Longmont City Council – Regular Session – July 26, 2022
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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Unknown Speaker 5:00
Unknown Speaker 17:48
Good evening, everyone and welcome. I would now like to call the July 26 2022. Long that city council regular session to order. Can we have a roll call please done?
Unknown Speaker 18:00
Absolutely. Mayor Beck,
Unknown Speaker 18:03
Unknown Speaker 18:04
Councilmember Hidalgo faring. Councilmember Martin.
Unknown Speaker 18:09
I’ll come back to her. She’s not on screen. Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez Here. Councilmember waters, Councilmember Yarborough? Here. Councilmember Martin?
Unknown Speaker 18:22
Here. Thank you, Mary, have a quorum. Thank you. Let’s stand for the pledge.
Unknown Speaker 18:32
pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Unknown Speaker 18:47
So as a reminder to the public, Anyone wishing to speak at a public first call public invited to be heard, you need to add your name onto the list outside the council chambers. Only those on the list will be invited to speak at the first public invited to be heard. speakers who do not place their names on the list will have the opportunity to speak during public hearing items this evening. Or at final call public invited to be heard on any item at the end of the meeting.
Unknown Speaker 19:16
Next on the agenda is the approval of the July 12 minutes do I have a motion?
Unknown Speaker 19:24
Unknown Speaker 19:27
I’ll second that. It’s been moved by Councillor waters seconded by myself all those in favor?
Unknown Speaker 19:34
Unknown Speaker 19:42
I don’t see
Unknown Speaker 19:49
no, let’s just have a hand vote. All those in favor. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 19:55
Did she go I can’t see her.
Unknown Speaker 19:58
Do we have the council head
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Any items to put on future agendas?
Unknown Speaker 20:04
Seeing none, Don, do we have any revisions to the agenda? We do not Mayor. Thank you. Harold, do you have a city manager’s report?
Unknown Speaker 20:13
Your Council? Okay. We have a special proclamation tonight. And it is a proclamation, Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology month in Longmont, Colorado. And we have the robotics team here that this proclamation is for. Whereas up a creek robotics team and the st. Brain schools won World Championships by Robotics Challenge team and tech challenge competition, and whereas school students are proficient in developing robotics as part of their education, and whereas the science department values this portion of education for development of future scientists, and whereas the same free and school system supports and promote science and technology and its curriculum for July 2022. Now therefore, I Joan Peck Mayor by virtue of the authority vested in me and the City Council of the City of U of Longmont, do hereby proclaim July 2022 as Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology month, in Longmont and call upon the residents of our community to join fellow citizens across the United States in recognizing and participating in this special observance. Would you like anyone like to come up and say a few words? And then we can take a picture if you’re interested?
Unknown Speaker 21:47
Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. My name is Dawn Hudson. I am a board member of the gear Alliance, which is the nonprofit that
Unknown Speaker 21:58
governs and funds up a creek robotics. I’m also an operations mentor for our FRC, our high school team, our largest high school team and then a mentor for our FLL program that has six to eight teams. So upper Creek robotics. This year, as you saw mentioned, we won worlds both at the FRC stage. And at the FT stage FTC stage. That’s the first time that has ever happened in first, that one organization has won a double championship at that time. This is also the first time that Colorado has won in either of these. So this really was a spectacular spectacular year for us.
Unknown Speaker 22:47
We have three programs. Like I mentioned before, we have our FRC program, which
Unknown Speaker 22:54
these two are our operations mentor and our operations lead and our technical lead at and we have about 80 kids in our program.
Unknown Speaker 23:05
Our FLL program has about 60 to 80 kids or hopefully not 80 kids. I really that’d be bad. So about 60 Kids, six to eight teams, four through eighth grade. So this year was a very, very good year, we went almost undefeated.
Unknown Speaker 23:27
We lost three, right? Last three out of 58 matches throughout the season. So it was a really, really a spectacular team. Our FRC team, being World Champion means that we basically beat 3200 teams around the world. So it was a really, really great year. Thank you for this honor. We are really, really pleased to be here. And I’m going to turn it over to Frank to talk about FTC.
Unknown Speaker 23:57
Thanks, Don. I’m Tom Wilkie. I’m a mentor, one of many supporters of the organization. I’m also served on the Eurolines board with Don. And I wanted to thank you, Marissa Mayer, Peck and the Council for recognizing this team. as Don mentioned, it was quite an accomplishment. And she mentioned that there are 3200 teams that are associated in with the FRC program. With the FTC program. There are 6300 teams in 60 countries across the world. And the fact that we were able to this team was able to win the world championship is is spectacular. And something we have a range of students from, from freshmen to seniors and our seniors. We have four seniors this year. One of our seniors here is Sam said four years ago that we’re gonna win a world championship and I said yeah, sure.
Unknown Speaker 24:48
And that’s what happened. So we’re really very proud of this team. We also wanted to thank the st. Green School Districts and Green Valley School District for supporting us. They are a big supporter of our
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Graham’s obviously, in addition to some corporate sponsors, among them Toro, Seagate, first Raf, bulk Corporation, and others, and then the many adult volunteers like Don and me who, who, whose purpose is to win competitions. But more than that, to grow the the students capabilities regarding stem, and also regarding citizenship, a large part of the first organization is geared around greases professionalism, and about helping your competitors even at your detriment if that’s required to uplift the entire STEM community in the world. Fantastic. Where was this Championship held? Where Where did you go? Yes, Houston, Texas. Okay. So there, there are levels. There are local tournaments that are run in various cities in Colorado. Then there’s a state tournament or tier one state tournament that qualifies to be one of 160 teams out there 6300 teams that went to the World Championship in Houston Texas. Fantastic. Would you like a picture? Yes, okay.
Unknown Speaker 26:46
Unknown Speaker 27:20
Unknown Speaker 27:29
so the next thing on our presentation is the Boulder County Transportation tax. And Phil greenwall. Our transportation planning manager is going to introduce the item and present it
Unknown Speaker 27:42
while sort of present Mayor, Members of city council. My name is Phil Greenwald, transportation planning manager with the city. And that’s my pleasure tonight to introduce Matt Jones, the CEO of the Boulder County Commissioner to introduce his team. So with that, I’ll introduce Matt.
Unknown Speaker 28:04
Good evening. Good to see all of you here.
Unknown Speaker 28:08
My name is Matt Jones. I’m a Boulder County Commissioner. Thanks for giving us time for this item. It affects everybody in the county. And so we’re going around to different city councils and talking about it in appreciate during the transportation tax extension conversation. I’m going to also mention two other ballot measures we’re going to propose or potentially proposed this year. We will vote on August 4, to see if those go on the ballot.
Unknown Speaker 28:36
We did a survey this last May. And there was this real theme of Public Safety Safety in general, which fits the transportation tax but it also fits a wildfire mitigation tax and an emergency services tax and we are going to vote on and are considering.
Unknown Speaker 28:56
I live in Lewisville. I’m lucky to have a house.
Unknown Speaker 29:01
We had ash damage like everybody else but we have stuff house and that’s been 1082 Other people do no longer have a home. And they’re rebuilding and it’s a very difficult process. But what that Marshal fire told us is we’re in different times.
Unknown Speaker 29:18
Climate change. I used to do work on wildland fire issues trying to get money for forest health mitigation at the State Senate used to say,
Unknown Speaker 29:27
you know this won’t affect my community, but it’s really important work. Well, I was wrong. Dead wrong. It’s just it’s
Unknown Speaker 29:36
we have a real issue. So what we’re suggesting is the transportation tax would be the extension of the point one cent so it’s 1/10 of one penny or 1/10 of one when pity 1/10 of a penny on $1 Took me a while to get that out. fire mitigation at the same rate.
Unknown Speaker 29:55
And it’s two parts of it. There’s the forest health part the fires
Unknown Speaker 30:00
Good work, you may be familiar with Lavazza Parker in that work, especially around your water supply and button rock reservoir. And that’s where we just got some saved money, which we’re really excited about. But it’s a million dollars metal treat about 325 acres of forest and we have something like 64,000 high priority acres that should be treated for fire safety, health and water issues. The second part of that is you may be fit familiar with wildfire partners, we’re in the mountains, we help people make their homes more fire resistant, more ignition resistant.
Unknown Speaker 30:33
And we’re taking that countywide we’re already doing a pilot, east of Boulder basically. And that, we’re going to spread that out. And it’s a lot different than managing 8000 People in the mountains and 30,000 300,000 on the plains. So it’ll be look a little different, but that’s the idea. Help people make their homes more resilient.
Unknown Speaker 30:57
Now, you may think that’s a long way from long bought but I sent me or Becca model and I’ll send the rest to you have a UCAR scientist is one of the best in the world modeling wind patterns and fire. And you might remember on December 30, there was the marshal fire ignition. But there’s also the North Fork fire up by the Greenbrier restaurant. Unfortunately, they caught that fire, her modelling predicted where the marshal fire would go. And it predicted that fire, if it were to run, would run all the way into long one.
Unknown Speaker 31:31
And through llama.
Unknown Speaker 31:33
And once it gets into houses, you know, just a configuration, it gets worse. The other one the other tax measures, point 1% Going down after five years 2.05%. And it’s for emergency response. You may know Rocky Mountain Rescue, who goes up around 200 calls a year, their volunteer, we support them, but they have facilities falling apart. And we need to help them rebuild a
Unknown Speaker 32:03
frugal but needed facility. And that’s why it goes for five years and dry reduces. We also will work on we provide ambulance service up in the mountains where the all volunteer fire departments are to augment met them. And the third thing would be we would have supplemental fire districts that aren’t municipal areas
Unknown Speaker 32:26
with equipment and training and all those kinds of things so that they’re more prepared. So those are the things we’re voting on August 4. And we just for me, they’re just critical.
Unknown Speaker 32:39
Times have changed.
Unknown Speaker 32:42
We tried to be careful about not asking more than we need right now.
Unknown Speaker 32:47
But we do need this so that we can have homes more resistant to fire. So we can have a chance of stopping a fire in the mountains on fire. It’s it’s about firefighter safety, in part because it’s a lot easier to put out a fire in an area that has been prescribed, then with mechanical by mechanical chainsaws and burned.
Unknown Speaker 33:10
We need to think a different way. And that’s what we’re doing here that will go back and what we’ll talk about today, mostly and but you can ask questions or give us comments on all three of these. But the transportation tax we’re gonna go a little deeper. You’ve been working on this a while but I’ll let Kathleen Brockie, our Department of Transportation Director give you overview of what we’re going to do. And not again, thanks for letting us talk to you today.
Unknown Speaker 33:40
Commissioner Jones, just FYI, I did pass on that information to the other counselors that you sent to me.
Unknown Speaker 34:06
You can use that or you can.
Unknown Speaker 34:10
Great. Good evening. Thank you so much, Commissioner Jones for the introduction and to Mayor Peck and the Council for the opportunity to be here tonight. I’m Kathleen Brockie. I’m the Deputy Director for boulder County’s community planning and permitting department and I lead our transportation planning team. And also with me this evening is Tim Swope from our public works department. So we really appreciate the opportunity to be here and talk with you about transportation and transportation funding. And I’ll just go ahead and go quickly, hopefully quickly through these.
Unknown Speaker 34:44
Maybe I’ll try this one.
Unknown Speaker 34:47
And it was all going so well.
Unknown Speaker 34:50
You want to do or
Unknown Speaker 34:53
oh there we go. And as we get started this evening, we just have a brief video to share with you that kind of help.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
So talk about transportation across Boulder County and all the different types of transportation. And I’m gonna see if this works. I’ll try it down here.
Unknown Speaker 35:11
Oh, that didn’t work. Okay, take a look. I’m really glad you’re here
Unknown Speaker 35:25
there Ted, can you just a second?
Unknown Speaker 35:59
Can you see that okay, Marcia?
Unknown Speaker 36:05
Yes, thank you. No problem. Thanks. Boulder County is a great place to live, work and play with beautiful scenery, countless opportunities for recreation, strong sense of community and robust local economies. There’s so much to love about Boulder County. Our multimodal transportation network connects our communities and places we want to go. Whether it’s taking transit to work, riding a bike on the US 36 bikeway. Walking our kids to school, or driving to an appointment. Boulder County’s multimodal transportation network helps to get us there. Going forward, Boulder County’s transportation needs are changing and the transportation system must adapt to meet the community’s changing needs. Not everyone has access to all transportation options. And too often our current methods of transportation are too expensive and contribute to climate change and poor air quality. To achieve our community’s vision of a safe, sustainable, affordable and inclusive transportation network. We need to work together to prioritize our transportation investments and plan for a future that serves all of us to address the challenges we face now and in the future. Boulder County’s transportation Master Plan provides a blueprint for us to work off of. And as we prepare for the future of getting around our county, we want to continue hearing from you on what you’d like to see the county prioritize,
Unknown Speaker 37:23
and TMP includes project to improve Boulder County roadways, transit, regional trails, and bicycle and pedestrian facilities. Were working with local and state partners on planning improvements for regional corridors, such as Colorado 119, US 287 and Colorado seven. Our focus is on the community and giving users multimodal mobility choices regardless of where they are coming from and going to in Boulder County and beyond. Vision Zero is our ambitious safety program. We set a goal to eliminate serious injury and fatal traffic crashes in unincorporated Boulder County by 2035.
Unknown Speaker 38:06
We are dedicated to achieving our goal and providing the public with a transportation system where anyone can travel about the county safely and comfortably. Regardless of mode. We’re going to achieve our goal by collaborating with stakeholders engaging with the public and using a proactive data driven approach to eliminate crashes and prioritize safer road design and educational strategies.
Unknown Speaker 38:36
Boulder County’s mobility for all and new transportation programs to address the unique needs of our vulnerable and underserved populations. We know that transportation is essential to accessing education, health care, recreation and economic opportunities in Boulder County. By enhancing mobility and transportation options for people of all ages, abilities and incomes. We foster vibrant, healthy and equitable communities.
Unknown Speaker 39:00
We are enhancing our mountain area connections by creating programs and services that are designed for the unique needs of the counties mountain communities. We are working to continue our strong history of combining local state and federal funding to bring the community’s transportation vision to life. Boulder County prioritizes investments and multimodal corridors, to give people options to use all modes of transportation and support our clean air and climate goals. With your help all of these programs and projects can come together to create a safe, affordable, affordable, sustainable and resilient transportation system in Boulder County.
Unknown Speaker 39:50
Get back to the slides.
Unknown Speaker 39:52
And thank you for
Unknown Speaker 39:55
the chance to share that video with you. I think it’s helpful to see when we talked about transportation and all that
Unknown Speaker 40:00
different types. And for Boulder County the focus really is on how do we move people goods and services. Oftentimes we can talk about cars and buses and bikes and trucks. But really the transportation system is how are we able to move people through the county. So I’m going to go ahead and keep going here. And when we talk about Boulder County Transportation System, it’s important to talk about how do we fund those improvements across the county. Like your local community, we receive funding through vehicle registration fees and gas tax. But really, the bread and butter are foundational funding for our multimodal transportation system comes from the 0.1% sales tax that Boulder County has had in place for approximately 20 years. And that is really critical for us to be able to continue investing in all of these different transportation options and choices for people. To date, the transportation sales tax for Boulder County has been used to invest in a whole variety of multimodal improvements across the county connecting the communities together, safety improvements, improvements for people walking and biking, and taking transit. And we’re very thankful that we’ve had those resources to do those projects over the years. And to partner with local communities like the city of Longmont and to go after grant funding together for state and federal sources.
Unknown Speaker 41:23
As we look to the future, though, our current sales tax for transportation funding is expiring in mid 2024. And so we need to be thinking about now how to where do we go from there. And this is, again, that foundational funding for us. And as a transportation planner, when I think about 2024, that feels like tomorrow. So even though we’re in 2022. So so we have been working for the last several months, through Boulder County, with the commissioners and outreaching, with local jurisdictions and other stakeholders to talk about what what can we do and what can we look to the future in order to create a more predictable, sustainable funding source for transportation in Boulder County. The other reason why now is the right time to be talking about this conversation is that for the first time in a long time, in decades, honestly, there’s new money available for transportation. There’s new state money that’s been created by Senate Bill 260 last year, and new federal money for transportation that was created through the federal infrastructure bill. And so the time is right to have the opportunity to go out and get these additional new state and federal dollars. But as we all know, those opportunities come with a local matching requirement. And that local match can be anywhere from 20% to 30 40%, depending on the type of grant funding. But having a predictable funding source for transportation in Boulder County will help us have those local matching dollars again, to be able to sustain those partnerships and go after those additional new state and federal funding at this unique moment in time, I also think it’s important to talk about what happens if we don’t do this. Because this isn’t a new funding sources is something we’ve been relying on now for for 20 years. And as I said, it’s our basic foundational funding for multimodal transportation. So if we were not able to continue funding for this 0.1% sales tax, we would not be able to continue to offer the programs and services and the types of projects that we’re offering today. So it is very important for us it’s very serious for us and we want to make sure we’re able to come forward with options for consideration by the county commissioners and by the voters to be able to sustain our funding sources going forward. And in terms of what would this new funding her extension of funding allow us to do, it will allow us to continue our work around roadway safety and resiliency projects. Again, have you heard the message in the video about the importance of Vision Zero and safety across Boulder County. What allows us to continue to offer our mobility programs for people of all ages and stages of life. also continue to sustain the building out our regional Trails Network based on the trails master plan, and also the commuter bikeways across the corridor. And it would also allow us to continue to support transit services across the Boulder County in partnership with all of the other providers including RTD, and others and so we want to be able to provide complimentary or layered transit services in Boulder County using these dollars again to help create partnerships and leverage other funding. And then our regional corridors are critical. We talk about transportation across Boulder County. It’s not just at the county scale, but it’s really connecting the communities across Boulder County and how are we designing and implementing regional corridors that help people drive take transit and connect by other ways across the county.
Unknown Speaker 44:56
And as we’ve been giving these presentations to different audiences
Unknown Speaker 45:00
is one of the questions we’ve gotten as well, what do we mean by all of those different descriptions. And you know, we work in the transportation space on a daily basis. And sometimes we realize we speak a whole different language. And so we wanted to be able to provide some examples of what we mean by these different project category types. So when we talk about mobility and access programs, it’s really about the programs and services to help people be able to access the transportation system. So it may be through on demand services, eco pass programs, we’ve just started a new program to offer eco passes at Boulder County Housing Authority sites, also education. There’s different paths programs out there, but it’s sometimes complicated to know how to access those or how to use those. And some of them are, you need to have an app or different things like that. So we want to be able to offer the programs and services to help connect people to those different transportation services so they can get around for all different types of trips across the county. And this summer, we’re in the process of wrapping up a boulder county’s first coordinated Human Services Plan. And so that again, highlight some of the action items similar to these listed here on the screen that would help connect people across Boulder County.
Unknown Speaker 46:16
I also mentioned the roadway safety and resilience projects. Again, how do we have resources to be able to add shoulders to the roadways, shoulders, improve safety for people using all modes of transportation, intersection improvement projects, as well as improvements and repair in our mountain communities. And then also recognizing the impact that climate change is having on our infrastructure system and having dollars available to improve our bridges and culverts to be more resilient over time.
Unknown Speaker 46:48
And then, importance of our regional trails and bikeways we have a lot of great examples across Boulder County connecting our communities again, they’re great for families, they’re great for commuting. And then our regional trails of bikeways are also used by many people to connect to regional transit. So each of these different types of infrastructure are important in and of themselves, but also in terms of connecting people to the other modes and services. This slide provides some examples of what we mean by transit service in Boulder County again RTD provides the regional system and some of the local routes as well. And then Boulder County offers services to help complement those routes. So for example, we are funding right free Lafayette and on demand service in the Lafayette community. We are partnering with both public and private sector partners on a gun barrel on demand service to help connect employment centers with the 119 corridor and the recreational shuttles. And then other types of services. We started a new service this summer called the lions flyer. It connects between a lions and Boulder, replacing the service that used to be called the Y that was operated by RTD. But that service was cut.
Unknown Speaker 48:04
I think a really important service to offer to highlight tonight, especially in Longmont is the partnership that we all have together to run the flex service, which is express
Unknown Speaker 48:15
service between Fort Collins and Loveland in Longmont into into boulder. And that service has been a multi agency partnership for a number of years that runs a few trips in the morning, in and out of between Larimer County and Boulder County, really serving workforce trips. And so those types of partnerships, I think are some good examples of how we can leverage our transit funding and be able to partner with other agencies to grow transit options of all different shapes and sizes.
Unknown Speaker 48:47
And then an important aspect that’s highlighted in Boulder County’s transportation master plan, and certainly in the Northwest Area mobility study that we’ve all been working on together with our agencies are these regional corridors and when we talk about those, it’s not just the line on a map, but it’s really about creating options and choices for people for all of these corridors. For example, a long, we’ve been working together for many years on the 119 Diagonal project connecting Longmont and Boulder, and then also recognizing that it’s about 30% of the people traveling on 119 are actually traveling to and from Larimer and southwest Weld County. So it’s very much a regional inter regional corridor. But what I think is important when I look at this map is that each of the corridors are important 287 and 119. But it’s about when you put them all together, it really creates a network of mobility so that people have options and choices to connect across Boulder County and and beyond.
Unknown Speaker 49:45
So as we were developing the different funding scenarios for for transportation funding, we looked at a whole range of options and what could be funded at all those different levels. And then, as Commissioner Jones mentioned, Boulder County conducted the public
Unknown Speaker 50:00
A survey and the polling. And really what we learned to that is while there might be a whole set of options that could be looked at in terms of funding levels, really where people feel more comfortable today is just what the straight extension of the current level of funding at the 0.1%, or that 10th of a penny level to continue that going forward. So that was really important to us. Because again, we could come up with all kinds of ideas. But if they’re not going to be supported by the community, and by the public, and by the voters, that’s not very practical to bring that forward. So this really helped to inform our recommendations at the staff level is to bring forward this recommendation for an extension of the current funding for transportation at that 0.1% level. I’ll go through these pretty quickly. And so as we look forward, well, we think it’s helpful to look back before we look forward, in terms of how have we been investing these dollars over the last number of years, really, again, it’s been that combination of roadway trails and transit and regional corridors. As we look forward for investing in transportation in the future, we want to continue funding at the all of those important categories, and also add a portion of funding for those mobility programs. So it’s really critical services and programs to help vulnerable populations across Boulder County. So we’re recommending that we squeezed in a little bit of funding for those programs as well.
Unknown Speaker 51:24
So some of this is just a summary of some of the types of projects we’ve developed a draft project list that we’ve shared with Phil and with other staff from across the communities across Boulder County, again, wanting to get a good, balanced approach of a multimodal investment package to bring forward for consideration. And so really, why we’re here tonight is to seek your input and your feedback on what do you think are the types of project categories that are most important for us to propose investing in going forward? And which do you think would be most supported by the community? So with that, I just like to open it up for questions. As Commissioner Jones mentioned, we’re planning, we’re continuing this outreach with communities this month, and then we’ll be going to the county commissioners for public hearing on August 4. So that wraps up our presentation. And then again, we just have learned discussion questions for you all this evening. So thank you.
Unknown Speaker 52:18
Thank you, Kathleen, do we have any questions from commissioners or topics of discussion?
Unknown Speaker 52:27
Councillor waters, thanks for your packet, just not really, in terms of the priorities. But just a reminder, it may have been in the presentation, I just didn’t pick it up.
Unknown Speaker 52:37
Point 1% generate of
Unknown Speaker 52:41
in the sales tax now generates how much annually? So
Unknown Speaker 52:47
currently, it’s somewhere just under $8 million a year. That’s county wide. So we would anticipate that Do you have any kind of projection that as the population grows or what happens with the economy what that might turn into?
Unknown Speaker 53:03
As far as the long term? Yeah, over the next year, that would be
Unknown Speaker 53:08
certainly have lots of conversations with our budget office but predicting the future, it’s helpful $8 million a year is the budget for that mix of projects and priorities. Thanks. Correct. And that’s really what we’re working from. So our scenarios we’ve been developing off the current scenario. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 53:26
And I know even though that sounds like a lot of money, none of these projects could be finished without grants, federal assistance, state assistance. So you do a great job, Kathleen, thank you. Well, it’s a team effort with all of us and the communities as well. So thank you. Thank you for all the work you do in our city as well.
Unknown Speaker 53:47
Oh, there she is. Clean. We have Councillor myopic Councillor Martin.
Unknown Speaker 53:56
Thank you, Mr. Peck.
Unknown Speaker 53:59
I have a just one or two questions. You went through the book in slide kind of fast for me to catch the numbers. Is this extension the low book and number? Correct? Yes. That’s the low bookend is the current current funding level extended okay, my mountain and this does the no BRT
Unknown Speaker 54:24
aspect of this mean that the funding for the
Unknown Speaker 54:30
bus rapid transit between Longmont and Boulder along 119 is cut or does that mean that it’s doesn’t happen as fast or what? So it would means that we have to leverage more of the funding so we would have the current level of dollars that we have today to invest in the regional corridors and I’m not sure where to look for the camera. We wanted to respond. So we would have the same level of funding today. So in order to advance that we just need to continue to partner and leverage those
Unknown Speaker 55:00
dollars continue working with RTD RTD would be the operator for the bus rapid transit service on the 119. Corridor. We had a meeting with them this afternoon. So they would really be the operator for that service. And then these dollars would be used to help augment that could be enhancing the station areas that could be enhancing the first and final mile connections to and from the bus rapid transit stops, for example. So yes, we have to use these,
Unknown Speaker 55:28
these limited dollars to do the best we can to leverage the funding from others and to continue to go after state and federal funding together. Okay, thank you. We just this is not in the program. Correct.
Unknown Speaker 55:42
Just I think one important point, that specific slide, that was supposed to be a very small note, that mileage number does not include the BRT services. But that doesn’t mean that the BRT, Boulder County doesn’t mean that border county wouldn’t contribute to the services.
Unknown Speaker 56:01
Thank you for that. That helps clarify, and we’re glad to provide the slides as well, if that would be helpful and answer any additional questions as we go to. I would like the slides in case there are any questions from our residents or it would be great. We’d be glad to. And we’re in the process of updating all the information on boulder County’s transit, transportation sales tax webpage. So all the information, the videos, the slides, all of the information will be up there as well as the draft project list. So that’s all in progress. Perfect. Thank you. Great, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 56:39
So I failed to recognize Tim Swope over here is a transportation engineer. Tim keeps the list as I think about all the projects and he meets with folks like Phil all the cities to figure out what are the priorities together and elected officials to the consortium of cities. And it’s to me emblematic of the cooperation we have with cities and Longmont in particular. And that you know, like the flood I think the natural disasters I think if it is one two punch, it’s the flood and then this Marshal fire and we just appreciate you doing that with us. So you don’t find that a lot of places and so thanks very much for your work and making that happen. And we look forward to working with you some more than that thanks goes to our incredible staff did a great job same here
Unknown Speaker 57:36
so we’re now at first call public invited to be heard.
Unknown Speaker 57:41
You have three minutes and if you would state your state your name and address that would be great. The first on the list is Cat Bennett.
Unknown Speaker 57:56
Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of Council, cat Bradley Bennett 5914 Blue Mountain circle here in Longmont. I’m a Boulder County native, and I’ve been a bird watcher for more than half of my life. So a few years. I’m here tonight to advocate for those banks follows over at Rogers grove. Since the early 1970s. I’ve participated in annual Christmas and spring bird counts in Boulder County and around Longmont.
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My spring count area includes the nyuad Trail and 30 to 40 years ago, my account partner and I could always be guaranteed to find Bank Swallows nesting in the bank of the boulder left hand ditch down there. We haven’t seen the birds in that area for more than 20 years. I’m not sure why it could be too much human interference because the trail is really close to the bank, but they haven’t been there for more than two decades. Historically, this bird has not been a species of concern, but that’s changing and it’s changing rapidly. They are in decline. In Canada, the species is listed as threatened habitat loss from
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development and flood mitigation or is the biggest cause for that decline.
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So after the demanding task of child rearing, are a little birds over there are going to endure molting. Before flying to South America for the winter. Some will go as far as Argentina. This is an arduous journey, many won’t make it back. survival of the species depends on successfulness nests year after year. This requires food and reliable habitat reliable because they always come back to the same nesting site every year. They need very specific soil strata. The kind lay down by mother nature in a nice riparian area. They need a steep grade to the bank, the kind that is carved out by the natural flow of rivers and streams. And ideally the bank is higher than 10 feet because studies show
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The higher the bank, the more successful the nests are going to be.
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So Rogers Grove has all of these in that area where those birds are nesting right now. Bank Swallows are so dependent on riparian areas that their scientific name is actually Riparia Riparia. So I’m asking you to include in the language of the bond issue coming up tonight that will guarantee the protection of these birds at Rogers grove. If they returned to find that the bank is gone, or it’s been turned into a concrete channel. They will be unlikely to find a suitable nesting site before the season is done and the next generation is doomed. We have 30 plus nesting pairs that’s anywhere from 60 to 100. adult birds plus babies down there. This is unique in Boulder County. Tonight their fate is in your hands. Thank you. Thank you, cat.
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I’m gonna call on three of you if you want to come up and just sit in the seats share Jamie SEMO sharing Malloy and Nadine Lester.
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Jamie SEMO 517 Independence drive.
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Later this evening you will be deciding on whether or not to approve a resolution which would put a ballot measure up for vote in November. This ballot measure would ask voters to approve issuing up to $20 million of storm drainage revenue bonds to finance the completion of the resilient st rain project RSVP, which includes flood mitigation work in the city reached three that portion of the same brain between sunset Street and airport road that encompasses Rogers Grove nature area.
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City staff recommends that you approve the ballot language as currently written. However, I and the other members of stand with our St. Vrain Creek ask that you revise the language prior to approval in order to add the phrase and while preserving the established banks while I habitat at Rogers Grove after the words without imposing new taxes or increasing existing taxes.
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We’ve previously been told that plans to protect the banks wells are premature given that there isn’t a plan for flood mitigation in the vicinity of Rogers grove. However, the engineering firm Jacobs prepared a final assessment of several conceptual design options for city reached three back in 2019. Written assurance regarding the preservation of the Rogers Grove Bank Swallows is necessary given that the conceptual design options and this assessment including the city’s preferred option of a split flow channel that would run under Overstreet would almost certainly destroy the nesting habitat for this rare and declining species.
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As residents of Longmont, we do not want to fund flood mitigation work at the expense of this threatened species, especially since there are undoubtedly other ways to protect the banks while the nesting habitat while also achieving the objectives of RSVP. I’m not a hydraulic engineer, therefore asking me to come up with an alternatives to the city’s preferred conceptual design is merely an exercise in futility. But I will point out that Longmont owns a not inconsiderable amount of property to the north and east of the bank in which the bank’s walls are nesting.
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If all options are really on the table, then all other options should be exhausted before deciding that the bank swallow habitat at Rogers Grove must be sacrificed. In closing, I must correct what appears to be a misconception held by some city officials that FEMA the Federal Emergency Management Agency, creates flood mitigation designs that they create as created designs for Longmont, and that these designs are set in stone. FEMA has guidelines for doing flood mitigation, but it doesn’t do actual design. It is a federal agency that provides resources for municipalities to pursue funding design plans, etc. Based on their own community’s needs. As stated on its website. FEMA works with federal, state, tribal and local partners to identify flood risk and update flood maps. In addition, because flood risks change, FEMA floodplain maps can be revised, which is what the completed RSVP is intended to do remove 800 plus acres of land from the 100 year floodplain per current FEMA floodplain maps. If a community or property owner disagrees with famous flood risk determination or if construction construction or flood mitigation work changes flood risk, FEMA is flood risk determination can either be appealed or a letter of map change can be submitted which FEMA will review and either accept or deny. Therefore the conceptual design options I refer to above absolutely can and above all should be revised to protect the banks halls. Thank you. Thank you, Jamie. Sherry.
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Sherry Malloy. 3016 32 Sherman way, stand with our st. Great St. Frankrijk. Supporters and our residents wearing green tonight, who advocate for long run policy and practices that reflect good stewardship of our public investment that aligns with our core values to protect habitat and the wildlife it supports. Our priority right now is saving our Rogers Grove Bank Swallows as you decide the bank but ballot language for flood mitigation funding from sunset to airport right now tonight. These threatened bank swells are
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Caring for and feeding their babies. We had 30 people at our birdwalk to view these birds on Sunday. People like and care about this stuff. Every survey the city does demonstrates the importance residents plays on preservation of our natural amenities. This makes sense His nature has tremendous value for our health and well being. Just a 15 minute walk in nature improves mental health, including memory and concentration, stress and anxiety are reduced and depression decreased. Physical health is improved through lowered blood pressure and improved immune systems. Being in natural areas and viewing wildlife feels good and is good. We need nature and she needs us to protect and respect her. Stan started a postcard campaign asking council to protect our banks while colony as mitigation gets funded and designed people really want to sign these porker postcards so we’re going to keep giving them this opportunity. Right now we have just over 300
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filled out. We will present all to you on September 6 Just before the final ballot laden language is submitted for the election. Tonight we are requesting that you include one phrase in the ballot measure to save our swallows the proposed language you’re voting on reads without imposing new taxes or increasing exists existing taxes. Here we want to add while preserving and establish the established banks while habitat Rogers Grove and it goes on the city of Longmont shall be authorized to borrow up to $20 million, and so on. We understand and support the need to continue with flood mitigation funding and implementation. We have no issue with the big publicly funded price tag. We’re okay with the unavoidable disruption that will result when this section is under construction. We realize this area is going to look and feel very different from what we’ve come to enjoy and appreciate. All we’re asking is for assurance that our public money will not be used to destroy this habitat. As a certain if the Army Corps design is adopted after funding is secured. There is ample open space land on the north side of the creek and Rogers grove on the south side for alternate plans that would avoid wiping out our swallows. Let me be clear, we want to vote for this ballot measure. We just need language that upholds our values included. Including this protection language is a triple win. A likely election win for mitigation funding. A win for the bank swells and a win for public trust. Local government. Thank you.
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Mayor pack and long mon council members. Good evening. I’m nating Lester 1517. Mayfield lane. Are you willing to stand with the people of Longmont to protect our towns nature area at Rogers grove? I’m asking you because about 30 taxpaying members of the community stood up with me at Rogers Grove this past Sunday morning, where birding experts showed us the nesting site of Longmont only bank swallow colony on Sunday morning. They thanked stand with our st brain for organizing the Save Our swallows viewing event, and the same neighbors asked us to continue speaking up on their behalf. That’s why I’m here. It’s kind of amazing that we still have Bank Swallows along the st rain at all. But because there hasn’t been any unwise development at or near Rogers Grove, Longmont spank swallow colony remains. We all know changes ahead in the form of flood mitigation for this area. But destroying the bank swallow habitat in the process is not inevitable. There were people in attendance on Sunday, who talked about effective flood mitigation projects, projects that also preserve wildlife habitats. These kinds of projects result when flood water experts work together with conservationists to build sustainable hybrid flood controls that include natural buffers and minimize gray engineered infrastructure. There are nature respectful strategies out there. Longmont has a parks Public Works and Natural Resources Department. We’ve got a land program administrator and environment, environmental sustainability planner, a natural resources planner, experts who know about flood risks, FEMA maps, federal flood mitigation standards, and wildlife monitoring. Let’s ask them to find the right design for flood control at Rogers Grove, a design that will protect the Bank Swallows, but why bother? Because we also have an alert population who want their voices heard when it comes to protecting nature on our public lands. Some are newcomers. Some have lived here a long time. All taxpayers with love have natural outdoor spaces in common. And the truth is everyone
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Then Longmont benefits when the community can trust you, our local government to understand our concerns and to act on the priorities of regular folks outside the business community. So city council, stand with us tonight, direct city staff to amend the ballot language so that we protect bank swallow habitat while we fund and design storm drainage systems. Of course we can work with nature to defend against let’s do we have the will and the energy to do it. Don’t undervalue long months existing treasures like the Bank Swallows tonight amend this ballot language to protect them here in our common home. Thank you very much. Thank you, Nadine.
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If I can have Ruby Bowman, Marian, Peppa Meyer and Julia obra. O’Brien I’m sorry I mispronounced that come up, please. Hi, Ruby Bowman 1512. Left hand dry. There are three issues that I would like to address this evening regarding the storm drainage bond. One city council should make it abundantly clear to the public that the storm drainage bond is not free. On October 2620 21, City Council approved an increase of the storm drainage fee, a fee that appears on our monthly utility bill and one that I and other customers have to pay each month. Staff told you in the August 24 2021 communication memo that one of five major factors influencing the fee increase was a funding need of $2,016,000 for two years of debt service payments on a storm drainage bond issuance for the overreach the ballot language phrase without imposing new taxes or increasing existing taxes is misleading and it makes it seem as if the Bond didn’t require additional money from residents to fund it. The storm drainage fund is an enterprise fun. Enterprises can’t levy taxes so the phrase seems out of place in the ballot language. user fee increases can be imposed to collect more revenue for an enterprise and that’s what council did. You approved the storm drainage utility bill fee increase last year to fund the overreach dome storm drainage bond council should include a phrase in the ballot language informing residents you are charging them more on their utility bills to pay for the bond. It’s important to be transparent to originally the storm drainage Bond was going to be 15 million but it’s up to 20 million. Now. Where would the city find extra money to cover the cost of servicing $5 million additional debt? Well, programs that were supposed to be funded with the storm drainage be increased be cut entirely, such as rebates and storm drain, storm drainage rates for low income households. This needs to be clarified. Three. The ballot language must include assurances that the city will preserve thanks swallow habitat and Rogers grow. I don’t want my money I pay on my YouTube utility bill facilitating the destruction of banks for habitat, which by the way survived the 2013 flood since the 1990s. Bank swallow populations have declined by 95% due to due to development and flood mitigation. My decision to vote for the bond will depend on whether the city makes a commitment in the ballot language to preserve the bank swallow habitat in Rogers Grove Thank you. Thank you Ruby
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Marion pepple Meyer 33 spruce view cart, Columbus, Ohio.
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I am the daughter of Marian Pierce hobgood who was killed the night of November first 1955 When United Airlines flight 629 exploded over beet fields in Weld County, Colorado. And man put a bomb on the plane to collect insurance for his mother. My father was only 31 years old and left my mother with one child and one on the way which was me.
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It would only be 42 years later, I finally heard my mother’s story from her viewpoint from her perspective. Her story began my healing of finding my father. But I am here today after six six years to turn such evil tragedy and trauma and to day of thanksgiving for all the unsung heroes from your community in Longmont. Hundreds of Weld County Longmont residents exhibited much bravery, courage and compassion
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In the efforts to recover the bodies, search for survivors and assist authorities in any way they could. Your community rose to the occasion and displayed untold American spirit, courage and heroism.
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After the explosion, I said hundreds came on the scene they work with the FBI, civil air their narrow minded sport, Aeronautics Board, but no survivors were found among the wreckage. The beauty is that local brisk businesses also rally to exist. Some provided sandwiches around the clock while others like the Longmont, American Legion serve coffee around the clock to the 500 citizens that were on that field. working that night. The phone company ran extra lines just for communication purposes, and generators were brought to light the area and dark field. The Greeley armory, for example, was turned into the morgue, where the bodies were plagued. The scars of traumatic memories of ascension this tragedy would have had to linger for years among these heroes, as well as the families like mine who lost their loved ones. Someone on that field found my father covered him and transported his body to Greeley armory.
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Therefore, in conclusion, Words cannot express my gratitude to all the people who rally their strength and fortitude that night. The residents of present day, Weld County and long long have a good heritage. And there are unsung heroes of yesteryear have left a legacy of bravery, kindness and the American spirit. While they may not be alive today, may their courage remain a testimony to what makes America America and that is for people made their spirit live on within their families and communities. inspiring all of us to be brave, courageous, full of love and compassion for one another. Thank you for allowing me to come and publicly give a very long overdue things and tribute to Longmont. I would like to suggest in the future. And I’d be willing to help proclamation of Thanksgiving to all of your unsung heroes fire departments, police sheriff’s departments, to be issued on November 1. And also in memory of the 44th persons killed on flight 629 and forever turn such an evil tragic travesty into a day to honor Community Heroes both past and present.
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Hello, I’m Julie O’Brien. Mayor councilman.
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Okay, once you wanted to go, thank you so much. This issue is regarding the public safety at Central Elementary School. Pardon me. We live across the street from Central Elementary and have been watching the quick moving traffic and also noticed some nonsensical traffic signage at the school. Central Elementary is surrounded by four streets, which creates a unique hazard in itself. Signage is apparent, although it’s quite misleading on two sides of the school, and relatively absent on the other two sides of the school. Our main issue would be the confusing signage on Gay Street, and also on Fifth Street. Fifth Avenue. These signs are now announced flashing school speed zones, while directly completely directly across the street signage is the end of school zone. We have elementary school students and their parents and little siblings with them in hand. It’s confusing this video pitchers to see it
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right now without actually going and circling the school and actually seeing what’s going on. But I think by this glance, you might be able to
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understand what we are addressing here of school starts August 17th. And I’m hoping that some of these issues might be addressed prior to the students returning back to school.
Unknown Speaker 1:19:41
And here you have the signage. You have the school here, fifth, bras, fourth and gay. You have a Speedzone here directly across the street is a end of school. This is in between the street on Fifth where the students are crossing over here you have a speed zone on here. This is
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At the end of Speedzone, here you have a end of suit. Speedzone on fourth and gay. This is coming off of third. It’s a flashing light.
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This is on Fifth and a school zone directly across the street from a flashing school zone.
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what do drivers do? What do students do? What do parents do? I’m not sure. Here is the school and
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less than 75 feet is the end of school zone.
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Here’s your flashing school zone. Over here is your end of school zone. And here is the school.
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It appears appears that these signs the end of school were put in between the years of 2007 and 2012.
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This this is I’m sorry, this is fourth, which there’s virtually no
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no signage whatsoever, announcing any type of speed.
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This would take in today
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the end of school zone signs between 2007 and 12. When they’re replaced, they were I think just placed in the wrong location without thought.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:14
So I’m just hoping that these these youngsters that are walking to the school that surrounded by force by for streets, they’re coming in and out of cars. And when you’ve got a flashing light saying to slow down and right across the street, you’re allowed to go
Unknown Speaker 1:21:33
at any speed. Thank you, Julie. I see jimang stood in the back.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:40
There he is raising his hand. Julie, Mr. Angstadt in the back is the one that would probably give you some answers at some point.
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he would be the one. Okay. Very good. Thank you so much. You’re welcome. I’m going to remove Ralph crosswalk grows bald.
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I’m going to defer to
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Okay, thank you and Strider been stung?
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Thank you, striker Ben stun nine
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ft. One was seven tape.
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i We are the stories we tell. And it was really important to hear the Marian and in our story.
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I think the first time ever spoken this room spoke about
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transportation about having a grid bus system and starting to incrementally build up a electrical city late and
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16 years ago about that time, we had a sustainability conference up at Skyline High School one of the best, you know, occasions I’ve ever I’ve ever been aware of.
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Some of you know my history. I didn’t know what history was until I hitchhiked to Alabama and got involved in the Civil Rights Movement. So you might say I learned on the job.
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And the particular thing at that time we were fighting for the right to vote. Now that’s being stolen from us by all kinds of gerrymandering and state legislators and they’re trying to take away the right to vote for the president by giving it to state legislatures which are gerrymandered. And the Supreme Court which we use to honor Holly is decreeing itself to beat the legislature now, because the actual Congress is in gridlock by one party that does not believe in discussion or, or dealing with anything, like abolishing the the function of the Environmental Protection Association. Well, in the environment is our world. If we don’t care of it, take care of it. We have nothing. We don’t exist. That’s what we’re dealing with. And the climate and no swallows and every living thing. That is our responsibility. And you guys I appreciate the roads are better. I can bike. It’s safer now than it was six months ago to get from one place to another. And I appreciate that but let’s not forget
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I responsibility as in the Bible that says stewards of the planet. Let us be stewards of our planet. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:25:10
Thank you Strider of so that ends public invited to be heard. Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to step up?
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Seeing none, I will close a public invited to be heard. I would like to ask the counselors would you mind if I asked David Bailey one question before we
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before we got out of this section of our agenda?
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Miss Mr. Bell?
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I just have one question for you. While we’re on this topic.
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Can you tell me are the engineering designs that are on our website? Are they the final designs for the RSVP final reach? Mayor packing council members? I would really like Jim axon to answer that I’ll give you what my understanding is is the fact that no they are not we still have a lot of work to go through. And I think the attention has been brought to this nesting site is something I think our community really wants us to be aware it was move forward. But as long as I’ve been involved with the RSVP project for the last six years, engineering and environmental services and natural resources work very closely together to try to come up with solutions to do the best to protect people property and our natural environment and oftentimes trying to enhance that this is gonna be one’s gonna be some challenges involved but I think that we have commitment from engineering staff and others that we will look at all those options and be back in front of this body to talk about how we want to proceed forward. Thank you. Thank you. Do we need to take a bio break
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let’s take a five minute break Thank you.
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to gambling money
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Okay, we are back.
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And we are going to read the consent agenda. Don, would you mind reading the items on the consent agenda into the record? Absolutely. Mayor peck
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the ordinances on this agenda will be on second reading on August 9 2022. Item nine a one is ordinance 2022 27. The bill for an ordinance submitting to the registered electors of the city of Longmont, Colorado, at a special municipal election to be held on November 8 2022. And amendment to the city of Longmont Home Rule charter to remove outdated language and allow for modernization of the conduct of city business. Nine a two is ordinance 2022 Dash 28. A bill for an ordinance submitting to the registered electors of this
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City of Longmont, Colorado, at a special municipal election to be held on November 8 2020. To an amendment to the city of Longmont Home Rule charter to allow for prospective vacancies and city elections. Item nine B is ordinance 2022 Dash 29 a bill for an ordinance amending sections 2.0 4.201 through 2.042 point point 214 of the Longmont fair campaign Practices Act. Nine C is ordinance 2022 Dash 30 a bill for an ordinance authorizing the city of Longmont to amend and consent to assignment of the lease for vans brand municipal airport hangar parcel H 18. C.
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Item nine D contains five resolutions authorizing agreements between the city and multiple property owners along 17th Avenue for the purchase of real property for sidewalk improvements. 91 resolution 2022 Dash 113 a resolution of the Lamont City Council authorizing agreements between the city of Longmont and Russell O’Brien for the purchase of real property at 15th 16th 17th Avenue for the 17th Avenue sidewalk improvements project. Resolution 2020 to 114. A resolution of the Longmont City Council authorizing agreements between the city of Longmont and PAL and Jacqueline hustle for the purchase of real property at 15 50/17 Avenue for the 17th Avenue sidewalk improvements project. Resolution 2020 to 115. A resolution of the Longmont City Council authorizing agreements between the city of Longmont and Belk model LLC for the purchase of real property at 17 16/17 Avenue for the 17th Avenue sidewalk improvements project. Resolution 2020 to 116. A resolution of the Lamont City Council authorizing agreements between the city of Longmont, Robert T. rivage and Jennifer Jennifer L. Jeffrey, for the purchase of real property at 18/16 17th Avenue for the 17th Avenue sidewalk improvements project resolution 2020 to 117. A resolution of the Lamont City Council authorizing agreements between the city of Longmont and Long’s peak congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Colorado Inc, for the purchase of real property at 22 18/17 Avenue for the 17th Avenue sidewalk improvements project. Item nine is resolution 2020 to 118. A resolution of Longmont City Council approving an intergovernmental agreement between the city of Longmont and Platte River Power Authority for technical support services Customer Information System resolution nine F resolution 2020 to 118. A resolution of Longmont City Council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city and the state of Colorado for grant funding for aquatics. Nine G resolution 2020 to 120 a resolution of Longmont City Council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city and the state of Colorado for grant funding for childcare operations, stabilization and workforce sustainability. And item nine H is resolution 2020 to 121. A resolution of the Longmont City Council submitting a ballot question to the registered electors of the city of Longmont, Colorado, at a special municipal election to be held November 8 2022. Concerning issuing bonds payable from the city’s storm drainage enterprise revenues to finance storm drainage capital projects. Thank you, Councillor Martin, you have your hand up?
Unknown Speaker 1:37:56
Yes, Mayor Peck, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:37:59
I would like to remove items a one, a two and B from the consent agenda for discussion. Thank you. Are there any other items that
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we need to pull down? Mayor staff would like to pull nine ah my niche.
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Okay. So um, can I have a motion?
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Motion? Do you want to make this motion to read to to approve the Consent Agenda? My Sure. I moved the Consent Agenda minus a one a two B and H Thank you.
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So it’s been Moved by Councillor Martin seconded by Councillor waters to approve the Consent Agenda. All those in favor?
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Do we have a Yeah. We do.
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I vote yes.
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So that passes unanimously. Thank you.
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We do not have any items on Second. Second Reading ordinance on second reading and public hearings on any matters. So we’re gonna go directly to the items removed from the consent agenda and Marsha, Councillor Martin, I’m gonna turn it over to you for the items you polled.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:32
Thank you, Mayor pack. First on a one. I do not have any issues with the substantive changes. But while reading this, I noticed that the words
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council men and
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councilmen were frequently appearing and it seems like while we’re at it, we could amend this section so that
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The words were non gender specific since it’s obvious that our council is non gender specific at this point. And to add to that, I noticed that the mayor said his
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when you refer to the mayor, you it says his catch. Do we have a second here? I’ll second that.
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I think you need to make a motion first, though. Oh, did I move I move that we replace the words Council man, councilmen and his when we’re referring to the mayor or a council member with gender neutral terminology. I’ll second so that’s been Moved by Councillor Martin’s I seconded that. Let’s vote to amend
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to to amend ordinance a 2022 dash 27 with the correct language.
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I don’t know why I’m not saying
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So I favor
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as do I I’m not sure where my voting circles are.
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Yep, I vote for
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Councilman Barton voted in favor. So
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Does have has everyone for that. So that passes unanimously. Thank you
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Councillor Martin? Did he Okay. Thanks, Dallas.
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Councillor Martin, do you want to put you pulled a to 2022 days? Yeah. Do we need to move adoption of a one first because we only have a move. voted to amend it so far.
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Go ahead and make the motion. Yeah. Okay. I’ll move adoption of a one as amended.
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I’ll second that. So it’s been Moved by Councillor Martin seconded by myself to move 2022 Dash? No, I’m sorry. 2022 Dash 27 As amended. All those in favor? Aye. Vote yes.
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So that passes unanimously. Thank you.
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Councillor Martin, do you want to go to
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a to? Yes.
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And when again, with a two but I noticed is, again, I agree with the substance of the blue line changes except there, it looks like we could have to
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make the announcement of a proactive resignation 90 days, it normally no more than 90 days in advance of the election. But then the last day to withdraw the the announcement is 91 days after, which means that your last day of withdrawing is before your last day of moving, shouldn’t it be the 89th day or the day after? Or the day or the 90th day the day of
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I’m just counting on my fingers here. But unless somebody finds a flaw in my logic, I would like to move changing that number from either 92 from 91 to either 90 or 89 at the discretion of the staff.
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I’m not saying do you, Eugene?
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Let me see. Mayor and Council The way this works is there is one day after the deadline to withdraw for which you can then announce Yes, I understand that. But 91 days is actually before 90 days before the election day.
Unknown Speaker 1:44:34
The day after the last day to do it is 89 days before the election. I think Councillor waters would like to weigh in and I would think there is actually no magic to these days. We’re trying to provide a little bit of buffer
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between the date of withdrawal
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and if counsel wants to change that number as well.
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because it’s before the date by which we have to submit the ballot to the clerk. I think it’s fine. Okay. Yeah, I just don’t want it to be negative. That doesn’t make sense.
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Well, I appreciate the work on this, I was the one that brought the concern up,
Unknown Speaker 1:45:17
or brought up the concern. So if I, if I was candidate x here and had announced my intent to withdraw, or to resign effective Election Day, say 100 days prior to the election, this suggests that I’ve got nine days to rethink that. Right and withdraw my resignation. Once I get past the 91st. Day, on day 90. I don’t have the option. I think that’s the intent of this. I think it reads the way it’s intended that except that it reads before the date of the election, not after the announcement is made. Well, if I made my announcement 100 and whatever, whenever I announced the resignation, I can I could withdraw the resignation up to 91 days prior to the ordinance or prior to the election.
Unknown Speaker 1:46:10
After that date, you’re locked in? I definitely I think that’s the intent. I think that’s the way route. Yes, that I that that’s not the point. The point is that you can announce later than you can withdraw, which I might try to help donkey tonicity clerk, I believe the 90 days provides,
Unknown Speaker 1:46:32
it draws the line in the sand. So you must provide the written notice by 90 days, or you cannot prospectively Vacate your seat if you’re running for another seat. The 91st day is exactly as councilmember waters described, provides a little flexibility should you announce your candidacy and then change your mind for whatever reason. If you come up to the 91st day, you could still withdraw that intent to let go of your seat. But once we reach the 90th day, it’s written in stone. If that helps, okay, I’m going to withdraw this and talk to the clerk later because everybody’s missing my point or else I’m nuts. But we don’t need to. It’s not important enough to spend the time here. I’m talking about the point of reference being the election day, not the date of the original resignation, which it is in the language and that means that the numbers are backwards.
Unknown Speaker 1:47:34
But I withdraw it. It’s not. Do you want to move that ordinance then? Yeah, I’m move adoption of of ordinance.
Unknown Speaker 1:47:44
Whatever it is 2022 28 Yeah, thank you. It’s been moved by Councillor mountain seconded by Councillor waters. Let’s vote.
Unknown Speaker 1:47:55
I vote in favor.
Unknown Speaker 1:48:03
And that carries unanimously.
Unknown Speaker 1:48:06
Councillor Martin, you’re up again? You pulled B 2022 Dash 29?
Unknown Speaker 1:48:13
Yes, if I haven’t muted myself, I’m looking for my zoom session. Okay. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 1:48:20
We had a a
Unknown Speaker 1:48:24
and a concern expressed by Dr. waters that some people might wish to use a an address that is not an internet address.
Unknown Speaker 1:48:37
But it’s also not a street address for their mailing address. And
Unknown Speaker 1:48:45
I did some searching around to see how the combination of a ordinary street address and a
Unknown Speaker 1:48:57
post office box
Unknown Speaker 1:48:59
is referred to and the term I came up with is a physical address. So I would like to move that we substitute for street address the word physical address
Unknown Speaker 1:49:13
in that language just to make sure that people who don’t want their
Unknown Speaker 1:49:20
their fears their home address to be in the disclosures can can still satisfy this requirement
Unknown Speaker 1:49:32
so is there a second here?
Unknown Speaker 1:49:36
So that fails for lack of a second
Unknown Speaker 1:49:43
Unknown Speaker 1:49:46
Do you want to I actually don’t want to move adoption. Let somebody else do it. I will move ordinance counselor waters. I’m sorry. I missed that.
Unknown Speaker 1:49:56
Thanks for your pick. I am going to I’m going to propose or
Unknown Speaker 1:50:00
Remove an amendment to Section Five.
Unknown Speaker 1:50:06
Paragraph a 204207, the same section that Councilmember Martin was talking about
Unknown Speaker 1:50:14
to after address ad or PIO box.
Unknown Speaker 1:50:19
So it’ll be the street address or the PIO box of the financial institution used by the committee.
Unknown Speaker 1:50:28
I’ll second that it does has the same effect.
Unknown Speaker 1:50:31
Okay. It’s been moved by Councillor waters and seconded by Councillor Martin, to include in the section on fair campaign Practices Act to include or or a post office box after including
Unknown Speaker 1:50:54
you want to read that? I don’t have a pulled up exactly what it says.
Unknown Speaker 1:51:01
Oh, it would be nice. Number eight here.
Unknown Speaker 1:51:05
Yeah, the way it reads now is and then just the finishing that line and the name and street address of the financial institution by the committee.
Unknown Speaker 1:51:16
It would just be street address or a post office box of the financial institution. Okay, so you’re just adding the or post office box. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 1:51:26
Let’s vote on that. Mayor. point of clarification. Yes. So street addresses used earlier in that paragraph with referring to the person who’s contributed 50. Both
Unknown Speaker 1:51:40
Oh, thank you, Eugene.
Unknown Speaker 1:51:46
Let’s vote on that.
Unknown Speaker 1:51:53
And I vote against that
Unknown Speaker 1:51:58
Unknown Speaker 1:52:08
so that passes with Councillor Martin. Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez, Councillor waters and Councillor Yarborough in favor and Councillor Hidalgo fairing and myself against?
Unknown Speaker 1:52:21
Unknown Speaker 1:52:23
And now we would go to nine h we have a presentation.
Unknown Speaker 1:52:29
Oh, I thought oh, I’m sorry. That was the amendment.
Unknown Speaker 1:52:33
Councillor waters? Would you like to move that ordinance?
Unknown Speaker 1:52:43
I’ll second that. All those in favor? Let’s vote.
Unknown Speaker 1:52:49
I’ll vote in favor.
Unknown Speaker 1:52:53
And then passes unanimously. Thank you. So we have Becky Doyle who is here for the presentation on nine H a resolution of alarm at city council submitting the ballot question on the the font. Yes, good evening, Mayor pack members of council that he Doyle’s strategic integration. We just wanted to affirmatively talk about the change in the dollar amount in that ballot language. When we previously received direction in February about this, we’ve been talking about a $15 million bond. But due to the economic pressures that we’ve experienced around project costs, we think that it would be prudent to make sure that we have those potential inflationary costs to the project covered in our debt authorization. We don’t currently have an updated project estimate. That brings us to that higher amount, but this is a contingency and making sure that we have that full authorization needed to complete the project. Okay, thank you for that. I also would like you to address a couple of things. First of all, to one of our residents comments that this is a new tax, and that we need to be transparent about it. From my interpretation. It is not a new tax. This is a tax we voted on in 2021. And through 2024, is this correct? And we just need now authorization to use those dollars to bond. Mayor Peck there’s
Unknown Speaker 1:54:27
an important distinction between voter authorized tax revenue streams okay and legislatively adopted user rates. And the storm drainage utility is primarily funded by a fee on our utility bills, which is a utility rate which is legislatively adopted by council. So in 2021, Council adopted a three year schedule of increases to the storm drainage rate, which supports debt financing at the level proposed. Thank you for that clarification. My other question is
Unknown Speaker 1:55:00
What what are the consequences of adding ballot language outside of what this bond is proposed to do?
Unknown Speaker 1:55:09
In general, we try to separate the questions about project and project delivery from questions about project finance. In this case, a significant amount of the language that that’s in this ballot language comes really from our bond lawyers. So all that all that reference to taxes and without imposing new taxes, is really about complying with state law, about transparency for, for Tabor reasons. So maintaining clarity about, you know, just the financing question is important, and helps us you know, make decisions about project in a way that is really focused on the project, and about the financing and the way that’s going to be most effective for getting that financing, being able to effectively market the bonds and get the best credit rating possible. So outside of the ballot language for taxation reasons,
Unknown Speaker 1:56:08
what what are the consequences if any of adding the language about the Bank Swallows in this bond, language, Mayor pack the consequences would really be in the
Unknown Speaker 1:56:24
in the marketing of the bonds, so when we go to sell them, and the the assurances that we make at that time to, you know, potential buyers?
Unknown Speaker 1:56:36
Eugene’s nodding, so I think I got that. Pretty Pretty, right? Well, just the little bit, I know about bonds that that we put them out and investors buy these bonds, which is where we get the money to do our project. That’s correct. So
Unknown Speaker 1:56:53
they are investing in what the what the money for the project is, if you have other language in there.
Unknown Speaker 1:57:02
You are you saying that the the risk of not being able to sell those bonds because of the conflicting language? Is that or or potential barriers to successful project completion? Yes. Okay. So if the
Unknown Speaker 1:57:25
Unknown Speaker 1:57:26
when you issue the debt, and you have requirements in terms of whether you do it, and Jim can jump here and correct me if I’m wrong. If the market thinks that there are potential problems, in terms of you’re not able to carry out the project because of those restrictions. And that starts impacting all of the things that Becky just talked about. Because they’re gonna go, Well, what happens if you can’t design it this way, and then you have to move it and it costs more, and you’re not able to fund the increase. All of those things start coming into play. So it makes it a riskier endeavor when you go into the bond market.
Unknown Speaker 1:58:06
Is it normal to add
Unknown Speaker 1:58:11
language in a bond that is different from the actual intent of the bond? Is that does that happen?
Unknown Speaker 1:58:22
I don’t want to I don’t want to negatively impact this bond, because we absolutely need to sell it in order to do RSVP.
Unknown Speaker 1:58:37
So I’m looking at Jim two, because
Unknown Speaker 1:58:40
so so I’ve never seen that type of language and either. I don’t know that I could speculate on the the prevalence.
Unknown Speaker 1:59:06
Mayor to answer your question, I It’s not typical. I’m not we’re not aware of it certainly hasn’t happened here in the past. I think, you know,
Unknown Speaker 1:59:16
this is all just speculation on my part. So what I would say is that that the question, if you
Unknown Speaker 1:59:24
complicate this question a little bit, it might make investors a little bit more wary about it. They may we would probably still be able to sell the bonds it might be at a higher interest rate, because they may not see them as attractive, but they are looking at the ability of the city to pay off the bond. More importantly than they are looking at the project.
Unknown Speaker 1:59:49
Okay, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:59:53
This needs more thought process. It really does.
Unknown Speaker 2:00:00
If in fact we put the language in the bond,
Unknown Speaker 2:00:05
but the bond and the bond passes with that language in, we’re risking not being able to sell the bond and not being able to do our RSP project in a timely manner or
Unknown Speaker 2:00:17
with the amount or at a higher cost, because the interest rate, etc.
Unknown Speaker 2:00:27
And I, I am leery about putting that bond at risk, because we have to have the money to do this project. So,
Unknown Speaker 2:00:40
Unknown Speaker 2:00:42
Mayor, Eugene, may city attorney, I think we could as an option, postpone this matter, till the next regular session, we can consult with our financial advisors and municipal bond attorney and get their expertise on what they think would be the impact of adding this language. I think that would be a great idea to have clearly we’re, this is new language that we’re just hearing now. And we’re not bought experts are experienced in issuing bonds. But we have special counsel and financial advisors that are bond experts. That’s great idea, I am going to move to postpone this bond. I’m sorry, this oops.
Unknown Speaker 2:01:29
We have we have two more people, I just like talking up here. So I ignored them.
Unknown Speaker 2:01:35
Councillor Hidalgo? fairing.
Unknown Speaker 2:01:38
Thank you, Mayor, I would really appreciate if we could have legal counsel with this. But I did write it down the three times that three different people said it. And you know, just to make sure that you have the language it was while preserving the established bank swallow habitat at Rogers Grove that was embedded between and I found it on here while they were talking.
Unknown Speaker 2:02:02
It was in section three, line nine,
Unknown Speaker 2:02:07
page three, without imposing new taxes or increasing existing taxes before the comma. That’s where I heard the recommendation of adding and while preserving the established bank swallow habitat at Rogers grow. So if there’s as you know, as you’re talking with legal,
Unknown Speaker 2:02:25
what kind of language could we put in there that would offer assurances? Because I know if I wasn’t sitting on council and getting all the background information, and this came up as an issue, I probably wouldn’t vote for the blonde. I’ll be honest, and, you know, I, you know, I want to make sure that this also does pass
Unknown Speaker 2:02:46
because we need it. So I feel that passionately about I think there’s a couple of issues in play in this conversation. You have the financing component of this, and then you actually have the engineering component. Gerald, could you speak up?
Unknown Speaker 2:03:08
That better? Yes, thank you. So you have two components in this, you have the financing conversation, and you have the engineering conversation in this. And so
Unknown Speaker 2:03:20
someone asked me the question, well, if we put this in, what would that do to the project?
Unknown Speaker 2:03:26
I think chances are, it would increase the cost of the project
Unknown Speaker 2:03:32
in re in reengineering the design because
Unknown Speaker 2:03:37
you know, it’s not in a place where we own the property. Because when you look at some of those options, it really is centered on that fairgrounds area. And so
Unknown Speaker 2:03:49
just in full transparency, you know, in this time, we can really look at the financials on this to see what is the impact in this.
Unknown Speaker 2:03:58
And what that means in terms of the design. And we can have Josh talk about that. So you have engineering issues on one side, and then you have the financing issues on the other side. And I think that then where the two meet with each other. So if you say we need to issue $20 million in debt, but
Unknown Speaker 2:04:20
another option ends up costing 25 million, then then you have a financial gap. And so we can pull that information together and kind of give you a sense of that. Okay, that would be great. I would further clarify, you know, we have or we always consider, you know, environmental impacts and projects. An additional concern would be that we’re not far enough along in the design process where we have those meaningful alternatives yet to do even the economic analysis of what would the cost of you know,
Unknown Speaker 2:04:50
Project A versus project BB.
Unknown Speaker 2:04:54
So, you know, and that is something where we can use tools that we have, such as the sustain
Unknown Speaker 2:05:00
ability evaluation system to weigh all of the various impacts of potential project alternatives, and have that discussion with counsel about what’s the preferred way to go. Actually, I do have a meeting with David Bell and some of the other folks on this in the SCS was one of the things I was going to bring up. So hopefully, we can have those discussions before the next regular session. So we can bring back all the data, and all the all the ideas, everything, that’s the challenge, this is design. And so when you get into the actual design, that’s actually where you start working through those issues, I would say our intent is always to do the best that we can to respect the environment and not impacted in a negative way. But that really comes as you’re further down the design road and when you start hitting 40 50% design on these projects. Okay. Councillor Martin?
Unknown Speaker 2:06:01
Thank you, Mayor pack, I just wanted to point out and I’m, I think it may be relevant to whether we postpone or not, although I’m not necessarily averse to postponing. But it seems to me that the public has other options for protecting the bank swallow that would not encumber the bond issue. But if they if they used one of these other mechanisms, like a second ballot measure that was put on by petition,
Unknown Speaker 2:06:33
that we could then use the money from the bond issue, but maybe perhaps be forced to seek additional funding to complete the split flow because of the changes. So my point being that this is not the appropriate place for that language, but the language could be put somewhere else. And that would not encumber the city from doing what it needed to do about storm drainage, but could impact the eventual design of the last set of flood mitigations. And I what I would like to do was I have a couple of questions for
Unknown Speaker 2:07:16
David and Jim, probably
Unknown Speaker 2:07:20
about Bank Swallows and the project. And I don’t know whether could we vote first on whether to postpone this and then ask those questions or what it should would that cause the questions to be saved for later?
Unknown Speaker 2:07:36
Um, I think we could probably save them for later if you don’t mind. Let’s let’s decide whether we’re going to postpone this and and do more research on it. And more research on both ends. The okay sign standard as well as the bond language
Unknown Speaker 2:07:53
Erina. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 2:07:56
Thanks for your
Unknown Speaker 2:07:58
remind, remind me remind us of the benefits of this reach, who and what are the benefits? And what are those benefits as a result of the work that’s proposed or Josh got it?
Unknown Speaker 2:08:13
Anyway, Josh, take it.
Unknown Speaker 2:08:19
Good evening, Mayor, Members of Council. Josh Sherman, civil engineer with public works.
Unknown Speaker 2:08:25
Councilmember waters, the benefits are completing this this flood mitigation from sunset to over begins to remove the floodplain that is the Southbank from hoever down to the railroad tracks, so
Unknown Speaker 2:08:43
several 100 acres and several dozen structures including mobile homes, commercial businesses, industrial areas that are located in that in that crowd that are currently located in the 100 year floodplain. So if
Unknown Speaker 2:08:57
the comments some of the comments that have been made tonight, council members and Uncle fairings comments about
Unknown Speaker 2:09:05
the prospects of or the likelihood that people would vote for or against
Unknown Speaker 2:09:11
a ballot question enabling the city to serve as debt right to sell bonds for this project.
Unknown Speaker 2:09:20
What hangs in the balance? I don’t know that. I don’t know that this Bank Swallows are at risk.
Unknown Speaker 2:09:27
But we do have people and their property at risk if we don’t Is that is that the case? Yes, that’s a fair statement. Yeah. So
Unknown Speaker 2:09:37
so there’s a number of interests here that we have to weigh in among those we have had no conversation tonight about the about the who the people in Longmont who would benefit or not, who would be negatively affected by the decisions decision of the community not to pass a bond I think personally, trying to try to solve the problem of banks walls with language in the bond question is
Unknown Speaker 2:10:00
Bad idea. I think we ought to keep the bond question as clean as possible if we need to come back and do a by resolution, some other action based on what you know, more to learn about design that we can always do that. But to complicate the bond question, I think is a mistake. I think we’re if we if we do this, we’re going to send a real clear, clear signal to the people who would benefit from this, they fall somewhere below the bank’s walls. And I’m not trying to dismiss Bank Swallows, I care about the environment as well. But I think that’s a dangerous message to sell. If we care about passing a bond issue.
Unknown Speaker 2:10:36
The last question for me would be, let’s assume it’s going to cost 25. That was I know, that was off the top of your head. But
Unknown Speaker 2:10:43
but but if we if if it doesn’t pass, or we add language that we know is going to increase costs to whatever x is, how likely is that we can service that debt with current rates.
Unknown Speaker 2:11:04
Mayor Pat, Councilmember waters,
Unknown Speaker 2:11:07
we know that rates are designed to service up to $20 million in debt, you know, assuming somewhere near current interest rates, but we would need to do further analysis,
Unknown Speaker 2:11:18
or, you know, potentially unfund Other projects or operating costs in order to service additional debt. So that’s where so now we’re weighing off the values, again, the Bank Swallows against projects we’re not going to do, it’ll be important for me to know what those are, or increasing rates again, without doing less in other areas to service the debt, that are the cost of the project, because of the increased debt we’re going to have to service, which is going to affect everybody, everybody who pays that storm drainage fee. So I just think those are all things that we have to weigh in this. We’ve heard a lot about an interest. I think there are other interests, we need to be equally as concerned about. And that is the people in the costs and who and not just in the floodplain. But everybody who would pay additional right, so
Unknown Speaker 2:12:08
I’d love to see, I’d love to see what the designs are, I’d love to see language that would allow us to dress that but not not confuse the bond question with that. And if whoever wants to vote for or against the bond, they’re going to have to make those decisions, the city will do its best to educate the community. But if we if we lose the bond, if we put on the ballot with this question, and it goes down, because folks organize against it, they’ll do it knowing what the consequences are for the folks who live in the bloodline in the floodplain and what their properties are. Is that Is that fair?
Unknown Speaker 2:12:44
Are Is that accurate? Whether it’s fair or not?
Unknown Speaker 2:12:48
Is it is it accurate that, that if we lose if we we keep this current bond language, and we lose it because there’s organized opposition because we didn’t put language in the bank question about about banks, Wallis,
Unknown Speaker 2:13:03
then we lose it knowing
Unknown Speaker 2:13:06
what the implications are for the for the people in the properties in the floodplain. And and that we still potentially haven’t solved any flood mitigation problems or bank swallow issues. If the data is not approved, we will not be able to proceed with this project, which will keep
Unknown Speaker 2:13:24
the areas that Josh identified in the 100 year floodplain. That is a correct statement. Thanks.
Unknown Speaker 2:13:32
And that was the point I was trying to make, because I’m very nervous about not passing.
Unknown Speaker 2:13:38
However, I don’t think it hurts because this is only frustrating to do a little more research on the language. Has this been done before? And did if someone if some organization, city state put that type of language in a bond? Did it pass? Did it work? So I’m sorry to put this more work on you, Eugene, but you want us to also bring Joshua in to talk about the different alternatives? Yes.
Unknown Speaker 2:14:14
I think that would be great.
Unknown Speaker 2:14:17
So I don’t see anybody else in the queue. I think I’ll make this motion to
Unknown Speaker 2:14:22
amend. No, I’m sorry to postpone our 2022 Dash 121 Until the next regular session, and let our staff do the research needed to see if this extra language that we’re putting in the bond
Unknown Speaker 2:14:41
Unknown Speaker 2:14:45
Okay, so counselor, Hidalgo. fairing seconded that. All those in favor.
Unknown Speaker 2:14:52
I’ll vote for
Unknown Speaker 2:15:09
don’t see her
Unknown Speaker 2:15:13
Oh there she is. Okay. So that passes with a council or waters opposing
Unknown Speaker 2:15:24
so I will also move
Unknown Speaker 2:15:28
Unknown Speaker 2:15:30
20 Our 2022 Dash 121
Unknown Speaker 2:15:36
Oh, we just postponed it. I thought I
Unknown Speaker 2:15:39
I moved to amend it
Unknown Speaker 2:15:41
or I did not
Unknown Speaker 2:15:43
Unknown Speaker 2:15:47
All right now we have one general business item
Unknown Speaker 2:15:51
that is bill that is ordinance 2022 Dash 31. A bill for an ordinance amending chapter 10 dot 20 section 10 20.1 100 of the Longmont municipal code on unreasonable noises prohibited prima facia unreasonable noises.
Unknown Speaker 2:16:27
Mayor Peck city council members is that guarded public safety chief, we have received since I’ve been here, numerous complaints on what we would classify as loud vehicles, mufflers engines and those types of things. And so we were tasked with Dave Kennedy’s here tonight, to give you a presentation on what we believe is a fair but unenforceable ordinance that we’re asking council to consider. And so he’ll discuss some of the things that we did to look across of how this is enforceable. What we can do as far as sound noise and addressing some of the concerns I know that you’re receiving almost on a weekly basis. So I’m gonna bring Dave Kennedy up, and he’s got some information to share with council.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:07
All right, thank you for the introduction, Chief. And thank you Council for the opportunity to be here tonight.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:15
Sorry, PowerPoint would be helpful.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:20
This one correct.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:23
Yep, you got it.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:25
All right. Is it just the arrow to change it will be.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:36
A Super Slide.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:38
Good. Thank you, sir.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:41
All right. So before we get too deep in the weeds on this, I just wanted to clear up some confusion that we’ve heard from the community regarding this ordinance.
Unknown Speaker 2:17:49
We’ve, we’ve heard that there’s been some folks in the community who have been circulating a petition regarding vehicle noise, but it’s not vehicle noise in relation to engines and exhaust systems, which this is okay, so the petitions that have been circulated there are people that are upset with vehicle noise that’s being emitted by stereos, loud stereo systems. And as you can see, and I’m sorry, the the font and I’m not changing slides here.
Unknown Speaker 2:18:23
Alright, so and I apologize that this was a little bit small. But we currently in our in our ordinance already under Section A we have
Unknown Speaker 2:18:32
code that addresses this issue. So I just kind of wanted to pause here and open this up to counsel for any questions because I understand there was some confusion regarding what that is and what we’re here to talk about today.
Unknown Speaker 2:18:48
Marsha, you have your hand up. Can you hear?
Unknown Speaker 2:18:51
Yes, I can. Okay. Um, I have a question. Oh, when are you ready to pause for questions? Not yet, please. Okay, let’s let David do his presentation. I will continue my pick. Thank you. So that the next parts of my presentation will be in regards to enforcement and why public safety staff felt we needed to find a way to increase our enforcement capabilities in regards to vehicle noise.
Unknown Speaker 2:19:15
So to understand why enforcement is currently lacking, I will first talk about our existing local ordinance and then I will talk about previous enforcement efforts that were made under the state statute regarding modification of mufflers. So after that, I will go into our sound meter reading results and how we came to the conclusion that 300 feet should be the distance and then I will end the presentation with Public Safety’s education and enforcement plan. Should this pass.
Unknown Speaker 2:19:46
Alright, looks like we’re good to go now.
Unknown Speaker 2:19:50
So first, our local ordinances. Enforcement of motor vehicle noise currently falls under 1021 10. So 110 is a separate section of the code
Unknown Speaker 2:20:00
are proposed changes under 10 2100. So 110 is where the ordinance regarding maximum sound pressure levels resides. And less and less the need to use a sound meter to determine decibel level compliance. So, our first challenge in all of this is the fact that, first of all, public safety doesn’t have the equipment that we need, we don’t own a sound meter.
Unknown Speaker 2:20:23
If we did, if we do purchase sound meters, this would require specialized training for our officers not only on on how to use the device, but also on the code, which honestly at times can be confusing to remember in the moment, there are six different maximum pressure levels that are defined based on different zonings. And different times a days, it’s all broken down between residential, commercial, industrial, and then times a day, or daytime and nighttime that are defined as being between 7am and 10pm.
Unknown Speaker 2:20:53
So fortunately, code enforcement does own a sound meter. And Dane was gracious enough to lend that to me.
Unknown Speaker 2:21:01
So when we when we first started exploring options, you know, I took the meter with me out on patrol. And what I found is that I was rarely in the position to have that noise meter in hand and ready to read the decibel level when I observed violation. And really, the reason reasoning behind that is that it’s just it’s has a lot to do with just the nature of our business when we’re on patrol. You know, even though we tried to get out of our cars and being in more personal contact with the community, the nature of our businesses, oftentimes, more often than not, we’re behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. So we cannot take sound pressure level meetings, meter readings while driving the vehicle, of course, because we’re inside, especially on a hot day, like today, it’s July, I windows are up in the air conditions, correct, right.
Unknown Speaker 2:21:43
But yet, we still wanted to find a way to solve the problem that we were seeing and what the problem that we’re seeing as as we’re driving around the streets,
Unknown Speaker 2:21:51
you know, for example, I might see a motor vehicle that’s six blocks away from me. And the exhaust that it’s missing, that it’s emitting is just so egregious ly loud that I can hear it with my windows rolled up in the air conditioning blasting.
Unknown Speaker 2:22:05
So that was kind of what we set forth to solve was right there. So how can we take the sound meter out of the equation and really kind of became the question, because we felt that if we could do that officers are more more likely going to be able to take enforcement action when they see that egregiously loud vehicle.
Unknown Speaker 2:22:25
Let’s talk a little bit about the state statute.
Unknown Speaker 2:22:28
So we did have previous enforcement efforts under the state statute. I tried my best to remember the year that we did this, but I was I can remember is that is quite some time ago. And what we found is that
Unknown Speaker 2:22:43
this statute as well as well, just wasn’t effective. So this this state statute specifically addresses mufflers not originally installed on vehicles. Basically, what what the statute says is that you’re not able to put a new muffler on a vehicle that somehow amplifies or increases the noise beyond the factory original model, or affect your factory regional settings, I’m sorry.
Unknown Speaker 2:23:05
The first challenge we found with this ordinance, first of all, is that most officers simply just don’t possess the mechanical skills necessarily necessary to determine if a muffler on a vehicle on a is factory or modified. You know, honestly, I’m not a gear guy. I’m not a gearhead, I, I can’t just look at the back of the vehicle and determine whether or not that’s that’s a new muffler came off the factory looking that way.
Unknown Speaker 2:23:27
Second challenge is, and we do, we do have some officers who do possess those skills. I’m not many, but in order for those officers who do possess those mechanical skills, what we found with those previous enforcement efforts is those officers were literally needing to crawl under vehicles in order to gain evidence, they have an incident that’s needed to prove a violation of the statute. The reason being is that you’re not able to view the serial number, the make and model number of a muffler from just looking at the rear of the vehicle, you have to actually get up underneath there and take a look at it. And we were looking for other evidence of things like new, you know, his installation being fresh 20 marks and welds and things of that nature. So
Unknown Speaker 2:24:08
the conclusion public safety came to you at that time is that we were we were not going to recommend that officers continue risking their safety by crawling underneath motor vehicles for something that, you know, honestly, at the end of the day, this is a traffic infraction. So we got to we got to weigh the seriousness of the offense versus the safety risk, and we just, it just wasn’t there. The third challenge after that previous enforcement campaign two that we ran into, and I remember I remember when the conversation changed with people when we were pulling them over, is that initially,
Unknown Speaker 2:24:38
we were getting some admissions from from the folks that we were stopping that they had modified their mufflers, but this community of people who were not willing to comply who aren’t willing to bring their vehicles back into into thresholds that are that are law abiding, figured out pretty quickly that all they had to do is tell law enforcement that oh, that’s the original muffler or that’s the way I bought it from the dealer. You know, there was there were all these
Unknown Speaker 2:25:00
Unknown Speaker 2:25:01
them not being the ones that modified it unless you kind of took away our probable cause for a criminal case, I’m really the only thing we’re left with as far as enforcement of this statute would be somebody to be able to, you know, just be honest and give a full admission of wrongdoing, which was quite honestly rare.
Unknown Speaker 2:25:19
So, between the two things that we have the two tools we had, we didn’t have a lot. And that’s why enforcement was like.
Unknown Speaker 2:25:27
So when we look at the existing existing language, once again, for our an insight we have, you can see in Sections A through D, that 25 foot distances is something that’s commonly throughout the code for all these different types of noisy events that you can see up here on the screen, I’m not going to go through each one specifically.
Unknown Speaker 2:25:47
So when we first started down this road, we started and I’ll be honest with you, we started with 25 feet. But after much discussion, we all came to the conclusion that does SST close of a distance when we’re talking about vehicle noise. And so when we first tabletop, this, this discussion, you know, and we came up with a hypothesis. And that’s really what it was, it was a hypothesis at the time of what would be a reasonable distance, and we came up with 150 feet. So that was the first distance that we had was that 150, when we first went out on the town, and started taking those noise measurement measurements around town.
Unknown Speaker 2:26:24
But what we found out is that initial hypothesis of 150 feet was wrong. Because at 150, we’re still seeing some pretty significant bikes and the noise meters wouldn’t when standing at that distance from the roadways. But when we back that meter up to 300 feet is when we started seeing that the meter for the most part was just starting to flatline. In other words, we were at the point where we were starting to get into the ambient noise level of the neighborhood. And
Unknown Speaker 2:26:51
to kind of to get further into this too, and not to get too too far deep into physics and science. But you know, the only way to truly find out if your your measurements and your hypothesis are correct or incorrect, is to kind of look towards science, right. So first of all, let me let me talk a little bit about the initial noise meter readings. So you can see that we needed a baseline measurement near the roadway. So we started at 10 feet just because 10 feets the safe distances to and from roadway.
Unknown Speaker 2:27:23
And what we found that we were getting noise measurements of anywhere between 75 and 85 db. So on average, I would say that the average was closer to 75 to 80 DB, that 85 DB was
Unknown Speaker 2:27:37
along the cam Pratt extension,
Unknown Speaker 2:27:40
temperate Boulevard extension where the concrete roadway is, you know, its concrete speeds are higher. And so that was the highest measurement we were able to use. And so, so we stuck with it, right, it’s the highest one we could find.
Unknown Speaker 2:27:55
And we didn’t just do measurements there just so everybody’s clear on where we didn’t take measurements around town. So we started with the three major highways in town.
Unknown Speaker 2:28:04
And we also included Overstreet. The reasoning behind this is that these roadways are capable for producing the most noise because they have higher speeds and heavier volume. So.
Unknown Speaker 2:28:18
So once again, back to testing that, testing our findings, testing that hypothesis on the science of sound.
Unknown Speaker 2:28:26
We learned about the inverse square law, as you can see there on the screen what that what that means briefly, is bullet point number three, and that is the fact that sound decreases exponentially every time it hits doubles, decreases six dB. So in order to understand dBs, and if somebody would have told me, you know, five months ago that 75 DB 85 DB, that means nothing for me. So to help counsel kind of visualize what what is 75 DB, so 75 DB is not is not a noise that is really loud. But it’s a noise that you would have to raise your voice slightly to rate to have a conversation with somebody. So imagine yourself standing next to maybe just somebody playing like a grand piano, and how loud you might need to speak next to that person playing the piano. So that’s, that’s about 75 db. So at 85 DB, is, it’s actually a tenfold increase significantly louder. So it’s more along the lines of like a gas powered leaf floor. You know, we’ve all heard those obnoxiously loud things, right, usually when you’re trying to sleep. And
Unknown Speaker 2:29:34
you know, 85 DB is not only so loud, that you’re probably gonna have to yell over it to have a conversation. But if you if you have prolonged exposure to 85 DB, it’s actually gonna cause hearing loss. So it’s pretty loud.
Unknown Speaker 2:29:47
But applying that, you know, very loud noise at 85 dB at 10 feet. When you do the math on the inverse square law, and I didn’t include the specific math equation here for you
Unknown Speaker 2:30:00
But it comes out to 55 DB or 300 feet. And you can see there at 150 foot, we were at 61 and a half dB, which was why we were seeing those spikes in the noise meter. And that’s why our 150 feet initial thought was wrong.
Unknown Speaker 2:30:18
So all that said to say that,
Unknown Speaker 2:30:21
at 300 feet, we’re getting down into the daytime level for a residential neighborhood which is set forth in code is an existing code is 55 DB.
Unknown Speaker 2:30:34
One more thing to I want to mention regarding decibel levels, because we have had some comments regarding this already TOS that some people have asked so so how loud in the United States is a vehicle allowed to be when it comes off the manufacturing line? So doing some online research, what I found is that
Unknown Speaker 2:30:51
are per federal guidelines and EPA regulations, a vehicle is not allowed to be any louder than 80 db. So add V is less than 85. We’re already plugging into this equation.
Unknown Speaker 2:31:04
And by the way, the the 80 DB that’s not just for vehicles.
Unknown Speaker 2:31:09
That includes cars, pickup trucks, and yes, even Harley Davidson motorcycles and even the Tesla. So every manufacturer has to comply with that add V so
Unknown Speaker 2:31:20
so we’ve heard some comments from the motorcycling community with concerns regarding their loud pipes, you know that you’ve heard the model before loud pipes save lives. And that is true. But if they’re if they’re motorcyclists coming off the Harley Davidson production line at 80 DB, it’s never gonna violate what we’re proposing here because it’s always going to be below the daytime residential neighborhood 55 DB level based on our measurements.
Unknown Speaker 2:31:48
So just real quick to an added bonus that we found today, and this is more for our staff is that 300 foots just an easy to remember, distance, it’s a length of a football field, right 100 yards is 300 feet. So we can all visualize conceptually visualize, visualize in our heads what a football field might be. And that’s gonna help just the average patrol officer when they are out on patrol they’re going to be asking themselves is that potential violation, I just observed more than football fields length away from me. And that will help them in their decision whether or not they should stop that vehicle or not.
Unknown Speaker 2:32:22
So lastly, I just want to touch real quick on our education and enforcement plan. So should this ordinance pass?
Unknown Speaker 2:32:28
We will work with our long my communications team on an education campaign utilizing a wide variety of different social media platforms and outreach efforts to reach our community. And we also do plan that before we start issuing citations, we’re going to incorporate a period of time in which warnings will be given.
Unknown Speaker 2:32:48
So this does conclude my PowerPoint. I am open to any questions council members may have of me or chief artists at this time. Councilmember Martin.
Unknown Speaker 2:33:00
Thank you, Mayor pack. Yes, I have a question. First of all, I want to say that this ordinance is really clever. It’s very well thought out. I love the math. I love the thinking in terms of the way it’s it’s going to be perceived and enforced by officers patrolling in automobiles, everything about it is just right for long lines needs except for one thing. And that is in fact, the understanding of car stereos versus
Unknown Speaker 2:33:37
amp amplification equipment in houses and businesses. Because the amplification equipment in houses and businesses is stationary in the existing ordinance about measurable at 25 feet is fine for that. However,
Unknown Speaker 2:33:57
a stereo in a an automobile on the street is more like a muffler than it is a stereo in a house in terms of the level of disruption it can create when you’ve got speakers popping in a car rolling down the street. So I would like to move that we amend this to add
Unknown Speaker 2:34:26
stereos as one of the
Unknown Speaker 2:34:30
car stereos as one of the list sources of vehicle noise. You’ve got engine noise in there, you’ve got exhaust system noise in there. Just put sound systems in there and it’ll be perfect and the same 300 feet will apply and it doesn’t have any effect it all in on the existing ordinance about stationary amplified noise. So that’s I think that would satisfy Mr. Johnson and his petitioners with
Unknown Speaker 2:35:00
is out detracting from the ordinance in any other way
Unknown Speaker 2:35:08
nobody cares, okay. Okay, that’s been Moved by Councillor Martin seconded by Councillor Hidalgo fairing to add stereo noise to this ordinates.
Unknown Speaker 2:35:22
At Councillor waters,
Unknown Speaker 2:35:26
thanks for your back, David, just react to that
Unknown Speaker 2:35:30
from an enforcement perspective.
Unknown Speaker 2:35:33
So under Section A of 10 2100, we currently have any type of amplified noise. Basically, it’s a blanket section of the statute. So it covers all different situations, not just vehicles. Councilmember Martin, you know, mentioned houses and things of that nature being a problem.
Unknown Speaker 2:35:57
We can certainly go that route, I guess it’s more Council’s direction on do we modify a
Unknown Speaker 2:36:02
and put it there? Or do we include it as somehow needing to be increased out to a distance of 300 feet because that’s essentially what we’re doing? We’re moving it from 25 words currently covered in subsection A. And if we write it into E is for 300 feet.
Unknown Speaker 2:36:21
If I could, if I could clarify a thank you leave a the way it is because that’s a stationary source of amplified noise. And you also add vehicle stereos as a source of vehicle noise in IE.
Unknown Speaker 2:36:41
Well, my real question, my concern is about enforcement. And, and I’m comfortable with whatever we can enforce and prosecute. So at some point in time, it’ll be helpful to hear from Eugene,
Unknown Speaker 2:36:58
how many noise ordinances we expect there to be greater enforcement here. How many Nords noise violations do we prosecute now? Or have we prosecuted in the last year? How many more might we because of this? And what are we not going to? What’s going to drop off the list for prosecutors if we’re going to prosecute more noise ordinances? So first about enforcement, then Eugene, if you could just speak to, to the prosecute the judicial side of this would be helpful.
Unknown Speaker 2:37:27
So we did meet with our legal team regarding this language that was written in and as well as our city prosecutor, Mr. Rangel. And so we did work with our legal team on this and made sure that, you know, we weren’t
Unknown Speaker 2:37:40
where we needed to be for enforcement on this.
Unknown Speaker 2:37:46
Yes, what with what you were seeing on the initial PowerPoint? That’s correct.
Unknown Speaker 2:37:53
Councilmember Martin’s motion?
Unknown Speaker 2:37:57
I can’t hear you there, please.
Unknown Speaker 2:38:01
Okay. I think the question is councilmember Martin’s motion that probably hasn’t been vetted through legal staff.
Unknown Speaker 2:38:12
Unknown Speaker 2:38:15
That’s what I was asking. That is correct. Yeah. Sorry. For the confusion, Councilmember water.
Unknown Speaker 2:38:25
Mayor and Council, you know, I’m just thinking stereo is amplified sound. And so it seems like we’d have two standards.
Unknown Speaker 2:38:37
I think that
Unknown Speaker 2:38:39
the current amplified sound
Unknown Speaker 2:38:44
provision is not just stationary. I mean, I don’t see in the ordinance where that
Unknown Speaker 2:38:51
talks about it being stationary, it just
Unknown Speaker 2:38:55
I’d see you Marcia speaks to source of the said sound or within a private residence.
Unknown Speaker 2:39:03
And then in terms of prosecution, I have not talked a lot about how many, or what challenges there are
Unknown Speaker 2:39:11
for prosecuting these types of violations.
Unknown Speaker 2:39:16
You know, David maybe helped me, it seems like you get a noise complaint, you show up, you tell him to turn it down, and they turn it down? For the most part, that’s correct. Yep. And that it doesn’t get to the stage of actually ticketing somebody but I can follow up with Rod on that and have that information. This is general business items. So not first reading. We’re taking input. Well, we’ll you know, huddle up afterwards and come back with things that we think will address counsels concerns.
Unknown Speaker 2:39:50
Hello, sir Yarbro
Unknown Speaker 2:40:04
is she speaking? Okay, there we go. That was loud. Thank you, Mayor Peck, I just have a question about
Unknown Speaker 2:40:13
what, what, what, what forms? Or what ways? Are you thinking about educating the community about the 300 feet? And I know you have mentioned
Unknown Speaker 2:40:26
about educating? So in what ways are you planning on educating the community? And
Unknown Speaker 2:40:33
because even if we did, you know, we are, if we, you know, approved this, I do want to make sure that they have a clear understanding, because it just seemed like a lot of times, the community really don’t know,
Unknown Speaker 2:40:46
what the law is about, about that, you know, and this is something that, you know, we honestly lean hard on our marketing team for, you know, they really are the experts when it comes to social media platforms. And, you know, some thoughts that we some discussions we’ve already had regarding this, too, is that, what are some art alternative locations to right where, say, you don’t want to get your vehicle into compliance, because you like to street race, for example. So part of the education campaign can include, Okay, where can you legally do this? So places like Bandimere, Speedway, you know, they have public racing nights where you can just show up in your car and race all you want be as loud as you want, right? So it’s offering alternative solutions to people who do want to modify vehicles and make them fast, you know, we understand that’s, you know, that’s, that’s a hobby, that’s a sport for a lot of people. So we also want to give them the,
Unknown Speaker 2:41:38
you know, some local venues to go ahead and be able to still practice that, but do it legally, because we’ve seen quite a few, you know, incidents of illegal street racing recently, not just in the city limits, but in the outskirts of the city surrounding us. So
Unknown Speaker 2:41:53
I, you know, I think and this is, it’s obviously an overgeneralization. But I think for the most part, we’re dealing with a younger crowd here. And that’s why I really need to lean on this marketing team for that social media platform. You know, I’m old, so I like to use Facebook and people call me a boomer, you know, that are my, my 16 year old age.
Unknown Speaker 2:42:11
You know, we need to, we need to put the information where people of that generation are going to see it and read it, and be able to get educated, educated, like you said, we need to start looking at other platforms like snap, and you know, things, things of that nature. So, yeah, I think that’s a great idea. I was just wondering, how are we going to reach that part of the community. And I also think, if there’s some kind of way we can let the car like AutoZone, and, you know, all those other places where they sell out our parks, right?
Unknown Speaker 2:42:44
We have to think outside the box. And there may be also with cars sitting in, in parks in the parking lot, you know, what they’re showing off the cars, and things like that. So I just wanted to know, how, how are we getting the message across to our community, and especially our younger community, who are not on Facebook? So
Unknown Speaker 2:43:04
I just want to make sure, thank you, thank you for the feedback on. So you know, snap has actually been an issue we kind of struggle with too, because it doesn’t save it
Unknown Speaker 2:43:14
creates other issues for us from a governmental standpoint. But I think what we’re really finding is when you when you’re really communicating, you know, it was Instagram now it’s snap. And so really those two platforms and how we can get into those, I think it’s autumn, auto parts stores, automotive locations, you know, where folks go to get some of this? I mean, you’ve got to try to get it every location you possibly can.
Unknown Speaker 2:43:43
Unknown Speaker 2:43:46
Oh, thank you, Mayor Peck.
Unknown Speaker 2:43:49
I think we’ve Well, first of all, do we not have a motion on the floor?
Unknown Speaker 2:43:55
I would just like to say once again, that that.
Unknown Speaker 2:44:02
A The point is whether an officer can pull over a car whose stereo I mean, I just had this experience last month. So I was pulled up next to a car with my air conditioner on and my windows up. And about three blocks away. I started having seriously the side panels of my car were vibrating on the bass beat from the stereo of this car and when I pulled up next to him, I could tell what car it was. And to me that is the exact same violation that Mr. Johnson is talking about. And it is just as egregious a noise violation that is detected by officers in exactly the same way
Unknown Speaker 2:44:55
as a modified exhaust system. And that’s my reason for
Unknown Speaker 2:45:00
We’re adding that to item II on engine noise.
Unknown Speaker 2:45:05
Because it’s It’s completely different from a stationary source of amplified sound.
Unknown Speaker 2:45:12
And much more like a modified exhaust system, if we need to tweak the language so that it’s not taking the bowl, he just has to turn this volume down on his stereo. That’s fine. But it should be, you know, something that an officer can do can enforce and if somebody refused it, then they when they shouldn’t get a ticket.
Unknown Speaker 2:45:39
So we have a motion on the floor. Let’s vote. It is to add stereo noise to
Unknown Speaker 2:45:48
section was it Section A, II? II, Section D?
Unknown Speaker 2:45:53
Unknown Speaker 2:46:00
We’re not voting on that yet.
Unknown Speaker 2:46:16
Wait a minute. I couldn’t hear any of that.
Unknown Speaker 2:46:23
Unknown Speaker 2:46:28
So that carries with Mayor Pro Tem, Rod reconsent. Opposition.
Unknown Speaker 2:46:35
So I do have a question.
Unknown Speaker 2:46:38
It’s no public invited me heard yet. Brian. I’m sorry. We’re discussing it at this point.
Unknown Speaker 2:46:44
So my question and it does have to deal with the 300 feet.
Unknown Speaker 2:46:49
way when you are going downtown, in a that is that is less than 300 feet, for the stores for the restaurants when you are in a residential neighborhood that is less than 300 feet? How do we deal with that?
Unknown Speaker 2:47:08
That that is really the crux of this whole conversation, I think.
Unknown Speaker 2:47:13
And I think it’s not just this section, um, that we’re proposing to add. So one interesting thing about 10 2100 is when you look at the the initial data or the wording prior to the subsections, is that
Unknown Speaker 2:47:28
this does this ordinance require requires a person and I think, Chief artists has a here for me. So it requires a person of ordinary sensitivity, significant annoyance or irritation. So that’s part of the case. So it’s not just law enforcement that sometimes, you know, depending on what, what the case facts are, but sometimes it can be me, contacting the complainant. And the standard of proof in court is going to be that my complainant is a person of reasonable sensitivities. Right. And in this case of downtown, maybe that would be somebody who was inside of a restaurant, you know, dining at the time, right? We could use that person as a witness to the case to say that, you know, it’s not just covered under any other section, but
Unknown Speaker 2:48:18
we’re gonna bring that person now into court to, and it’s going to be put to litmus test. Right, you know, the judge is going to have to decide if that person’s complaint was reasonable or unreasonable. That’s going to be part of it. But I think if you have that, in addition to law enforcement,
Unknown Speaker 2:48:32
seeing evidence of a crime, then I think it’s just more to add to it. I hope that answered your question, Mayor Peck. Yeah, but I can see that being thrown out
Unknown Speaker 2:48:43
very easily. And it also makes the complaintant have to identify the car, first of all, and
Unknown Speaker 2:48:53
in these all, they all, they all present themselves in so many different ways. You know, I’ve I’ve had complaints
Unknown Speaker 2:49:00
where it’s more a neighbor to neighbor complaint, right, and one neighbor is complaining that somebody starts their very loud exhaust vehicle up every morning at five in the morning on their way to work, for example. So that could be another just example of what we see in law enforcement that we may end up using some other neighbors to maybe we start asking the neighbor across the street, does this bother you? Because that’s the person who never called us to begin with, right? So we do get creative when it comes to not just law enforcement being the ones taking these case forward. But also being like in councilmember Martin’s example.
Unknown Speaker 2:49:35
I think a person of ordinary reasonable sensitivities if they were on the jury, and hearing the facts of the case that Councilmember Martin presented regarding being in her vehicle with the windows up in the air conditioning on and the noise still blaring inside of her vehicle, that’s an intrusion into her space and it’s an intrusion into into her quiet enjoyment of her of her personal space. And I think that the judgment
Unknown Speaker 2:50:00
Most likely roll in favor of that.
Unknown Speaker 2:50:03
Unknown Speaker 2:50:05
Are there any other comments?
Unknown Speaker 2:50:08
Unknown Speaker 2:50:10
Officer Kennedy. I think that was a good presentation. Thank you, Mayor council. So this, I mean, so this is obviously zero reading
Unknown Speaker 2:50:20
a decision on what to add to it. I’m assuming you all want us to bring this back for first reading?
Unknown Speaker 2:50:32
I don’t know. What do you think?
Unknown Speaker 2:50:37
Comments? Do we want to come back first reading Councillor waters?
Unknown Speaker 2:50:43
I be, I’m fine with bringing it back. I just want to know that we’re not passing another ordinance that we’re not going to enforce or prosecute that. So when we get there? You know, for me, that’s the that’s the question. I do think I’ve had a concern. Part of it goes back to Mr. Johnson’s concerns with
Unknown Speaker 2:51:04
Dutch Bros when they moved in, that we that you look at that ordinance and what we’re doing with it. And we’re just not enforcing it. So you know why. So if this makes it more enforceable, I’m done with that. Because I think then I want to know, we’re going to enforce it. We’re going to, and on the judicial side, we’re going to prosecute,
Unknown Speaker 2:51:23
I don’t think it addresses the problem that was brought up.
Unknown Speaker 2:51:27
That is my concern, that
Unknown Speaker 2:51:31
it’s not what we discussed in executive sessions.
Unknown Speaker 2:51:36
I just don’t think it’s going to go anywhere. Even if you go to court. It’s putting too much emphasis on what the individual resident has to do to stop this rather than
Unknown Speaker 2:51:49
all of the noise on downtown to the downtown section.
Unknown Speaker 2:51:55
It’s, I don’t know.
Unknown Speaker 2:51:58
I’m not convinced it will, it’ll make any difference. So I think part of this,
Unknown Speaker 2:52:04
I’m gonna need some help on this one, I think part of it does a couple of things. I think it makes it easier to enforce because the officers not dependent on decibel level readings.
Unknown Speaker 2:52:17
And now, that’s one piece.
Unknown Speaker 2:52:22
The other piece, I think in terms of what we talked about when we talked about fireworks and other things, whether the officer sees it, and they’re not responding to another call or something else that obviously is always going to impact when and what they can enforce based on whatever’s happening at that point in time and the severity of the calls.
Unknown Speaker 2:52:45
I think that was part of what they tried to achieve in this. I think we do have some concerns. That’s what we were talking about here on the 25 300 foot because I think
Unknown Speaker 2:52:56
that actually may have the opposite effect of what we were trying to achieve on this one. And so I think we need to talk about that. I think it may make it harder for us to enforce by going out to 300 versus keeping in at 25. And so we need to figure that out, too. But
Unknown Speaker 2:53:16
we were just trying to distill what we heard and figure out are we achieving what we want what you all want to achieve.
Unknown Speaker 2:53:26
Unknown Speaker 2:53:30
You’re on mute? Your I’m
Unknown Speaker 2:53:34
sorry, thank you, Mr. Peck. I have a relevant story, which is that I had a long meeting. And I thank them for your patience with with Chief artists. And now I understand chief Sanur.
Unknown Speaker 2:53:49
Unknown Speaker 2:53:51
it was talking about this ordinance because what I was trying to do was say what are we going to do about street racing?
Unknown Speaker 2:53:59
I have, you know, several streets in in my ward, where, you know, the people were complaining, I haven’t heard any this summer but last summer. People were really, really disrupted by street racing and modified exhaust systems. And
Unknown Speaker 2:54:23
the force the people on the force were really excited about this ordinance because what it meant was that
Unknown Speaker 2:54:33
that a patrol officer could enforce
Unknown Speaker 2:54:39
a modified exhaust system, just the way they could speeding or anything else without instrumentation just because, you know, you could you or you know, an improper lane change just because an officer on patrol could hear it and know that it was in violation without using any instruments and
Unknown Speaker 2:55:00
They really felt that it was going to make them able to do a good job of enforcing violations that were hard to detect and hard to prove under the existing ordinance. And so, you know, their enthusiasm and their understanding of what they would do with this ordinance was was is the reason that I am in favor of it.
Unknown Speaker 2:55:24
That’s all thanks. Okay. So counselor Martin’s in favor of bringing this back on first ordinance. Can I hear from the rest of you, please?
Unknown Speaker 2:55:35
Do you want to bring it back?
Unknown Speaker 2:55:44
Thank you, Mara, Pakka, I’m skeptical that this would really have a measurable effect.
Unknown Speaker 2:55:53
I just don’t see the enforceability being that strong. But I’m not the expert in that matter. And, you know, I’ll take the word of our public safety department that they feel that this is enforceable. I think that the questions raised by councilmember waters are very much akin to my own. I think that we’ve passed enough ordinances that I’m not seeing enforced regularly for a variety of reasons. And so I don’t want to add to that list, but I’m happy to bring this back for debate. And also, you know, ideally, some further information
Unknown Speaker 2:56:29
to clarify some of the concerns raised.
Unknown Speaker 2:56:35
So it looks like you have your direction,
Unknown Speaker 2:56:39
I’m still I’m still concerned about
Unknown Speaker 2:56:43
the downtown, it’s impossible to eat outside, it is in 300 feet is not, and to have the person sitting
Unknown Speaker 2:56:55
at the table having to
Unknown Speaker 2:56:59
having to be the one that calls in has to go to court, I mean, just want to eat dinner.
Unknown Speaker 2:57:08
We need to we need to discuss that. How do we do that? How do we enforce it? Is it signage? Is it so I would like to discuss that part of it further?
Unknown Speaker 2:57:22
So if that’s if that’s all we can go on to the next thing that is on the agenda? Do you have direction?
Unknown Speaker 2:57:33
A counselor a dog a fairing?
Unknown Speaker 2:57:38
So then, just kind of I’m trying to process this as well. But really, it sounds like we’re not ready for first reading we need to have another
Unknown Speaker 2:57:50
Unknown Speaker 2:57:53
general business on this topic.
Unknown Speaker 2:57:59
Councillor waters? Did you want to bring him back on frustrating?
Unknown Speaker 2:58:06
Unknown Speaker 2:58:08
if if it doesn’t come back on first reading, if we were gonna bring this back as a as a general business item, then I think the conversation ought to be we are what we ought to do is be real clear on what problems we’re trying to solve. And what are the best ways to solve them?
Unknown Speaker 2:58:23
Because I appreciate the work that that officer Kennedy and the rest of public safety did. But I’m not certain getting into the details of the math, which in this site, which is all fascinating. The more fundamental question is,
Unknown Speaker 2:58:38
or, or understanding is that we have problems in a number of areas from Main Street, to what what Mr. Johnston has experienced to what residents of Ward one have experienced with the Ford dealership and their voice activated security system. All different, right? That all probably need something that’s tailored to that. So if we’re gonna bring it back that way, I’d like to say Could we just frame it a little bit differently, rather than talking about ordinance language talking about problems and solutions, and to the degree that there’s an ordinance change that’s required? Let’s talk about what that would be, you know, to get back to solving whatever we’re addressing more effectively. The problem is, is the current ordinance doesn’t do it. And I, you know, I don’t want to put our I don’t want to put residents who are or our public safety folks or police officers, or code enforcement in positions to have unenforceable ordinances either. And so maybe that may be as if it is a general business discussion. Let’s start with you know, clarify clarifying the problem and what are the all the options for solving noise as it continues to get worse in the community, so you’re more in favor of bringing it back again on a general business item to discuss instead of an ordinance?
Unknown Speaker 2:59:53
The ordinance language is a more basic frame. What’s the problem
Unknown Speaker 2:59:59
Unknown Speaker 3:00:00
Is there an ordinance changes
Unknown Speaker 3:00:02
rather than starting with an ordinance and hoping that result?
Unknown Speaker 3:00:06
Unknown Speaker 3:00:09
Unknown Speaker 3:00:11
counselor Yarborough, you agree but on which part as a bring it back at general business or on frustrating?
Unknown Speaker 3:00:19
Unknown Speaker 3:00:22
More discussion needed?
Unknown Speaker 3:00:25
Would it help if counselors emailed you with their specific? Why don’t we do that? Let’s all just email do us, me, Harold, David. David and
Unknown Speaker 3:00:40
Unknown Speaker 3:00:42
Harold out of it.
Unknown Speaker 3:00:45
I got that part.
Unknown Speaker 3:00:47
So okay, that’s the direction. Email Harold, Jeff and Zach on.
Unknown Speaker 3:00:55
Oh, I just can’t not email you.
Unknown Speaker 3:01:00
David, Zack, and Jeff, with your recommendations or concerns or comments.
Unknown Speaker 3:01:09
Thank you very much.
Unknown Speaker 3:01:12
All right. We’re on to the next general business item, which is a joint meeting with historic preservation commission to discuss policy issues.
Unknown Speaker 3:01:21
Oh, that shouldn’t be on there.
Unknown Speaker 3:01:24
It’s on mine. Oh, there it is on mine. Oh.
Unknown Speaker 3:01:33
actually happened to me a while back where for some reason, I was on an online version. And it didn’t clear out because I had a moment when I thought something was on August 9. That’s why she’s public
Unknown Speaker 3:01:55
it’s the witching hour.
Unknown Speaker 3:01:58
Thank you. Yes. So we’re on final call public invited to be heard.
Unknown Speaker 3:02:04
Unknown Speaker 3:02:14
Right name and address please.
Unknown Speaker 3:02:18
Brian Johnston nine to six Kaufman,
Unknown Speaker 3:02:22
Councilwoman Martin, I appreciate your support, you’ve been one of the best people you’ve you’ve, you’ve done a lot in helping toward this noise abatement issue.
Unknown Speaker 3:02:30
But let’s not put the car stereo as part of this new language and II.
Unknown Speaker 3:02:36
Expanding the allowable distance from 25 to 300. Feet was not the solution I’m looking for 12 100% increase is not what what me and the 25 business owners from downtown and increase the allotment is not what we were looking for. If it falls under a 25 foot rule, as Eugene says, great. If need be, let’s do an F and make it its own. But let’s not do it at let’s not expand it to 300 feet. That’s a long distance to have to win. I live 150 feet off Main Street.
Unknown Speaker 3:03:12
These cars go by at peak times every 30 seconds, I can show you video evidence to prove this, that on Friday nights, Saturday afternoon, Saturday nights, Sunday afternoon is the average is about every 30 seconds, boom, boom, boom going by your house.
Unknown Speaker 3:03:28
So let’s work on the language of that. But don’t please do not expand it 12 Please do not expand the distance from 25 to 1200 feet. That’s that’s allowable.
Unknown Speaker 3:03:40
And um, but I do appreciate you taking the time. It’s it’s a, it’s an issue affects a lot of people. And this isn’t just about me. This is about the people in the nursing home in Maine, the people that are that are bearing a loved one at the funeral home on Mountain View and Maine, about the people that pet patio dining and live in Roosevelt apartments, there are hundreds of people that live close to major roadways, and are affected by these loud car stereos every day and sometimes constant for hours at a time, especially downtown on Main Street. So I appreciate your attention to it. But let’s not let’s not expand the distance to 1200. Let’s, let’s talk about some other solutions. I’ll email you a few. I’ve done a lot of research on what other municipalities have done.
Unknown Speaker 3:04:26
And I’ll share those and let’s go from there. Don’t email us email, email. Zack, Jeff and David Davis. Okay. Thanks for the time. Ralph grows wild
Unknown Speaker 3:04:47
I know it’s white, so I’ll try to be brief. I had the opportunity to meet you when I was interviewed for a position on the sustainability advisory board. We spoke briefly and I am now on that board.
Unknown Speaker 3:05:00
Words of we’ll get a chance to get to know all of you.
Unknown Speaker 3:05:08
When when we look at issues like climate change in the war in Ukraine, something like the issue of noise in our community seems small. But this really is a concern. I live, I tried to think more globally. But this is personal in my particular case, because I live on Ninth sort of across from, from Fox Hill, Country Club not far from Union reservoir, Ninth Avenue at five o’clock in the morning. There’s very loud noise, both the stereo and very loud mufflers, motorcycles. And I know that for our neighborhood, which is a lovely neighborhood, everybody’s hearing this beginning around five or 530 in the morning, and it is really, really intrusive. So I’m just I’m really interested in this i, this issue, when I saw that this was coming up, I thought I wanted to come to the council meeting and and, and learn more about it. And so one of the questions that I have is, how can a citizen participate? I’d like to add, I have been on study committees for the City Council where I’ve lived previously, I’d like to help if I can with this. And I’d like to have a little better understanding what a citizen can do. The other gentleman mentioned, what do other municipalities do? I’d be really interested to know and I’ll plan to do my own research and see what I can find out but be really interested to know, what would be
Unknown Speaker 3:06:46
an avenue that that individuals can can help in this.
Unknown Speaker 3:06:51
Approaching this situation. Thank you very much.
Unknown Speaker 3:06:57
And would anybody be able to answer that question? We usually don’t engage back and forth. Okay. Public invited to be heard. Okay. Thank you very much. You’re welcome.
Unknown Speaker 3:07:11
Marin Council comments there any comments from councillors?
Unknown Speaker 3:07:16
Oh, I do see Councillor waters.
Unknown Speaker 3:07:19
Thanks, Mayor Peck.
Unknown Speaker 3:07:22
I know we’ve only done a first reading on changing the fair campaign act to require a street address or peel box
Unknown Speaker 3:07:33
for people who donate to campaigns, but as an expression of their First Amendment rights. That’s what that donation is. I would assume going forward then when people come to that podium and refuse to give us an address, or give us what we know not to be the address of their residents, that they will be as accountable for people making donations that you may or will not allow somebody to not. I think the charter calls for that public invited to be heard that people state their address, and that they’re going to be as accountable when they they are when they’re there as they are if they’re going to donate to him to a campaign.
Unknown Speaker 3:08:17
Councillor Hidalgo ferry
Unknown Speaker 3:08:22
this is more just to advise, let staff know and my council colleagues know and public I’m going in for sinus surgery. A lot of you already know. But I’m going to be out of it for a couple of weeks. I will try to get online next Tuesday.
Unknown Speaker 3:08:40
If I can.
Unknown Speaker 3:08:42
If if I’m not doing well, I may have to step down from that. But I think it’s the LA J. Commissioners meeting.
Unknown Speaker 3:08:52
So and I’ll get caught up with you, Harold, on anything I miss. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 3:08:58
So as far as the residents giving their address, I do understand why they don’t want to I’ve been in that position and didn’t want anybody to know where I live.
Unknown Speaker 3:09:08
But I did talk Harold and I had a very, very preliminary conversation about maybe we can do this through technology.
Unknown Speaker 3:09:16
very preliminary and how we can get addresses, but not make it in the public forum so that
Unknown Speaker 3:09:25
people who don’t need to know the addresses don’t get them. So we’ll have more discussion on that at some later dates, probably.
Unknown Speaker 3:09:36
Unknown Speaker 3:09:40
Harold, do you have any comments for us?
Unknown Speaker 3:09:43
Mayor Council, Eugene.
Unknown Speaker 3:09:46
No comments, Mayor. Thank you. Can I have a motion to adjourn?
Unknown Speaker 3:09:51
seconded by Councillor water seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez to adjourn. All those in favor just voice Aye. Aye.
Unknown Speaker 3:10:00
Transcribed by https://otter.ai