will. I will just give you a heads up that I we do have a couple of applications that we’ve received for various act for a few things requiring commission approval. So we will have some action items at upcoming meetings. So not sure if there’ll be September or October or one of each. But stay tuned.
Unknown Speaker 3:07
Okay, thank you. Any questions for staff?
Unknown Speaker 3:12
Unknown Speaker 3:15
Well, at this point open up public invited to be heard for anyone in the audience wish to speak. Sounds like my microphone is on from here.
Unknown Speaker 3:32
No, I could hear when you got up here that you were the first one I could actually hear without straining.
Unknown Speaker 3:44
Good evening, Sharon O’Leary co chair historic East Side neighborhood. I was putting together the newsletter for our neighborhood and started looking at, you know what the city says about historic preservation. And then I went to the stork East Side architectural survey page, hopefully to you know, with many new people moving along on to educate people where they could go and possibly find out if their home has already been surveyed. That’s probably the biggest stepping stone if you want to move towards preservation or to find out if your home has the potential to be preserved or not. So on that webpage, it talked about this turkey site architectural surveys began in 2001. And you know why? Because of our neighborhoods, so we went out and photographed all the homes. We did the 50%. heavy lifting in the city worked on the grant writing. So 21 years ago, we’ve not expanded the survey so that makes me a little bit nervous. So twice Sarah haven’t sinned and myself and Dido Clark, applied in September for the grants on our own as a neighborhood. And we were denied. And, and rightfully so just because we don’t know the talk, we didn’t know how to talk the talk, you know, and if we had someone guiding us from historic preservation, or if we had someone guiding us from the city, we had done the majority of the heavy lifting, that we could have gotten the grant and continued serving our whole neighborhood. And that’s our goal. So what I’d like to do is put out the offer to work with you because as you read on, on that webpage, it says it is this goal that the historic preservation commission continues to approach the Colorado Historical Society for grants to continue the surveying of historic neighborhoods, I don’t think it’s been happening. So I’m asking to build a partnership. And whether it’s one member or several members, or someone from the city stepping up, again, we will do the initial writing, and then someone goes in there and punches the holes. And we’ll take the pictures of the homes for the area that we want. And we submit it and I think there’s one in September. So I’m putting out an olive branch and say, let’s, let’s preserve together. And then on one more note, I’m here, I’m still waiting for conservation overlay zone, and the historic Eastside neighborhood. And I truly believe that if you’ve wrote a letter of support, that could help elevate, if not escalate, the potential for that happening. When I was on Parks Board, we wrote letters multiple times, or got up and talked in front of Council. And it made a big difference. But if you just attend your meetings, and you don’t communicate outside of casual conversation, nothing happens. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 6:56
Thank you for the comments. Seeing no others, we’ll go ahead and close the public invited to be heard. I do think we should have that on our list for staff to just just acknowledge the comment about about surveys that that is one of our goals. And we do want to make sure that that’s happening here. So I certainly appreciate ancillaries offer. And I think if I think what we’re trying to do is get a grant to get a professional to do those surveys. But if there’s a you know, to have the support of the neighborhood is a useful component. So let’s make sure we’re reaching out and taking advantage of that. Thank you. Okay, new business, it doesn’t appear that we have any. So we’ll move to prior business. And it sounds like we’re gonna have a couple of updates on some outstanding items, the first of which is the Dickens, Barnes Latin property. What’s our what’s our update on that?
Unknown Speaker 8:31
Okay, so on this Leighton property Dekins bar and we are participating with the Parks Recreation advisory board on Monday evening, they are going to be doing their annual tour of various open space projects and that particular property is on their list. We’ve been working with the Parks and Recreation open space team to come up with a plan. So we continue to work with that property owner, we’ve I think we’re getting pretty darn close to as to a solution that works for everyone. That particular site plan for the proposed development is under review as well. So I’m the staff planner reviewing that. So has I get to do the comprehensive, holistic approach on that project. So so it’s it’s, I feel like we’re making some progress. And it’s at this point, it’s a negotiation process and also determining what is needed, you know, what the expenditures would be to stabilize the property. So it could be used for, say Parks and Rec storage type uses as opposed to public occupation uses. So we’ve had our structural engineer take a look at it. And the numbers he came back with I think we talked about this last month were substantially lower than the worst case scenario presented by the applicant. So feel like we’ve got we’re making some progress on it.
Unknown Speaker 9:56
Okay, thanks. And so Glen reached out to me and let me know about that
Unknown Speaker 10:09
meeting that the Parks and Rec is having, which is Monday a little bit before seven. We had hoped that we could also get Holly Norton commission Norden out there, because she’s got some pretty good experience with the archeological aspects of that property. However, it sounds like she’s not available. So I will put it out. We do have space for one more Commissioner, any more than that would cause public hearing public noticing requirements and so on. So if if there’s anybody here that wants to show up out there at this Latin property Monday, a little before seven? Let us know. If not no big deal. I will be there on behalf of the commission.
Unknown Speaker 10:58
Did you already check with gaita? And
Unknown Speaker 11:02
I have not I can certainly throw that out there.
Unknown Speaker 11:05
He certainly has a lot of right that kind of experiences. Otherwise, I am available. Nobody else can make it. I’m just probably the least knowledgeable of such thing. So right happy though,
Unknown Speaker 11:20
we can reach out to gate I think Holly mentioned it at one time. We brought it up and yeah, she knows that survey. forwards and backwards. So we can reach out to her. There’s not a whole lot of time. But if we don’t hear Yeah, we’ll we’ll touch base with you, Terry. So gonna be kind of parked out there. They’re doing a tour of all their recreation facilities. So we have everybody’s cell phone number. So we can see because they tend to go along. But their their agenda has them out there at about five minutes to seven. So, yeah, we’ll we’ll keep that in mind and we can reach out to Geeta.
Unknown Speaker 12:01
Unknown Speaker 12:05
One thing I did want to mention, we did do a follow up with Gus, the structural engineer to say how should we should we dig a little deeper on the structural part of it. And he did recommend that we look at what kind of found foundation exists or does not exist by underneath some of the major posts in the barn. So we’re going to talk to public works of what that would take to kind of unearth around those posts to take a look at him. But that was really his biggest concern, in addition to what you read in the his report, so and I think, as Jennifer mentioned, I think we can ultimately get to a point where we could find that money in order to make that thing stand. So a big part of it’s going to be kind of convincing Parks and Rec board, it does come with a considerable mild what I think is pretty important open space there. So yeah, I think it’ll be important. The meeting on Monday.
Unknown Speaker 13:11
Next questions? Well,
Unknown Speaker 13:18
I could just offer that I do know the history of married deacons fairly well, if that would help. But in determining this, I don’t know how much historic aspect is important to parks and rec and how much he just the open space. But again, if you’d like to go, Terry, that’s fine, too. I have a question. How, how much of the land are we looking at possibly acquiring? Is it just the barn? There’s a fair amount of that parcel that is not usable, including where the sheds are falling down, going down to the creek and whatnot. Is the city going to try to acquire all of that DNA? Or is it premature to say at this point?
Unknown Speaker 13:52
Yeah, it’s pretty mature. I think at one point, they did offer all of it to us. But there was some concern about what kind of maintenance responsibility we take on so that hasn’t been answered yet. They are interested is if we do take on the barn, we would like frontage. So there is a portion that goes out to Latin drive, and that would at a minimum be probably included. But we’ll see right now they are already agreed to about two and a half acres. And this is like another two and a half acres. So it’s to be determined, I think.
Unknown Speaker 14:33
Yeah, if you had more space, you have more flexibility as far as usage, certainly the barn storage but if you were ever to expand the open space for more recreation,
Unknown Speaker 14:43
yeah. Right, there is a trail so it will give us more flexibility to do something with the trail to you and a lot of it’s in a floodplain. So that’s the other fun part.
Unknown Speaker 15:01
Any other questions? All right, well, thanks for the update. And we’ll see what happens on Monday. Okay, eight B would be an update on the historic preservation plan and surveys.
Unknown Speaker 15:25
Unfortunately, Brian wasn’t able to make it this evening. But Brian and I and Jennifer met with Jenny Dykeman. With History Colorado to talk about the non competitive grant, for we specifically asked for survey help and a survey plan. We got a pretty good positive input from them. Again, it’s non competitive. So if we make a good application, we should get at so that is our goal to move forward on that. The other part of the question was a preservation plan. And Brian provided a number of those to you, I think you’d like to Lafayette I think what would make sense is maybe do that survey plan. And I think that will help point us at what the priorities would be. So do we need somebody else to kind of draft what a preservation plan would show? I kind of like to wait and see of how much information we get from the survey plan. But we do have, we do have funding for that as well. So if that’s the next step, we could certainly do that. But I mean, one of the comments Jenny made to us is she seen a lot of those, she says they, they tend to all sound the same. After a while, I think everybody has the same goals and lets them into a preservation plan. Similarly, so I was thinking, you know, maybe it’s more of a, you know, historic preservation work plan going forward, once we know what the survey plan identifies for us. So that’s kind of our initial thinking. But I think our goal is to get that application in and it’s not time based. So I think they review it as they get them. And they’ll certainly give us input on along the way as well. So.
Unknown Speaker 17:29
So what do you think your timeline might be like? You think we could have it submitted before the next HPC? Meeting? The request?
Unknown Speaker 17:37
I think that’s possible. Yeah. We were talking about early fall. So yeah, yeah, that’s, that’ll be really right about that.
Unknown Speaker 17:46
Okay. Yeah. Well, that would be great. If we can do that. And yeah, any other any questions from commissioners about either the survey or historical plan? I mean, that feels reasonable to me, part of the part of the, our desire to do the survey plan was to, to get a sense of all of the areas in town, you know, the gaps in the areas that we’re familiar with, but also getting a sense of these outskirt areas like this Latin property that might be overlooked and really get a comprehensive notion of everything in the city limits that could benefit from that attention. So I, you know, make sense that that would sort of flow into an A skeleton outline of how a preservation plan would get put together.
Unknown Speaker 18:43
Yeah. Yeah. And just kind of discussing amongst staff, I guess, we were thinking, well, maybe focus in the original town side and the existing historic districts, but maybe more of like, maybe I tend to call them like a windshield survey outside the whole community. So if they see some, something pops out, and they say, then maybe dig into those a little bit in a little bit more detail. So we get a good comprehensive view of not only potential districts, but yeah, new landmarks.
Unknown Speaker 19:22
Right, all right. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 19:25
So then last update would be status of sir.
Unknown Speaker 19:31
Oh, and never say anything. So that’s not your fault. I just wanted to remind you that historic Eastside neighborhood association of the association would be there to help as well. And yeah, all these little barns on the outlying districts between here and hygiene. You know, that kind of thing. Right. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 19:56
Thanks. Sorry, I didn’t see that. crop up your turn. About half buries it in here. So just just wave at me.
Unknown Speaker 20:05
toughsystem you are just four of us. Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 20:13
Okay, so then HPC code amendments. So we’re where are we at with those connect when we are getting those here to review? Sooner than later,
Unknown Speaker 20:25
right? Yes. Now next step is Council has scheduled just recently a joint meeting with historic preservation, hopefully, you can be there, I It’s August 16. It’s a pre meeting before the regular city council meeting, or maybe it’s a work session that starts at 530. The pre meeting will be in the same room that we did the exact meeting. So you can all be sitting at the table, you know, looking eye to eye it’s a little bit better perspective. And in realizing that we both had I mean, with Councils had an executive session and historic preservation Commission’s had an executive session, and you’re still bound by the confidentiality of what we discussed there. I think what I was hoping this evening, maybe take a step back, because the timing for me has been a little odd in that I kind of came in halfway, we lost Jade. And I was kind of a real red line draft was kind of dropped in my lap, and it may be spun a little bit out of control. So I think it would really be helpful for me, is if you can maybe take a step back and say what were your really true goals of when you started this process? What were those burning issues, to make sure we don’t lose that and in all the other smoke and haze that’s going on? So and hopefully we kind of use that as a guide with the City Council. And then they’ll ultimately give us all direction, I guess, where they wanted to go. So I thought that might be helpful this evening is as far as go back in your memory, what were the real concerns with the current code? And and maybe keep those we’ll keep those kind of in the forefront?
Unknown Speaker 22:25
Sure, thanks. I can tell you, because I’ve been on this commission long enough that I know the the initial impetus was, in part a response to an I think it was a 90s era move where all of the review for demolition permits got pulled out of the HPC by a city council who didn’t want to have any of that is outside of their purview. So there’s, there’s a lot of politics around that particular move. And Brian thrilled up to speed on that. I think he’s the one who kind of gave us the whole outline. So So some of that was just trying to bring the process back into to this commission, which seemed like it made sense for demolition permits in historic neighborhoods and landmarks to be to be brought in. And then there’s some more subtleties there about, you know, how much how much per view we have. Right. And I think some of those were discussed at that executive session. Right. Right. That that was, that was a big piece, right? Just trying to get a review of any property that might be have a stored value, to have some mechanism to bring that in front of this commission, in order to have a another step of protection for set property. Right. That was that was a big goal. Open it up to any other comments that commissioners might have.
Unknown Speaker 24:17
You kind of want to look back at those notes to kind of review some of that. And it actually started before my time as well. So when when I arrived, you had the red line thing. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 24:31
Right. Yeah. So that that red line version was in, I guess, my first term, which was sort of, you know, the whole pre COVID thing. And then we were just we were looking at that and we were looking at other demolition ordinances that other cities had, and then trying to suggest that we have a little more teeth in the demolition ordinance. You know, For example, if somebody just go ahead and, and demolishes without, you know, any kind of permission, the penalties for that here currently are pretty mild or almost nothing. And so trying to discourage that from happening, just essentially just really putting in some safeguards as much as we can. And then it sort of expanded beyond that into a few other areas that we started thinking about tweaking the, our code, because it just seemed either out of date or not aligned with some of the other City’s codes in terms of, you know, how somebody might establish a district, you know, if there were enough people that wanted to try to make another district in town, what what that would, what that process would look like. There were some notions about demolition by neglect. That’s, you know, that’s probably another thing. And we’ve seen that right, in potentially, in this Latin property about, well, you know, somebody comes in says, Well, you know, the property’s fallen apart? Well, you’ve owned it for 20 years, and you haven’t maintained it. So that’s not really a mechanism for getting around the demolition ordinance. Right. It really high focus on trying to preserve the historic properties that we have, and put some safeguards in. I mean, I think that’s definitely, by far the overarching. Okay. That’s goal number one, one, A, one B. You know, there’s some other stuff that happens after that.
Unknown Speaker 26:43
All right. I did sense that there are discussions. But I do realize that we had that redline draft. And then we turned it over to our attorney, and we never really came back to you with it. And I think Terry was explained to me, so we never really had a chance of saying, this makes sense. This doesn’t make sense. So I thought, yeah, it’s probably my fault that we didn’t come back to you to kind of distill it down to what those big issues are. But I hope to do that here real soon. next couple of weeks.
Unknown Speaker 27:23
Yeah. And I know, there have been hiccups with just town attorneys and help. You know, there have been a number of hiccups along the way to get here. But yeah, that’s trying to think if there’s anything else that was of even reasonably high importance in there. That’s really, those are the big, big pieces. Right. Okay. And then the rest of it, I think, was just sort of clean up.
Unknown Speaker 27:49
While we’re in there stuff. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, yeah. And we’ll definitely get the word out to the commissioners who aren’t here. But that’s Tuesday night, August 16 530. In the room where we met in exec, so it is open to the public. We can’t fit all the public in there, but they do set up. They turn these monitors on so people can sit and watch. But it’s typically like a work session, so they won’t take questions from the public is just amongst you. So. Okay, great. All right. Excellent.
Unknown Speaker 28:30
Wonderful. Thank you. Any other questions about that? Or?
Unknown Speaker 28:36
Okay. All right. And then from there, I hope to start bringing forward red lines. And yeah, you can get it moving along.
Unknown Speaker 28:44
Unknown Speaker 28:47
Excellent. Okay, well, that moves us to comments from HPC. Commissioners. Anyone? Like to make? No. Okay. We’ll close that out comments from city council representative. Councilman Rodriguez is not with us tonight. So it moves us to adjournment. But unfortunately, we did not get this up half hour. Sorry, everyone. All right. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Okay. All right. Moved by Commissioner grown and seconded by Commissioner coat. Jacoby. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? None. We are adjourned. Thank you for your time. Thank you to staff and we’ll see you on this. We’ll see some of you on Monday and others on the 16th
Unknown Speaker 29:50
Excellent. Thank you.
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