City Council Regular Session – March 8, 2022

Video Description:

City Council Regular Session – March 8, 2022

Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

Read along below or follow along here:

Unknown Speaker 0:03
And we’re good to go.

Unknown Speaker 0:05
Thank you. Good evening everyone and welcome. I now called March 8 2022, to Longmont City Council regular session to order these meetings are still being held remotely due to the ongoing novel Coronavirus pandemic, to view the live stream go to Longmont forward slash agendas or to the city’s YouTube channel. You can also watch it on the Longmont public channel. Or Comcast channels eight or 880. Can we please start with the roll call?

Unknown Speaker 0:40
Absolutely. Mayor Peck, present. Councilmember Duggal Ferring. Here, Councilmember Martin, present. Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez Here. Councilmember waters here. Thank you, Councilmember Yarborough. Err. Mayor, you have a quorum.

Unknown Speaker 1:02
Thank you. Can we all sit for the Pledge of Allegiance please. So, um, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States, America into riches one nation under

Unknown Speaker 1:22
God, indivisible, with liberty

Unknown Speaker 1:26
and justice for all.

Unknown Speaker 1:30
Thank you. As a reminder to the public, anyone wishing to provide public comment during public invited to be heard, must watch the live stream of the meeting and call in only when I open the meeting for public comment. callers are not able to access the meeting at any other time. Anyone wishing to provide comment on second reading, or public hearing items should call in it’s that time and not during first call public invited to be heard. Anyone calling during first call public invited to be heard. With comments about second reading or public hearing items will be asked to call back in when second reading and public hearing items are announced. You’ll see on the screen now the instructions for calling in to provide public comment. The toll free number is 888-788-0099. Watch for the instructions to be displayed to be displayed and write down the meeting ID what it is displayed at the beginning of the meeting. Wait for the mayor to open public comment and direct callers to call in. When I say to call in dial the toll free number into the meeting ID and when asked for your participation ID press the pound sign. Please mute the live stream when you call in and listen for instructions on the phone. callers will be called upon by the last three digits of their phone number. And Comments are limited to three minutes per person. Each speaker must state their name and address for the record prior to proceeding with their comments. Once you’re done speaking, just hang up. So thank you for putting that on the screen Dallas. We now have to two meetings to approve the minutes of the February 8 2022 regular session meeting minutes. Can I have a motion to approve those minutes?

Tim Waters 3:25
I’ll move approval of the February 8 night 2022 minutes.

Unknown Speaker 3:30
Thank you Councillor waters Do I have a second? Second? Thank you, Councillor Yarborough. So the February 8 minutes have been Moved by Councillor waters seconded by Councillor Yarborough. All those in favor? Please raise your hand. All those opposed? Thank you That passes unanimously. May I have a motion to move the February 22 2022 regular session minutes.

Unknown Speaker 3:54
I’ll move approval those as well. Thank you a second. I’ll second that.

Unknown Speaker 4:05
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t see you fast enough. That was seconded by Councillor Hidalgo, fairing. All those in favor please raise your hand for passing.

Unknown Speaker 4:14
All those opposed.

Unknown Speaker 4:18
Was that an opposition? Councillor Martin? No. Okay, that passes unanimously. So we we are at the city manager’s report. Harold, do you have anything for us today?

Unknown Speaker 4:34
Mayor council have a couple of things. One, I wanted to let you know that if you saw the presentation that maraca forwarded to you all, we have dropped the heart below the high transmission rate and we’re pretty close to move into the to the yellow line. So that’s aligning with the Euro the council direction to go back at the end of the month. So I just wanted to clarify that. In the midst of everything that’s been going on, we have been working on the the task force for attainable housing, you all may have seen that as a line item that I listed in the information I sent to you all. And looking at that direction. I put together a group, some recommendations, you know, representation from large business banking and finance, Small Business and service industry, housing impacted residents, developers, builders, education, employers, and then a representative from the LDP board. Just to let you know, I’m going to be bringing this to you all on the 29th. But the one question that I have for you that wasn’t really clear in the motion, was how you wanted to approach appointing the task members, the task force members, I can bring that to where I can bring options for council to do it, we can bring it where we can LIKE IT staff doing it, I can bring you all of those options as I’m pulling that together. But that just wasn’t really clear in that motion. And I wanted to get some direction from council before I bring that back on the 29th.

Unknown Speaker 6:17
Thank you, Harold, a counselor, Hidalgo. Ferry, you are the one that made that motion. Would you like Do you have any input on how these are going to be appointed?

Unknown Speaker 6:28
Um, you know, I, I do trust staff. But, uh, you know, I guess ideally, what I would like to see is a, just a compilation of who you’ve have selected for, for us to to review. So if there are extra people that maybe you think, you know, we need to make a decision on. Um, you know, that that can definitely happen. But, you know, I know it’s very hard to to collect, find people committed to doing this and having the time. So I think, you know, once we have them once they agree to it. You know, I would, I would think was, let’s take what we what we have?

Unknown Speaker 7:08
Does that make sense? Aaron? Is me coming forward with the recommendation of people?

Unknown Speaker 7:12
Yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 7:16
Do we have any other comments from counselors on how you would like this to proceed? Counselor waters?

Tim Waters 7:23
Just to clarify, here, I was going to put together the the taskforce membership? And are we going to bless that or simply be informed? So I personally, I don’t mean to, I trust y’all to put together the right kind of group attack. I’m happy. I’d like to be informed about who’s on it. I don’t feel the need to vote on this. I guess that’s my point. Okay, it would be nice to be clear what, what we’re what direction we’re giving the city manager?

Unknown Speaker 7:58
Um, yeah, I would just like I would like to be informed. Now in the event, you have a lot of people and you need our help with kind of narrowing the list down. You know, I want to keep that open. But in the end, I think, you know, I would like to just be informed of who’s

Unknown Speaker 8:16
who all that helps. I just was I didn’t want to come back with not not bringing what council wanted. So I will build that out with with the names of based on what I see. When I bring that to you on the 20.

Unknown Speaker 8:29
Are there any other discussions by the counselors that have weighed in on this? Do we all agree that that is the direction we want to give Harold? Okay. Harold, do you have your direction?

Unknown Speaker 8:41
Thank you, sorry for bringing this up. That was just the gap that I needed to clear up. So I appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 8:46
Oh, I’m glad you did. Thank you. Yes, I

Unknown Speaker 8:51
think we need to go back to item five agenda revisions, motions to drag.

Unknown Speaker 8:55
Oh, thank you for that we do. Are there any agenda revisions that counselors would like to ask our city manager to put on a future agenda and I do see Councillor Hidalgo fairing and councillor yarborough’s Hands up. So we’ll go with Hidalgo fairing first.

Unknown Speaker 9:15
Thank you, Mayor. So for this, you know, I’d like to make a motion to direct staff to research neighboring cities to find out how they’re utilizing human relations Commission’s to address community needs in regard to equity, diversity and inclusion and bring back their findings and recommendations that would help that would best align with what we set our priorities back in the I believe it was the 2020 retreat February retreat on what our priorities were in regard to social equity. Do I have a second and then I can speak to my to my motion?

Unknown Speaker 9:57
I can Okay,

Unknown Speaker 10:01
motions been made by Councillor Hidalgo fairing and seconded by Councillor Yarborough. So we open it up for discussion, Councillor Hidalgo, fairing Are you ready to explain your motion?

Unknown Speaker 10:12
Yeah, so I know that staff and I’ve had several conversations with different members of staff in regard to equity and the equity work that the that the city is doing, and that we have essentially, you know, during our retreat that we had said that we we value we want to prioritize this work in, in setting policy and practices. So, you know, I feel like this is the first of many action states steps that council as a whole should be adopting and should be moving forward so that we can create truly create a an equitable

Unknown Speaker 10:52
inclusionary. Community.

Unknown Speaker 10:59
Do I have a discussion from any other councillors? County, Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez.

Unknown Speaker 11:08
Thank you, Mayor Peck. I’ve had similar conversations myself, and I’ve gone back and forth with those folks. And, you know, also myself in pondering the question of whether it’s most effective to have that be enfolded within city, or have it be kind of an independent third party that has city representation on it. And so I kind of think it might be the most equitable if the city does not actually do any of the appointing, and things like that, not adding that to say, Help Council appoints advisory boards and commissions and things and letting it be somewhat of a self appointing board. But also making sure that we have representation on it and that it does it directly advise City Council. Those were some of my ideas when I have had this similar discussion with with stakeholders. And so you know, those are I guess, my two cents, and glad to hear other feedback.

Unknown Speaker 12:16
And I just asked a question a mere protium of are you talking about a board on social equity? Or are you a little confused about that? Sure,

Unknown Speaker 12:30
it sounded to me that the the motion was concerning a board. So that’s what I thought we were talking about.

Unknown Speaker 12:39
Okay, I have Councillor Martin, and then Councillor waters, counselor, Barton.

Unknown Speaker 12:45
Um, my concern is that we have just received a very long list of items that the staff is already engaged in. And I have a personal concern that we must go faster. You know, that’s my little mantra. And every board that I sit on, has already incorporated the equity lens into its policies and procedures, and are making it buddy based recommendations to the city now. So I question whether the there is a need for this board? And if so, I would like to understand better what it would do that we are not already doing.

Unknown Speaker 13:33
Thank you, Councillor waters?

Tim Waters 13:38
Yeah, just what I heard the motion to be was to direct staff to conduct research. And in whether or not there’s a board, independent third party, whoever would be maybe the product of what the findings are, their recommendation. So just to be clear, we’re not talking about appointing boards, who appoints boards, are we that’s not in the motion, the motion was to direct staff to do research. It wasn’t time bound. It wasn’t a Date Specific. And this and the staff could very well turn to elnec, I assume, to elicit Elmax talent and expertise to do that, to assist in that kind of research. I assume the staff could do that any way they want to approach it. Just to be clear on what the motion is and when we’d be voting on it. Somebody just maybe counselor, counselor, Council Member, Duggal fairing district could clarify.

Unknown Speaker 14:30
Yes, I I’d be happy to and then so. Okay, so I look at what the charge of L Mac and the work they do and how they are their volunteers. So I start thinking about you know, the their background in and there might be people who are already on L Mac who decide, You know what, I want to be a part of a greater work that looks more in depth in policy and practices and I I have the background and expertise, and then they can definitely apply or, or pursue that route. But what I see Elmax focusing on and what they do is huge work, it is around cultural engagement, it is around education, and, you know, more of a community building and, and sharing out of culture and diversity in more of a, I don’t want to say a social network, but But definitely, you know, hitting those events and, and making sure the representation is there and voices are heard that word is totally different from looking at policy and practices. And so I go back to what my I know, as a member of the Equity Council, or ethnic minority Advisory Council for the Colorado Education Association, where we actually delved in and looked at policy are our organization’s bylaws, the practices interactions, and then we went through it with not just an equity lens, but we also have the educational background that backed up, you know, just like we have experts in planning and development, you know, making those decisions in the planning and development. board and commission.

Unknown Speaker 16:17
Thank you for that

Unknown Speaker 16:19
looking at somebody who has that expertise. But before I even go on to that piece, do I Is it time? Yeah, it really is. Okay. Because I could I could go on forever in a day. But I know Harold also had some input as well.

Unknown Speaker 16:32
So before Councillor waters, I call on you again, I would like to just give my perspective on this motion. What I am seeing the research for is to how, how do other cities embed equity in everything they do? What are their practices? And how do they make it work? That would be the research I would be interested in, so that we’re not just paying lip service to equity. We’re actually embedding it in our work. So Councillor waters.

Tim Waters 17:08
Thanks for PAC. I wasn’t making a case around that. I was just suggesting they might be able to help whoever’s going to do the research. I was just curious to hear again, what the motion is. And I appreciate councilmember Hidalgo fairing all that experience, but I’m still not certain what the motion motion is. I wasn’t hearing it that it is to appoint boards. No, it is to do research. And then the staff would decide how to how to proceed with that research. Is that is that the motion? That

Unknown Speaker 17:33
was my motion? If you want I can repeat it. Would you just repeat,

Unknown Speaker 17:36
repeat the motion? And then if we have no one else, we’re going to go ahead and vote on okay.

Unknown Speaker 17:42
So my motion is to direct staff to conduct research in neighboring cities to find out how they’re utilizing a Human Relations Commission to address community needs in regard to equity, diversity and inclusion and bring back findings and recommendations that will best align with our priorities on social equity.

Unknown Speaker 18:07
Would you accept a friendly amendment to that as an inclusion? I guess?

Unknown Speaker 18:14
I would like to hear it first. Of course.

Unknown Speaker 18:20
Social Equity, you know that to me that term? Doesn’t Is it far enough in that how do we actually use this in our policy decisions? How is it embedded in everything we do? And perhaps you said that but is that what you’re implying in your statement?

Unknown Speaker 18:42
Yes, I am. So if you better wordsmith

Unknown Speaker 18:48
I just want to make sure that we understand. So we’re going to go ahead and vote on this. I’m going to hopefully restate this correctly. And that the motion is to direct staff to do research on other cities on how they incorporate social equity into their work the decisions that they make it does that cover it one moment Councillor Martin I will call on you.

Unknown Speaker 19:22
So how they’re utilizing specifically human relations Commission’s Okay, thank you address community needs. Alright, bar to equity, diversity, inclusion and bring back findings and recommendations. And perhaps we could just

Unknown Speaker 19:36
stop there. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 19:38
Thank you, Councillor Martin, your fell? That

Unknown Speaker 19:40
was actually my question because I kept hearing there’s not a commission on them that there that this does lead to a commission and I would like clarification as to whether the intent is that it leads to the creation of such a commission in Longmont or not.

Unknown Speaker 19:58
Okay, one last comment please.

Unknown Speaker 20:01
It may or it may not. But I really want to focus looking at is the commission route the route we want to go? Or in their research? Are they finding other avenues that that cities address that? You know, I’ve done my own research, and I’m seeing that there are more and more human relations Commission’s that are addressing these issues. So I want to start with that. But I want to see here the findings. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 20:30
So all those in favor of this motion, please raise your hand. All those opposed? So this passes unanimously. Is this motion clear to staff? It is, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 20:49
you know, what I was gonna say is, I know, there was something about the the work component of this, I wanted to also say that we’re also members of the local and regional government Alliance on race and equity. And that’s a group that does a lot of this work. So much of this, we’re going to reach out to folks that have probably already done it, to help us pull that together. So I wanted to address that point in that, because of what we’ve been doing internally, as an organization, we have those connection points.

Unknown Speaker 21:19
Perfect. Thank you, Harold. Councillor Yarbro, you also wanted to direct staff.

Unknown Speaker 21:28
If you may, or pick, mine isn’t as mine is very simple. So. So um, as you all know, I have mentioned before at one of our last city council meetings where during the presentation from city manager, the main guy Dominguez on the workplace of the of the future, and I had brought up an idea of an internship, where we will grow our own staff. So I met with members of the Chamber of Commerce and Sandy cedar, to brainstorm about how this would look. And we started looking at an outline and everything. So as there is definitely an interest in partnering. I would like to work on this. And I would like to make a motion to ask staff to bring an outline for a program that we could consider.

Unknown Speaker 22:32
In the motion, counselor Yarborough, when you say an outline, can you specify what that outline would be for? Well, when

Unknown Speaker 22:41
I present this to you, and when we talk about it, I want to be able to be able to make sure that it will be clear as how it would this program will function. This internship will function. I’m sorry, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker 22:57
No, I’m trying to get the motion clear. outline for an internship.

Unknown Speaker 23:04
Yeah. Internship Program. With the city

Unknown Speaker 23:09
and is the internship program for to train staff or elected officials.

Unknown Speaker 23:20
Staff? No. Oh, okay.

Unknown Speaker 23:22
I got it. Okay. Thank you. Do I have a second for that motion? The motion is to direct staff to bring back an outline for internship within the city councilor Hidaka fairing

Unknown Speaker 23:41
I will second it only because I want to, I want to I guess I want to know more. As far as you know, the time the timing. Is this something that could be you know, move down the line. You know, I guess I just want to hear more about what this program is about. So really, I’ll second it for debate.

Unknown Speaker 24:01
Okay, so it has been the motion has been brought by Councillor Yarborough and seconded by Councillor Hidalgo fairing open it up for discussion. Councillor waters?

Unknown Speaker 24:15
Thanks, Mayor pack.

Tim Waters 24:19
When we received the report or the update from Joanne on the work she and a number of working groups are doing under the kind of the heading of workforce of the future. That is in that context of that presentation that the discussion occurred about internships, as I recall, and I’m not opposed at all to the idea of internships. I think it’d be terrific to have internships, but it seems to me that the staff has got a number of moving parts in the context of that work. And I’m not certain Well, I am certain that I’m not comfortable in asserting us as moving something in that body of work higher on the list or lower on the list. I think that I think the staff is keenly aware of what the challenges are and what needs to happen, if that’s one of the things that they’re going to bring to us as a policy consideration as opposed to an operational concern, which it seems to me it is more of an operational concern. They can do that. But I, for us to start meddling, or I don’t mean that I don’t mean that pejoratively, to, to actively participating in setting priorities in the context of that work of one thing over another, I think is either premature or really not our role. So I’m not I’m not listen to the other discussion here. But it does seems not to meet that be something we we direct as a council we receive and then decide, you know, what, what are the recommendations, we’re going to get in the context of all that work that we’d have a chance to vote on?

Unknown Speaker 25:50
Thank you, Councillor waters. Councillor Martin?

Unknown Speaker 25:55
Thank you, Mayor Peck, I have a similar concern, having having just reviewed the list that the city manager brought to all of us. And frankly, I’m a little boggled by it, because we have so much work to do. And it seems to me like an internship program, given the effort that Moses put in, you know, in the last six weeks or so, it seems that what we should be doing is that that is part of the budget process, we should should consider, they will automatically create internship positions, if that seems to be appropriate. And I wouldn’t want to put any, any any loading on the work plan before that point. So unless there is a special purpose for it, I don’t think that we need to give specific direction

Unknown Speaker 26:56
on it. Thank you, Councillor

Unknown Speaker 26:58
waters. Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez.

Unknown Speaker 27:02
Thank you very much. You know, I’m I know that the city does do IGA s and whatnot, with other organizations for internships. And I think it’d be a net benefit to the city to look at internship program. But as councilmember Martin noted, this probably will take it budgetary Act, as in, you know, identifying a staff person to run an internship program. And so I know that the the budgets while we look at them later on in the year, they get submitted early in the year. And so I would hope that there would maybe be somebody in the staff, or, you know, I’d be open to saying that staff should look at adding a budgetary item for an internship program, because I do agree that not just for maybe some equity purposes, but the way our current political situation is going, it’s hard to get very good and talented and qualified people that want to do this kind of work for the pay, which is, you know, in Longmont, at least it’s around market. But still, you know, we need to do some recruitment into this kind of fieldwork, if you will, as far as administration, as far as public service is concerned. So I would want to say that the budget be looked at as maybe a possibility for a Internship Coordinator for the next year, not this year, obviously. And that gives plenty of time to look at all of the studies, look at things like that and really build this thing in a responsible and I guess, you know, well thought out manner. So I’d be open to supporting that conversation. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 29:16
counselor, Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez. Is that an amendment to the motion? Or is it a different avenue to look at it?

Unknown Speaker 29:27
I am not trying to make an amendment to the motion. I’m just strictly saying as far as a process is concerned. That to me seems to be the most logical way to move forward with trying to institute a new program. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 29:43
Is there any counselor Yarbro

Unknown Speaker 29:47
Thank you, Mayor Peck. Thank you for all of your comments. This internship program is exactly what we are. What I am looking for is a focus on recruitment. and exposing young people like some of our front range students who are already looking for internships, it would be nice to have a pipeline straight to the city. For those people who are looking for accounting jobs, for those people, there are so many different avenues that they can be work as an intern there. I know we do have some interns that within the city, but this internship is just different departments, and to provide more useful people, and recruitment for the workforce. workforce of the future program. And so this is just like, a supplement part of it, and those who may even think about wanting to be a future city council person. So they’re different. You know, we have talked through it and went through it, but it’s still we need to ask city staff, what would be more beneficial for them as well. So that’s what that’s the direction to have the future conversation on to add an agenda for a future meeting to put it on the agenda.

Unknown Speaker 31:09
Thank you for that clarification. Councillor Yarborough? Do we have any other discussion on this topic? Councillor Martin? You’re muted. You’re muted Mark Marsha.

Unknown Speaker 31:22
Yeah, thank you. I’m sorry, I’m neither for nor against doing it. I the reason that one of the reasons I would like to state that I was suggesting, rather than working as a separate program was just roll it into the staff budgeting, according to the recommendations that have already been had is I have a real strong objection to unpaid interns, and we don’t have any budget for interns right now. And I think that’s a real equity consideration is that there not be unpaid interns. So if we could clarify if we could clarify that that that this program comes, you know, in good time in terms of the staffing plan, as opposed to being a separate program, then I would support it. Otherwise, I don’t want it to displace anything else, because we’ve got some really heavy items on the plan already. So maybe the city manager could weigh in on whether that would you know whether that’s work or whether it belongs in the in the budgeting process, naturally anyway, or whether it should be considered as a separate program.

Unknown Speaker 32:39
So I think if this is something that let me back up a little bit. This is also something we’ve been talking about as staff, just because it is getting harder and harder. The number of people to kind of echo what Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez said, when you just look across municipalities across the nation. There are job openings all over the place. And we’re seeing different the pipeline of folks going into this, this profession is shifting on us pretty fast. And so we have talked about the need for that type of program as well. I’m a product of an internship program that was focused on what we’re doing Sandy, that’s actually how Sandy got here. They used to have year long internship programs. Obviously, it’s a different type, because the ones we were in were more focused on graduate level students in public administration, political science, things like that. But then they have different levels of this. And so if council wants us to look at that and look at funded internships, that is something that does need to be incorporated in the budget process, because we don’t necessarily have the funding now. So it would be something that we would evaluate, present to counsel and then make that as part of potentially the budget process because we would have to ensure that we have funds available for it. If that’s the motion, then I think that’s the path to move down on this one.

Unknown Speaker 34:09
Thank you, Harold. I am going to make a friendly amendment to your emotion to your motion. Counselor Yarbrough that we direct staff to put into the budget process this year, a program for funding for a funded internship program. Would you accept that amendment? Councillor Yarborough? Yes. I’ll accept that. So um, I think Councillor Hidalgo. fairing you seconded this motion. Would you like to second the amendment? Sure. Okay, thank you. All those in favor. Councillor waters, I see that you

Tim Waters 34:57
lie again. I just for the sake of clarity, the what were the direction is to bring us back in the context of budgeting? Correct, we would see a line item. And then whatever that format takes likely will be a product of the work that Joanne’s as and her working groups are already engaged in. Is that

Unknown Speaker 35:18
Yes, I would think so. And that would be heroes, because we are directing staff. So however, Harold city manager of sees that working that I, from my perspective, that’s what we would accept. So, I think that motion has been clarified all those in favor, please raise your hand. All those post? Thank you. Is that direction clear to staff? Great. That was a pretty good discussion. Um, so moving on. We don’t have any special reports and presentations right now we do at the end of the meeting. So this is now time for people to call in for public invited to be heard. The information is going to be displayed on the screen. Dallas, thank you. Please mute your live stream and dial in now. We’re going to take a five minute break to give everyone time to dial in.

Unknown Speaker 36:25
Thank you

Unknown Speaker 41:03
Mayor packing Council you’re about 30 seconds out from the five minute mark we

Unknown Speaker 41:13
so Dallas let’s wait let’s pull everybody in who is onboard everybody who’s waiting and then we’ll close it

Unknown Speaker 41:25
actually, everyone who wants to get into the waiting, let’s get them in and then close it

Unknown Speaker 41:36
may or if it’s all right, we’re gonna give just another moment. For Dallas. He’s having a little bit of a technical. Oh, challenge. We’ll give him just the people just another moment if that’s okay.

Unknown Speaker 41:46
Of course. Yeah, thank you

Unknown Speaker 42:18
so me I’m going to go ahead and admit all these people while Dallas’s computer actually, okay, went down. I’ll admit them so and let them know what’s happening as Dallas gets back on

Unknown Speaker 42:29
Hey, that sounds great.

Unknown Speaker 42:33
good evening to everybody joining for public invited to be heard. We will have just let you in the meeting. And we’ll be with you just a moment we will be calling on you by the last three digits of your phone number. And if you can mute the live stream that would be very helpful. listen through your phone. We’ll get going here in just a moment.

Unknown Speaker 43:23
Alright, Mayor, if you are ready, then I will see if I can multitask help Dallas here. So good. Very good. Thank you caller with the last three digits 042 Could you please unmute yourself star six and state your name and address for the record caller with last three digits 042? Color 042 I’m gonna ask you to unmute.

Unknown Speaker 44:13
Alright, can you hear me?

Unknown Speaker 44:14
We can hear you now.

Unknown Speaker 44:15
Like a Verizon. It’s like a Verizon commercial from the 1990s.

Unknown Speaker 44:19
Yeah. Thank you very much. Um, see your name aging

Unknown Speaker 44:23
Mariah Conroy for 17 Emery Street. Good evening, mayor and city council members. I did send you an email earlier today with my comments. Did you receive that Don Kitana forwarded it to you. So there’s more detail there. Okay. Very good. All right. Great. Well, it was great to be with long launches last night in person and hope to be with you in person again soon as well. It was a great meeting. And oh boy Third Street. Our local Thruway connecting east and west is a topic of much debate and passion. It was a wake up call for me though personally and hopefully to the city manager and the staff as well. While The conversation was mostly respectful and thoughtful. There were a lot of passions. The Third Avenue update project is not on good footing at this time. But we I do have every confidence that this can be solved with the city manager at the helm. I think we have an opportunity together to do this right. The surgery project became a project for what reason is not completely clear, nowhere on the Engage site, could I find this information well documented, no staff last night could articulate precisely how a few residents were able to convince the administrators and engineers that this there was a problem that could be fixed with a limited observations and goals. The third should project has become an example of how not to run a public process and does provide, you know, an opportunity to correct those and get back on proper footing. There’s a big, there’s a big learning there. And to me, the biggest thing is that the staff decided to not take this to the transportation advisory board. Had they done that the proper process would have been endeavored. And there would have been hopefully a workshop to brought people together to have worked through some of the issues that we’re seeing now. So that’s the main thing I would say I have some observations on the public process in general was in inadequate residents were not notified about the march 7 meeting until the fifth, most of them did not receive notification until the fifth of March. The signs for this project, that no parking signs in front of Westside Cafe were erected December 28. So almost a full three months prior to discussion with the public about this. So I believe that that you know, this was initiated without proper consideration. And you know, for pastor for the the historic or future plans. Notably, one thing was that the staff had just left just recently put up a sign to slow down traffic, just in that same block. And here we are removing the traffic that could have prevented some sort of a, a block to mitigation to the speeding traffic. So I, if I were in your seat, I would direct the city manager to provide a plan on how he’s going to get us back on track, I would look to build authentic transparency and run the process through the tab. I would press pause and remove the no parking signs immediately. It’s crushing a business while we figure out what the right solution is for you, Maria, and I know I’m out of time. And so thank you for being here and taking my comments.

Unknown Speaker 47:30
Thank you for your comments. Can we have the next color?

Unknown Speaker 47:35
Yes, I am back and I will happily get the next color color with the last three digits for two two color 422 If you would please hit star six to unmute. Hey there, can you hear us?

Unknown Speaker 47:53
Yeah. Can you hear me? Yes, we

Unknown Speaker 47:54
can. Thanks.

Unknown Speaker 47:55
Very good. Good evening, Mayor Mayor Pro Tem and council members. My name is Melissa Chopin, and I reside at 128 sombrero court in Lyons, Colorado. I am a landlord in Longmont and I’m here to ask you to consider tabling the the rental licensing issue that has been before us for quite a while. I’m speaking to you now. Because the several things have changed from the last time I talked about this. And I just wanted to alert you to the fact that I think this will increase a lot of costs for landlords. I’ve been looking at the median rents brought to you by hot pads. And the median rent for all of Boulder County for a two bedroom apartment is $2,100. The current median rent for an apartment in Longmont is $1,800. In Denver, which recently enacted rental licensing, their median rent is $2,400. And as I’m sure you’re well aware, we all are facing a lot of increased costs because of insurance, property taxes, materials and labor. One of the issues that council had, they did a survey I believe, and when I looked this over, it appeared to me that neither tenants nor landlords were in favor of this rental licensing program. The Council also wanted to know what kind of stock of rental housing that we have. And I hope you will consider pushing the crime free multi housing program, which gives you an idea of some of the rental stock. I also think you cannot contact the Boulder County Assessor or probably some real estate agents because I get things in my mailbox almost every day about somebody that wants to buy my properties. I do own eight buildings with 38 units. And so you know my median rent is $1,100. I’m trying to keep it that way for my two bedroom apartments. So I hope the other thing was about tenants being afraid to complain. I do see now, where online, if you just Google landlord Longmont, you get the city of Longmont website to come up. And so perhaps we can see more complaints and see if this is really an issue that we are faced with. I know Council has a lot of things in their lap. And affordable housing is a big one. And I hope I can continue to provide it and that you will vote no on the rental licensing program. Thank you for your time.

Unknown Speaker 50:33
Thank you, Melissa. All right.

Unknown Speaker 50:39
Perfect. And with that, we will go into color with the last three digits 499 Color 499 If you’d hit star six to unmute, please. Hey there, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear

Unknown Speaker 50:56
you. Great. All right. Thank you. This is dope Kelly a barberry drive. And May my remarks benefit all beings. To continue where I left off last time I spoke winning attorney on the recent eh t VS FCC case over outdated radio frequency guidelines. Daphna talk over said MICROWAVE SICKNESS is likely the most immediate and widespread manifestation of the adverse health effects from radiation emitted from wireless devices and infrastructure. At least 10% of the population has already developed symptoms, the rates are likely higher, and quote, as you already know, I am one of those statistics. As for the Smart Meter opt out, is it fair that people like me with EHS with a toxic response to things wireless should be forced to pay for protection against having a wireless meter? Or should people instead be given the choice to opt in with no cost to those who say no. I’d like to announce a virtual town hall meeting on smart meters with four international and local experts taking place next Tuesday, March 15. At 1pm. It is free and open to long lat residents and the public concerned with this topic. A replay will be available, it’s easy to attend, you just go to www dot smart meter And I’ll say it again. That’s www dot smart meter. Frank Clegg, the retired president of Microsoft, Canada and founder of Camp Canadians for safe technology, in February of this year had the following to say to the New Hampshire legislature about wireless infrastructure. I am one of the experts brought in for the 5g Commission investigation. I’ve met with scientific experts from around the world and if concluded wireless technology is not safe. I am especially concerned with 5g and the impact of wireless technologies on children. Clegg also made these footnoted points. Wireless technology is no longer advanced technology it has outlived its useful life as a main source of connectivity. Wired connectivity eliminates harmful radio frequency radiation, wired broadband is at least 100 times faster, more reliable and resilient and is far more protective of privacy than wireless connectivity. According to the IEEE wireless technologies consume at least 10 times more power than wired technologies. Greenpeace reports if the cloud were a country, it would be the fifth largest consumer of energy in the world. So tell me again, why are we moving to more wireless infrastructure in the form of smart meters? Please go to www dot smart meters town. Smart Meter

Unknown Speaker 54:03
doe. Yes. Thank you very much for your comments. And for that website.

Unknown Speaker 54:07
Yes, please come to the meeting. Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker 54:11
next caller please.

Unknown Speaker 54:12
All right, next color with the last three digits five to seven, color five to seven if you would please hit star six to unmute.

Unknown Speaker 54:28
Color five to seven if you would hit star six on your keypad

Unknown Speaker 54:43
Okay, color five to seven. Whoo. We’ll come back to you in a little bit. color with the last three digits 578 Color 578 If you would please hit star six to unmute yourself. Hey, can

Unknown Speaker 54:58
you hear us money I can hear you. Can you guys hear me? Yes, you’re good. Thanks. Awesome. Thank you. Hey, thank you, Mayor. Thank you, city council. My name is Wayne Aiello. I live at 12 76/6 Avenue, which is near the corner of sixth and Sherman about one block from the west side tavern. I’m calling about the parking signs that have been recently installed there. I attended the meeting that we had last night. And I would like to thank Mr. Rodriguez and Miss Martin for attending as well. And if any of the others that attended I didn’t notice you, but thank you for attending. I drive. Because I live in the area I drive on third Ave, I drive on Grant Sherman and Francis streets on a daily basis, I make a lot of turns on the third and off the third. And I know the intersections really well. I can tell you that the parking signs were never a concern for me or where people parked what concerns me about Third Avenue is the speed at which people drive. I do go to the tavern frequently, maybe once a week, let’s say and I have to walk home because I’m only a block away. And crossing that road at any time is a dangerous thing. In so I’d like to see more effort put into studying the speed at which people drive. When I look at the parking signs that have gone up. One thing I’ll comment on is when cars are parked on the sides of the road, it seems to me to actually be safer, people drive slower, and people do not pass me on the right if I’m making a left hand turn off a third, for example, heading down Sherman or heading down grants or any of those transits any of those streets over there, people will pass on the right if there’s nothing there to block them. When there’s cars parked, they can’t do that. And passing on the right is never a good idea. I’ve never had any line of sight issues that the city said that they identified during the the meeting last night, the city admitted that some of the line of sight issues they had identified were incorrectly identified, they were going to go back and actually take some of the parking signs down. So there’s a bit of confusion as to what is proper, what is not. One of the things too, that I think was an earlier caller mentioned was the city just did not the city staff did not follow its process for gathering community input prior to these changes. And this affects people on all sides of the issue at the meeting last night. It started off polite, but it got a little heated toward the end. At the end of the day, people were not aware of what was going on, and it’s had impact to the business. It’s reduced the business of Westside tavern, which is a really bad thing for that particular business, especially just recovering from the COVID effect. It’s also impacted residents on the streets where now people can say can’t park along third, they have to park on the side streets. One woman was breaking down in tears at the meeting last night because she has a son and now people are parking in front of her house. She doesn’t have to do her son has some sort of disability. And she needs that spot. So my point is really not to get into all the details of what was talked about at the meeting last night. But just to say that this seemed like it was a rush job, for whatever reason process was not followed. And I would really like to see those signs immediately taken down. I respectfully request that and and then have the proper process followed. Let’s have the meetings, let’s get the community input. There’s obviously a lot of changes coming to third, they’re going to tear it up for water. They’re going to repave it I think they’re tearing it up for some other reasons. There’s going to be blockages on that three way like to see the proper prosecute. Thank you so much for listening to me. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 58:17
All right, and moving on to color with the last three digits 696 Color 696 If you were there, do you mind hitting star six to unmute.

Unknown Speaker 58:31
Hello, everyone, can you hear me?

Unknown Speaker 58:33
Yes, we can. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 58:35
Okay, great. My name is Angela green. I own a Longmont rental property and live on Twin Lakes Road in Twin Lakes condos and gun barrel. I’ve owned rental properties since 1973. for the following reasons I think of rental license inspection program is totally unnecessary. Colorado has a warranty of habitability statute and Longmont has mediation services and building code enforcement department. Apparently it’s only a small percentage of Longmont tenants have registered maintenance complaints. My tenants have never been afraid to request repairs. On a regular basis. landlords and property managers already inspect their rentals for needed repairs and maintenance. Tenants are responsible by lease agreement for reporting needed repairs to the landlord or property manager. Even if the tenants are not inconvenienced by those items. How would you feel about strangers inspecting your private home? tenants don’t like it either. deferred maintenance accumulates and is income regressive because it creates greater maintenance costs. Landlords care about the condition of our rental property. deferred maintenance is up financial drain and obviously non beneficial to us. A licensing Inspection Program is an insult to landlords, tenants and property managers. We are not ignorant babies. A better use of time and resources could be programs to help fund mold mitigation and programs to train handy persons. These programs would fill a need and benefit both tenants and landlords. Loan Programs for landlords without sufficient resources to repair their rental property would be helpful. The city could educate residents about the causes and curses of the water damage, mold and other potential hazards. A few reasons why repairs are neglected or delayed are an insurance claim taking longer than expected. A tenant went outside of the lease and repaired something incorrectly and perhaps made the problem worse. landlord doesn’t have sufficient financial, mental, physical or service providers resources. landlord and tenant can agree on how to solve the problem or who is responsible. Sometimes the landlord doesn’t know about the problem and the biggest one I think is poor landlord tenant communication. Over 70% of surveyed responded strongly oppose the rental licensing and inspection program. Therefore, please abandon your plans for this time consuming creation of red tape. Instead create more housing ownership programs and build more rental. Thank you. Exactly three minutes.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:44

Unknown Speaker 1:01:45
Oh my god, I got it. Perfect. Thank you so much for listening. Blessings to you all.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:53
Okay, and moving on to the next caller caller with the last three digits 199? Caller 199. If you’re there, do you mind hitting star six to unmute. Call her 199. I can hear you and see you. Can you hear us?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:12
Hello, my name is Joseph Solomon. I am with vivo living. And I am not sure that this is a proper time to comment. But I did want to comment on resolution item number nine. So I’m willing to stand back if counsel would prefer that I stand back until that item is called.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:36
Yes, Joseph. If you wouldn’t mind we do have quite a few people calling in. So maybe it’s second. Public invited to be heard would be more appropriate.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
Absolutely. I will stand back. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:50
Perfect. And moving on to our next caller caller with the last three digits 202 Color 202 If you would hit star six to unmute. Hello, can you hear us?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:10
Yes. Can you hear me?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:11
Yes, we can. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:13
Okay, this is Polly Christensen for 10 sheets in the street Longmont, Colorado. Both rental licensing and inspections are critical for the health and safety of Longmont residents and also for the city’s residents and the city’s use in future planning. Without this crucial public database, it’s impossible to know the scope of long month housing crisis or adequately address it. I urge you to move forward tonight to direct staff to create an ordinance for rental licensing, which is a fairly simple issue. We license and inspect all restaurants in the city because people spend time purchase and consume food and beverages in an establishment and they have the right to not have their health and safety at risk from fires, building collapse, contamination etc. Residents of Longmont spend even more time living in their homes, be they rental or owned. They also have a right to live in a home in which they and their children do not have their health and safety a daily risk. Inspections are also essential but require a more detailed and thoughtful discussion. Colorado has one of the least regulated housing industries in the country. And Colorado also has one of the highest cost for rentals and homes for sale. Although speculators and landlord landlords reap a handsome profit from these businesses, they extract profit from their tenants yet are mostly unregulated. It has been said that the city receives only about 60 complaints per year from tenants. That’s because tenants know they will be evicted if they complain more frequently. The rent is simply raised and they’re quietly forced out. While Colorado now has a warranty of habitability, there’s no way to enforce this. And once again, this places it between the tenant and the landlord. Inspections would take it out of the hands of tenants versus landlords and give the city the responsibility for inspections. Just as with all new construction certificates of occupancy, there is a need for inspections for every three years for any unit or building over eight years old, single family detached homes need to be included in that inspection as they have in my extensive experience, worse maintenance and more problems. They also tend to have more people per unit, such as families with small children who are even more vulnerable to hazards in their homes. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Polly.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:34
Great and moving on to our next color color with the last three digits 765 callers. 765 If you would hit star six to unmute.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:50
Callers 765 If you were there, would you hit star six to unmute please.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:05
Alright, we’re going to go back to our first caller who we missed color with the last three digits five to seven. Color five to seven if you are there do you mind hitting star six to unmute?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:26
Color five to seven Do you mind unmuting for me? Okay, Marin Council. We have two callers left that haven’t spoken. I’m asking both of them to unmute. Do you want me to give it a little bit more time? Or what’s your yes, please

Unknown Speaker 1:06:51
and Dallas I realize that Joseph Solomon was calling in about vivo, which is nine D on the consent agenda. So if Joseph if you are still in the waiting room? I don’t know. Do you? Do you think he left Dallas?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:10
Yes, he did leave? I can I can reopen if you prefer. A

Unknown Speaker 1:07:17
while as long as we’re waiting for these last two to unmute and come in. Yeah, let’s just open it for Joseph Solomon Applebee’s.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:28
I’m here. Hello. Caller 765. We can hear you. Can you hear us? Yes,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:34
sorry. I don’t know why it wasn’t working. This is Anne Marie Jensen, with the east county housing opportunity Coalition, which includes Longmont and the other cities east of Boulder. And I wanted to say that I’m glad to hear that the staff is appointing and attainable Housing Task Force, eco support particular attention to entry level for sale housing, because I think how most people define attainable and we would love to have a member of our group included in that. But we also support lower end housing. And with that I wanted to thank you and vivo community living for including both more affordable housing them they were required to under the inclusionary housing ordinance and deeper affordable housing than they were required to. And they went as low as 50% of AMI, when most projects like that code 60 to 80% of AMI. I wanted to thank you that your staff for negotiating that and also Bebo, I also want to commend the city for acquiring the Costco site and dedicating nine acres of affordable housing at that site. And we look forward to working with you on that, as well as the 100% affordable project of the suite. So we think you’re doing a lot of good, we thank you for that. I know how much attention you pay to housing. And I can see that on your agenda. You have several housing items, and I just want to thank you and appreciate the things that you’re doing. That’s all.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:20
Thank you Anne Marie.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:23
All right, we did get two callers back. I will go to the one that we haven’t hit yet color with the last three digits 888 Color 888 If you were there do you mind unmuting for us hitting star six

Unknown Speaker 1:09:48
Hey, there caller eight, eight. Do you mind muting the live stream in the background?

Unknown Speaker 1:09:55
Yeah, okay, got it.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:57
Perfect. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:02
Go ahead welcome.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:05
Hello, Mayor Peck and council. My name is filtered lol I live on Grant Street in Longmont about a block from the west side tavern. And this concerns the conversation about Third Avenue and Sherman. You know, from a 50,000 foot level, Longmont is going through incredible growing pains. And I’m sure that that pain is felt by everyone on the screen right now. From affordable housing to RTD to everything else. Bringing it back to third and Sherman, I would I would ask a request that you use this Third Avenue Sherman situation is a test case for the future of neighborhoods that are going to address these exact same concerns. You’ve got people who have lived here for years and years, and it’s a small town memory and a small town living experience versus the growth that is happening at a rapid pace in Longmont. And that as you and the operations department and city engineers address traffic situations that you use this major corridor. I know it’s not actually called that, you know, in engineering terms, but Third Avenue is a major cut through between Main Street and hoever. To deal with many situations as the ideal test case, you have neighbors who feel like they’re in danger crossing the street, your neighbors who feel like they’re in danger, crossing off of Sherman onto Third Avenue, you have a small business involved. And I would I would implore you to really I know you already, to some extent are but really focus on the situation with third in Sherman, to create a best practices that can be rolled out to the rest of Longmont. As this situation occurs over and over and over again, throughout the city and the however many years it is to come and ask you to you know, do whatever you can to sustain small business and protect people at the same time. And I thank you for all your hard work. I know that you guys are all you know, not making a boatload of money out of Walmart.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:05
Thank you. Thank you, Phil, thank you for your comments. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:13
All right, and then color with the last three digits 199 Color 199 If you unmute for us again with star six Hey there, can you hear us

Unknown Speaker 1:13:28
Oh again, mayor and council persons. This is again Joseph Solomon from ego living and again we’re standing by to discuss item number nine relating to the conversion of the hotel located at one night for SEO can prep Boulevard 200 210 apartment units. Is this an okay time to speak? Yes,

Unknown Speaker 1:13:53
Joseph, now’s the time to speak on it.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:58
Fantastic. Thank you very much, mayor and council persons. First of all, I wanted to thank you, those of you in particular who had the opportunity to come to our open house a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately while I could not be there personally, I know that Dan Viva Dan Norvell, our CEO as well as Leslie and some of their team members were there. And it was a tremendous opportunity for us to connect to the the people of Longmont because we are really environmentally based socially conscious. And it meant a lot to us to connect with you. So first of all, a big thank you to the to the city to yourself in all of you for being there. We are a untenable lifestyle housing provider and it is by way of converting functionally obsolete hotels, such as this property that allows us to really transfer you know, in functionally obsolete property that sort of transients, and are proud to have it socially minded projects that then can service the local community. At the beginning of this session, social equity was was mentioned. And we are really proud at vivo, to be very mindful and participants in our development, to provide social equity in our projects. And we think that this project is the epitome of the type of projects that address community needs, that provide inclusionary housing, and by having and don’t forget, this particular project has give me 26 affordable units, that it is a, I think, an example a prime example of the social minded type of projects that were alluded to earlier. So I hope that that’s all taken into consideration. As a council member, Marsha Martin pointed out in her beautiful article, I think it was from yesterday, if I’m not mistaken, you know, our properties service, the whole spectrum of the rental population. We service people who are, you know, maybe leaving their parents at home for the first time. And when King for the first time we service workforce, you know, members of the community that are teachers and firefighters and police officers, and we service you know, all the way up the chain to retirees who maybe are empty nesters, as you know, as well. And what we offer is beautiful, fresh accommodations that have lifestyle. Yes, yes, many.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:04
Joseph, your time is up. Thank you so much for calling in and for your comments.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:10
Thank you all. I hope that that is approved and we look forward to working with the city. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:18
All right.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:19
And we are we are back to our final color for a third time color five to seven if you were there. Do you mind hitting star six to unmute for me please call it with the last three digits five to seven please hit star six to unmute. Hey, there caller five to seven. Can you hear us?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:53
I can. Great. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:58
Hi there. My name is Wes. It’s been 730 Kimbark. Here in Longmont. I would like to thank the council folks and the manager for the meeting that was held last night about the Third Avenue parking things.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:17
I would like to say, first of all, that there was a lot of controversy last night and a lot of confusion and a lot of passion. And I would also like to apologize for any hostility for for any hostile feelings that have been expressed in a very difficult couple years with the with the COVID lockdown and things that are going on, it’s been very difficult for the business and for the planning of the business. It was expressed last night and admitted that there have been and talked about tonight, several errors that have been made in this process. The current condition that exists has actually increased the life safety risk versus the goal at the moment was to decrease it the increased speed on third combined with the pushing the the cars into the neighborhood without lighting or crosswalks. And, and the net and neighborhood irritation and conflicts that have happened it just escalated. I would ask the council to put a motion to reset the parking issue or the parking situation to how it was prior to this recent change in the week between Christmas and New Year’s and to re redirect the city manager and everyone to give this a chance to do it correctly. And that is my request and thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:40
Thank you west so tell us Do we have anyone else?

Unknown Speaker 1:19:48
That was our last color Mayor pack?

Unknown Speaker 1:19:52

Unknown Speaker 1:19:53
thank you very much. We are now on to the consent agenda. Can the clerk please read the items on the committee sent agenda into the record.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:02
Absolutely. Mayor Peck and I just wanted to note that item nine I resolution 2022 Dash 33 is being removed from the agenda and will be brought back in the future it has some incorrect exhibits in that item. So that one is will not be blessed tonight. So Item nine A is ordinance 20 2207. A bill for an ordinance approving an amendment to the total property mining and surface use a lease agreement between the city of Longmont and aggregate industries, WC our Inc. Public Hearing and second reading is scheduled for March 29 2022. Nine V is ordinance 20 2208. A bill for an ordinance amending the Longmont Municipal Code regarding the 2021 edition of the International Building residential mechanical fuel gas plumbing, property maintenance, energy conservation swimming pool and spa, existing building and fire codes. Public Hearing and second reading for that is also on March 29 2022. Nine C is resolution 2022 Dash 27 a resolution of the Council of the City of Longmont, Colorado, finding that the petition for annexation of parcels of land located in Weld County and Boulder County, State of Colorado known as the partial open space and Quicksilver road annexation, generally located on the east side of county line road south of St. Breen Creek and north of County Road 20 and a half and Quiksilver road between 119th street and County Line Road substantially complies with the Colorado Revised Statute section 3112 10719 D is resolution 2022 28 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving a voluntary alternative agreement for the vivo living hotel conversion development as satisfaction of the city’s inclusionary housing requirements. Nine is resolution 2022 Dash 29 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving a voluntary alternative agreement for a housing development proposed by sunset element LLC as satisfaction of the city’s inclusionary housing requirements. Nine F is resolution 2022 Dash 30 a resolution of a Longmont City Council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city in the Longmont housing authority for support and services. Nine G is resolution 2022 Dash 31 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving the first amended and restated intergovernmental agreement between the city and Boulder County concerning the use of a city of Longmont van for the COVID-19 shelter for the homeless. Nine H is resolution 2022 Dash 32 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city and Boulder County for utility billing assistance to Longmont residents. Nine j is resolution 2022 Dash 34 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city of Longmont and Boulder County concerning asphalt chip and seal on North 75th Street 9k is resolution 2022 Dash 35 a resolution of the Longmont City Council establishing the fee for cash in lieu of water rights transfers. Nine L is resolution 2022 Dash 36 a resolution of the Longmont City Council renaming the park site formerly known as South Clover base and neighborhood park as the clover Meadows neighborhood park. Nine M is resolution 2022 Dash 37 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city of Longmont and Boulder County for an amendment to the declaration of covenants, conditions and restrictions on boulder County’s Western mobile lake for property. Nine as in is resolution 2022 Dash 38 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving the amendment to the intergovernmental agreement between the city of Longmont and the Colorado Department of Human Services Office of Behavioral Health for contract amendment number five for original contract number 18 HJ 107352 For Longmont Public Safety’s co responder program. Nine Oh is resolution 2022 Dash 39 a resolution of the Longmont City Council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city and the Colorado State Patrol for a memorandum of understanding to permit the Longmont police department to conduct commercial vehicle safety inspections. Nine P is resolution 2022 Dash 40 a resolution of the Longmont City Council authorizing a lease agreement with option to purchase between the city of Longmont as lessee and the Huntington National Bank as lessor for golf carts for the city golf courses and nine Q’s resolution 2022 Dash 41 a resolution of the Longmont City Council calling a special municipal election to be held Tuesday, November 8 2022. To fill a vacancy in the office of city council member at large.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:34
Thank you Don do Council any council members want to pull items from the consent agenda? Councillor waters?

Tim Waters 1:24:40
I’d like to pull item 9k The cash in lieu for water rights item.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:48
Hey, are there any other items that need to be pulled? Councillor waters? Would you like to move the consent agenda then minus 9k?

Tim Waters 1:24:57
I will I’ll move the consent agenda minus Hi, I’m Mike a second.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:01
Thank you. Thank you. So that’s been Moved by Councillor waters seconded by Councillor Martin. All those in favor? Please raise your hand. Thank you. That has been approved unanimously. So we will move on to ordinance on second reading. We don’t have any tonight. So we’ll go right on to the items removed from consent agenda. Councillor waters, you remove nine, remove your pulled 9k.

Tim Waters 1:25:32
I did. And let me just say up front, I support this recommendation to increase the cash in lieu payment from the 18,000 to the 48. So this is not my concern. I am concerned. Or maybe I just would like to hear Harold talk about or whomever Harold would be the right person. There was some discussion when this was introduced about flexibility in terms of timing of implementation, and well, maybe not in terms of timing, I would like to know if there’s any flexibility in terms of timing. Because when I think back on the inclusionary housing ordinance when we adopted it, there were projects that were in a queue. And we said those projects, were not tempted to what we were in the process of crafting the time. Anything that, you know, came in after that was subject to the inclusionary housing ordinance and should be. And I’m wondering if we’re thinking about this the same way. First question in that is, if there are there projects, somewhere in the process of application for annexation, or in the development process, we’re doing this now is going to surprise people with the additional costs. Number one, number two, there was some discussion about the flexibility, Harold, for attainable and affordable housing and how this would be applied or waived for the kind of housing stock that we need. Because this surely is going to add cost to the development of residential housing. So my question is, where is the flexibility? What should the community know? What should we know about scheduling, or timing for implementation and flexibility once it’s implemented, for projects that that we would like to make certain we’re doing everything we can to keep residential housing costs down?

Unknown Speaker 1:27:22
So I’m going to start actually. So I do I don’t know where we are on this. But people pay the cash in lieu at time of Platt. And so

Unknown Speaker 1:27:38
So, yeah, you’re correct, Harold and Councilmember waters. And I see Cannes on and I think Joanie is also on this evening. And, Glen, I am not aware of projects that are at the, you know, the final plat stage, or that would be immediately impacted by the project, or by the, you know, the increase in the cash in lieu? What I will say, is it, you’re absolutely correct, you know, that this kind of an increase in the cash in Lieu is, is bound to have an impact, right, the cost impact on on development? I think, you know, the core issue still is is what flexibility do we have? And Harold and I did chat about that today. And I do believe we absolutely have a strategy and flexibility around affordable housing, I believe we have the capacity to also bring forward for your consideration. The application of a similar I’ll be it might be slightly different policy for attainable housing. And so I don’t think either those are areas of community interest that need to necessarily be directly impacted by this. You know, frankly, you know, the price of getting water to our city right now. So I don’t know if that helps, but I think we can address a couple of the issues that you’re mentioning, and I’m not aware of any project. And I I could be wrong. Right. That’s immediately in the pipeline that that would be surprised by the change. Here Oh, you’re muted. You’re muted.

Tim Waters 1:29:41
I’m sorry. Can I just respond just to deal in in anticipation of what Harold’s about say? You’re just Dale in terms of, I have no doubt you can figure that out this figure this out. But we all know how certainty or the lack of it plays out in the commitments We need from developers and builders to accelerate the kind of housing stock we want to see available in the community. So more more information is better than less information to reduce the uncertainty or to increase certainty. So maybe, if we could, if we knew, or they knew that we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna, this is not going to apply to affordable or attainable housing. And there’s simple ways to handle this. Anything that’s, you know, in the what if the same place in the process where we excluded or included projects in the inclusionary housing ordinance. Now, I just listed,

Unknown Speaker 1:30:40
so if I can, I’m going to take the easier question is the affordable the attainable component. So when Council discussed this last time, you know, we pointed out that we could look at something for attainable. And it wouldn’t hit the time when we were bringing the resolution in terms of affordable, we already have the system in place to deal with the cash in lieu component. And it’s what we utilize, actually, when we purchased the nine acres associated with Costco to satisfy the deficit. So on the affordable housing side that set and so whether it’s 24,000, or 48,000, that’s in the process. And, and so that’s one component of it. What’s in my mind in terms of the attainable component is that we utilize the same process that we have for affordable. And we either go to the original $18,000, that was in play prior to that, or we go down to half of that, which is the which is $9,000 per acre foot for attainable housing, which would be lower. My concern about going to zero on attainable housing, and zero both on affordable housing is that you would disincentivize affordable housing because they would be the same. And those are the items that we have to bring back to you all in terms of that piece. But to give you a sense of what I was thinking it giving Council an option of either going back to the original cost or going back to something in the neighborhood of half the original cost, if we want to incentivize attainable housing, in that process that’s on that side of it. And that’s what I was thinking about pulling forward in terms of what’s in the system. And I’m going to probably need jeans help on this one. Is that the I would assume that if you are in the process, meaning it’s already been submitted, and you’re in the process, the old fees would apply to you. And if you haven’t submitted and you’re not in the process, then the new fees would apply to. Eugene, is that a accurate assumption?

Unknown Speaker 1:33:07
Mayor Council Eugene Bay, City Attorney, yeah, I mean, do you apply and the rules that were in effect at the time of your application.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:16
So for those that have submitted their application, they will get the old fee of 18,000, those that have not submitted an application will get the new fee.

Tim Waters 1:33:28
That for commercial and for housing that is other than attainable.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:34
That’s for anyone. So anyone that’s in the system that has submitted an application, they’re coming in under the 18,000. Somebody who comes in Tuesday and submits an application there in the new rate,

Tim Waters 1:33:49
even if even if the application is what results ultimately, in the construction of attainable housing.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:57
No. So if the application would result in affordable housing, then we would look at it through the affordable housing program that we have in place. Now, we do not have a program for attainable housing. And that’s the one that we said we would have to bring back to you all and adopt. And so and that’s the one where I said what I was looking at is taking the same mechanism for affordable that we already have in play, take the attainable housing definition and look at tearing it based on on the rate and so if you were 80 to 100% Ami, based on the number of units on the number of acres, that may be 9000. If you’re at 100 to 110 that may be more in tearing it similar to the way that we have the inclusionary housing so we don’t have different scales that we’re using in that process, but we have to bring that back to you all And that’s gonna have to be adopted via ordinance.

Tim Waters 1:35:03
Mayor pick my ask one more question. Yes, Harold that goes down this back to my first, the first of the two questions in terms of implementation. It seems to me that I think it’s the right decision to make, but it seems to me we ought not to be implementing it, and risk the either slowing down, moving forward with attainable housing, until a policy comes back. I think we ought to wait to implement this until we have a policy. So we know there’s not going to be we’re not going to burden with this decision attainable or or residential, attainable or affordable housing, and it won’t be affordable, attainable housing. You know, we’re just talking about appointing a taskforce, etc. It doesn’t make sense to me to implement this, if there’s a risk that we’re going to burden housing that might have qualified as affordable. So that’s my last comment. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:03
So Councilman waters, do you want to move on 9k? Or,

Tim Waters 1:36:12
I will Can I Can I ask one more question. I don’t need to drag this out. I just

Unknown Speaker 1:36:19
want to take your time. What are the

Tim Waters 1:36:21
implement? Alright, then. It Right now I have to move it and vote against it and I don’t want to vote against it. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:32
I will move that then I move. Let me look at the number of 9k I move ordinance 2022 Dash 35. Second, all those in favor, raise your hand.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:50
All those opposed.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:53
So that passes four to one with Councilman waters in opposition. So that brings us to the next part of our agenda, but I’m wondering Do we need a break or can we get through the next presentation and take a break at the next public be invited to be heard? Those who want to break now? Raise your hand. Okay, let’s take a three minute break. Councilman Hidalgo fairing All right. We will take a three minute break. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:30
Mayor Peck, I believe you requested a three minute break. We are at the three minute mark if you’d like I can. We can hold out a little bit longer. But if you and Councillor ready, I can drop the slide

Unknown Speaker 1:41:45
you are muted.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:48
I am muted. Go ahead and drop the slide down. Sounds good. So we’re just waiting for the mayor pro Tim. There he is. So we are at the exciting part of our meeting tonight, which is the presentation on the rental rental.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:20
Whoops, I’m getting feedback rental license procedure. I would like to make statement here first. Let’s have the presentation. And then Councilwoman Hidalgo Fairey had said she would like to make a motion and then we’ll open it up for the discussion on the rental license, if that’s okay with everyone. So, Glen ordain whoever’s gonna go forward.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:48
Sure, I’ll kick it off. Glen van Inwagen, your planning director and we do have Dane Herms, Hermsen here, who is our senior housing inspector. And that I think our city manager Harold Dominguez wanted to make some opening statements.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:04
Your Good going, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:07
Okay. All right. Great. Well, thank you, counsel. We did want to present the results of surveys we took last summer. We repeated it. We first put out the survey in June, July, and got a pretty good response. But we did go back out then the next month to get additional responses, we ended up with about 753 total responses, so not bad. But I have about eight slides and if you could bring that up Dallas. Okay, so we didn’t ask the questions in this order. We just kind of put the results in this order because it kind of made sense as we kind of up the requirements in the rental, housing registration and inspection program, kind of what the responses were, we’ve got a number of, we have these stacked bar charts. So the top color, which is orange is a landlord who owns numerous properties. The olive green is a landlord that just owns one property. Then we have the green which is I guess we define it as a concerned neighbor or concerned resident of the city of Longmont that wanted to weigh in on the program. The light blue is property managers. And then we highlighted the bottom which is actual renters and how they voted on the various questions that we asked. We did highlight the renters because I think that’s what counsel was concerned about is are we reaching them? Are they getting access to The services that code enforcement and Dane provides as far as making sure we have safe housing in our community. So I think overall, as we go through the slides, I mean, one of the trends we kind of saw is, certainly you would understand, and I think you heard it tonight, if if you’re a landowner or landlord, you’re not in favor of additional regulation. However, what was kind of unique is if you’re a renter, they were kind of split on whether additional oversight additional requirements was a good thing or a bad thing. And you’ll see that as we run through the slides. One of the other things that kind of stood out to me is the total right hand column is NA. So those are folks that took the survey, but for whatever reason, they did not answer these particular questions. I’m not sure why. I think part of that might be that maybe they don’t understand the program, or the requirements very well. So that kind of points at maybe an issue that we need to solve going forward. But our first question was simply do we want to keep the status quo and that is, if you make a complaint about a housing situation, you would apply, you would make that complaint to code enforcement. And Dane would be the person who would go out and inspect and see if there is a housing issue. So the left side is most desirable, and the right side is least desirable. Again, you can see definitely, if you’re a property owner, you’re not in favor of that require or you are in favor of just keeping it the way it is that you feel it’s maybe most effective. But again, when you look at the renters, which is kind of that bottom pink area, on either end of the spectrum, there’s those that are in favor of keeping it the way it is. And there’s those that think maybe it’s not enough. So if you could advance the slide

Unknown Speaker 1:47:18

Unknown Speaker 1:47:22
Then we asked about a simple question, should we do more education for landlords about IPMC, which is our International Property Maintenance code. That’s the code Dane uses to make sure that we have safe housing in the community. And, you know, maybe the landlord would know about it unless we had a rental licensing program, where we know who they are, and we can provide that education directly to a landlord. These results kind of fell right in the middle. You know, that semi neutral? I think, number three was slightly approving of that. That action, so kind of right in the middle. But again, if you look at those that did chose not to answer this question, there’s quite a few of them. So, again, that’s that’s one thing that raises some concern with us. Next slide. So here, we had a little bit more specific, do you think the city should require licensing and yearly license renewal for rental properties? And it was pretty evenly split between renters? That felt either yes or no, almost exactly the same? If we did have opportunities for people to enter open ended answers in a number of questions and just perusing through those. There were a few trends that I saw from renters. I think one of the concerns why they did not want additional legislation, additional requirements was the feeling that it would get passed on to them and they would end up paying a higher rent. And then I think we heard from one of the callers another big trend in concerns from the renters, specifically is a lot of loss of privacy, that they feel that their home is their castle, and they don’t necessarily want our inspectors is as great as Dane is I can’t imagine but some folks don’t necessarily want him inspecting their unit. Next slide. So we take it a step further, you think the city should require systematic inspections for rental properties. Now we started to see a little bit of increase when you look at the responses from the renters slightly higher increase in those that felt that that’s a good idea. And we did have a few respondents that said, Yes, sometimes I do have issues that I raise and and they don’t get taken care of very quickly. But again, those that were against it, the two main themes were a concern about raising my rent, and that it’s kind of a government intrusion, there’s a loss of privacy. One thing that was kind of jumped out a little bit was the concern neighbors. So that is the green area, certainly seem to think it’s a good idea to do a systematic inspection of rental properties. We did see some that they feel that they may be detrimental in the neighborhood, a few comments to that effect. So next slide. Then we asked the full gamut, the city should the city enforce the code proactively by licensing and inspecting rental housing at regular intervals, again, on the scale to the left is most desirable, people think that’s the greatest answer, and on the right would be least desirable. And you can certainly see when you add in all of the respondents, that it’s not a popular idea. And again, when you look at the specifically the renters, they’re split very close to 5050 of whether they’re in favor, or they’re against the full program that we presented back in last June, which included registering rental properties, and then inspecting every two years any rental property that was attached, and were eight years old.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:12
Next slide. So we asked the same question in more of a policy framework, how supportive Are you of allocating additional resources of the city to a rental housing inspection program? On the left is not at all supportive, which certainly got the greatest votes all the way to completely supportive. So again, you look at the renters, and they’re pretty evenly split on either end of that spectrum. Just kind of gleaning through some of the themes in the open ended questions that were answered some of the things we saw was, the city doesn’t need it, we haven’t really shown that we have an issue with the state of our rental housing, that fear of the cost just get moved on to the renter, that we could use the funds for other beneficial things for renters, for instance, helping them move up into a home that they could own. And basically the idea that it’s it’s a waste of taxpayer money. So those were some of the themes we got out of this question. And then we d dive a little bit deeper into very specific things. So if you could go to the next slide Dallas. So if we were to create a rental housing licensee and or inspection program, what are the housing types that should be included? On the left is basically a duplex or a triplex and then you go up in density of an apartment complex with 10 units or more. In the middle is a mobile home park. The next category to the foot. The fourth column to the right is if you’re renting a room within a house, you’re just you have roommates and you’re renting a room, and then we go to a single family home and then very large complexes up to greater or between five and nine units. Kind of an even split, I think all the way across. I think there’s a little bit more bias towards the larger apartment complexes. I think when staff proposed that we look at specifically attached units. There’s a little bit more code requirements that go along with it. higher density housing. So I think you’re seeing here that the fear, or the concern would be with the higher density but pretty well evenly split across the board. So I think we have just one more slide. Here we as what are some of the things that you would like an inspection program to focus on, I thought we would see something more about exterior conditions of units, but they fell really into safety orientation, the highest being overall safety of the structure structurally, and then fire safety. So probably not a surprise there. And then when you talk about concerned citizens that may be lived next door to an apartment complex, or a rental project, they’re pretty pretty evenly split across the board. So I didn’t see any big trends jump out, but this is what we learned. We certainly have a whole bunch of opening open ended questions that we didn’t provide, but we thought we’d give counsel start here and give counsel kind of an overview of what we learned from the respondents to the survey.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:27
Thank you, Glenn. I’m,

Unknown Speaker 1:56:29

Unknown Speaker 1:56:30
You’d like to weigh in on this?

Unknown Speaker 1:56:32
No, I just wanted to say I know that. As we were, as we’ve been talking about this council has, I’ve talked to all of you a different format about this. And I know, for us, I think the clarity on the inspection and the licensing piece, and where council wants us to go is going to be pretty important as we continue to move forward.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:53
Okay, thank you. Councilman Hidalgo, fairing.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:58
Um, thank you, Mayor. You know, I’ve had several discussions with staff. And as well as tenants. And, um, you know, I based on the findings of this survey, you know, I think it’s pretty telling, you know, the community input, the split, you know, the, the split results on some of these topics for tenants. Um, and really, what are what is it? What was our purpose? What was our underlining purpose, we’re bringing this honor, honor to for discussion tonight. One of the things for me was that data collection piece, I would really like to move to change the direction to staff, to, to, in order to meet the needs of collecting the data we need at the local level, and use existing resources, our online platform, I would like to direct staff to create an online voluntary registry. So if we are single family, you know, single family units, duplexes that don’t necessarily, you know, we can’t access those as readily as apartment units. But we’d have to have that voluntary, you know, for now voluntary, you know, just kind of, really, you know, just your name, you’re renting this unit, or you’re reading this home, this address that we kind of have so for us is we’re making decisions for future building priorities that we actually know what what are the numbers of rentals, we have, especially in duplexes, and single family homes. And in that respect, so the second thing I’d like to also amend would be rather than having the inspection piece, it really in tenants that I spoke with, as well, as you know, my own experience as a tenant is knowing what our rights are, you know, knowing having, you know, you we have Susan Spaulding who is a great resource. And I, you know, I she’s been wonderful with providing information that we need, but to have a separate individual that will work in conjunction with her whether and to really open it up to staff to see if we have the existing resources or staff that we need to work in conjunction with Susan to be able to have a tenant’s Alliance. Well, Susan maintains and focuses on the landlord align. And then and then from there, we can really evaluate what are the disparities platform for tenants that would allow them to to voice their concerns in a safe secure and so they feel safe and secure in in what they’re sharing? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 1:59:53
I heard part of that that you was we’re making a motion.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:58
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Oh my language down I just kind of

Unknown Speaker 2:00:02
make that very concise as to what it is this motion is,

Unknown Speaker 2:00:05
like my words. So um, so you know, I move to direct redirect staff to create a with existing resources, create an online platform or an online option for landlords to voluntarily register their units that they have for rent, as well as and I haven’t written down here, staff to look at building that capacity for tenant landlord relationships. I kind of want to keep it open so they can decide whether you’re going to use existing resources or, or if you need to add another FTE

Unknown Speaker 2:00:46

Unknown Speaker 2:00:49
So the what is so

Unknown Speaker 2:00:50
you want a voluntary landlord online registry? Yes. And a tenant rights.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:00

Unknown Speaker 2:01:03
to work alongside Susan Spaulding who focuses on landlord Alliance. Yes. Am I saying that correctly?

Unknown Speaker 2:01:12
Yes. Yes. Do we have a second? I’ll second that

Unknown Speaker 2:01:21
for the discussion. Councillor Martin?

Unknown Speaker 2:01:27
I was gonna second for the discussion. If you didn’t, but I go ahead with them. That’s all right. Because I want to vote no. And I want to say why. Okay. Okay. I originally supported this proposal. And the reasons were pretty much the same as councilmember doggo Ferring, which is that we need the data about our supply and the demand that we have for housing. But the thing is, we got a grant, and we’re going to do a big needs assessment. And I think that that would be much more effective than a voluntary registry. So I don’t think we need that. And the other thing that we did, because when I was asking about resident complaints and trying to help people, file a habitability can play, I discovered that it was essentially impossible. I mean, you had to, to just get a flash from God and where to find it on the city website. And that’s been fixed. And about the time that that got fixed. I stopped having to help people get it done. And so I think that combined with the city’s the city’s existing landlord tenant education programs, which are really pretty extensive, that I don’t think we need this particular mechanism. And after we vote on, you know, or discuss, Councilmember Iago firings, motion and vote on it. I have an alternative motion to

Unknown Speaker 2:03:20
introduce. Okay. Thank you,

Unknown Speaker 2:03:22
Councillor Martin, anyone else? Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:27
Thank you, Mayor Peck. So first of all, I would say thank you, Councilmember dog fairing for your very thoughtful motion. I’m not gonna be voting for it. Because at the end of the day, when I looked at those numbers that were provided in this this presentation, there was not a clear mandate from tenants. And those are the only numbers that I was I was looking at, to be honest with you. You know, I appreciate our landlords. And as mayor Peck and I at coffee with Council heard, there are some legitimate issues that landlords face, and we can work with them in a proactive manner, as long as they let us know about it. That being said, I will say that we should, you know, be it on the website or with the city line. And maybe Mayor Peck could do this and part of her portion of the sea line but make it very well advertised as far as tenancy issues are concerned. The very real fact of the matter is, though, is that when I got that email that we all received about the workload that staff has from city manager Dominguez, I look at everything now with a much more skeptical lens about where do we put this in the agenda? Where do we prioritize these kinds of things? And to me, this is not something that is urgent enough based especially on the fact that the tenants were not Like I said, a clear mandate, saying that they needed these these inspections to happen these licenses to happen. And I’m not against them. I will say that maybe in, you know, hopefully, a less pandemic world, a less housing crunch world, I would love to look at this. I think this is we are chasing squirrels sometimes. And I appreciate that. Because that’s what we are elected to do. But we also need to be cognizant of chasing the squirrels and this to me, is something that we could do, but as a municipality of our size is not absolutely required. We are also not a university city like Boulder is to so to equate those two things is different. It’s very different. And so I would like to I would like to see any discussion of an actual ordinance tabled. I appreciate the survey that staff did the multiple surveys, actually, that staff did. And just to speak to a somewhat different thing. I also as a real estate appraiser, do inspections of homes, and it is disruptive and people do not like it. So if we are to see any sort of ordinance, I would ask that we only inspect between tenancy as in not, while anybody is occupying space, because you could be there for 15 years and love it right. You can be a long term tenant, there’s no reason to continue to inspect them and disrupt their lives, if they feel that 15 You know.

Unknown Speaker 2:06:52
So I think that

Unknown Speaker 2:06:55
this was a very good presentation, we know what we’re looking at. It sounds like actually, the city has a fairly decent enumeration of rental properties. And as I know that many of us met with the Bara, ladies are at least one of the ladies. And I will say that, I don’t know if you all would agree or not. But most of the complaints I get are from very large apartment complexes, not from say single family occupancy or you know, a smattering of of townhomes and condos and things that are owned by investors, and landlords, if you will. So if we’re going to look at this, I think it’s most appropriate to look at it with the very large apartment complexes that are in town that we already get enough heat about, if you will. So thank you.

Unknown Speaker 2:07:52
Thank you. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Councillor Yarborough?

Unknown Speaker 2:08:00
Thank you, Mayor Peck, I guess my main concern it will be for making sure that the tenants has have an option to disclose any issues that they may have, because of the fear of being kicked out of their unit. I don’t know if there is something like safe detail kind of situation, to where they can report the landlord. And then maybe, you know, Dane, you can go by and just kind of watch a look around. I don’t know the process. And I’m not trying to you know, make you do something that that is that’s not in your protocol. But what I’m saying is I think it is important to understand and listen to those residents who have a fear of being kicked out of their units because of some safety issues within their unit. But I do agree with the council members, my co council members because I myself am a renter and I would not want my unit to be disrupted with people coming in and inspecting as well. But I do want to be mindful of the tenants who may feel like they don’t have a voice and that they may not have an option either. So do we have anything in place for those tenants who are really afraid to speak out and and then what is that process for them and so that they won’t get exposed? Wow, there’s whatever those measures taken to make sure that the tenants are safe enough for those tenants.

Unknown Speaker 2:09:46
Thank you, councillor. Anyone else? So a counselor hit altering.

Unknown Speaker 2:09:55
Okay. Thank you, Mayor. So, um, you know, at the end of the day, you know I really want one of the things that I noticed, especially when we hit some of those areas that were split. Was that tenants and yeah, this is just from my own conversations with residents as well, that they, you know, there’s we have to have something in place and maybe staff Harold Can, can speak to this, what are we currently doing that really work to empower tenants to know, to know what their rights are. And it could just be that we offer some more educational programs where tenants can attend, know, your rights training, what is state statute? And it could be something as simple as that, rather than going to a whole other command. So yeah, I kinda like to know what what are we? what systems do we have in place that can be shared publicly?

Unknown Speaker 2:10:53
So Fleur,

Unknown Speaker 2:10:54
Martin, you’re muted. You’re muted Marsha, I’m

Unknown Speaker 2:11:02
so sorry. Oh, we just we just did that. You know, as I as I was saying, Before, it was almost impossible to find the path to lodging a complaint. And now, it’s, there’s, there’s a page that explains all that tenants rights, how to file a habitability complaint. And it’s, it’s pretty good one stop shopping. And and people don’t need to ask anymore. You know, and I, I think that, you know, if you see that you are protected, and the we, you have a link to the mediator, and you can file your habitability complaint, then, you know, then then you’re pretty good. Honestly, when I, when I first looked at that page, because nobody told me it was up. So I found it when we were you know, I was doing my research on this. And it’s great, you know, it fixes a whole bunch of the issues. So I don’t I I think we’re good the way we are. And thank you,

Unknown Speaker 2:12:11
Councillor Dane, you had your hand up?

Unknown Speaker 2:12:15
Yeah, I was just gonna speak to a few of those points. So there wouldn’t be any way we can go out and really do an inspection without the landlord knowing who reported it because most of the issues are inside the homes and we’re not going to get in there without consent. But we do have a lot of resources we can use to support tenants, Susan Spaulding and Adriana Perea do a great job as with everyone else, and community neighborhood resources. I also provide a lot of education, a lot of the calls I get are just people saying what is the code. And they don’t want me to go through an open a case they want to just know so they can go have the conversation with their landlord and try to work it out. So those are kind of the things we can support. Unfortunately, there is we can’t have it both ways where we can keep the tenant anonymous and not require inspections for everybody. There’s just no way to do both. Good points.

Unknown Speaker 2:13:11
Thank you, Dane. The reason that I second it this is because first of all, for the the data to know how many rental units so that when we are saying excuse me, that we need this many rental units in to meet our demand will know what we have, whether they’re vacant or whether they’re occupied. But the other part was that we do have the landlord tenant Alliance and I’ve been to those meetings and the reality is the perception is that it’s all landlords that attend that tenants don’t attend those meetings with Susan Spaulding that are held on a monthly basis. It it doesn’t feel like there is a tenant ombudsman and I think it’s great that we have the website. Thank you for that Councillor Martin, I didn’t realize that that had been upgraded on our website. So perhaps a week we could do so my question probably. Uh, Harold could answer this. When a tenant calls, are they talking to a specific tenant ombudsman, or is it Susan Spaulding?

Unknown Speaker 2:14:28
Um, I want to see if is Karen Are you on?

Unknown Speaker 2:14:36
Yes. So mayor and city council members, so we don’t have a specific designated tenant ombudsman so, so when folks call in for landlord tenant issues, you know, they either speak with Susan Spalding or with Adriana prayer. So, So they cover REITs. And, you know, and provide information to, to both tenants and to mine.

Unknown Speaker 2:15:10
So I’m, and I’m glad that I was I was just speaking, basically to the monthly meetings that are attended by landlords. So I don’t think the perception is there in the public, that that is open to tenants. And that’s where I I am feeling when we talk about the equity lens, and that everybody has a voice, is there a way to specify a certain person that is open for tenant? Advocacy, advocacy? And I’m not saying and I really like Susan Spaulding. And Ray, I understand that I’m just talking about the perception. And is it possible to have someone specifically to address 10 issues? And then work with with Susan and Andrea, but so that that is my concern about going forward? Is that we are not including voices?

Unknown Speaker 2:16:19
If I can jump in, I think what I’m what I’m, I’m hearing are two things. One thing is how do we how do we create a more robust platform for tenants, that is similar to the landlord component. And I think we can look at that because that is something that we need to look at if the perception is that there’s difference and, and we can definitely work on that. And then how does an ombudsman or other staff that we have within our broader housing, maybe play a part in that. And I think that’s something that we can look at, especially as we’re integrating housing work more globally with the housing authority and other things, in terms of what we can do. So I think it’s good feedback that if the perception, you know, if the perception is that it’s different for tenants than it is for landlords, then we need to figure out how to address that perception, and it’s something that we need to do. And then we can assess what we have in staffing, in terms of to look at different solutions. If we determine that we need another position or something to be that conduit, that would have to be something that would come into the budget process. Just because we don’t necessarily have that fun right now. But definitely, I think for me, operationally, what I’m hearing is we’ve got to talk about how we were communicate how we’re creating educational opportunities for tenants and others to understand it beyond just that, and I’ll have to give a Karen and staff to figure that out. Karen.

Unknown Speaker 2:18:07
Thank you, Harold. Yeah, I was basically gonna say the same thing. So, you know, certainly the intent and the purpose of our, our service that we offer out of community Neighborhood Resource is equitable access for both tenants and landlords, you know, to address issues and to be well informed. And so clearly we can look at our approach and and making sure that we are reducing any barriers to access are really making making it more comfortable for lack of a better word, you know, for for people to access the services. So we absolutely will take a look at that.

Unknown Speaker 2:18:52
No, Councilwoman Hidalgo firing up, is there any way you would like to redo this motion of pull it and make a different motion or to direct staff to move forward with some kind of a tenant?

Unknown Speaker 2:19:12
I would like to focus on the tenant aspect. So that would allow us and I don’t know if it’s, um, you know, if it’s something that is let’s see. Yeah, I’ll change it. Um, I can I can remove and I think you know, we have other means of attaining who’s you know, the collecting data on the on the rental and Harold this might be can you help me answer this? Do we have a way to just pull up so I was little hoping that we’d be able to just have a database where we can kind of get a glimpse of, okay, we need to figure out how many homes you know, single family homes are, are for rent. What is the data Okay, so we can just pull it up.

Unknown Speaker 2:20:03
Glenda, do we have that?

Unknown Speaker 2:20:09
You’re at it. I’m not familiar with the database where we have all rental properties shown now. Certainly, Susan Spaulding has the folks that that landlords that come to her meetings bar have has a certain amount of registration. Other than that, we’re I mean, we would go back through utilities and try and figure out where the owner is different than the person paying the utilities. And you can make some assumptions, that that’s probably a rental property. That’s, that’s a little bit. It’s kind of a big data crunching, that is

Unknown Speaker 2:20:51
very timely, what I was hoping and then Harold, the other question I have for you, is if we just did something with our city website, our online platform, where a person who is renting their property can go in and say, you know, this, you know, address, blah, blah, blah, is is rented, how much will that cost? Or how much would that be out of city resources?

Unknown Speaker 2:21:17
I’m going to ask Sandy, but I think if we could create just a webpage, Lincoln form, download into an Excel, some kind of spreadsheet or something that keeps the information? I’m not seeing that that’s, can we do that same form that downloads into a spreadsheet?

Unknown Speaker 2:21:38
Yeah, we can gather any information that you’re looking for from that I’m not sure you need to do it engage, we could find a way to do that. You know, of course, how you get, you would have to get that word out around what that means it looks like for people so that we’re encouraging people to to fill up that information.

Unknown Speaker 2:21:55
I think it’s probably pretty easy to build the form and then download it, I think the work would be just in letting folks know and how we communicate that. Yes, but I don’t see a lot of work on the form.

Unknown Speaker 2:22:07
Okay. So you’re really wanted that to be with the existing resources? The other the other piece? And I guess, for the the tenant, the tenant part, I would, you know, I would like to see, and I don’t know, Mayor, can you tell me if this is different than what because I had a few, a few different notes. But I really want staff to use that to look at our process, and adjust what our process is, in order to ensure that both tenant and landlords feel adequately represented in this process.

Unknown Speaker 2:22:52
I, I think that I understand what you’re saying and how the motion should go. So we do have someone who is actively working with the landlords and holding monthly meetings. But we do not have that for the tenant side. We do not have someone who is highlighted, I guess, as the tenant, contact person. Mm hmm. And the ability to hold meetings for tenants only for education, for etc. And I think that that equity piece is what I’m looking for. And I don’t see any problem with having people decide that they would let us know if they’re if they have a rental. But if we have that already and can and gather that data already and put it in a spreadsheet. Then at this point, I don’t know that we need to go any further with it. Okay, so Councillor Martin has a comment. You’re muted Marsha.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:09
If you go back to the presentation from July 1, the council meeting where the direction was given, I believe that this should at least be investigated. There are there are two sources of this information the county assessor’s database and the census tract data and both clearly say whether the property is owner occupied or whether it’s a rental. So I I don’t understand the point behind you know, doing something redundant to to get that information. And then in addition, maybe, maybe Harold or Glen can clarify. You know, we’re doing this assessment, which I assumed would be both supply and demand. You know, that would work in terms of what housing stock do we need? And the number of rentals in the system and the number of, of people who want to rent are both both part of that and my Miss conceiving of that study, or is Would that be correct?

Unknown Speaker 2:25:17
Are you referring to the Dola grant that we received?

Unknown Speaker 2:25:20

Unknown Speaker 2:25:24
I think we’re going to try to get at those issues and really understand what the demand is in this. We’ll have to work with staff to look at the existing databases to see how complete that list is. But that’s, that’s part of that work, is to do that, as part of the dollar. In turn, in terms of it’s going to be a point in time, though, because in terms of, you know, that markets always changing in terms of someone moving someone renting. So it’ll be it will be point in time.

Unknown Speaker 2:25:58
Yeah, I just don’t think you’d get any compliance out of out of a voluntary, I’m going to sign up and say, Hey, I’m renting. But yeah, it doesn’t we should vote on this. Cuz we’d still haven’t addressed the licensing program itself.

Unknown Speaker 2:26:22
Councilman, Councillor Hidalgo fairy,

Unknown Speaker 2:26:25
okay. So, yes, I will revise my, my motion. And I would like to remove the licensing component of it, including the registry, it sounds like we will, you know, if if staff determines it was very difficult to attain that data, we can relook at it at a different time. But right now, I really want to focus on creating an advocacy support network for our tenants, so that they, as well, you know, because you know, the perception and perception is our is our reality. And if we truly want you to have an inclusive community, we have to provide that tenant support component, as we’ve done with the landlord Alliance component. So I would like to move forward with that piece and just separate the two.

Unknown Speaker 2:27:17
So your new motion and council woman who doggo fairing is to direct staff to come with come up with an advocacy support network for tenants. Basically. I would you in? Would you change the support network to a contact person? contact person? Yes. Before tenant relations and on site, contact person, which I am going to say I like the word OmniPods. Yeah, person? Sure. This is making sense to you, Harold.

Unknown Speaker 2:28:07
Kind of I kind of reiterate what I’m hearing. Okay. And to help me if this gets what we’re trying to achieve. I think what I’m hearing emotion is you want us to evaluate what we’re doing now. And look at creating a process where tenants fill more

Unknown Speaker 2:28:41
I mean, back office? Pardon? Yep, they have a voice and that they’re still

Unknown Speaker 2:28:47
evaluate our process. So we it is also more tenant friendly, adequately represent, or they feel that we’re adequately representing both tenants and landlords? I think that’s what folks are saying. And I think if that’s the motion, we can definitely do it. We need to do it. If people don’t perceive that we can do this. We need to understand that in but if that’s the motion, I think that’s pretty simple and clear. And we can do that work. And then we can figure out doing Do we need anything else to do it? Because we don’t know what, you know, is it going to be a full time position you need? Is it going to be a halftime? Can we absorb it? You know, it’s hard for me to answer that right now. But I think if it’s an evaluation to ensure that we have something that adequately supports both tenants and landlords, so that they both feel, you know, that they can engage in the process. I think that’s it. I think that’s pretty easy, and we can do that work.

Unknown Speaker 2:29:48
Okay. Councilwoman dog fairing. Is this in lieu of a rental licensing program? Yes. And thank you. Okay. So The whole disk and I will second that, then I do want to say that I brought this up and in July and then put it on a later date at the end of the quarter because of what I’ve been hearing. And part of it was that, and this is in favor of landlords actually in property managers is that we there would be, there were people that were renting an entire house, or a three bedroom unit. And then they were renting out the bedrooms to families, and they weren’t on the the only person. Everybody who was in that unit needs to be on the lease, every adult. But they were not on the lease. So this came from a person in our community who runs programs. And that was the, that’s what I got from that person, which was why I was more in favor of landlords of protecting them. But we need equity. And for me for this motion, it is in lieu of a rental program completely. And let’s just focus at this point in time on having advocacy for tenants. And see how that works. Rather than, as Harold says, or told me, We don’t need a hammer to, you know, shatter something. We’ll move into it a little bit softer, and and see if we can open up to more discussion with the tenants having a voice. So that’s why that’s why I second the council, Councillor waters?

Tim Waters 2:31:48
Like one person that we’re talking about voice voice we haven’t heard from? We haven’t heard from it tonight. And we have heard from it in the other discussions about rental licensing is from Susan Spalding. Is there a reason? Harold or Karen, why we wouldn’t be hearing from Susan.

Unknown Speaker 2:32:09
Not particularly reason I think today we were focusing on the survey, and specifically the motion on whether we move forward with a rental licensing inspection. And and that program. And that was really rooted in the survey, in this case.

Tim Waters 2:32:30
So the person who knows more about this, about what we’re doing about what we currently do with in terms of advocating for, for tenants, it seems to Spalding knows more about it than anybody in this on the screen. I think maybe with the exception of Karen, and we’re not hearing from her before we take a vote on this. That doesn’t make any sense to me. So it’s not that I’m unsympathetic to advocacy for tenants. But I’m not going to vote for a motion to direct Susan Spaulding to do something. And and we haven’t heard on our team. And we have had no input from Susan, that makes no sense to me at all.

Unknown Speaker 2:33:08
And Manpack, if I can add to that, please. I think that’s really what with when Harold mentioned that I think what we heard pretty clearly from City Council is the opportunity to really evaluate and explore the services that we are providing to landlord and landlords and tenants in our community Neighborhood Resource Program. The perception that certainly that council members, some council members our hearing is that it doesn’t it doesn’t feel balanced sometimes or that or that tenants maybe have didn’t feel like maybe information or services aren’t accessible. That certainly is like I mentioned, that’s that’s not the intent. And I would be remissed. To to if I didn’t say that, that certainly is not the intention of that of that program and the commitment from Susan and Adrienne and the staff. So it would be fabulous to be able to have the opportunity to take this input and, and bring back, you know, a presentation. And, you know, I think the council member waters suggestion is that we would love to have that opportunity to explore the concerns and bring back for further discussion with city council about any improvements that we might need to make to address some of the concerns that we’re hearing.

Unknown Speaker 2:34:37
Good point, Karen and and just as a reminder, this is nothing more than to put it on a future agenda. So whatever that encompasses, whatever players we need to bring into this. The net future agenda item would that’s when we would do that. Counts.

Unknown Speaker 2:34:59
Order Really, I I’m uncomfortable with doing a future agenda order in combination with in lieu of the, the licensing program. So I would feel more comfortable separating the motion to table the licensing program from the motion to look into better tenant empowerment. So could we vote on just tenant empowerment? And then I would like to make a motion to table the lamp, the licensing program.

Unknown Speaker 2:35:39
Good point. Okay. So, we have the motion from counselor, Hidalgo, fairing that we are going to have an advocacy support for tenants bring that back on future agenda that we would like a presentation from, from staff on how we can have and using the resources that we have to have a tenant advocacy. System and program. Counselor waters

Tim Waters 2:36:23
um, so I’ve heard network program, resource person or I mean, I honestly I’m not certain what we’d be asking for. I’m with councilmember Martin in in Tabeling, any direction on rental licensing that we’ve seen from the data, that’s not going to be the solution to we know that it’s a problem, or that

Unknown Speaker 2:36:48
we don’t have don’t we’re gonna make that motion. Well,

Tim Waters 2:36:51
I get that I’m just only finishing. If the motion I mean, if the direction is to ask Susan to come back and tell us what we’re doing now. And then decide whether or not there’s a problem to solve, or how much more we need to do. That would be a sequence I can understand. But But taking a motion to give direction to either create a network or a program or somebody I mean, I’m not even certain what it is, before we hear from Susan so we get some idea of the scope, the depth the nature of the problem of the challenge from those who know most about it seems to me that would be the sequence the first get the presentation then decide whether or not there’s direction we need to give about creating an IT network or whatever. I’m not still not certain exactly what it is where we would be directing Susan to or even reporting on other than tell us what we’re doing and where the gaps are and what else we need to do to make certain that tenants are well represented. Thank you

Unknown Speaker 2:37:52
so I’m going to restate that motion counselor Hidalgo ferry let me know if this is the what your intent was. So the motion then is to give direction to staff to bring back a presentation on on what kind of advocacy support we have for tenants Councillor Hidalgo Perrin, give me a thumbs up if you think that’s the motion we want. Okay. So I second that motion. All those in favor, say aye. Aye mean or raise your hand all those posts so that pass is with three in support for that doesn’t pass.

Unknown Speaker 2:39:05
You had four council members. Yourself council member Hidalgo Ferring. Councilmember Martin in councilmember Yarborough for it. Councilmember Rodriguez and Councilmember waters against

Unknown Speaker 2:39:21
Thank you. This discussion is going on so long. I think I’m getting blurry. So that passed with for four of us as Harold Dominguez stated. I’m in favor into with Councillor waters and Councillor Rodriguez opposed. Now, Councillor Martin, do you want to make your motion?

Unknown Speaker 2:39:43
Yes. I move to postpone indefinitely, I think is the right thing to do any consideration of a landlord tenant or a rental licensing and inspection program At this time I’ll second

Unknown Speaker 2:40:07
I would like to amend that to say I’m table the motion to a date uncertain, rather than your muted.

Unknown Speaker 2:40:20
Yeah, I was just verbally waving my hands. So yeah, I’ll use that language. That’s fine.

Unknown Speaker 2:40:27
Okay, so that has been. The motion is to table the rental licensing agreement to a date uncertain. by Councillor Martin seconded by Councillor waters. All those in favor? Raise your hand. All those opposed? So that passes unanimously, thank you. I personally think that we needed to have a discussion about this. Number one, so that tenants know we’re listening, and that landlords know that we are we care a lot about our residents in this city, and how we are treating them and how the landlords are being treated by tenants. So thank you for the discussion. We are now at the second public invited to be heard the final call. It’s time to call in now for final mayor. We have I’m sorry, we

Unknown Speaker 2:41:23
do. A couple more.

Unknown Speaker 2:41:26
I would like to invite you, Dawn for this is the 20/22. City council meeting calendar. If, if I’m correct what I what we did was to change our calendar to three meetings a month. And we said at the end of the first quarter, we would look at that and see how it worked. So Don, thank you. Yes, exactly,

Unknown Speaker 2:41:51
Mayor, and we now just need to schedule the rest of the year. And so we presented a possible calendar for the rest of year based on the three meetings per month scenario. That certainly is not action you have to take, we could put in any schedule you you would like to adopt. But we made that assumption and presented a calendar in your packet, and we could walk through those months one by one. And then also Harold would like us to consider how to weave in LA che Board of Commissioners meetings. Harold, you’re welcome to add more about that.

Unknown Speaker 2:42:33
I think one of the things that we were looking at is when we look at the time on some of these meetings, especially ones where we have lmha items, it does create some issues. And and so in terms of the Ellijay board meetings, we can use the remaining day that or we could use that for Tuesday to do that. And then if we needed it for some reason for city activities, we could do it there or week, we could look at a different day for the LH a meetings. But we do know that that’s kind of a pinch point. In terms of the meeting length, generally when we have those LH items, and we’re going to have as we’re moving into development, we’re going to have more coming in on that. But that’s up to council as to what you all want to do. If you want to stick with the three days we can stick with the three days. But it was really that LH a piece that we need to keep in mind on this one.

Unknown Speaker 2:43:31
So um, before I call on you, I see your hand counselor Martin, but I would like to make statement i i thought when we decided to go to the three days by majority vote, that we would debrief at the end of the first quarter and see how that worked for staff as well as for counsel. Did that work as far as so? Harold, if you end on with the scheduling, can you give us a statement or two as to how that has worked for you in this first quarter? Did you like it? Did you not? Was it easier?

Unknown Speaker 2:44:10
Alright, Dawn go cuz Don’s on it has to prepare these every week. And so that I mean, every you know, every week she was having to get this. So let her talk about that. Then I can talk generally about some of the other items.

Unknown Speaker 2:44:23
Okay, thank

Unknown Speaker 2:44:24
you. You know, Mayor Peck, thank you for for asking that question. I think it has reduced the need to you know, it’s one less Council packet per week, one less set of minutes in that regard. But I think in terms of the question we all had our eye on, and Harold can speak maybe more to this. I I think we wondered if the flow of items would be too much on three meetings a month. And I think we’ve done a pretty meetings have been reasonably balanced. They haven’t run to 1am and I think staff is Getting the business done they need by and large. So in that regard, from my perspective, I think it has functioned fairly well.

Unknown Speaker 2:45:08
Thank you, Harold.

Unknown Speaker 2:45:10
Um, I think what we had to do as staff is really force a further look and planning, and in terms of issues in what we’re looking at, and that’s really based on how we can structure the agendas. And what that really looks like, I think, in some cases for staff that inadvertently ended up having something on every meeting, I mean, that was a press because they were spending a fair amount of time just getting Council coms ready. In addition to the other work, I think the challenge that I saw, and this is why I brought up the Housing Authority is that became an interesting dilemma for us when we only had the three meetings because fitting that in when you’re loading these other issues, then became an another challenge for us. And so that’s why I said, we’re we’re going to have to figure out something for the housing authority meetings. And if we want to put that on that other Tuesday, I think that streamlines it a little bit. And then if we need it for other city items, we could do that as well. But generally, I think we’re shifting into being being able to adapt, but it definitely has taken some pressure off on folks that are constantly in some people just get in the role of having items in you know, almost every study session in every meeting. And when you look at the time on that, you know, if you go two to three hours, you know, pulling the item together, probably closer to five in the week. I mean that that could be additional workload for him. So I think we can obviously accommodate whatever council wants, but we’re getting used to it.

Unknown Speaker 2:47:03
So I’d like to open it up to the counselors then on what how it has worked for you, Councillor Martin.

Unknown Speaker 2:47:09
Thank you, Mayor Peck. I will I have I have essentially two things to say. But I think city manager Dominguez has has maybe hit on something that would that would make everybody happy. You’re bipolar, putting the lhsaa commissioners meeting on the fourth Tuesday? Because this is terribly unpopular with the public. They think we’re slacking No, I don’t think we’re slacking. But it is but I just have to say it’s really unpopular that we don’t meet four times a month anymore. And the other thing is, um, personally, it’s been bad for me, I have felt disconnected from the flow of of the council meetings. And I think especially since we’re going after this month back to meeting in person, that if we meet four times a month, and there’s an even if one of them is a commissioners meeting, then still we come together and still the public are are you know are seeing us meet and are present and are invited to be heard. So, I would like to move that we go to a four meeting a month schedule with the fourth meeting designated as a an LH a commissioners meeting, but can be used for another purpose if the LH a doesn’t need the meeting.

Tim Waters 2:48:50
I’ll second that motion.

Unknown Speaker 2:48:52
Hey, it’s been a motion to have four meetings a month with one of them being a flex meeting or an LH a commissioners meeting, and that has been seconded by Councillor waters, Councillor MedPro Tim Rodriquez.

Unknown Speaker 2:49:10
Thank you, Mayor Peck, I would just like to add my two cents in the sense that lately, our lhg meetings have been somewhat ad hoc. And when you look at those that is more difficult, actually, for myself, in terms of my work life schedule, and I assume it’s actually more difficult for my other council members who are maybe not retired, in the sense that if we know we can plan ahead of schedule for Tuesday night meetings, for instance. And so that makes it a lot easier for us to possibly do FHA Commissioner meetings. And so I have no problem with designating Tuesdays It is it’s just easier to play in for instead of some ad hoc meetings. And so, you know, I’d love to hear the opinions of my fellow council members who also worked full time currently. Because I feel like they will have more input as far as how it works for their schedules, then, you know, maybe myself or for some of the other council members, so thank you.

Unknown Speaker 2:50:26
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem, counselor, Hidalgo thing.

Unknown Speaker 2:50:29
Okay, um, thank you. And thank you, Councilmember Rodriguez for pointing that out. Um, I know, for me, I just my Tuesdays, I have my staff meeting, right after school, I’ll come and do my I just know, my Tuesdays My family knows, Tuesdays, everybody leave me alone. I have Wednesdays, those are my meetings. Um, and I think so the problem that I’ve had with the we have a meeting, we don’t have a meeting, it becomes a challenge for me scheduling. But the other piece, too, it’s like, it’s not a, you know, it’s not about me, really, I want to look at what the impact that it has on staff, you know, they’ve been able to make it work, they’ve been able to get used to it. I just worry that in the event, as we start having more and more things come to our to be added to our, our schedule. Maybe they all fall at the same time, or they’re all heavy topic items, like some a couple of things that I thought was easy, I didn’t work correctly. So hold on that. And it became it became a larger discussion. And then I think we run the risk of then having those 1am meetings, you know, so I just, if we have those weekly meetings, keep it as you know, as we have in the past, you know, might shorten those those times that we are meeting. For me, scheduling wise, it’s easy just to block my Tuesdays aside, if staff and the rest of council decide I want that extra, you know, the ad hoc meeting, day set aside, I’ll go with that, too. So, you know, be flexible, but my preference would be just to let’s keep consistency, please.

Unknown Speaker 2:52:26
Counselor, Yarbro, do you want to weigh in on how this affected you?

Unknown Speaker 2:52:31
Well, I guess I probably, you know, being on council in general, affect me period. Because, I mean, this is all new to me. So, you know, in that, you know, in that way, you all have been on council previously, so you were in a routine before. So I will say I appreciate even given the opportunity to try it out, you know, so I do appreciate that. And also, you know, staff had an opportunity to see how they can function with a three, three a month as well. So for me, I know, I’m the newest member, so all of this is absolutely new to me. So it seems like it affected you all and you know, much worse than it did myself. But again, I never had to really depend on every Tuesday night. You know, I have meetings every week, you know, but not particularly every Tuesday night to depend on that. So whatever is best for staff and you know, I mean we all received those emails people feeling like we’re not doing our job, although you know, people are coffee with counsel we attend and all these other meetings in and then like the rest of us, the three of us that actually worked full time and scrambled to get to these meetings as well and do our homework. Um, yeah, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s challenging, but we are here before our community, so whatever is best for the community and whatever is best for the staff. I’m all for it. I just appreciate you know the rest of you all for even trying it out. And so I just want to say thank you for that.

Unknown Speaker 2:54:22
Hey, these are good comments. So we do have a motion on the table. To let me see if I can reiterate this. The motion is to have three meetings a month, three Tuesday’s a month with the fourth Tuesday if there are four for third fourth Tuesday’s in a month to be a flex or L H a commissioner meeting today basically be scheduled ahead. I have staff scheduled that fourth that fourth meeting, however it suits Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 2:55:01
mean, I would think the LH a meeting would come first. And and a study session if it’s not, but so that was the way I moved it. But

Unknown Speaker 2:55:11
okay, thank you. And Harold, you had your hand up,

Unknown Speaker 2:55:15
I was just going to confirm the for Tuesday would be in LA J. And if for some reason there was a scheduling issue, we could create a study session, or regular. I mean, we’ve gotten into issues where we have grants or even like Costco where we’ve had to hit something we could schedule it as, right. So if we hit it as a as an l ha, and if we needed it, we could use it.

Unknown Speaker 2:55:38
Okay. Sounds good.

Unknown Speaker 2:55:40
And Mayor, if I could also just clarify. When we say the fourth Tuesday, we don’t mean specifically the fourth Tuesday of the month, we mean, the extra meeting, definitely the three are scheduled correct for two days a month. Correct. Thank you, I just want to make sure I captured it correctly.

Unknown Speaker 2:55:57
And remember, there are some months, March, for example, is one where we just wouldn’t have it because of seeing National League of Cities and spring break for those into those are months that we can figure out the Housing Authority agenda where we can shift it if needed in those months, where we have those challenges,

Unknown Speaker 2:56:22
and staffs very good at that. And so that’s the motion on the table seconded by Councillor waters, Councillor waters.

Tim Waters 2:56:31
Just to clarify, Harold, there’s nothing in this motion that constrains what we need to do in September and October with because you because you can just call those the special meeting or the whatever the fourth meeting and and do the budget work that we need to do? Yeah, now

Unknown Speaker 2:56:47
in this calendar, if you will see September, even with this. We did, we did say in this calendar, the due to the need to present the 2023 budget in September and October, we recommended keeping all meetings as proposed based on that because of the budget cycle. But you know, that would be one where then the LE che we’re going to have to plan so that we can hit October and August on the LA JPS that we don’t take a lot of time in September.

Tim Waters 2:57:19
So you’re comfortable with this motion. Good. You can use those meetings in September and October. Yes, it can break in any form or for any reason that we need. All right.

Unknown Speaker 2:57:32
And it does also give those folks that are having to turn these Council agendas and do all of that. Some time to get minutes and items ready to so it lets us focus on lmha and have a date that we can focus on because it’s equally challenging for us. And we have to schedule these meetings at hoc based on our schedules as well. So I think that helps with lmha stuff.

Unknown Speaker 2:57:58
Okay, we have a motion on the table. All those in favor? Raise your hand. All those opposed? So that passes unanimously. Thank you. So Donna, we’re going to go through the calendar now.

Unknown Speaker 2:58:15
We certainly could we probably should just to make sure that we are all understanding well, where we’re headed very quickly. Dallas, do you mind putting the calendar up and so we can all look at it. So you would have if proposed or if you adopt as approach proposed le J on the fifth? Usually la would fall perhaps on the first Tuesday in the month and then a regular study in a regular session in April. Does that show just run through and then you can we can go back to funny dates. Okay. Moving to may Dallas. So we’d have an LH a meeting on the third a regular study a regular we have a fifth Tuesday. If there’s some hot topic, and we needed it, but likely fifth Tuesday’s we usually don’t have moving on to June, June would be tight. We could do an LH a meeting on the seventh, perhaps coupled with a study session, depending on volume, a regular session cancel the 21st for CML and then regular meeting on the 28th.

Unknown Speaker 2:59:28
That’s that’s probably one where we would plan the LH a meetings for me. And then let’s look at July.

Unknown Speaker 2:59:36
Correct? Yeah, you could use that fifth Tuesday and may perhaps instead of the first Tuesday in June, moving into July. So you would have a la chain meeting on the fifth and then a regular meeting. And we do want to confirm you want the open forum there but that’s where it would fall in kind of your normal rotation. And then a regular meeting on the 26th Moving on to August, you’d have an LH a meeting on the second. There’s five Tuesday’s in August. So a regular study and then a regular meeting. And then there’s a fifth Tuesday there. If if it were needed, but perhaps not screwed scooting on to September. This is when we have all meetings scheduled. So steady, regular, steady, regular kind of regular cadence. On to October. Same thing, steady, regular, steady regular for those budget meetings. November is a little bit tight, we could do a study or work around November for LA J, or do a study NLJ you can work through, cancel the election day meeting, and then a regular session, we could cancel or hold that count the meeting the week of Thanksgiving, and then a regular session on the 29th. Doing it this way, keeps the two weeks between regular sessions and allows ordinances to follow that regular pattern and then the required notice time between meetings. So that’s why I tried to find the two weeks between and then moving to December Dallas, because December is strained with the holidays. The regular meeting the first Tuesday, a study the second Tuesday and in a regular on the 20th cancel the 27th

Unknown Speaker 3:01:30
for the holiday.

Unknown Speaker 3:01:34

Unknown Speaker 3:01:37
it felt to me it’s good to you. It does have a counselor Martin, how do you feel about it? Oh, well, the

Unknown Speaker 3:01:44
last day in the fifth, the fifth Tuesday in August could could be the LH a meeting so we would be safer not doing them in September and October, right.

Unknown Speaker 3:01:57
Yeah, and I don’t know Jim’s on. I think we’re gonna need that to give you all the budget.

Unknown Speaker 3:02:02
Or that

Unknown Speaker 3:02:04
because of Jim, we’re required right to give him the budget by August 31.

Unknown Speaker 3:02:13
So Jim’s not on tonight.

Unknown Speaker 3:02:15
Vacation. Yep.

Unknown Speaker 3:02:17
Yeah. Okay. So I think that’s the one we’re gonna need for the budget anyway. But we can work through the LH a piece of it and maybe LH a budget.

Unknown Speaker 3:02:26
Is there anyone that is suppose Oh, I’m sorry.

Unknown Speaker 3:02:29
We’re normally coming into the last minute on the budget giving it to you? Well,

Unknown Speaker 3:02:34
I think that’s what I was trying to get through. But I said flex flex ability is that Steph Steph knows how to do this. So is there anyone that is opposed to this calendar? Great. All those in favor of just accepting the calendar as is. Should I suppose we should have a motion on that. Or can we shall move. Second, all those in favor of accepting the calendar as presented. Thank you that passes. Thanks for doing all that work done.

Unknown Speaker 3:03:13
You’re very welcome. And we will plan the open forum and for that. Just reconfirming your open forum we had canceled. We’ll hold it July 19. In person. All goes well for all of us. We’ll get back to the normal normalcy.

Unknown Speaker 3:03:27
Yeah, we never know any more do we?

Unknown Speaker 3:03:29
Thank you much.

Unknown Speaker 3:03:30
We’re now we are at the final call public invited to be heard. We will. We will display the information on the screen please mute your live stream and dial in now. We’re going to take a five minute break to give everyone time to get dialed in. Thank you

Unknown Speaker 3:08:26
Mayor packing Council we’re about 30 seconds out from the five minute mark. Currently there are no callers waiting

Unknown Speaker 3:08:42
Thank you, Dallas.

Unknown Speaker 3:08:44
Let’s, let’s get started on the rest of the meeting then.

Unknown Speaker 3:08:48
Sure thing. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 3:08:53
So it is time for the final call public invited to be heard Dallas, do we have anybody in the waiting room?

Unknown Speaker 3:09:01
We do not Mayor Peck.

Unknown Speaker 3:09:03
Thank you. So now it’s time for mayor and council comments. Do we have any comments from Councillor Hidalgo fairing?

Unknown Speaker 3:09:15
I’ll keep this brief because I know I sucked up a lot oxygen this tonight. Apologize. I want I want to thank staff for the meeting last night. They I think they it was a very productive meeting. It was very insightful. And it was very passionate. The caller was not wrong in saying that. It was a very passionate night. But I really appreciate how a staff handled especially Carmen Harold. Well in all, you know, who were who were who were discussing. You know, they really helped just kind of mediate the calm that that you all executed. I just I greatly appreciate it. We’re very fortunate to have you guys on staff So yeah, I just wanted to express my gratitude for that. The other thing is I had shared before that the steam Sugar Mill project, were working my school Mike, my grade level, in fact, are working on the kid portion with growing up Boulder, we’ve partnered with growing up boulder to do a redesign where our students are actually creating the, you know, what they would like to see in that space. So this Thursday, we will be presenting to the developers or actually I won’t be my kids, the kids well, but they’re the kids in my building. So at Indian Peaks, and so they’re very excited. Families are very, are very thrilled and very proud of the kids that the work that they’ve the kids have produced. They’ve done a lot of research and the history. And it’s it was just it was very heartwarming to see that them put their thought process and all the educators over it at Indian Peaks who really worked with them to to help him become a reality. So yep, so this Thursday, they’ll be presenting to developers and growing up Boulder, and I believe Aaron Fosdick may be able to pop in so so she’ll be able to offer her input as well. So

Unknown Speaker 3:11:21
thank you, councillor. Good, don’t go fairing. Is there anyone else? Councillor waters?

Tim Waters 3:11:27
Thanks, Mayor pack. I’m thinking about last night’s meeting and what we’ve read in various parts of the times call and the Longmont leader, and I know that there’s a lot of chatter on on social media platforms about Third Avenue. And I don’t know that anybody who cares about Third Avenue would be listening to this meeting. But I think we got to get on the record in this setting so that we could refer people to it. What happens when somebody go registers a resident registers a complaint with one of us what we’re obligated to do with that complaint. And then what code enforcement or public works in natural resources or whatever the department or community services and Susan Spaulding, or some other aspect of our youth and family division or whatever, we get complaints. We forward those complaints on either to Harold or to the appropriate department here. And they take it from there. They’ll make the comment last night, this is not a policy issue. Council doesn’t direct staff. All we do is pass along from residents. What the concern is, if there’s a code enforcement code violation, and code enforcement gets involved in this case, it was code enforcement, I think plus engineering department. And I heard and I inherits getting pressure to be creative. Right, which I heard that last night get creative. That sounded to me like don’t enforce what we what our engineering department has said is health and safety. They’re addressing a health and safety risk with enforcing our our parking ordinances. So here, I’d be curious if we if you made the decision, or public safety made the decision not to enforce parking ordinances, once our engineering department has said, We’ve got to health, potential health and safety risks here are the liabilities for the city. If you if you or we city chose not to enforce our parking ordinances, because that’s how this got started. Citizen complaint. All the council member did or council members did was pass it along. City picked it up engineering did their job code enforcement’s done their job. Now we know there’s a potential risk. If we if we take a step back, don’t enforce what we know to be a parking ordinance. What are the what are the implications for the city?

Unknown Speaker 3:14:03
ferati muted

Unknown Speaker 3:14:07
when we’re made aware of a situation and and we go through the processes, we have to respond accordingly to the situation. If we don’t it does create liability issues in different levels of different places, depending on what it is. Especially if it’s in the nature of the processes that we go through which are established by ordinates. Slightly different question is in police side because you’re going to hear this police have some discretion, you know, somebody’s speeding they have those issues. But but in terms of this, we have to we have to address it appropriately as the code dictates that we address it in what we go through. As we talked about, in this case, When Jim went back out, and looked at what the fire station, probably not great, but we were gonna have to adjust again. But he saw what he needed to see to do it. And we’re adjusting accordingly. But in terms of what we saw on some of these other issues that engineering has, has outlined that, which is why we talked about the other issues, it puts us in a quandary. Because if we don’t enforce on one, how do we enforce on another in that becomes an issue for us. And that’s why I said last night, I have to be able to look at the resident, and another area or a resident in another area where we’ve done this and make sure that we’re consistent across the community. And we have an obligation to look at the broader issues. And there’s, there’s many issues on Third Street, which we talked about last night, of which, when we go through these projects, we’re going to look at a solution to those. In other cases, we would go to the solution on the front end, but because of the projects, we didn’t want to do something, then we would have to tear out and then go on and so but yeah, we have to follow the ordinances, and what’s in there. And for me, the one thing I asked staff is, no matter where you are, no matter what you’re doing, I need to be able to say that we’ve done the same thing in both locations.

Tim Waters 3:16:27
follow on question, if an advisory board, transportation board or any board advised us or advised you not to enforce an ordinance once you know that there’s a health and safety risk. What would you do with that advice? What do

Unknown Speaker 3:16:45
I have professional ethics? And I have other issues that I have to adhere to? And those guide me?

Tim Waters 3:16:52
Yeah. And I you vote, you’ve acknowledged that we dropped the ball on the communication effort. Right, and in communicating with neighbors, but that wasn’t going to be there was not going to be an approach I don’t believe, to ask the the residents, should we enforce parking ordinances? Or, you know, can we enforce parking ordinances? You or is it is it not true that we were going to we’re going to be obligated to enforce the parking ordinance once that once the engineering staff did their job?

Unknown Speaker 3:17:28
Yeah, I think what we would have said was we come in, in our community involvement pilot format that we have, and you know, the base section is informed, we’re going to go out and tell folks what we’re doing. I think even in the form stage, you learned some things too. And, and so we have tears that we go through. And even within those tears, there’s places where we’re saying, Here’s what we saw, here’s what we need to do. And we’re letting you know, and we go in and we move forward. So, you know, in what would have been different, I think in this one is maybe the questions on Sherman, and the fire truck coming in. And in doing that, that may have come in on the front end, and it may not have been as robust of an issue. And I think that’s where that neighborhood communications important and to really talk about, you know, what do we learn from this?

Tim Waters 3:18:22
There’s certainly, yeah, I mean, yeah, there’s a lot to learn. Let me ask one more question. It’s a hypothetical. And it may be a stretch, but but not totally. If you got creative enough to not enforce or you suspended enforcement of traffic, park our parking ordinance or ordinances on third and on those side streets, and owners of RVs decided now’s a good time to park there. On third, or on the side streets. Would you have? Where would we be to say, oh, you can’t park there. But somebody else came.

Unknown Speaker 3:18:59
It’s an issue.

Tim Waters 3:19:02
I just think folks ought to be thinking about that. You get creative enough to not enforce ordinances, you better be careful what you wish for.

Unknown Speaker 3:19:10
So we’re going to have another discussion on this later, as you’ve said in the in the meeting last night. On a What time was that? Harold?

Unknown Speaker 3:19:24
We didn’t say we said we’re willing to have another conversation if people wanted to present we talked about mediation. I have had folks reach out to me in terms of giving us a name so we can move into the mediation component on this one.

Unknown Speaker 3:19:39
Okay. And I think that that, that’s what we should do. So we can we can continue these conversations in public. And those questions should be answered then at that time as well. So Are there comments on a different subject, Councillor Martin? Because I have to be honest, it’s 1020. If these aren’t just counselor comments rather than huge discussions, we should probably put them on a meeting. Rather than just comment.

Unknown Speaker 3:20:09
I don’t think I can make a huge discussion. Okay, I would like to just say that I feel like there are some missed constructions of what the city process actually is or ought to be going on. And I do feel that it’s important to correct them. Parking Signs, whether there was a neighborhood letter or not, aren’t enough of a disruption to things for a Charette. And so, you know, there might have been a little neighborhood informational meeting where there might have just been a letter, which was the way Tyler Stamey told me that it was set up that it was just going to be a letter. But the thing is twice in the four years that I’ve been on council, there have been big neighborhood meetings where, you know, input was solicited about street redesigns. One of them was pike Road, where people were also extremely passionate. And one of them was the intersection of Ken Pratt Boulevard and hoever, where there was actually a Charette. And people came to the service center and walked around and put dots on maps. And there was not a lot of passion about that. But there certainly was a lot of public input. And then the last four years, there might have been a couple more that were up up north and I, you know, didn’t participate in them because it wasn’t my word. I am not clear as to whether, you know, the resurfacing and and reuse, you know, utility repairs and stuff on Third Avenue rose to that level or not. But it wasn’t the same as the deal with the parking signs, you know, there would have been a new public meeting that started after that, to let people know about the utilities and the resurfacing and on what schedule, they should plan to have those things happen. So I just am unhappy with the idea that that the staff screwed it up because, you know, it didn’t it got mashed together into what should have been two things got mashed together into one by the public outcry, but I don’t think the staff screwed it up.

Unknown Speaker 3:22:36
Thank you, Councillor Martin, do we have comments from any other councillors? I did have some things to say but I’m going to put them off on next week, there are only two that I wanted to inform you about. The first one is that James Eamon from the Stewart foundation corrected me that I had said that his 100 Most every four year old in Longmont would start in 2023 attacks are going to start this year. So that was a good correction. And I’m still happy about that. Also on Saturday, December 12. It’s going to be the first of quarterly conversations with the mayor and Mayor Pro Timur Aaron Rodriguez is going to join me along with some staff and this one will be about homelessness at the Lashley street fire station from nine to 10am. So I would like to invite the public to that. If we do have a couple of minutes, I do want to I do want to tell you, this was the Northwest mayors and commissioners coalition fly in because we’re usually in DC to meet with representatives in their offices on their home ground. So we have three or four meetings today with different representatives. And the one that I do want to tell you about is with Congressman Perlmutter. We talked about it with all of the representatives basically about excuse me, the climate change and the fires that were in Lewisville and superior and the resources that were out there, specifically one of them being and I’m going to pull it up real fast because I forgot the number of the article. It’s basically an article that’s called carrots and sticks. But it is House Bill I’m sorry, Senate Bill 22 Zero 51, which basically is reducing a policy to reduce emissions from built environment. This bill is four heat pumps but it’s only it’s for heat pumps and for storage on renewable energy, but it is basically to have tax credits as well as as well as building environment what? What kind of building? I’ve been on here for too long. What kind of building materials to build green a developer can use and get tax credits for. I asked Senator or Congressman Perlmutter that most of the grants most of the funding is for, based upon the HUD Ami. What do we have? Or what can we do for the attainable housing aspect? Because people and I was using the Firestone that everyone was not necessarily in that HUD Ami. There were some people there who actually made more money, but their insurance didn’t cover it. And what could we do? And I found it very interesting, because I was looking at what could we do in Longmont as well for the the attainable housing, and he said that there, there’s quite a bit of money still in the state of from the ARPA funds. And what he would suggest is that we go to the energy, the Office of Energy on the state, and apply for some of that money in a sense that it would go toward

Unknown Speaker 3:26:34
renewable, or I’m sorry, green, green building, with heat pumps, etc, in the form of rebates, and form of the tax credits, etc. So I have passed this information on do a sustainability committee to help look into this, and how can we get perhaps a bill that will help us be able to build green, which is one of our visions, and are 100% renewable by 2030 also cuts some of the building costs for attainable housing, if we can get heat pumps, different types of electrical building, if we can get green materials and get some kind of a funding source through the Energy Department of the state, then I was very excited, actually, an interested in what Congressman Perlmutter told, told us that we could really go that direction instead of going through Dola through CDPH, G, R, etc. So that’s all I wanted to tell you about. And I talked really fast to hopefully get it all in. So thank you. Any other comments from anyone? If not, we’ll open it up to the city manager remarks. Darrell, do you have anything for us?

Unknown Speaker 3:28:05
Mayor Council, I just want to say last night, I told you we’ve implemented some things we’re going to look at, I wanted you to know that. I’ve been talking to Carmen and so on any project that we have going on, I want them to do a quick touch point and neighborhood services, so that they can understand what’s going on in the neighborhoods and the issues because every every location is different. And so we’re going to close that loop on it. And I’m going to be working as I look to the future on some things that really helped us refine that process. So we can be on top of things in the future. So I just wanted to let you all know that. Other than that. No further comments.

Unknown Speaker 3:28:48
Thank you. How about from our city attorney? Eugene.

Unknown Speaker 3:28:54
Mayor, based on the feedback I got from staff about my comments earlier on cash in lieu, I just want to clarify, if you haven’t paid your cash in lieu yet, now that the new resolution is in place, you would be subject to the new fee. I was thinking. I said if your application was submitted, I was thinking about Final plat. And so that ordinance is now effective and those in the development process that aren’t at final plat yet would be subject to the new cashflow.

Unknown Speaker 3:29:28
Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. So that is about it for this meeting. Can I have a motion to adjourn? So moved. Thank you second. Counselor, Hidalgo fairy. All right. We are all those in favor of adjournment. Please raise your hand. All those opposed. We are adjourned. Thank you so much for the discussions tonight.