Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Meeting – February 16, 2022
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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Unknown Speaker 0:00
I would like to call the February 16 2022. Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Meeting to order. Can we please start with a roll call?
Unknown Speaker 0:14
An angel said that she
Unknown Speaker 0:16
would be absent to this evening if she couldn’t connect. Um, she’s out of town.
Unknown Speaker 0:21
So we have Scott Conlon here. Jeff Ellen Bogan. When I was going wow. Yeah. Ah, Lewis there. Nicholas Novello. Here. Dan. Alton. Sure. And Tim waters here. Thank you. Thanks very much.
Unknown Speaker 0:52
Great to see everyone. Our next item of business is approval of the agenda. Did everyone get a chance to look at the agenda? Jeff?
Unknown Speaker 1:00
Yeah, I have a change and then a request. So I’d like to postpone the new business be board candidate interview process. The council gave staff direction last night and we are waiting for the city clerk to give us some more direction. And anything I would say this evening would probably be incorrect. So I think it’s best that we wait on that. And then I would like to request that we move new business a up under public invited to be heard so that Bryce can do his presentation and, and head out after that.
Unknown Speaker 1:48
Thank you. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 1:51
So you’re proposing really just to move to switch new business and old business?
Unknown Speaker 1:58
Yes, that’s correct. Okay. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 2:03
Any other proposed changes to the agenda? If not, then I need a motion to approve the agenda as amended.
Unknown Speaker 2:21
Motion to approve. I motion to approve the agenda as amended.
Unknown Speaker 2:28
Unknown Speaker 2:29
Second. Okay, great. All those in favor?
Unknown Speaker 2:34
Aye. Any opposed? Great. agenda is approved.
Unknown Speaker 2:42
Okay, next, we need to approve the previous month’s minutes. Did anyone have any changes to the minute?
Unknown Speaker 2:56
I had a couple of small just
Unknown Speaker 2:59
edits that were not substantive. So I can just send those along via email. Okay, not seeing any changes. I need a motion to approve the minutes.
Unknown Speaker 3:17
A motion to approve the minutes. Thanks. Second. Anyone? I second that. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed?
Unknown Speaker 3:35
You’re good. You didn’t vote?
Unknown Speaker 3:39
I wasn’t at the last meeting. So I didn’t feel like I should
Unknown Speaker 3:41
do. Okay. All right. Good. Okay. The minutes are approved. Great. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 3:49
So we don’t have any public
Unknown Speaker 3:53
invited to be heard. So I would suggest we just move to new business pair gesture class.
Unknown Speaker 4:02
Okay. Well introduce this. Yeah, I can real quick, Jeff.
Unknown Speaker 4:13
I just jump in and use braces. That’s where we’re going next page. Is that where you are? So for this group, I think you know that since I think mostly benign, we’ve hired a new senior Ranger out it union reservoir, timber tosti was taking over that responsibility helping out for a while. Bryce’s come on and really started to help us make some changes in that direction, including some new staffing would be coming on and just wanted to give an overview of what we’re doing from basically now with our open space properties all the way out to you know, basically I 25 up to button rock and everything happening in between and Bryce is going to go ahead and kind of give us a presentation of what they’re doing, what the seasons look like coming up, and then he’ll be available for questions afterwards.
Unknown Speaker 4:59
It’s been crazy. Hey, thanks.
Unknown Speaker 5:02
Tips My name is Bryce Aubrey been a park ranger for about 10 years now at Utah State Parks didn’t any of Denver City of Aurora and then I just started this position about seven months ago developed presentation for you guys just to kind of give you an update on what the Ranger program looks like today and then kind of what our outlook is for 2022
Unknown Speaker 5:26
Embrace I don’t want to start interrupt you can ever hear Bryce Okay, or is he just gonna look closer to his microphone?
Unknown Speaker 5:31
You’re everyone’s good. Okay, thank you. Great, thank you very little quiet.
Unknown Speaker 5:37
Unknown Speaker 5:38
that’s a little quiet to see that, okay.
Unknown Speaker 5:55
So right now we have five full time Rangers, three are based out of the Union reservoir. And then there’s two more full time Rangers up that button rock Preserve. And right now we’re interviewing for two more full time Rangers that will be mostly responsible for the greenways urban parks, Lake McIntosh, basically all the areas that are not union. We also typically hire three to six seasonal temporary Rangers, they usually go from March to October to kind of help us with the busy season. The purpose of this division, park rangers provide resource protection, community outreach and education, public safety in the city of Longmont, parks, open space greenways and public lands. So that’s kind of our our daily mission and our focus. Some of our central duties, like I said, public safety, so we’re working towards getting all full time Rangers Emergency Medical Responder certified. So that’s a little bit of a bump up from basic first aid and CPR, but it’s not quite an EMP. We feel like that’s a good baseline for us to have just to be able to respond to certain emergencies that we might encounter. We’re also working on getting our full timers wildland fire certified or recorded. That way we could help out with any sort of wildfires that may be up around button rock or if you wanted to do some controlled burns and down that’s something that we could assist with as well. We do some law enforcement so that includes verbal warnings, educational contacts, friendly reminders. But that can go all the way up to mandatory court appearance, summonses, tickets, penalty assessments, it just depends on the situation and what the violation calls for. We also do resource protection. So we’re responsible for any aquatic nuisance species inspections for incoming watercraft at human. We also do forestry work at button around so the guys up there pretty much in charge of keeping the area safe, keeping materials clear doing any chainsaw work. And we also do Vizard outreach, so plenty of answering questions, directing people how to best use the parks and open space areas, and just providing that level of customer service. Some of our accomplishments and last year, we drafted a new comprehensive Ranger manual that basically is a guideline for how we operate. That includes standard operating procedures and a build training academy. So we’re on while have a basic level of training. And if we run into any situations, there’s going to be an SOP that we can follow to know exactly what to do. We have a new record revenue at Union reservoir over $700,000 A new the Rangers that have been here for about 20 years typical revenue when they started with about $50,000. So come a long way since they’ve been here. We’ve set new uniform standards, so I’ve ordered body armor for all the full time Rangers. So we’ll be wearing external ballistic vest just as that extra layer of protection for some of the contexts that we do occasionally will contract homeless camps so it’s not a bad idea to have that level of protection. Under the guise of the button rock will context hunters landowners people with rifles in their hands so it never hurts just to have that extra lever protection. Also getting us badges. Currently, we don’t have like actual metal badges. That’ll be in addition to your uniform as well. Price and I the other senior Ranger attended the coastal Colorado Open Space Alliance. So a lot of really good talks, trainings, conversations and networking there. It was good for us to have a presence of that. And then the button rock Rangers they support forestry and water resource operations of button rock that includes the red car training and clearing vegetation in the breeze. They did a lot of work up there to kind of get that place thing go One of the big things it’s going to be new for this year is at Union reservoir, we’re going to have date operation hours. So in the past, once Rangers left union reservoir, whether it be eight o’clock at night, there was no one here. So what happened happened, we dealt with a mess in the morning, and we just did it all over again. But starting March 1, we’re gonna have gate closing and opening hours. So we’ll open the gates at 6am, we’ll close them at 8pm. Until we get into our summer hours, which is six to nine, all ours will be seven to seven, and then during the winter, seven to 16, which is when we’re also close to trailer voting. We think having this like level of protection will help keep the area a little more clean, a little more safe. And it’s just helping us control access. So the things that are happening at night
Unknown Speaker 10:51
Unknown Speaker 10:54
We also have patrol boat for Lake Mackintosh. So we’ll be able to actually go out on the water and contact people address some of the issues out there. It’s a kind of an inflatable boats, something like a Zodiac that has a tiller gas motor on it. So we’ll be able to zip around up there contact people and just deal with the have the extra layer of safety with your rescues on that, whatever we do. We do have a new Ranger dock it union. So we’ll be able to dock our boat there and not take up the public dock getting people’s way and people won’t be in our way. So we need to get on the boat quickly we ever owned can easily access it and take off from there. Our plan for this year is to have more cross training with the parks and open space Rangers like myself and in the watershed rangers have it button rock. So if they ran into an issue and need an extra hand, I would be fully trained on how to operate appears I can help out. Also, if we ran into trouble here in town, the watershed rangers would have an understanding of how to operate in town as well. So a little more cross training. And as David likes to say, plug and play. But if I need someone here, I can grab a button Rock Ranger and then you know exactly what to do. We’re also using survey 123 for data for contacts and patrols sort of David or someone asked me so how many contacts that we had at Dickens natural area in the past, I wouldn’t have a really good answer for him. But using this new system that you can see below here, like all these pinpoints are some variety of contacts that we’ve made. So I’ll be able to pull that up, like Okay, so we’ve made contacts here, here here and start to create a trend of hotspots. And now where we’re at maybe where we need to be more often. I think that’s going to be useful for us here. That’s kind of all the updates I have for you today. And I’m more than happy to answer any questions or clarify anything.
Unknown Speaker 12:51
Unknown Speaker 12:55
if I asked the Chair, if I could have a say if I have just a moment to maybe pull a couple more things out from Bryce. I think before you ask answer questions, I think if I could just follow up with things that you talked about Bryce, where it was the the boat for rescues and stuff out there, can you talk a little bit more or share with the board on kind of how rescues played I think you guys take for granted. What you do out there. As far as rescues and stuff, give an idea how many rescues you typically do and what those look like.
Unknown Speaker 13:26
So I think our number from last year was close to 120. That can be as simple as a pot of water that got knocked off the board and the wind to get away we have to go put them out of the water. Occasionally, it’s something a little more serious, like a turtle sailboat where the mass is pointing down in the water. And that’s gonna be tricky, but it’s doable. Va can range from something pretty simple to a little more hectic, especially if it’s a large wind event where we have 100 out of boards out there and it’s going to be a yard sale and it could take a while to get everyone either too short or back on their boards. But it’s pretty common for us to do that on the weekend. Jim summer, it gets pretty windy in the spring as well. So as soon as we open the boating once the ice clears, we’ll be ready for rescues.
Unknown Speaker 14:18
Yeah, I’ve been out there actually having parents come into the Ranger office thanking the Rangers because they’ve had kids out in the water blown off and had no idea where they’re at. So I think you know that our communities really recognize really what you guys do out there and daily basis. That’s one of sure that and then the other piece that is hoping you touched on a little bit too with our our kind of change. You mentioned that increase in revenue one things that we really have done I think you’ve brought a great piece too is that work with recreation, we shifted some of the responsibilities and your background is a similar situation where you work and recreation. Can you talk a little bit about how your work is recreation, how that’s working for you.
Unknown Speaker 14:54
So um, we’re trying to kind of create a joint effort here where recreation and when a lot of The revenue driven items like intercession, anything that’s going to make money, and then I’ll be able to assist them on some of the public safety, resource protection and just work together. Even though we might have different goals and motivations, we still want the best as it was a long line in a joint effort with maybe different backgrounds and different work groups. We’re all waiting for the same thing. Great, sorry.
Unknown Speaker 15:28
Thank you very much for that time. And I’ll turn over to the chair to ask questions.
Unknown Speaker 15:35
Yeah, no, thanks. So both of you. Really great to get that overview and to understand how those resources have been bolstered recently. Any questions from the board? Because
Unknown Speaker 15:49
it’s page for surprise. Thank you for the the update really helpful. My question is related to the 2022 patrol boat that’s going out for like Macintosh. My question on that is, is that part of the mission they’re going to be keeping an eye out for the max boat limit that we have for like Macintosh? Or is it purely rescue?
Unknown Speaker 16:15
Rescue is going to be part of it. Honestly, I’ve never rescued someone zodiacs. I don’t know how easy or hard it is, we’re gonna find that out. But um, as it was last year, we were mostly patrolling by shore. So if I didn’t catch the person before they launched and they were no undergrowth on the water, yelling at them is not particularly effective. And then they might come back, but for the most part, they’re gonna wave at me and just keep doing whatever they were doing. Knowing that there’s zero chance that I’ll ever be able to go out there and actually do anything. So being able to contact people on the water, it’s going to be a big difference, I can actually address some of the issues out there, it’s going to make it a lot easier than just, I don’t like to yell at people. That’s never really a good way to go about it. But if I can gently brews up the super friendly and address an issue, I think it’s going to go a lot better. capacity issue, that’s something that we’ll definitely be able to address easier.
Unknown Speaker 17:16
If you have a follow up, and then we’ll go to
Unknown Speaker 17:19
it maybe once things that we did talk was it as a group here, too, because the capacity issue within the Macintosh master plan was one staff recommendations. But if if prices go there right now, there is nothing in our ordinances or on our signs that say that’s an enforceable p. So his recommendation, I think is that body was talking about ways to help better manage that property is one of the pieces that I know for neighbors was frustrating, because I read the management plan and see that recommended number. But at this point, we don’t have a pasty number on that body water. And back then is Dan Wolfer. Design, I would talk about, you know, paddle boards weren’t even a thing back then. So to think about, you know, people bringing out boats and launching or sailboats, it wasn’t sort of that idea would ever get that sort of capacity out there. The other piece that I just kind of go back to as we looked at why we’re trying to keep those numbers down, a lot of that really was for the management of that critical wildlife area, the western end of that Bryson range has been doing a great job again, those buoys out sooner trying to make sure we’re keeping people out of that area. So the capacity issue, I think, is something as we look at how we try to manage that, it’s gonna be really challenging, because as I’ve walked that for the last couple years to COVID, for Bryce was here. I mean, if you’ve been kicking people off of one side, they’d be putting it on the other side. So I think unless you had really some really strong controlled access points, it’d be hard to manage a specific number. I think what our goal really is, is to make sure that people are respecting the wildlife. They’re respectful as neighbors. And as Bryce talked about, that we’re make sure they’re safe. So the PFDs were a big piece, we had a lot of people there that has bought their first counterbore Santa paddleboard, it didn’t have personal floatation devices, and definitely concern for us. And they were on the water without having some other to either make sure they got that piece of equipment or left the water so that that’s where we’re at in that. And if the spill, I talk a little bit more on what this group thinks about, we should be looking at, we can do that. But for right now, I think the way we’re kind of looking as that was a great recommendation in time. I think practically it makes it really hard for ranchers to enforce that. And if we’re looking at the underlying objectives is that if we can achieve those, I think that’s what we’re really shooting for.
Unknown Speaker 19:23
Thanks, David. Can I Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 19:27
to follow up on the lake McIntosh, my experience. I mean, I’m over there every other day walking the dog. And on a beautiful summer day. We’ll I’ve counted upwards of 75 boats before. And I think you’re right, David, there’s just no way to stop that. It’s too nice. It’s too easy. The part that we should be worried about is that folks are treating it like the union reservoir beach. There are plenty of folks swimming and there’s no rope it goes you know people go as far as they want to go I mean that’s an actual accident waiting to happen. So and so I wondered Bryce, what’s the plan? How many days of the week? Or how many hours of a day? Is patrolling really going to happen? My recommendation would be any nice day would be the day to be there. Because the numbers go up dramatically. If it’s a beautiful day, I mean, no surprise. So I’m just curious if there’s a plan, or we’ll work it out as we go or what your thought is.
Unknown Speaker 20:28
I’m part of it’s going to be working out as we do, until we’re completely fully staffed with the two new Rangers that we’re interviewing for now. And then a full champion seasonal Ranger staff. Once we’re at full strength, I don’t see why we can’t be up there every day that it’s going to be nice, necessary. Will we be there all day? Everything might be a little unreasonable right now, but frequent check ins with the boat, I don’t see why we can’t make that happen.
Unknown Speaker 20:56
Oh, great. I had just didn’t know what the field was, if this is a part time thing, or a full time thing. Great. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 21:03
We had the two full timers there were a union. So if it’s nice over magnetize, it’s going to be nice at union dues, they, they just didn’t have the opportunity to even go over there freely. Or if they did would be a drive by Yep, there’s not a horse out there, and then come back to Union. But with the additional staff, I think we’ll be able to address these issues a lot more frequently.
Unknown Speaker 21:26
And we do have the ordinance against the swimming in that body of water too. So that that is enforceable. It’s not like that number we do we do have an ordinance and it is signed out there too. So definitely. Bryce is grading, you know, trying to gain voluntary compliance. And if people do that, I’m sure that will be fine. But if not, they had the the ability to enforce that.
Unknown Speaker 21:44
Well, the ramp on the north side, forget the name of the park, and then the beach ish kind of area by the volleyball court on the south side are the fallopian tubes statue, that’s the one that well, you all know what I mean, if you go by there, but that beach is a popular place to swim. And folks set up tents, it looks just like Union, it’s a great spot, but a lot of folks swim.
Unknown Speaker 22:10
Right? So I’m just gonna share with the group, because you guys are on this board is I think I appreciate this board. If it’s biking or out of the reservoirs, you’re out there a lot and helping to share these messages. One of the reasons that we’re so concerned about that is we don’t with Union, we have a swim Beach, which requires us to test the water. So Bryce and his crew are testing that water, we have a body of water there that we don’t know the water quality, we have agriculture and livestock upstream from that. And people are in that water with us and them knowing the quality of that water. So if you’re out there, I mean, we don’t want to put you that forces being but anytime you can help get people have better understanding what’s happening out there. I think it’s beneficial. So
Unknown Speaker 22:47
it’s a lot easier if I have a person like that, you know, we have a really great swim beach over here in the water quality is known for the safety of a lifeguard. Just so people know, that doesn’t work. So great. If I say no, but you have this great option here. That usually goes a lot better.
Unknown Speaker 23:06
Is there signage about the lack of testing sort of unknown water quality? That would discourage me from swimming? I mean, I don’t know if it’s posted out there.
Unknown Speaker 23:20
Don’t think it is but something it’d be a great deal. Like I said, people, giving people a no, and giving people a reason for not doing something they help make their own decision always is a great piece that we can use to our advantage in their advantage. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 23:35
I guess I was just gonna ask I’m sure it does cost money. But I guess I wondered, how complicated would it be to do water testing not to necessarily open up the swimming more, but just to know, I guess my attached question to that is, if people are paddleboarding they have to be falling in the water? How is that any safer than swimming? And I don’t think there’s a real answer to that question. But if it’s okay to paddleboard and fall in, then it’s probably okay to swim unless you’re drinking the water on purpose. I don’t know where I’m going with that. But I guess why don’t we water test there?
Unknown Speaker 24:07
I think copper I
Unknown Speaker 24:09
guess I’ve actually asked those same questions too. I think you know, again, I think as we go back with that master plan, it really was written before we had you know, people on BOCES Impala boats as much as you know, you look at the paddleboard piece. So it really is a piece that if we’re having people a new interview, paddleboarding is something that we may want to consider. But one of the real reasons for testing is when you have a swim beach and maybe Jeff could jump in there too, if he has a thing on that. But I think that really becomes the trigger point is we have a swim beach so people are flying off their paddle boards is that incidental contact? I think the state looks at differently than if you’re biting people into the water to swim. So that’s my wildlife biologist. Take it that answer
Unknown Speaker 24:47
if if something is a swim beach does that then require a lifeguard is that I mean, I guess I’m wondering like, why not make that little beach by the statue of swim beach? I imagine it’s because you have to have a lifeguard.
Unknown Speaker 24:57
Your city, the city requires that Any bodies of water that people swim in that we do have to have lifeguards with masterplan that David’s referring to it was always outlined that there would not be public swimming at Mackintosh. So there really hasn’t been ever a plan to do the testing, or to have lifeguards there.
Unknown Speaker 25:26
Thanks, Jeff. And, Jeff, if you have a comment.
Unknown Speaker 25:32
Yeah, I just add that one of our goals when we do when we update our master plan, our parks, trails recreation master plan, is we really need to relook at all of our aquatic bodies and what the desired recreational uses already each one of them. We’re buying land on the west side of McCall Lake, you know, do we want to increase the fishing there? Do we want to do something different Mackintosh, I think that the technology has changed a lot. Since we last we thought about how we want to treat each of these water bodies. And so when I say technology, I mean, boating and inflatables, and paddle boards and things like that. So that will be one long term, long term goal is where we look at all of our water bodies that we have recreational rights to, and see what we can do to make things safe and what’s logical for the balance between recreation and habitat.
Unknown Speaker 26:32
Notice, did you have something? Yeah, it
Unknown Speaker 26:35
was in 2021. Was there any life threatening incident? Was there?
Unknown Speaker 26:44
Or did you have any any anecdotal stuff? Because I had a couple so I won’t
Unknown Speaker 26:49
Unknown Speaker 26:52
I was looking, was it any life threatening incident last year?
Unknown Speaker 26:58
My threatening incidents,
Unknown Speaker 26:59
I’m the only one that I’m very aware of is we had a kid fall into the oligarchy. When the parents weren’t watching, I think it was like a 234 year old kid. Luckily, one of our seasonal Rangers was pretty aware of the kids playing by the oligarchy. So he was able to run down there and pull the kid out of the water. The parents didn’t even know the kid was in the water. So yeah, we gave him an award for that for being hyper vigilant and taking action for that rescue. If you want to call some of our boat rescues life threatening, that might be appropriate for some of them, probably not for all of them. Okay, and I don’t have a discount on all of those. I’m using that survey, one two day program that I spoke about earlier, we’re able to log the rescues and all that as well. So if you’re familiar, if you’ve seen so many boat rescues that you do union should be able to give you a very accurate number.
Unknown Speaker 27:57
Thank you. Okay, any other final questions? Great. Thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Unknown Speaker 28:13
Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.
Unknown Speaker 28:22
Unknown Speaker 28:23
our next agenda item is going back to old business. And we have revisiting and finalizing our 2022 agenda calendar and then sort of follow up discussion on recreation facilities.
Unknown Speaker 28:44
So I should I kick this
Unknown Speaker 28:46
off, Jeff and David based on our Is it okay for me to share my screen and just share what’s in the packet for the discussion?
Unknown Speaker 28:56
Yeah, rora Nikki, can
Unknown Speaker 28:57
you help us with that?
Unknown Speaker 29:01
I can do it.
Unknown Speaker 29:02
I have it pulled
Unknown Speaker 29:03
up. No, I meant they I think they have to give you permissions to do that
Unknown Speaker 29:08
now. Okay, it did yeah, all right. You’re ready. You can now share your screen Awesome. Hey if I can find it okay. So
Unknown Speaker 29:49
as you hopefully recall at the last meeting, we did some initial brainstorming about agenda topics for our calendar for the year. And Jeff David and I have followed up on that and tried to put as many of those topics in in a meaningful way throughout the calendar over the year. And Stephen David also brought some additional topics that they proposed and we talked through. So I think, probably the best if we just kind of go through this and have some discussion about whether this makes sense. And if there’s any additions or changes that we want to make before finalizing it, and I will a couple things I wanted to note I put on here you’ll see future recreation facilities as kind of an ongoing topic for this board, because I feel like it’s been something that we have all had a lot of interest in and have prioritized and wanted to engage in. So you’ll see that there. I’m proposing that that be a priority item of this board to address in an ongoing way at meetings throughout the year. But we’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback on that. And then I think we might want to do something similar with master planning. But depending on what schedule that actually follows, because I think when we talked
Unknown Speaker 31:16
Unknown Speaker 31:19
we were thinking or the staff were thinking that that was going to be moving on a faster or different timeframe than perhaps it is. So and we did make some changes already, because button Rock has to be moved, I think to march and the new board candidate process is being postponed. So obviously, this is not absolutely fixed, we can update it as we need to. But it will be good for planning purposes to have this sketched out. And I will also note, I would love for us as board to have some kind of board retreat, you’ll see I plugged that in just as kind of a note in March. I think that’s something that used to happen more regularly pre COVID. And maybe by late March or early April, we could actually do something in person. And I think the idea would be just to pick some topics that we really want to learn about together. So it wouldn’t be a formal like voting business meeting, but more of a learning opportunity for us as a board. Oh, with that, I would love to open it to Well, first Jeff and David, if you have anything you want to say and then we can just open it for discussion.
Unknown Speaker 32:36
No. Sorry, David. Oh, I
Unknown Speaker 32:39
was gonna say I just apologize for not getting button rock on this time. We had a scheduling snafu for another meeting, which causes a domino effect. So we definitely squeeze that in there and get that that caught up but a message only thing I would say is this thank you for being flexible with
Unknown Speaker 32:54
Unknown Speaker 33:02
No and I guess the only thing I’d say is the new board candidate will interview process we’ll probably try to talk about that in March or April. Since we really aren’t involved with that process until the end of the year. We do have some time with that
Unknown Speaker 33:22
right. Okay, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 33:26
Sam, wanna kick us out
Unknown Speaker 33:27
lose David I’m curious about the button rock I filled out the questionnaire you know the talk to Longmont, whatever it’s called. And I got the impression things were happening soon, like, city council is approving it. Like before we meet in March was the impression I got
Unknown Speaker 33:45
we had to move everything out. So I’ll be honest, this group you know, we really try to get through Dale Rata make of that leadership team to kind of see those presentations if there’s questions internally then take it to the boards and then take it to council we were not able to get to the sales leadership team. So that really bumped everything out so there really is there’s honestly no sense of urgency in the fact that we have grants pending on this we have to staffing for this we all just read like a Dell we realize with COVID it took longer than he expected so our real sense of urgency is just getting it done but making sure we follow our sequence getting all the all the right boards and stuff done just caused us to push it out a little bit. Like I say be nice to have it done but we’re just gonna end up having to bump everything a little bit.
Unknown Speaker 34:29
Okay, great. So we get to take a look before it goes to city council
Unknown Speaker 34:34
is that that’s what yeah, okay, so that’s where not only are you being bumped but all the other boards have been bumped and counts as being bumped as well. Got it. Thank you do that. Thank you. And thanks for doing a survey
Unknown Speaker 34:49
so any other I mean, hopefully you guys saw this and I can go off of share but we have you know recreation facilities ongoing masterplanning we’ve got capital improvement projects of current and future. Looking at open space and Greenway considerations, potentially impending development, brain force Health Partnership, comprehensive trails systems and building trail connectivity. Several different aspects of recreation programming, based throughout parks, maintenance and open space stewardship.
Unknown Speaker 35:34
So a plan in interesting year Councilman waters
Tim Waters 35:44
thanks, page, I’m gonna go back to button rock just for whatever it’s worth. In our, in our queue, David and, Jeff, it looks to me that looks to me, it’s a CTQ of a council discussion in a study session on March 1 of the button rock management plan in its relationship to code updates. So I assume you’re aware of that. And I,
Unknown Speaker 36:12
we were but I’m not sure, we will get it done and make sure that everything kind of sequences out, I just, I just got Danielle just gave me the new sequencing of all the different dates, it took a little bit work to do that. And I think the ultimate goal is to make sure we end up in, you know, Council, when we show up at Council will come with, you know, this has been looked at by staff, by leadership by these boards. And you’ll get that with that context around it. So
Tim Waters 36:35
those things are what’s in the queue. I always think of as tentative until we get a formal agenda, just just so you know, in the queue, it shows on a study session on March 1. So
Unknown Speaker 36:48
I believe that’s been pushed out. And I will double check I think for the reminder is still there.
Unknown Speaker 36:59
Um, so I just wanted to know, I saw on the ideas that there’s masterplanning updates and masterplan discussions, almost monthly. I wonder if you in the board can provide staff a little bit more detail about what it is you’re looking for there, because that’s a very broad topic. The update to the parks and trails, parks recreation trails master plan might not be be started until third or fourth quarter of this year, if they are. So I’m just I’m curious. We want to be able to prepare for you what you want. But I’m not sure that it’s clear to us what you’re looking to prepare. Steve, I
Unknown Speaker 37:41
can see, Jeff, do you want it? You probably had the most recent conversation on this. Would you mind starting it? I could share what I know then
Unknown Speaker 37:46
too. Yeah. So a couple of weeks ago, I met with the city manager about a number of different topics. And one of the things that he was recommending is that a number of the master plan processes that were being planned for this year, be put on hold, including the Parks Rec and trail master plan. And his concern is, you know, staff is in some cases already overburdened with the amount of things that they’re working on. And and and especially with what I will say, Steve, and Kathy. And his preference would be that, instead of doing additional planning for more parks or facilities that they’d actually be able to do some of the work of getting more parks actually worked on in completed. That is that is different from his direction on the recreation Master Plan, which is about the programming side of recreation. And he really wants us to move forward with our process. Because he wants to really have us check in with the public to see what their views are, post or towards the end of COVID. And to see if their interests and their desires have changed at all through the last two and a half years of experience that we’ve had with COVID.
Unknown Speaker 39:22
So Jeff, I appreciate you doing that. Because you know, Jeff and I had these conversations as we’re working on, you know, that Parks and Recreation piece of this. So as he shared that information with me, I went back and check with Dale and Dale confirmed today that that’s the direction he’s been hearing to. So I think Steve for staff and for this group, as we get kind of more direction on how things are going to be changed or how that time there was gonna go to masterplans is being looked at to try to get more work done, which I think everyone agrees is you know, something we all could be doing. We’ll be happy to share that with this group and staff as we get a little bit more clarity on that.
Unknown Speaker 39:56
Yeah, and that one thing I’d like to do also Ben, if you To turn your camera on, Ben Wagner is a area supervisor in recreation, Ben and Jason stoles will be leading the masterplan process for recreation. And so Ben will be attending our meetings, probably throughout this year and maybe longer. But as we have updates, we’re going to have it as a placeholder on the agenda. And there might be some months where we, we really don’t have anything to report. But we want to have it in there just in case so that we can keep the board informed and getting feedback from them also. So thank you to Ben and, and again, you’ll be seeing him quite a bit in the coming months.
Unknown Speaker 40:51
Great, thanks to both of you. Yeah, the intention, as Jeff said, was really to make sure that if one or both of those master planning process was was going to go forward, that this board would have, you know, all appropriate opportunities to be engaged and, and up to speed and in that. So that’s why we put it on there as an ongoing item, sort of pending, more understanding of what happens, the timing of the process.
Unknown Speaker 41:18
And there might be months where we we don’t have anything to report on the recreation facility, but again, want to have that as a placeholder, so that it’s always reminding us that we’re working on that.
Unknown Speaker 41:34
I’ll give a very quick update to it. Jason and I are gathering up our ducks, and just trying to figure out what we don’t know about the whole thing right now. And then getting to an RFP for a consultant at some point. And purchasing is very busy. So getting through to them in the next, hopefully six to eight weeks.
Unknown Speaker 41:56
That’s about it right now.
Unknown Speaker 42:00
You’re working on a consultant for the master planning process to help with that? Is that what you mean?
Unknown Speaker 42:06
Yes, for the public input part, and help gather just as we did for the last one, we’ll do the same for this one, it’ll be updating the last one. So hopefully not quite as involved. It was a good document, then. But certainly time for an update with everything that’s happened in the last seven years. I think,
Unknown Speaker 42:30
yeah, I just wanted to add that while we kind of wait for that direction, on where to go with some of the master plans, including the Parks, Recreation, open space and trails master plan, we are we are talking about, you know what we might need in the interim. So even if we don’t proceed with the full process, the full poem process we have talked about, and we’ll probably want to check in with you all needs that we might have in the interim, you know, and one idea we’ve talked about is maybe just a report card of what was planned in our current master plan, what have we gotten done? Where are we at? What do we still need to do even based on the priorities that we have in the current plan. So that might be informative to this group and the staff, at least to have a check in, you know, and kind of a report on where we’re at. So even if we don’t move forward with the full on process, we’ll still probably want to chat with you about maybe what to do in the meantime. So I think it’d be good to have some time on the agenda for discussion like that. Thanks.
Unknown Speaker 43:41
Board Member. Dan, did you have
Unknown Speaker 43:46
no thanks. No,
Unknown Speaker 43:48
tackle it later. That? Um,
Unknown Speaker 43:53
yes, I think just on the calendar, looking at the CIP process, I think last year, we discussed, we wanted to kind of have an idea of the candidates per CIP before we just voted on that CIP. I think one of
Unknown Speaker 44:12
the challenging things for me is I’ve come in here and we, we, I’ve learned our CIP process and how those projects are laid out. And we really have a one year CIP, but it’s a five year plan. So as we’re going through and looking at this, Kathy and Harold recognize, too, we have projects that are 717 1819 20 projects that we’re still trying to finish up. And as we’re looking forward to 2527, it gets hard to really make any really firm decisions now far out. So I think a lot of times we get as we bring stuff to this board and like to get input and feedback lessons are really locked into that plan that’s been laid out there five years ago, and we’re really still at so we can definitely try to get that to you sooner than later. And I think having a better understanding of how we can utilize this group To figure out our priorities, As Kathy said, especially if we get some direction to try to get more done, we’ll be talking about what we need through the CIP process and the budgeting process. To drag the resources, we need to try to get more of that backlog of work done. And then take more forward look as well. So, and I kind of sharing a little bit here. So I have had, you know, board members ask him about, you know, that backlog and what we need to get that done. So as we go through CIP and budget process, I’ll be definitely bring that forward to this group.
Unknown Speaker 45:28
Steve, Kathy, and I,
Unknown Speaker 45:33
I’m going to kick this back over there, because you know, they had traded me in this whole process coming forward to a little bit. So if you’d like to add to that, please do. Yeah. So
Unknown Speaker 45:44
part of the challenge is that we as the project managers have to have our projects, cost estimate proposed years proposed operational dollars, proposed design and construction dollars, to
Unknown Speaker 46:00
Unknown Speaker 46:03
I’ll make a bid dates by March 18. And the Dave asked to talk about it with Dale and his his leadership team, they could need a week or so. And then there’s like a three week period where leadership moles, all the different projects back and forth. And then staff has to go back and make changes based on what leadership is saying that we should make. Trying to find the sweet spot for proud to provide input is hard. Because we’re not ready to give it to you yet, because we’re still working on it. Once David gets it, he’s already taking up the management. And we can ask, we can ask leadership, if we can bring it to the board. But how well the board will be heard, I really don’t know. Because it is a complete juggling act looking at, you know, funding something in the library or something in the police department versus something in natural resources. Like it’s not just natural resources stuff. So it’s outside the purview of the this board. So believe me, we’ve been talking about this for 20 plus years I’ve been here, haven’t found the best way open for suggestions. We’re open to provide interim documents, but uh, you know where we’re moving toward. But it’s because you guys only meet once a month. It’s hard with the whole calendar doesn’t stop for the whole city, everything is keeps moving on a week to week basis. And so finding that sweet spot, in order to get the input that I believe that the board would desire to provide is just a challenge.
Unknown Speaker 47:46
And I’ll just add, I do like what I see on the calendar right now is one month, we’re talking about 2022 projects. And then the next month, we’re talking about 2023. And maybe beyond. But what I recall last year is i i think it worked pretty well, we were able to talk to you all about kind of our work plan. And what fits in our work plan as well as that forward thinking with the with the CIP. So what I think worked well is that we were able to check in with you all about what is in the queue. And just be honest with you about this is what’s in the queue. This is what we’re working on. This is what we’ve been directed that our priorities are right now. And then, you know, this is what we can fit next year, and maybe look at 2020 for a couple years. And then really just make sure that we’re not missing something like there’s not an elephant in the room that we’re just, you know, we’re just missing or our priorities are off kind of things like that. I feel like that’s what we did last year, and I thought it worked well. But until we kind of get more aligned, staffing wise, looking at those adding more and the new stuff, it’s just really we’re looking way out and 26 and 27 Before we can start adding real new ideas and new projects, but it’s still good to check in and hear from y’all so mine uh, I’m not
Tim Waters 49:27
I don’t know how the how whether we’ll be asked the question in this budgeting cycle and to stay in 2023 that we were asked last year, and it’s the only time we’ve been asked as a council. If what are our what are our recommendations for framed as one time expenditures? And for me, just so happened I had some back pocket proposals to make and made them to herald and I’m not certain what other council members do With respect to the budget and what they might or might not submit to the city manager, but I will say to David in and to Steve and to Jeff into the board, it would be a missed opportunity for me to not have a shortlist, kind of a back pocket list of potential priorities for the 2023 budget. If we get that question again this year. Thank you,
Unknown Speaker 50:30
we’ll definitely make sure we try to take care of that
Unknown Speaker 50:33
Unknown Speaker 50:40
Other questions, comments without the calendar made? Does the idea of having the recreation facilities, new recreation facilities as an ongoing item makes sense to all of you based on our previous conversation? Is there anything that you see missing? If
Unknown Speaker 51:02
I may be speaking out of turn, but I do that a lot? I guess my question for the councilman would be is that even something that he thinks is worth spending our time on right now? Like Aaron give us some of his opinions in the past about maybe that would be worth talking about? But I guess I’m curious. How much legs does a new a new recreation facility even have in the next year just as a concept because I know it’s yours before we even be built?
Tim Waters 51:26
If you don’t advance the conversation, we will have no legs. Okay. All right. So Paige, and I’ve talked about this. I would encourage you, to be thick become as clear as you can possibly be about what your priorities are, what you think the city’s priorities ought to be. And I’ve encouraged Paige to lean in. And I would encourage all of you to lean in, on on the council and with the council to get an answer to the question, what where do we where does that fall as a priority for this city council. And in? You know, we’ve got a couple of other big things in the queue, like a follow on to a feasibility study for performing arts and Conference Center. We’re anticipating a library feasibility study that is now months overdue. I think it would be a mistake for us to get far into those discussions without recreation facilities in the mix. So I won’t, I’ll promise you. I’ll make that a priority. For me that will be in the conversation if you guys are, are ready to have it.
Unknown Speaker 52:35
Awesome. Well, then I think we should talk about it a lot on this committee, because it has been something that I feel like for years, this is my third year on this committee. We’ve all wanted to move in that direction.
Unknown Speaker 52:49
I feel like we all have action for everyone. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 52:55
that was my question earlier. And thank you for restating what you said last meeting, Councilman waters, you brought up this good point that we need to be ready and be clear and be prepared to voice our opinion or, you know, the city’s opinion, if we can gather enough info, that that’s an important thing, and not miss the chance to we discussed it last time, you know, if there’s a big bond issue, then we should be part of that like it. That’s how we got the rec center built 20 odd years ago, was being part of a big plan, you know, instead of one thing that anybody could vote against, instead of maybe let’s do this, lets make the city better by doing X, Y, and Z or whatever it is. So I’m totally in your camp on this one.
Tim Waters 53:43
Last night during council meeting, if anybody watched, if you did, you want to go get a real life. She have something to do on Tuesday nights other than watch Council news, but a topic of conversation. One of the topics was what kind of ballot questions we were talking about potential changes in the in the charter, specifically as as those changes would relate to the election process and and what we’ve learned through this last election cycle and some tweaks that we’d want to make, but the but there was a corresponding or a parallel question about what other potential ballot questions might the staff bring to council to put on the ballot in November? And I just as we get into those discussions, there ought to be some sharp thinking about whether there’s a ballot question in 2022 or not. When we’re talking about quote ballot questions, generally, to remind the council and the public that this is a real conversation. We we we haven’t come back to it since 2018. And and the pool a nice proposal, but we need to reinvigorate that conversation. Be clear on where it falls with the other questions that we’ll consider whether it’s 2022 or 2023.
Unknown Speaker 55:11
In frankly, Dan,
Tim Waters 55:12
if that conversation if I rotate off counsel, and I don’t get, I don’t have a chance to be in that conversation, I’m going to be disappointed.
Unknown Speaker 55:22
I think we can continue some of this under the recreation facilities item. So let’s, I don’t want to stop the conversation. But I do want to, if there’s anything else we need to add or amend on calendar before we approve that and move on, I’d love to hear that.
Unknown Speaker 55:43
Page, just as you know, setting up a tour is always quite the endeavor. So the earlier the board can try to look at that and suggestion dates for counseling things get that dialed in, the more successful I think you’ll you’ll be trying to get something set up.
Unknown Speaker 56:00
Great. Appreciate that. Any other questions or proposed changes to the calendar? If not,
Unknown Speaker 56:14
I think we should probably officially approve it. I’m looking at Jeff. Okay. If I could get a motion to approve the calendar is included in the packet. Jeff, are you moving?
Unknown Speaker 56:35
I’d be happy to make a motion to approve the calendar from the packet.
Unknown Speaker 56:41
And I need a question. And thank you. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Great.
Unknown Speaker 56:50
We have a calendar. Thanks, everyone. So our next item of business we’ve already been kind of making our way into was just to, again, revisit this idea of new recreation facilities, what the status of that is, in terms of conversations with the council conversations with staff, you know, what is that that’s the next step that we as a board could take, I think in order to encourage the city to be moving on at least gathering information that could form the basis for a future ballot initiative? And I don’t know, I noted that. Ben, or maybe you just said that there is going to be information gathering in conjunction with a master planning, but would we would we need to do something different in order to revisit public opinion in a robust way around recreation facilities?
Unknown Speaker 57:56
So I think there’s two parts to that question. We want to get some feedback on the master plan. Again, as it relates to the impact COVID has had on recreation, or if there even is an impact. So I think we’d start that first and have some of that information. Help us with the new rec facility. My My belief is that when we did our last contact with the public, which was in January of 2020, which would have been right after the bond election that we did for pool a nice, the public was very supportive. And I still believe, and I don’t I this is just me talking. I don’t have anything that says this is why I think it but my belief is that for 10 years prior to COVID people were or routinely saying that we needed a new rec center, because the current rec center is too busy. I think as mass come off on Friday at five, I hope our world changes and that people continue to come come back. I think we’re averaging surround 580 people a week right now, prior to COVID. That number was 1200 a day. So the the impact of masking and social distancing has been very large. And so I continue to meet with the city manager with Karen Maroney, the Director of the Community Services Department. I have given them a proposal to consider also hiring a consultant to help us with a design to work Review the financial side of that, as well as to help us evaluate the location in an effort to be prepared to present that to counsel. And, and I think along the way, we’ll have some initial check ins with counsel to verify that, you know, the least the majority of them want us to move forward with that. And, you know, any support that Tim can provide to us will be excellent. So I’m, and then the other thing is, I think it would be important for the board, if that’s what you choose to do, is to make some type of motion that you feel that a new rec facility is is a priority. And we would encourage the city to try to move forward with that.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:53
Unknown Speaker 1:01:01
I don’t remember when we discussed this last, but I feel like in one of the most last few meetings that I attended, at least there was a conversation about doing a another survey of the public to find out more and about what they would want in a rec center, like getting away from competitive pool and ice to like, what do we actually want? And I guess I’m wondering, I felt like we never even got to the point where we fully understood how that process would even happen. I know that it costs money to do a survey, and wasn’t clear to me if we needed to do it. And B if we wanted to do it, was that the correct next step? And then see, how would we get the money to have a survey process happen? So I mean, I I’m all for like making a motion and saying, I’d be happy to make a motion that says the board isn’t in favor of moving towards a rec center. But I guess I’m wondering what are the tangible steps? And how do we actually take steps instead of just talking about it? Like, what’s the step we can make like tonight, to move the ball forward?
Unknown Speaker 1:01:57
I think the motion is that step. And then I would ask for your patience with me as a as I work with the city administration. I believe that we have a funding source to fund it. But until, you know, city manager and Karen are on board with that, I think it would be premature for me to say a whole lot about that. I think that when when we built the Longmont rec center, we would look at doing that same type of process with a consultant where we would go through a request for proposals and and that work would include public meetings that would get their input. One of the one of the best meetings I’ve remember in my 23 years of being with the city of Longmont was the design charrette that we did at the Senior Center. And we did what we called a card game, and we had about 120 people there that night. And they were able to design their rec center that they wanted in each of these groups based on having a $8 million budget. And that we had on the cards, it cost this much to build a swimming pool, it costs this much to build a gymnasium. And what was very unique and what I would say there’s probably 12 groups that virtually every one of the groups designed exactly the same rec center. And it’s the one that we have on coil now. It was a pretty cool process.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:53
Except for the part where people were yelling at kids that they don’t get to vote because they don’t pay taxes. Well, that wasn’t very fun. Now, but
Unknown Speaker 1:04:01
the overall process was good. And I would really hope that we could do something along that line. Again. And and part of what Paige and I and David wanted to talk about his this evening is to get some of your input on what you think that process should look like in engaging with the public. Maybe getting some feedback from you all of what you think should be included in in that next facility. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:04:41
I was at that meeting, Jeff. And I remember that too. That was fun. And I think we must go that way again, specifically to counter the word competitive. That was in the last budget proposal. That was the, in my opinion, and I think some of the things back we got was the problem. And the folks we talked to, were all on the same page that we wanted a 50 meter pool for our girls and boys to go racin. And that’s not what the general public voting wanted to hear. So I think that’s a great idea to have only 100 people come, you know, 10,000 people will hear about it and realize, Oh, we’re designing the rec center. So I think I mean, almost building another rec center, like we have is probably what a lot of folks would like only in a different part of town, just to spread it out, or spread the wealth and spread the crowd. But we should get direct feedback to that effect. By having a meeting where you get to design one or you know, you get to pick a place, you know, under these constraints, etc. But I think more buy in early will help get anything past later. I mean, maybe it’s all obvious, but it’s clearly a lesson we need to learn from three years ago.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:06
Yeah, I would agree. And I think we would also have meetings with stakeholders, whether those are swim groups, or, you know, basketball players, or, you know, we would reach out to pickleball people to get as much feedback as possible so that we’re not only talking to the general public, but specific user groups as well.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:31
Oh, so one thing
Unknown Speaker 1:06:33
I was wondering about, as we were talking about this, you know, we you also have this notion of a potential second outdoor pool facility. And, you know, there’s, we don’t know exactly the future of Centennial and how that might fit in. So part of why the wording on the calendar items is sort of recreation facilities. I mean, it might be a facility or facilities. And I just wonder if it makes sense to as at least part of the scoping to look at, you know, how we might maximize the opportunity in expanding, you know, new recreation infrastructure for the city, like, can we do you think it makes sense as we’re talking to the public, not just about, you know, another indoor recreation building, but could we think about things like, you know, the, the new Another outdoor pool as part of this scoping? I think we try other other things. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:35
And, you know, the, the rec center next month will be 20 years old. And in there may be a reinvestment that we need to do there also to kind of polish it up a little bit, if you will. But I don’t think that we should limit ourselves just to a conversation about a new rec center. I think that’s probably all of our priorities. But what are we going to do a centennial, and in the master plan, it talks about converting that from a swimming pool facility into more of a community center where the area where the pool is, is exactly the same size as to full court basketball courts. You know, there’s the possibly the renovation of sunset, the addition of another large outdoor pool, like, I think we should not narrow our conversation too much that maybe it can all happen at once, but that we talked about the full need of what our community is interested in.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:55
That mean, you’re gonna say something?
Unknown Speaker 1:08:58
Yeah, I guess the question is, is anyone on the board believe that there isn’t a need for more recreational facilities in the city before we put together a motion for it, which I think is our next step. But I’d like to hear somebody if somebody believes that we have more than enough doesn’t seem to be this way from being on the board, but they like to listen to a contrarian that there’s a contrarian on it on the board first.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:31
And it’s okay to have that opinion. We would like everybody to just share what their think their thoughts are that that’s a great point, Scott.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:41
I’m not raising my hand to say that we don’t need it. I’m raising my hand to add to what you’re all saying. But I think we do need more. Can I chime in? I didn’t seem like anyone had a a dissenting vote towards increasing rec centers. Is that a right page?
Unknown Speaker 1:09:59
Yeah, Hold on
Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
that thing that Scott just said, I mean, I guess all I wanted to know, and this is maybe directed to Jeff is like sunset, for example, if a bill if a or quail, if a facility just needs to be updated. There’s some form of prison budget or things like that, that are incremental, like repairs and things like that, as opposed to taking Centennial and converting it to a basketball court. That would be a, a shift of what the facility is meant for, like, there must be a budget for both quail and sunset to keep it running, right, or is that not true?
Unknown Speaker 1:10:33
Yeah, there is a budget. But I think that part of what I’m talking about is at the Rec Center, not only paint, but one of the things we’d like to do in the pool area, is replace the water slides, we’d like to add a new, larger water feature for the younger kids, the smaller slide, you know, updating the climbing wall, all of those things that are beyond what we have in our operating budget to do.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:10
So are you suggesting there’s some sort of I mean, this is not a full master plan, but some sort of like, proposal for the whole portfolio of rec centers, that would be like, change Centennial and update sunset to do X and Jameson Quayle to do this. And also, here’s this amazing new facility. And you’re suggesting that’s one proposal?
Unknown Speaker 1:11:31
Yeah. And certainly it doesn’t mean that we would go forward with all of them. We have all the information. I think we want the city administration and council to have the full picture for them to be able to make the decision on what does or doesn’t go on ballot question.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:51
Do you imagine I’m sorry, I’m having this conversation. But I do imagine that for Quayle, for example, you listed some ideas? Do you feel like it’s this board’s place to to brainstorm on our own ideas that we think we should add? Or is that feel like something that staff already has, and it would be more of a you presenting? These are the things that we’d like to include in a upgrade to quail? Is that more of the direction you would imagine it would go?
Unknown Speaker 1:12:15
But it could be either way? I certainly would be interested in hearing the board’s feedback. I think the parameter I would say is it’s got to be within the envelope, we have a building, it wouldn’t be adding on, you know, another gym or anything like that.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:35
Any other comments or questions from the board? Minesh. So we
Unknown Speaker 1:12:40
already exercised few times and past the motion to go into that direction. I don’t think any one of them was against or any point was made against it. So I think we are following we’re going into the direction.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:01
I would like to announce that sometime soon. I’m going to have to help my daughter go to bed. So I would like to preemptively vote in favor of whatever motions we make. There enough of you that you don’t need my vote. I vote yes towards whatever we come up with as a group towards this. And I’ll be back as soon as I can. I’m not leaving yet. But I will have to leave in a few minutes.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:19
Well, I think it’d be ideal, some
Unknown Speaker 1:13:21
proposed language if you want to hear it, but I don’t want to cut off discussion.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:26
So I think it’s a probe more appropriate that Jeff is with us. If we’re gonna entertain a motion, I can
Unknown Speaker 1:13:35
tell you what I need to go and we can decide if we’re at a point and I won’t be gone for more than six minutes.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:42
Your daughter’s better than my son cuz he would never go to sleep that fast. Yeah. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:49
I’m just doing the I love you Good Night Part. It’s okay. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:55
Um, Nicholas, is there anything you want to add before we consider any emotion language? No, I’m
Unknown Speaker 1:14:04
excited that we’re revisiting it now. It feels like a more appropriate time to dive into this. One thing that I put in the in the next is certainly we want to, when we have these conversations about designing the Rec Center certainly want to make sure that it’s meeting the public needs, and is going to appeal to a wider group of folks. I think I also want to make sure that we’re, we’re thinking about the sustainability of it from a perspective of will it cover itself in terms of the revenue we’re generating from it, we’re able to cover the expenses of the meeting the facility, and that will might help us and at the valid site as well, because I think it will make it a more compelling offer. So one other thought I wanted to add to the mix. Other than that, is that
Unknown Speaker 1:14:59
so Can I respond to that page?
Unknown Speaker 1:15:01
Yeah. So I think it
Unknown Speaker 1:15:05
depends on where you draw the line of what we’re going to recover or not. I think the general operation of the facility will be recovered at 100% or greater. But that doesn’t include large replacement. So just a couple of years ago, we had to replace a HVAC unit at the Rec Center. That replacement was paid for out of the facility maintenance budget. So it would not cover those kind of things. But the cost of staff, the cost of you know, general maintenance, it would cover that utilities, but big items, it would not cover cover those. And what I would say we would propose is that, if we believe there’s going to be a shortcoming on the amount of money to maintain it, there would be some type of operational support we’d need to ask for, because it wouldn’t make sense to to build this brand new, beautiful building, and then we can’t afford to maintain it. So it would it would have to have a possibility of an additional or, yeah, additional tax to help pay for
Unknown Speaker 1:16:28
that. Okay, so I’ve just been
Unknown Speaker 1:16:40
trying to draft something we might quickly consider. Let me just read it and we can discuss the language. So the Parks and Recreation advisory board urges along that city council to prioritize near term action on the public scoping financial analysis and conceptual design needed to pursue expanded recreation facilities for the city. Further, we respectfully request a reply from the council regarding the status of this discussion.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:12
We can keep our not keep the last sentence, but just hoping to hear back.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:21
My thought is that they will get back to us I don’t think we need that. And, Tim, if if you could give your opinion about that.
Tim Waters 1:17:31
I can tell you first I understand I understand the reason for the sentence. Because not everybody feels like we always get back to them. But yeah, if you if you advance that motion, or you approve that motion in Jeff or David will get it through the channels and it’ll show before the council I have no doubt we’ll get back in and I would I would commit to you that I would I’ll do everything I can to make certain that that loop gets closed.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:03
Ah, great. So
Unknown Speaker 1:18:06
any, I was just trying to I really think one of the first key steps is going to be that public scoping so that any, you know, design and analysis and things can be focused on at least a better understanding of what the public need is now what the public wants now. So I tried to put those key elements in there but I’m open to any and all amendments to that language.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:36
Is there a way to share your screen so we can read it because I I was Yeah, sure that to see it myself.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:42
He didn’t memorize it while I was saying it. Yeah, let me move it back over.
Unknown Speaker 1:19:22
Thank you and
Unknown Speaker 1:19:34
I find that very well done brief and to the point and if I add anything else, it would just be repeating phrases over again, which feels a little bit insulting. So I think you’re good the way it is, you know, it leaves us a lot of open room. You know, and staff for that matter, Jeff and David about How to proceed, you know, getting public opinion, et cetera, et cetera, where and it shows I think that Prabhas a board is excited and ready to get going. I, I feel like that’s, that’s where I’m at all those things. And I feel like hearing the discussion, most of us are all that way too. So nicely done is my
Unknown Speaker 1:20:23
summary that, and then Nicole. My only my only question
Unknown Speaker 1:20:33
is, can we? I mean, is it appropriate to add? Or should we add that, that the members have probably already believed that the need exists? Right. So we’re urging city council to, to scope the, you know, do the public scoping for what the actual building will look like. But I really like to, I’d like to convey, we’ve heard from the public, over and over again, kind of like what Jeff was saying earlier, like two or three years ago, and to now we constantly hear the public wants this, what it looks like and what shape it takes, or whatever seems to be the detail in the process. But I’d like to that helps with urgency. Council, making a decision or helping to advance it at all. That would be my two cents.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:38
I don’t want to cut this off, but I need to leave for a few minutes. So I’m happy to let you all talk and I can come back and join the conversation. I don’t know. Is it a rush to vote right now? Why don’t why doesn’t the group talk a little more, and I’ll be back in five minutes. And then that way we can all be in? Is that scene better?
Unknown Speaker 1:21:53
Sorry. Is that okay? Okay, I’ll be back. Well wait for you the weather.
Unknown Speaker 1:22:07
I mean, I’m trying to maybe incorporate that because I do think it is. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:22:16
I think that looks great. I think something on that would be great. other board members can chime in whether you think that’s too heavy handed but or it’s already assumed in the original.
Unknown Speaker 1:22:52
Any detail we request instead of we requests Ah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:22:58
I hate typos. So thank you
Unknown Speaker 1:23:02
it’s fun watching you work this is great
Unknown Speaker 1:23:12
Unknown Speaker 1:23:13
that gives anyone any concern I thought
Unknown Speaker 1:23:24
this might be just nitpicky but, um, I just think that the the word believes is kind of a soft software to do it. That should be more like, in our opinion, it’s kind of a weak way to say as opposed to we urgently request this right. Just more like a tone kind of
Unknown Speaker 1:23:43
thing. Just my, my two cents on that I’m reading I’m trying to think how to
Unknown Speaker 1:24:02
Yeah, otherwise I like to clear and concise messages, especially the how the last sentence.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:09
I think urgently is the tone we are sitting there
Unknown Speaker 1:24:25
I think that urgently
Unknown Speaker 1:24:27
need maybe offset the softness of the bullies.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:32
Yeah. Correct. Oh, you’re back. That was fast.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:52
I’ve been told there may be one more. Goodbye Good night in a moment, but I’m only staying here.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:57
Tim Waters 1:25:00
Yeah, I don’t know, you’re gonna, you’ll do what you want to do at this. At the in that first part of the of the paragraph two is I think this is an accurate statement based on what you’ve heard, or the input you’ve received from the community or from the public. You’ve concluded that this should be an urgent consideration or urgently considered what you know, you’ll work out the language. But I do think it’s meaningful, especially based on what Scott he reflected on the all the input you’ve had. And I have no doubt that’s true. Since the the disappointment with the ballot question a couple of years ago, three years ago, but if you can ground your recommendation in, in public input, or what you’ve heard from the public, I think it strengthens the recommendation.
Unknown Speaker 1:25:55
So then you could switch believes now to concludes Yeah,
Tim Waters 1:25:59
rather than a belief it’s a conclusion based on the input. That’s great. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:26:03
I agree. Good feedback.
Unknown Speaker 1:26:07
Either, so tend to conclude or nodding.
Unknown Speaker 1:26:11
Yeah, I like includes, but the basting is a stop is a stop entry as well. So
Unknown Speaker 1:26:24
for in large part,
Unknown Speaker 1:26:26
just based on public feedback, that
Unknown Speaker 1:26:30
all right, yeah, like my qualifier?
Unknown Speaker 1:26:33
No, let’s go for the gusto. I mean, that’s part of our board. Purpose was we are public and we know folks who are public. So this is what we do.
Unknown Speaker 1:26:54
Okay. So then, did
Unknown Speaker 1:27:00
you have another comment? Or do you just have your hands still raised?
Tim Waters 1:27:05
Now I just don’t know when to pull my hand down, sir.
Unknown Speaker 1:27:15
All right. If this looks
Unknown Speaker 1:27:18
okay, I would accept a motion to in this regard. Dan,
Unknown Speaker 1:27:24
I moved at the prab board accepts this, I guess a letter to the city council or whatever statement to the city council that we approved this and present it to city council.
Unknown Speaker 1:27:45
Okay. Are you secondary?
Unknown Speaker 1:27:48
Absolutely. Second that wholeheartedly? And I’m excited.
Unknown Speaker 1:27:52
All right. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Great. Motion passes.
Unknown Speaker 1:28:07
You’re our delivery vehicle.
Unknown Speaker 1:28:09
Yes. Could you send that to David and I? That statement? Yes. Yep. Thank you, everybody.
Unknown Speaker 1:28:18
Happy to? Great.
Unknown Speaker 1:28:22
Well, I look forward to many more conversations about this.
Unknown Speaker 1:28:27
Thanks. To and then one or two conversations of passes. We’re done. Come on.
Unknown Speaker 1:28:34
Yeah, it’s only
Unknown Speaker 1:28:38
Unknown Speaker 1:28:41
Any other discussion before we move to items from the packet? Okay, anyone have questions or items they’d like clarification from, from what was included in the packet?
Unknown Speaker 1:28:57
Okay, seeing none, items from staff
Unknown Speaker 1:29:16
so you had made the suggestion about a retreat? Is that something we should add on the agenda for next month? Or do you want to talk about that at all this evening, if there’s even any interest in that?
Unknown Speaker 1:29:33
I was gonna bring that up under my items from board but I don’t mind whenever
Unknown Speaker 1:29:45
Unknown Speaker 1:29:46
Is it okay if I wait until I’m from board?
Unknown Speaker 1:29:50
Okay. I don’t have anything else.
Unknown Speaker 1:29:52
Any items from staff, David, Steve, Kathy, anything
Unknown Speaker 1:30:02
Nothing here. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:30:04
Okay. Okay. I am kind of bored. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:30:12
I like the item that you just mentioned. And I was gonna chime in on that. When do you want to say your idea? Or does it? Does it count that you already said it?
Unknown Speaker 1:30:21
About the retreat? Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 1:30:22
have an idea for retreat. I guess I’ll just I’ll just say it like, this is the reason I wanted to be on the board, what we just talked about, and rather than visiting a, an outdoor facility like weed or a variety of outdoor resource like we did last time, we could say, well, let’s visit one of one month’s recreation facilities. But my idea is, what if we visited other local recreation facilities that are not part of Longmont? Like, for example, the apex center down in Arvada, that’s amazing, or I don’t know of all of them. But like, maybe that would be a great opportunity to do some fact finding, I’m jumping the gun. I’m like, Oh, we’re doing this. And that was her focusing on what we want to see the next interview. But that’s just an idea. And we don’t need to do that. I’m just saying it because I thought of it just now. And that’s
Unknown Speaker 1:31:05
kind of what I do.
Unknown Speaker 1:31:08
I like it, I might put it in more in the field trip category, though.
Unknown Speaker 1:31:13
I got confused, I confuse field trip with retreat. Sorry. But I mean, we could have a retreat where we, we do some design thinking or something fun like that. related to what we envision the Rec Center, we can each bring ideas, kind of similar to the game that Jeff was describing with the cards. That would be a fun retreat. Also, sorry, I confused the field trip with the retreat.
Unknown Speaker 1:31:36
Unknown Speaker 1:31:37
quickly, it just, I put the retreat idea out there, just because I personally would really like the opportunity to just learn more about some of the topics but, um, before us, and we don’t necessarily have time to dig into them. And I know, counsel, for example, has study sessions, you know, where they can get together and have presentations or learn about topics without having the sort of formality of I mean, we would still have to have it as a public meeting, but not having the formality of like Bodie voting and, you know, like a business agenda and things like that. So I was thinking it would be a good opportunity for us to invite in staff or speakers or, you know, just to learn about some of the topics. So, I’d love to hear if anyone else thinks that’s a good idea, because if not, we can just push it to the side. idea, or idea though, Jeff? Yeah. Go ahead, Scott. Sorry.
Unknown Speaker 1:32:37
Oh, no, I was just chiming in that saying that. I’m all for that idea. I love learning more about different aspects that we’re talking about, because a lot of times we just kind of mentioned them. So.
Unknown Speaker 1:32:56
Any other thoughts? On the
Unknown Speaker 1:32:58
retreat idea? Should we flesh that out a little bit more and bring it up next time?
Unknown Speaker 1:33:07
Yeah, David, and David, and I can talk about it. And in present next month, more, more specifics of of types of things or topics that we could talk about that what I think helped the conversation.
Unknown Speaker 1:33:24
And that would just add page that I think that you guys have a pretty engaged staff that we’re dealing with. And so we can probably talk for a lot of time about each of our individual niches within this department, it could go on for a couple of days, they can go to Breckenridge and get, you know, get a conference room, that sort of thing. But, but, ya know, I think whatever you guys want to hear about, we would be pretty entertained, to try to stretch that out for as long as you want to hear about it. So. David,
Unknown Speaker 1:33:56
I was just gonna say, Steve, basically, did I think staff is fully willing to open up and have longer conversations. Thanks. Sometimes when we get a question from staff in this forum, I almost feel like we just cut them off with this short because of the time piece, we could dig a little deeper, I think staff would appreciate that. And if we feel like we do a better job of explaining it, and then we could even leave some homework at that point. So I just so you know, staff is I think we’re very supportive of that idea.
Unknown Speaker 1:34:22
I really appreciate that. And we do feel lucky to have great staff that work with our board. Any other items from the board? You guys got all your conversation out about the Rec Center? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:34:46
Well, I hope this is the right forum, but I’m reading David’s update and then right after it was Dan’s update, and what I noticed was that in David’s the same six or similar six, park and trail development items are there? It looks like it’s Kathy, Kathy, Steve, Steve, Steve,
Unknown Speaker 1:35:09
Unknown Speaker 1:35:11
I know that you guys are busy as heck. You’ve told us that before Steve. But then I noticed on the next page, Dan, got to hire two new people. And I wonder, is that something we should be involved in as a board? And you’re encouraging the city to get you guys more resources? Or is this out of our purview? I’ll,
Unknown Speaker 1:35:36
I’ll use this as kind of a I’ll jump right in, I think. So. I’ve been very tentative and trying to use his board to try to get certain things for the staff. But I think this board and being with it now, five years, and knowing that it’s pretty obvious, as you look at our work plans, and what you think it needs to move us forward. I think having those conversations are important pieces, I think there’s no way that I could sit here and talk to this board and say that we have a work plan that we know we’re behind on. And there’s no way we can do that without getting additional staffing help move that forward. Or help be more honest with this board and say the work plan probably needs to reflect what we really can get done. So. I guess what I’m gonna say with that is this board is I think, smart enough and aware enough and has the information laid out there to try to say if we’d like to move things forward, there are certain resources that we could probably use. And I’m, I’m happy to have those conversations. And I think just read this packet, you get that you get that information. And I think that’s beneficial. The piece I will tell you though, is that in Dan’s world and open space, you’re not really competing with the general fund. So that’s the piece to this, you look at Kent use it in my Water Resources Group, Dan, in the open space, we have a fund that your community has dedicated funds to say we think these are important areas. And we need to have dedicated funds to make sure we can purchase, maintain and manage those done the same thing with our Parks program. But again, we’re going as Steve said earlier, we’re competing with fire and police and other general fun items out there. So it really can have your voice sort of silenced as you kind of it gets muted as you get those bigger conversations. So I think any chance we get for the community to weigh in on how they think moving forward with these projects is important is an opportunity for our community kind of help us move forward. So
Unknown Speaker 1:37:28
I don’t mean, I’m not trying to complain. I know that either. So I want to help is the bottom line and how
Unknown Speaker 1:37:38
I think I just wanted to add, I think David had a good segue into what I was thinking. I recall working with the board, when we did the Parks, Recreation and trails master plan back in 12 2013 ish. But one really great educational exercise that the board asked was they wanted to really understand all of the funding sources in the city’s budget, especially related to parks, open space, recreation and trails and just understand kind of what David David walked you through the whys of why can we fund this? And why can’t we fund that and kind of the history of that. So that might be something educational that you might be interested in. I thought it was really beneficial. When we worked with them. on that. There’s an appendix in the current master plan that kind of has it all lined out if you’re interested.
Unknown Speaker 1:38:38
I will also note that on our calendar for March in conjunction with the capital improvement projects, there’s a little bullet that says capacity and staffing needs in recreation parks and open space. So I’m hoping that you guys will share with us sort of any, any capacity gaps that you see that, you know, we might want to consider in whatever way is appropriate.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:03
Thank you. I missed that page. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:15
Any other items on the board? Okay. There’s nothing else. I think we’re ready. It would turn. I need a motion to adjourn the meeting. That
Unknown Speaker 1:39:40
I would gladly make a motion to adjourn this meeting. Thank you. I’ll second.
Unknown Speaker 1:39:46
Yeah, that’s right. All those in favor? Aye. All right,
Unknown Speaker 1:39:57
motion passes and the meeting is adjourned.