Longmont Water Board Meeting – November 2021

Video Description:
Longmont Water Board Meeting – November 2021

Note: The following is the output of transcribing from a video recording. Although the transcription, which was done with software, is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or [software] transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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Unknown Speaker 0:00
call the meeting to order. Roll call. Yes. Tom Williams is not able to join us today

Unknown Speaker 0:09
Scott away. Roger lane. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 0:12
Alison Gould. Here about remote.

Unknown Speaker 0:17
Tom duster. In Houston, you’re Nelson Tipton. West Lowry your voting is not here fancy Jaffe here, Jason Elkins here. David Bell will be joining us later McIntyre’s here and then it looks like we have some other staff members to oil and breathe in Martin here as well. That’s member Martin is not able to join us today.

Unknown Speaker 0:51
Okay, thank you. Let’s start with the approval of the previous month’s minutes. Everybody’s had a chance to read them any comments

Unknown Speaker 1:07
of your purpose to care. I’ll second that. On favor, aye.

Unknown Speaker 1:18
Okay. We’re doing the water status report.

Unknown Speaker 1:24
Here I will

Unknown Speaker 1:29
go today the for the sake green treated Lions Gate did CFS, the 124 year historic average for this date is approximately 24 CFS. The color the same rain Creek is plus Bella. And the added number of 70 to two with a priority date of six 118 71. The column the main stem of the South River is Riverside canal Avenue number 21,031. With a very date of eight one 1907. Say st green basin storage at the beginning of November is 57% with the five year average storage at this time of year and 7%. So real close to the average storage. So right price reservoir reserve is currently at 6,380.6 feet, which is close to 13,786 acre feet. So we’re now at approximately 2400 feet from full and currently releasing 30 CFS. And you can read the words all the full. And we’re releasing sentences with us

Unknown Speaker 2:46
that that level down 2002 That pretty normal this time of year. It’s a

Unknown Speaker 2:52
little lower, but it’s pretty close at this time of year. We we as you guys all know

Unknown Speaker 2:56
we was can chime in but September was in October fairly dry. So we start to lower than

Unknown Speaker 3:07
average. But we’re pretty close.

Unknown Speaker 3:11
Any questions?

Unknown Speaker 3:12

Unknown Speaker 3:14
Okay, thank you. Okay. I’m inviting public invited to be heard I see one public person to be heard. So, I think your name is Jordan Peters.

Unknown Speaker 3:31
Hi, I’m Gordon Figaro 26 39,000. Dr. Baldwin, I’m here to speak of education policy review that you have on your agenda. West was good enough to make sure I got the information that I asked for. So I’m looking mostly at his staff report. But 1964 the policy was enacted by the city council and so therefore, it’s been around for a long time. And everybody that’s proposing to annex or develop our word that they have water raw water requirements that they must meet recent trends in the report in case it since 2015 to 2020, more cash in lieu has been utilized and submission of raw water. And when I look at the chart, it was in your packet from the comparisons for the region. It seems to me like it’s easy to see why the increase in cash in Lieu is going up and that is worth $18,528 Free and the most next one is 36,000 that goes all the way 75,003. So just looking at this and I understand from the lessons of communication, there are some nuances that have to be considered One of the things that it looks to me like is that raw water is one of the options. No prison netic saviors can, vocation little fate shall choose, it’s their option. I think that dication should be reflecting the real costs of water. And it’s not the more subsidizing. And discounting what we should be getting for arguing for what the median or water requirements, recent councils have indicated, they want more density in this community, which I don’t have a problem with. But more density me if we have more people who need You more. And climate change is a big, big unknown. And as far as I’m concerned, our community deserves to have the water it needs in the future. And that comes from water, it doesn’t come from mountains of cash. Now, I know that the cash is used for various things, and storage and all those type things. So I’m not trying to discount that it’s a complex issue. But I’m trying to say that this citizen leaves, and what we need to make sure is we have water, we have other options is the community. And the citizens have other options for getting money available to build storage facilities, those type things is called bonding. And we all know how that works. And we all have the right to vote on those. But you’re going to recommend that the city council a policy, maybe policy change, maybe not, but you’re going to be recommending rates or occasion move around. And I think this reflects the true cost for any developer, or personality thing knows he has to respond to it’s not that difficult. They’ve known since 1964, they were going to have sponsors, if they bring in water, it costs such and such if they’re going to cash and roll, which costs very similar to that same amount. And one of the things that I noticed in the last 10 years, is that just not every time the city council decides that they’re going to discount something or providing in city or a subsidy to a developer is that, quote, affordable housing gotta have affordable housing. Well, if you’re going to use that as a reason for discounting your recommendation to the council about what location we should be, I would like to see how you see those translating into real affordable housing, not just some theoretical will don’t get passed on my experience has been he gets passed on to the developer, it’s a windfall for him and I never gets transferred to the Affordable Health Care but

Unknown Speaker 7:50
I don’t see anybody else later on item number six, agenda revisions and submission of documents so you want to do the number 10 up to the top.

Unknown Speaker 8:13
Yes, if we could move 10 A the remote attendance policy to the first item or up to this item.

Unknown Speaker 8:23
So we do a

Unknown Speaker 8:26
lot of full participation to the rest of the meeting. And then also staff would propose to move item A which is the cash in the policy to Item nine D that’ll that will allow us to have basically the rest of the meeting we think we can get through there to the agenda pretty quickly and that’ll allow us we won’t have to worry about getting to the remainder of the agenda. Give us as much time as we need to talk the cash loop honestly I probably should have had it on nine anyway because we’re not you know it’s not we’re not asking for a recommendation that council yet. So probably shouldn’t shouldn’t have begin with so if we could move those to attend a in the appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 9:14
Okay, and a day you want that to follow item eight D 10 to 90

Unknown Speaker 9:21
The last item

Unknown Speaker 9:25
which is cash

Unknown Speaker 9:34
okay it’s gone either can a you know as you take down? Sure. Thank

Unknown Speaker 9:46
you very much. So we have in front of you. You one board may recall last month, we looked at the Water Board bylaws to allow for remote attendance. Also you may or may not. Remember, we specifically one word is simply acid that promoted tenants would be for water board members on an occasional basis. And they’re either out of town, ill or for some other reason unable to attend in person. So, we discussed last month, we would change the section two. So if you if you go to page 78 of your packet, that is your current bylaws with read, you know, mediation is what we talked about last month, we hopefully got that correct. There is one revision to this language that I would propose. That is I would say tenants of water board meeting shall be in person except during emergency situations, as well. I’ve got city long months electronic participation policy during city along my board and commission meetings. And then I would ask that we have comma as amended from time to time, this actual electronic attendance policy will go to council, like I believe it’s going to council later this month. And then if they make revisions to it, what we tried to do is we don’t have to amend the bylaws or whatever changes. So then the remainder is that point where members are expected to in person and almost out of town for health reasons. And then the other change the bylaws that was proposed.

Unknown Speaker 12:00
Oh, yeah, just referencing disruptors in section two, that WX Water Board’s attention last night, I think all board members have now also be able to vote today. Galton has her hand up.

Unknown Speaker 12:28
Did you want to say something else? I one point

Unknown Speaker 12:32
of clarification, if I may, um, as you guys may or may not know, my reason for not being able to be personally in attendance is my son is ill. So I was wondering if this proposed language would allow for absenteeism on such basis. It’s not my personal health, but it is health reasons. So that is something I’d like to clarify.

Unknown Speaker 13:04
Well, the way I read what can propose the last part of that statement are unable to attend due to health reasons. That can be construed as to not personal health and health reasons when an exam I would say so wonderfully

Unknown Speaker 13:21

Unknown Speaker 13:26
I think what is written there, Allison? Exterior concern? Okay.

Unknown Speaker 13:35
Yes, thank you very much. I appreciate that perspective. And thank you.

Unknown Speaker 13:42
Any other comments? Scott, you’ve had your input, you can come in again, if you want. Sorry? No,

Unknown Speaker 13:47
I actually think it’s written to cover what else and suggests I think it’s ambiguous enough that it can provide some latitude. If we wanted to specify every potential permutation of why you could miss or participate. That would be that wouldn’t would not be a good exercise. I was only going to suggest that we’ve got the bylaws of the water board here. We’ll need to change that date on January 25 2021, when we determine that we amend those to reflect the new day as I saw,

Unknown Speaker 14:18
I know right,

Unknown Speaker 14:20
but yeah, I’m good. I would also say that I mean, if we had to specify health reasons, and we have to maybe specify why people are out of town and that’s not a good sign. So I think this is great.

Unknown Speaker 14:36
too, is there a motion to approve the

Unknown Speaker 14:39
Mr. Chair with the amendment suggested by Mr. Hewson, I’d move to approve section twos. bylaw modification is rapid.

Unknown Speaker 14:49
Moved and seconded. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Perhaps so. Alex, welcome

Unknown Speaker 15:01

Unknown Speaker 15:06

Unknown Speaker 15:06
I would assume we’ll just move on to item seven ain’t over apartments, final plat action required. And you have any comments on that particular activity? Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 15:22
think also present to you.

Unknown Speaker 15:24
Yeah. So we did more extractivism information on Nova Park and small flat. It’s a 10.28 acre parcel located in north and south of sort of Nelson road. And that’s the holder Street. All the historic water rights, including 18, chairs of South flight bench company were transferred a time of annexation. That’s currently the total remaining rainwater deficit for mill apartments final plat is 3.434 acre feet or point 334 of an acre foot per acre of land. So Nova apartments on a flat will be in compliance with the no water requirements policy, upon satisfaction of our for our deficit. Additionally, I was just going to comment and let the board know that this particular final plat includes 552 units for the complex, so about 250 to 260, residential areas was part of this. Yeah, we like to show the map where that’s kind of it’s located behind behind Home Depot. And to the West is a general orientation, which

Unknown Speaker 16:51
is all apartments.

Unknown Speaker 16:53
Yes. In five in five buildings.

Unknown Speaker 16:59
Come to questions.

Unknown Speaker 17:03
Just because it relates a bit what we’re talking about today, do we have any ideas how their deficit?

Unknown Speaker 17:10
So what we typically found on a deficit of this size, which is relatively small, the developer will typically pay actually want to rent you see, to satisfy that deficit? And that’s what I would expect here

Unknown Speaker 17:30
are the questions? Or motion to approve. Mr. Chair, I

Unknown Speaker 17:42
move to approve. The man sure that the language is here was

Unknown Speaker 17:51
the board recommendation to city council to accept this.

Unknown Speaker 17:59
Thank you. Hi. Use your language in lieu of mind and make that motion? I was looking for

Unknown Speaker 18:05
a terminal. So I can go second. Second, all in favor, say aye.

Unknown Speaker 18:17
Aye. All right. And just to know, Alison voted

Unknown Speaker 18:22
in favor of as well.

Unknown Speaker 18:30
Yeah, she just didn’t order microphone.

Unknown Speaker 18:34
All right. Thank you. None needed Oh, seven. The can as far as ready to take on agency? Yes. Yeah. So I guess.

Unknown Speaker 18:54
Yeah, I guess I will. I was not at your October meeting, however, Canada west of BNB on your discussion. And so what we did was included your two pump amendments. One was on number nine. And I just wanted that from a personal perspective. I’ve been wanting to change the book to numbers for a while. So I appreciate you guys taking that. That helps a lot when we’re referencing back and forth so on nine instead of solely luminary. And then we added 22 dresses for stewardship. So that’s all outlined in in red. And so that’s basically all the comments I have on it so I took your comments and put them in here and and what will happen with this which you guys have recommendation of I’ll send it over to Sandy’s here and then to the other to city council, summer along with the other ones. or city principals.

Unknown Speaker 20:03
Okay. Okay. Any comments on these changes? Alison, I think we were involved in the item nine if I’m not mistaken.

Unknown Speaker 20:22
Yes. Heather, could you potentially move that up to?

Unknown Speaker 20:32
Yep. We’re good there.

Unknown Speaker 20:38
Looking at the minutes, I’m sorry, I’m scrolling back and forth here. Um, my recollection is that the printer that he was including looking at something different

Unknown Speaker 20:57
i that that is right. The recommendation, I suppose, I think was I think there was some discussion about whether or not that made for proper I don’t know, grammars.

Unknown Speaker 21:18
I think to the extent grammars are a consideration eliminating by could potentially rectify that. In my opinion, the word primarily is has a different denotations and including you want to call them

Unknown Speaker 21:38
including by those

Unknown Speaker 21:42
without by so be including the

Unknown Speaker 21:48
exact correct.

Unknown Speaker 21:49
That is correct. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 21:51
We’ll add that to that.

Unknown Speaker 21:56
You’re already on Ellen.

Unknown Speaker 21:58
I did. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 22:02
So your comments on revisions are proposed? If not,

Unknown Speaker 22:14
approval. I motion to approve the 2022 legislative guiding principles water principles as amended. In the previous discussion. Second emotion

Unknown Speaker 22:37
remove them Second. All in favor to Mr. Klain? Aye. Aye. See if

Unknown Speaker 22:46
I did I

Unknown Speaker 22:49
want to raise your hand or say I?

Unknown Speaker 22:51
He said I bet it was silent. All right. All right. There’s a little bit of time with all

Unknown Speaker 22:58
that that’s matched. Right. We’ve got I am HC application for new water rights preparation staff last warm water board recommendation City Council during an FM station. The water right on St. Rain creeks.

Unknown Speaker 23:38
Thank you, Jerry. Just briefly, kind of guess, understanding why we’re doing or proposing this application. Water court when whenever you file for new water, right. It’s required that you do an overt act of appropriation in the past that usually now going out and sticking a sign on the creek and it says hey, I’m going to file here are going to dig a ditch here. More recently, with with the increase of municipalities fighting water rights, the courts have held that staff members I can’t go out and pound the sign in the ground. Staff members don’t have authority to approve file for any water right. Actually, in the past, we did for many years, the courts available to the governing board in the case of law now, the city council has to pass an over that which in our case would be the resolution. And so we will be going to the December water or December city council meeting to apply for new water right and we will need a resolution. And so and obviously what Council one water wars recommendation on this type of resolution in an action. So that’s that’s why we’re asking water board to make that recommendation. The actual water right filing itself is certainly different than than many you’ve seen in the past. This one, this particular water right is downstream of long mud, and we will be using it to meet downstream obligations. It’s kind of ironic that actually, one of the hardest things we have to do is to be able to meet all of our downstream obligations, you would think you would be getting water to the water treatment plant, which we work very diligently at. But we also have the downstream obligations, and those downstream obligations. First and foremost is every time we change a water, right, to put it in the water treatment plant, we have to meet the historical return flows, ditch losses, those types of things that occurred from the historical era, the use of the water, usually for irrigation. And so that becomes what we call return flow obligation. We every year, have to meet a triple obligation. Secondly is things like the public service company exchange agreement, we 1000s acre feet, we need to get down to them. And in exchange, we get CBT water into our trails, which is very good. But we have that delivery obligation to them. And then we also have a number of leases and exchanges. And increasingly, we’re getting augmentation requirements. From spec gravel pits, we have a number of augmentation requirements out of sandstone rich, from some of the work that went on mining went on out there. In addition, there’s a proposal a line that will open up fairly soon on Golden park property, just east of town, and that will have some obligations. Now all of those projects bring their own water rights in. But one of the things that unique about water rights is given that their irrigation water rights, they yield in the summer, but they don’t deal in the winter. So we have delayed return flow obligations to the river that we need to meet during the wintertime very much smaller than in the summer. But it still occurs, including for the actual irrigation, what rights we go in water court and change them. And we use them and their return flows further away from the stream they are the longer the return the closer you get to the stream. Usually it’s about a year where you extinguish the obligation. So those So in short, there’s a lot a lot of downstream water that we need to get into the stream as well, including just simple leases that we do, over the years have done a number of leases, to downstream water users. So we have an obligation once we sign that lease, lease.

Unknown Speaker 28:34
And then in our latest case, it’s the bonus ditch change case which we just filed about a year and a half ago, couple years ago. We have one objector city of Aurora, which varied the vehement Lee wanted to make sure that our return full obligations continued on into the future. Typically, what we’ve done for decades, hold forever is that when you file for water rights, you not only file to change the water right and agree to meet the turtle obligations. But you file and say as soon as now that we filed on this date, any any return flows that historically hit the river that are junior to this stage. We won’t have to reason the logic behind that is everybody that’s on the river. If they’re they have a senior date when you file your junior and everybody but the difference is, in that case, NEC case you are you don’t have to meet that water. delivery obligation in the future. And when a new water rights and water comes in fights, the courts have now gone away from that and and realized the city were being too hard on them. So they’re gonna come out. I personally have a real hard time with that, because basically that takes away what the theory what we call prior appropriation, somebody in the future 50 years from now, follow water right. And, and now a junior that want to run 50 years from now, I understand the concept behind it understand why the courts are doing that. Partially because there are many times when the car comes off the main Sam, switches in January for its icing and they can’t get into storage, then all of a sudden call comes up. So what long went looked at this and said, you know, it just makes sense. Now for us to go today out on the river file for new water right? That we can use in the future. Rather than delivering water from our current water supply. We’ll be able to have a new appropriation that will allow us to meet all those delivery environments in the future, wherever they are. So just real briefly, what what our concept is. This this is the main stem lefthand Creek coming in wastewater plant Main Street right here, Martin Street right here. The primary point or primary part of the filing will be right here, just downstream of Main Street. Where if that waters in the creek, we’ll we’ll be able to either take an industry in credit or pull it out and run it through an art station, put it back in. Hopefully we can stream credit. Shouldn’t say I apologize for saying industry bypass flow credits, and we’re taking credit for the stream, the water industry at that point, but we do have Riddick this point, because we have the capacity in an existing infrastructure. There’s a pump station that pumps water from here up to the bonus ditch. And there’s a standout channel in that that we can put a gauge on it. And so we can physically pull the water out of the stream, right down the setup channel through a measuring devices put back in the string. That’s generally what the what the holders are. Usually the state is the one that’s really hard and heavy on that asking for that.

Unknown Speaker 32:55
We’re hoping to have negotiate with the state. So we don’t have to pull the water out of the stream and put it right back in. We’re hoping in negotiate because there’s a fish passage that will dry out if they make us do that. So ironically, one part of the seagull, say don’t drive the fish passage and other things drive the fish passage and measure and so on. Irrespective we have the capacity to measure that water there a second. The second part of the plan is to either at the same brain Creek pump station number one, which is there in existing, we would pull the water out there, pump it up to Union reservoir and then at a later date be able to release it out union reservoir that requires union reservoir up fault or expanded for the future enlargement of the reservoir. What other point is some of the water that might need left hand creek or or st green Creek pumped with the pump can come in here into the bonus ditch and we would put an augmentation station here on the bonus ditch and return it to the stream that way. Part of that is because earlier we just talked about some of the augmentation water. This is the Volden farms property, it’s open space on by the city. But when we purchased that property, there was an existing gravel mining operation already permitted. And that’s actually going to kick off fairly soon here. It will want to be able to run water through that when it’s all done for reclamation efforts. And then another point we have is on Pride creep at the existing augmentation station for the same sandstone ranch reclamation project. We’ll be able to measure returning back into the stream at that point. And then finally, out east of town is not built yet st green Creek pump station number two, we would again be able to pump their up to Union reservoir, store it for later release And that part of that’s part of the Union reservoir. picture is that it’s very limited times this election to be in priority, because of downstream. So you want to be able to pull water when you can, and then use it later in the winter time periods. When you need it, you know, we have will have a lot of downstream augmentation water available to us in the summer, from both the holistic change cases, as well as the same rain integrated reclamation plan project example rash, those those two irrigation rights are available in summer. But we they don’t are not available in winter, when we have to meet those, as well as it allows us to pick up so that’s, that’s really the crux behind this application. It allows us to crawl over the sand today and and have water for that downstream demand that we would like to delete. So be happy to answer any questions about it and learn where we’re going with it but not identity, no recommendation, the one thing I would ask me when the board specifically make the recommendation for application. We’ve also attached a draft application so that the emotional health would be substantially the form presented to you. Because honestly, this is a craft application, there’s a few tweaks we still need to do to get that ready for water court, finding our desires to be able to get this filed. So we have a 2021 water year probation. But so we’d like to file but at the end of December. So if we get approved today, we’ll take it to city council for a resolution in December, and still be able to hit the water cooler this year. Next year spin

Unknown Speaker 37:10
questions for Canada.

Unknown Speaker 37:11
So first of all, how often do you anticipate being able to remove water under this particular? Right?

Unknown Speaker 37:24
Or for be able to use this water? I would say possibly yearly because there’s many times in spring, the call will come up. Not every year but some many years and spring will come up and many times in January will come off because that’s when the ice up on the lower river and they can’t get water. Surely, Riverside Jackson, jumble julu Reservoir, they can’t take anyway. They can’t take that album just this last year, there was a period of time. But yeah, there will be entire years. It’s a very, very junior really Junior water.

Unknown Speaker 38:09
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So and then, under those years, when we can’t do this, then it’s just back to status quo, fulfilling those applique obligations with every every other thing that we do. Yeah. Other questions?

Unknown Speaker 38:31
Thank you very much. Um, you touched on my question Can regarding the impact of diversions at these locations? The it looks like there’s a number of different points of diversion, as you pointed out, at least two of them on the natural stream 40 CFS as a fairly robust amount. And I was just kind of wondering what the bass flew was in winter when this was intended to be operated and if it would be sweeping the river and it sounds like it that would have that potential.

Unknown Speaker 39:08
Yes. It is possible. It is possible. Generally, we’re in the 30 to 50 CFS range in the winter time period. So it is 40 It would it be possible. Yeah. The 40 is really comes about because we have 40 CFS capacity on both of the same great, great pump stations. So less than icon will use the full 40. At the end it’s only 20. It’s 20 CFS and safer and Greek conversation number one, so if we pull that one, it will fall into the two pump stations. The savory Greek pump station number two is Hold the conference with Boulder Creek. So it has considerably more water down there than it does. Martin Street on the other main stream, but yeah, there, there’s times it will be mine that’d be quite funny there. But most of the time it’s I’d say it’s probably closer to 5040 30 to 50.

Unknown Speaker 40:28
As a follow up question to that try to imagine 10 CFS in those locations, I would imagine that would just completely isover. And if so is increasing consideration or concern.

Unknown Speaker 40:42

Unknown Speaker 40:45
you know, that certainly happens further west. It really happens up around the bud rock area. So immediately below real price reservoir, but we haven’t, I haven’t seen it as big a problem down here in town. But I haven’t honestly operated the sacred Creek pump station number two in winter. So yeah, it’s not entirely impossible, we have the same problem. That’s why we would like to be able to another reason we’d want to be able to operate as a bypass flow, rather than be required to diverted This is a pipeline this flow, we can measure it, we haven’t really had a problem. The measurement station is there right now to say brain Creek, gauging station. Hello, Kim crap Boulevard, just the wet east of where Kyndra Boulevard crosses the same green Creek. And that gauging station has been able to operate pretty much year round. really haven’t had a problem with icing over of that particular course, that’s below the wastewater treatment plants. So slightly warmer water hitting that then up above, below Martin Street, but still, we’ve been elaborated vegetation, that’s where we would measure it, if we’re allowed to do it as a white bypass flow just by taking out the flow contribution of the wastewater treatment. So that’ll be part of our negotiations. If, if they’re already objectors, and like the state of Colorado

Unknown Speaker 42:46
that answer your questions, Alison,

Unknown Speaker 42:49
it does, thank you.

Unknown Speaker 42:51
Any other good, I just asked one, periodically, maybe monthly for a while here, I might need some vocabulary assistance with my new position is still sitting here because I’m gonna keep that for a while. So, augmentation station is that just a gravel pit that we put water into water out of later or what are

Unknown Speaker 43:13
we an augmentation station is is generally it’s a structure where stream flows or water deliveries can can be physically measured. So, most augmentation stations consist of many of them this is a pulling water out of the head gate of an irrigation ditch and then almost immediately even sometimes upstream of the before you go into the ditch there they just build a flume or either put a partial flume or a Rubicon gate or some some type of measuring structure, you can measure the water and then goes back to the

Unknown Speaker 43:55
string. Okay. So okay. So this is the other question. Okay. So, given that thanks for the information, Kim. Is there a motion to approve the application for new water rights?

Unknown Speaker 44:20
I would make a motion to approve the application for water rights as in substantially the form presented here in the in the application are in the in the packet board packet with the request that consideration of how to enable measurement to take place in stream as opposed to a channel motor as opposed to requiring moving out have to be taken into consideration.

Unknown Speaker 44:54
Do Yes. Anything else else?

Unknown Speaker 45:01
No, thank you. Is there a second all second? All right.

Unknown Speaker 45:07
All right, then move them Second. All in favor signify by saying aye.

Unknown Speaker 45:11
Aye. Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair for the record is absolutely in Kansas for us to ask for that. Unfortunately, are candidates in the opposers interest to oppose it? See who’s more successful? Anybody we know? Oh, no, hopefully not. But lots of people I know.

Unknown Speaker 45:33
Okay, yeah, that sounds

Unknown Speaker 45:35
like Yes. It’s Justin.

Unknown Speaker 45:38
Just counted, they have a finite answer that is something you do on an annual basis or far less than that, or is that a carrier that we File New? All right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 45:52
Well, a new one. Very, very seldom, we don’t do we do change cases, a few change cases a year. The last one was the preparation all in channel diversion in 2003 or so. Okay, so it’s once a decade or once every other decade. Get it? You get? We all get a mark. Get a mark for a new new water right finally, which is very rare.

Unknown Speaker 46:23

Unknown Speaker 46:24
I mean, the no wood fire restoration agreement is right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 46:31
Good afternoon. For those of you who haven’t met me before, my name is Preston. I’m the Senior Market Ranger of that button wrap. Responsible for field operations out there making water releases and looking after the property. Included in your board packet is a service agreement between city of Longmont and the lefthand watershed center. This agreement will allow the city to participate in recovery efforts going to Cal and fire. As you’re probably aware, the Cal fire burned over 10,000 acres, including areas of the left hand in South St. Green watersheds that drain into Longmont and provide raw water to the city’s water treatment plants. After the CAL FIRE lefthand watershed Center helped found a stakeholder coalition that’s known as the st. green forest health partnership includes management agencies, forestry authorities, and community organizations. And you’ll see in your packet a variety of different agencies are contributing to the recovery times. Of your county needed well over a million city Longmont in a service agreement is looking at contributing slightly over $134,000 which is the sign up the same amount as the same green light and Water Conservancy District. So again, this will this service agreement allow us to participate and contribute funds to these recovery efforts. Immediately following the fire all their county took responsibility for fuel operations and received funding from the NRCS is emergency or fifth protection funding program you WP. Together these efforts resulted in significant progress in protecting and recovering and libertarians but there’s there still remains work to be done. And substantial investment linear doing team progress made by the coalition expand recovery efforts to burn areas that hadn’t yet been treated. The attached contract shows your recovery record approximately the $6.4 million level with again one less contribute contribution at $134,000. So we are looking for validation from the Ford to city council to authorize material into the service agreement for fire recovery efforts in the California area.

Unknown Speaker 49:08
So Boulder County and the city along on others involved are the principal ones

Unknown Speaker 49:15
in in the coalition. Yeah. There’s a funny phrase that’s laid out in the budget table, which is included in the packet. However, other stakeholders that are involved in broader discussion includes the US Forest Service, as well as nonprofits including Cal Education Center, all different stories and stakeholders that contribute to the management protection. forest health and water quality is safer in watershed

Unknown Speaker 49:53
question to price Can I get a motion to approve restoration agreement?

Unknown Speaker 50:09
Move to approve the coward bipartisan agreement as presented today. Mr. Chair, I would second that

Unknown Speaker 50:19
motion. Moved second favor signify by saying aye. All right. Thanks. Right. Okay, moving on to items, nine, a.

Unknown Speaker 50:37
Okay, just a quick update on the windy gap for me project. And at this point, they’re they’re continuing to construct, I’ve got some pictures here we’ll see in a second. Construction so you may recall, this is a photo from last month are where we were in October 18. And just to refresh your memory, this is this is the main axis of the dam if keep because without those pictures, look at this. Outside here, this the X, the dam axis goes up here on the cross and comes all the way up here. The second is, this is just what this will be one month of photos, you can see the work on the car on the key trench for the dam. Along here, we also are just starting the road, there’ll be a road that goes to the backside of the reservoir. You can see this is the penstock. If you ever drove you know driving up to Fort Collins, you look up at the hills, whole hill, you can see that Penn stop coming down, right, so we’re down, there will be a bridge over that penstock. And that’s actually under construction right now. Because to get a road around the reservoir road and go around the west side of the reservoir to the backside. There’s a saddle dam on the back side, south side of the reservoir. It’s also under construction. And that road is under construction, in that. And then also, you can see the overburden that they’re taking off the site, you can see they’re starting to build pads here to store that overburden. And it’s kind of interesting to watch the material coming over to here, the pads, watch the key trench going in, and then watch the activity up here. This is where the quarry is, and then watch the activity right through here. This is where he coffer dam is being built to protect the main dam is to go the main dam. So the next picture, so these are just one week apart is October 25. You can see some more of the core burden. And the coffer dam going in the next picture is November 1, cloudy day. But you can see the bridge going over the fence starting to come in information, you can really start to see more of the work on the key trench, as well as now there’s four stockpiles, overburden stockpiles, as well as some of the work starting to go up there on the abutment. And in the next picture. Yes, a week ago, you can see really see the key trench there. And then the next picture is today. And you can really, really see the key trench right here. And some more over taken up there. Where the profit is. So that’s kind of where construction Yes, today was nice to get a picture of fresh tissue like that. In terms of the the work the the bridge over the penstock. It’s about a million dollars for that bridge, and it’s got the abutments formed for that now. On the quarry, they’ve actually removed all the overburden off the quarry, and they’ve done their first pioneering blast. So they did one last thought it was better and quicker on the computer. I would have had it up there but I don’t have a copy of that yet. I’m on the saddle down they removed proximately 10,000 yards of overburden for the saddle dam and that is going directly onto that road for construction of that road on the south side. actually a fairly old road because if you saw those pictures, you got high enough to the water, water ridges that are there, too. And so it’s actually taken a little bit of work to get that bill. But that’s the southern access roads about 1/3 complete. So they’re moving right along on that terms of the budget they’ve drawn.

Unknown Speaker 55:27
So all the funding went into account that has gone on, they’ve grown about 23 million to eight, expect to draw 8 million for the October payment of about 10 million over payments, so starting to spend some real money. In fact, one of the bigger one large expenditure was it just the project just paid back 2.6 million to the northern Colorado Water Conservancy District for purchase of red top ditch shares. You may remember a number of years ago, northern Colorado Water Conservancy District and windy gap project purchased a bunch of shares in the red top ditch, which actually diverts out of the Colorado River and irrigated land in what was going to be the Jasper reservoir site, which was the original reservoir cite the 1967 filing the original filing was filed for the construction of the project. Before it was decided it would be better to have the reservoir on the site. The rest of this shares are being changed, they actually will no longer irrigate, and they’ll be used for two things, one, to provide in stream flow and augmentation of the Colorado River downstream a windy gap, more importantly, down in the 15 mile section for for Colorado River. Dangerous fish recovery. And as part of the negotiations for the firming project. Your original agreement with west slope with the middle part Water Conservancy District was they got the first 3000 acre feet pumped in a given year. So years that there was no pumping didn’t come to the priority, they got zero and years want to pump they got 3000 feast or famine, even more so than the project that didn’t doesn’t work real great for them because they’re they need water. You know, every year. A lot of their augmentation programs similar to here, same brain where there’s an obligation for deletions, they need to meet that water rear. So part of the negotiation was to reduce that total amount, but make it every year. And of course, the project couldn’t guarantee that based on its water rights, even with the Fermi project, was able to do it by taking the red top niche, which is very senior and utilizing that water to meet that delivery obligation. So that’s kind of where the project is right now. A companion project is the Colorado River conductivity channel going around the reservoir 90%. Design grinds are now completed and under review by the NRCS is expected to get their review comments before Thanksgiving is that is the goal. The permit the permitting by the NRCS is still a critical path on that project. And unfortunately, it’s the economist NRCS are holding it up. So they have to do a cost benefit analysis. They’re struggling with that think they can’t figure out what the value of fishes will get there. Ben will be open for public we hope it’s open for public review in December. And so we’re certainly let everybody know that that’s public review. Because we hope to get a lot of organizations saying hey, this conductivity channel is good thing. You know it’s a real good thing. It helps the environment it helps fish passage it helps sediment transport You know, public public input will be great.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:04
I don’t know, anybody would say it’s a bad idea to do that. And then if that really comes to fruition, and there’s a lot of the process with the federal review, is that then the federal government has to respond, all the comments they received during the public review process. Hopefully there is a lot and they actually NRCS is hoping to have a Fonzie or finding a no significant impact by the end of December. If that happens, we’ll actually be able to catch this construction. They hope to start you know, late spring with some some of the construction out there is, is not the federal permitting process you never know. So that’s the status of the money. Definitely.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:55
Thank you. Questions? Right, thank you. Next item, a lot of resources engineering projects update. Jason McGinnis.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:12
Yes, Mr. Chair, thank you, I wanted to give you a update on two projects, both regarding the South St. Green pipeline, the pump station is still being manufactured. And right now it’s still on time to be delivered in February. We’re currently working with purchasing contracts to get an advertisement out and invitation for bid to get a contractor on board. So that we can start preliminary excavation and construction starting in January. So that’ll be going out to advertising in the next week or two. The other aspect of that pipeline is the rehab project. I think last time I just spoken to you, I told you that the liner was coming from Germany and was stuck in customs down in Texas, we pass through customs, we’re now on a train heading to Colorado. So it should be here any day now. So

Unknown Speaker 1:02:04
it’s very exciting. And so we’re working with the title lines to make sure that once once we have possession of that line that we can start tearing up and tearing up certain parts of the town and putting in those temporary access points and get that liner installed as soon as we can. We’ll be doing a lot of that work at night due to see dots highway seven project, we want to stay out of the way. And so we’re working with CDOT in the town of Lyons, we’ve decided to it’d be best for us to do our project at night. So that’ll be one thing that’s going on, but we’re going to take extra measures to make sure that we try not to disrupt the adjacent residents as much as we can. So that’s really all I have for those two projects.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:47
There’s any questions on those projects or in

Unknown Speaker 1:02:51
Russian predation? Anybody? Thank you. Okay, water conservation update. crashing.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:05
Yes, thank you. I believe the budget passed since the last board meeting. So the additional half water conservation commission is official toward 2022. So Ken for when that pairing process will happen. We are finishing up the year so we can ensure resource central contracts and our planning for next year. I believe when I did my last update numbers request at the asked about whether we are going to increase our resource, Central School flow outdoor water audit. We are doing that we are going to increase that next year since we did think we ran out of funding in mid August to reach more households next year. We have seen that uptick in our efficiency works commercial program that launched last year. So there hadn’t been a lot of participation. But in the past in quarter three, we started to see more businesses of going through toilet rebates and other indoor water programs. We still haven’t seen multifamily participation, which is our greatest opportunity. But they are the most likely reason and still COVID are equivalent on the energy side over a mama power communications. They also haven’t seen participation since COVID. Started MultiCare multifamily so hopefully as the Titanic continues to get better we can see participation in multifamily buildings where we can hopefully do like 30 to 50 toilets at once which could have a lot of water conservation opportunities. We are continuing right now one thing so we have our residential side we have irrigation baits we have not yet developed that on the commercial Looks like we’re doing some regional talks with or Collins, northern water and loved ones about North irrigation, sorry, non residential irrigation rebates and can do that have a regional approach that also works with landscaping companies are because you can upgrade the irrigation system. But if it’s not managed properly, you actually won’t save water. So it’s not as easy as kind of, if you upgrade a toilet, no matter if people flushes em save water no matter what less so of irrigation systems. So we’re, we’re talking regionally about combining kind of working with certification programs are looking to what that would look like, before diving into non residential irrigation rebates. We also got an opportunity. And this is connected to the AMR grants received by the US Bureau of Reclamation. Last year, we are just starting to receive a new data coming into our Neptune 360 program that we can start to look at, with no fatigue notification on continuous water usage. So we are are starting to talk with a number of staff of what that would look like for in our thinking of next year doing a demonstration project i r so that we can see how do we engage the customers, when they have continuous water usage that is most likely a leak, because that is a high opportunity for water savings that the new meters and system allows us to do much more proactively, because we after about, we can know depending on how many days but after two days or three days, we can know do continuous water usage. We wouldn’t know earlier but you’d want a couple days make sure someone decided to build a pool in the summer. So that would allow us to hopefully help catch some high water leaks and save water. And so those are the main things that we’re working on right now. Lots of opportunities for next year. We’re continuing I believe, earlier this year talking about the growing Water Smart efforts are continuing to work across city departments to identify opportunities for how do we integrate land use and water use planning, and are continuing to bring in more staff to have those conversations and look for opportunities, both on our internal kind of our parks, as well as in the development and redevelopment and developers. So looking for lots of different opportunities of how to continue that effort. The next year. Question for Francis

Unknown Speaker 1:07:58
was make a comment about one of your lakes when we’re doing our landscaping a couple of months ago. And several of those drops of water man in your basement. We couldn’t calculate how nothing substantial. Yes, the leak has been fixed.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:15
Other questions? Thanks for level.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:20

Unknown Speaker 1:08:22
Let’s move on to Item nine D caching policy review. As you got in your packet, well, she did a good job of putting this together. There’s a lot of information, I just suggest something you have. As we go through these by section by section. Give us your comments how much you want to read what have you. And I like to just stop and see if anybody’s got any questions, and then move on to the next session because there’s a lot to digest here, rather than waiting. So if you don’t mind, we’ll just take it piece by piece.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:03
Okay, so I’m going to just like to start there on page 11 of our packet. And I’m going to start with the early history where as we go through this information, I’m going to highlight kind of the major tenets, I’ll capture just the highlights in the paragraph. Some of these will have different staff members present some information will help explain what we’ve got going on. The early history really starts back in 1964 when we became a Home Rule city when it is this water board and city council set up the role on requirement policy. And so this has been in place for 60 almost 60 years now that there’s a requirement of transferring 200 feet of water and the direct water one of the storage and it talks about how you can make up a deficit.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:58
So in 1988 Is

Unknown Speaker 1:10:02
the water board and staff looked at the way that it was evaluated cash in lieu. And so there was a report done in that it was determined that the marginal incremental cost pricing method would provide us our graphical means to determine cash in lieu. And so it basically talks about that will be based on economic principles, that annex property should be responsible for the cost of the latest or mixed increments of raw water capacity that they cause to be purchased. And so we’re continuing to evaluate cash flow in that way. And then further, in 1993, the city’s raw water requirement policy was formally adopted by reference in municipal code. And then in 2004, it was codified for specific inclusion in the code. So since that time has been an actual part of the code, in 2013. The current methodology was looked at in the view of the current cost of water conservation efforts, new water supply projects identified in the city along bus or water master plan, current market value associated with the purchase of CBD, and then the current market value of not as sort of water rights. And so that’s kind of the distant past or the original, or the early history of it. Is there any questions on the early history? All?

Unknown Speaker 1:11:51
Just I guess, somewhere in here, didn’t we, at one time through this period, just based the cost on CBT? By so throughout

Unknown Speaker 1:12:10
the LED correct, okay, there was a period within our early history where we, we were putting emphasis on the selling price of CDT.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:21
We were struggling with

Unknown Speaker 1:12:22
getting the basic water rights back then, as far as the cost of what basin water rights work, and it was a limited amount of basic water rights in the Netherlands.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:35
And yeah, that’s the time where actually, we made some fairly significant CVT purchases. So the title probably even made more sense, when that’s why it makes sense. value on what your what your requirements are.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:56
So this is just something to keep in mind, like maybe for the rest of the discussion. I don’t know that needs to necessarily be answered here. But my so my question about this entire process really kind of like boils down to what, essentially like, what, and I don’t know, I was gonna quote somewhere in here, but we keep talking about it as the next kind of incremental cost, right. So that word has like a timeline associated with it, right? It’s like, Okay, what’s next? That’s done. What’s next? Right? And so I’m always curious as to like, those transitions that have perhaps happened in the past, being able to kind of inform what happens in the future. So at what point do we say, okay, that project is done? What’s next? Right? And so the, because then the next thing is what we actually have to kind of like base our, our past and move on, right? So so for example, to put a finer point on it, when do we decide that like when you get Furman project is kind of done, because bonds are issued? And so that cost is kind of like in place? And then we say, Okay, the next project is this, and then that becomes what we base the cash. Right. So I don’t know that that necessarily needs to be answered right now. But it’s just like, kind of the way in which I’m thinking through some of these issues. And I don’t know if that from a historical context, whether any of that discussion has been had already such that maybe that would inform the future as to what we’re doing.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:33
Yeah, we be really honest. We stopped using CBT at the request to city council. When it took off. You know, we went from seven or 8000 acre foot to 19,000 acre foot within a year. return calls a three fold increase in And we had comfortably made the decision in our walwater master planning efforts progresses, we will not focus on acquiring more CDP. So both of those things happen in about the same time. That’s when we said now we’ll go back and look at projects in what will we spend money on? That’s when? Yeah, I think that’s a really good answer. And I’ll punt on actually answering. Yeah, yes. Because I think it would be good to have that conversation. Absolutely. As between staff and board, we will go forward. Other than to say, I sort of we sort of look on setting this price based on really does become policy, and whether I think it’s still reasonable to use windy gap, or a project for at least partially, partially, even though it’s being paid for it was bonded, but we will pay those bonds off over time, over 30 years, I think. So it’s not like even though it’s built and bonded, you know, you still have some, some some money there. But also, it is a very reasonable, you know, really trying to find what’s a reasonable metric to use to set, you know, and that seems like a reasonable metric. All the others we’ve listed here are reasonable as well. And I would say, even if you use maybe way some CBT in there, still, it’s reasonable to do that, which is why, you know, one will get a number of different ways of saying it, and I think all of them reasonably but yes. I do agree that we should have that conversation of what is the next increment? When does it start?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:17
When does it start?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:21
Any other comments or questions on your history,

Unknown Speaker 1:17:29
then I’m just going to like to briefly touch on more of the recent history, so. So this would be from about 2013. To the zetz. And following Council direction in 2013, more specific emphasis had been placed on the unit cost of Windgap vermi project, and explained a little bit on that a significant amount in the near term future cash in lieu funds. They also go work to go towards payment on the bonds that were issued for construction, this capital facility that will soon serve the new newly proposed developments. And so kind of going along with what you were

Unknown Speaker 1:18:14
talking about Tom.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:18
We were realizing that was where this cash in lieu monies were going to go. So therefore, that was that seemed like a good benchmark to be looking at that further and earlier this year in July, council directed us and board to further evaluate the current methodology, and for establishing this V and provide some analysis on the possible impacts or ways so that’s kind of where we’re at in recent history.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:48
And it just didn’t comment now. Consoles direction to further evaluate. Was there a thought in Council’s mind that maybe what we were using needed to be tweaked or or how did that happen?

Unknown Speaker 1:19:06
So it’d be it’d be great if Marshall was here. She could elaborate on what the what we have in front of you as well as taken from the California reaction this city council and and so was left pretty broad, I think. I think they were just looking for us and board to look at how are we setting it? And and if that’s still appropriate, the one we’re still looking at it is appropriate or some changes need to be made, but I don’t know what we were given specific. I didn’t feel we had specific recommendation on what we should be doing to kind of broad support their policy.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:54
So I will say that I mean, I watched the data segment of the July board meeting, there was a motion on the or an amendment on the cable essentially queue to utilize. I remember the number of them remember the rationale but the 21,000 amount. So that’s the Union states or the union reservoir upon background. So you utilize a different metric rather than the metric that that that waterboard had said. And so there, there was enough of a kind of a, it had been second, and they were about to vote, it seemed like and then there was a lot of discussion ensued about the implications and ramifications of that choice. In that decision, including things like whether or not that would impact local agriculture, because now people are going out on Earth developed or going out of the market to purchase water from from them instead of just paying us to do that. We got burned, for example. So. So I think it was enough that there was a little bit of a some other ideas there from counsel.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:04
basically another way of saying, Is there a better way? I don’t know if that’s oversimplification. But

Unknown Speaker 1:21:10
I think they were just looking for a way to set the metric at a different value. That would, that was higher, and have a rationale for it. Right?

Unknown Speaker 1:21:22
Specifically, we have attached, the Water Board communication has developed from your quarter quarterly meetings, the water communication has a lot, a lot of data in there. And part of that data was union feedback, union argument and non rock enlargement. And so those were in the low 20,000 range. And that’s this whole council off caucus was saying, well, let’s just use those criteria. And, and then at that point, that’s a smell, we really want water board. To review this, they were a little uncomfortable taking their own decision. So that’s really why they’re asking the Water Board. They just felt using the windy gap only brought down a little lower.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:29
All right, this next section, section, Video Services Division, Becky, you are going to give us some insight on that.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:39
And Becky, Girl Director of consolidated services, and I think Heather’s pulling up some slides, we’re just gonna go over kind of generally, the financial structure of the water utility. It’s been a little while since we’ve done it. So it seems like a good opportunity to review all the funding and expenditures for the water utility. The next slide, and so there are four funds that make up the water utility. We’ll start from the right side, which is the most restrictive, so we have the raw water storage funds, which the revenue source for that was the sale of high mountain dams and the long long ago, and the permissible use of that fund was only for storage projects. So we have now fully expended that fun, and we will close that down. So this will never hear on one of these slides again. Yeah, so that went into you that was part of our payment to northern water for the construction of Chantel reservoir. So then water cash acquisition fund, the revenue source for that is cash in lieu of water rights. And the allowable expenditures are for water supply. So new water rights, water conservation, other expansion of supply. So pretty restrictive. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:59
Question. Not sorry. Finish up and I’ll ask a question. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:03
So then the water construction.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:06
I’m sorry, is there a balance, known balance of this plan cash in lieu of have been brought in and out yet excitement?

Unknown Speaker 1:24:15
Don’t recall it balance in the budget as we very much expended most of most of the balance in the water cash acquisition budget, and also for fortunately, there could be maybe no more than million but

Unknown Speaker 1:24:32
is curious. The only amount I think that recently came in this year 2021. There was a particular development the last couple of months that brought in about $940,000. I think that’s still yet to be expended all the caches, and prior to that, I think it’s pretty much been

Unknown Speaker 1:24:52
historically an in and out fund, caption and then cash goes out almost immediately Spotsylvania. No, we do test it on line. are different ways that

Unknown Speaker 1:25:01
we do tend to build up balances. So, you know, we expended probably close to $7 million in total for the when you got firming project, and we had been not making many other expenditures. Up until then I think we’ve made some smaller purchases of water rights over the last, you know, five to 10 years, but nothing large. So, and now, moving forward, potential expenditures include, you know, making part of the bond payments related to the gap or, you know, other supply projects appropriate for thinking yes. So the water construction fund is funded by system development fees. So these are fees paid at the time of building permits. And the allowable expenditures for that fund are cost to expand the system. So, primarily, you can also spend it on meeting new regulatory requirements, but for the most part is adding capacity to serve new development on an annual basis, you know, that that can range between, you know, three to $5 million. Right now, we expect that funding source to diminish over time as we approach, you know, our planning horizon where our population expanse list. And then finally, our water operating fund is our most flexible funds. So that’s primarily where where rates go into fun things as well as you know, miscellaneous revenues associated with things like, you know, button rock permits and everything else that doesn’t fit into a different bucket. And same on the cost side. So anything that is, you know, related to the operation of the water utility is an allowable expenditure in water operating funds. So that’s how the funds break down. Any further questions on the funds themselves?

Unknown Speaker 1:26:59
Just a quick question, I’m actually lose a soda ham. That there’s not impact rates directly

Unknown Speaker 1:27:12
or not directly. Yeah, that’s exactly right. So so whatever we raised in cash in lieu of like, and part of the reason that I went from right to left there, it’s like, most restrictive, the least restrictive, whatever we can pay with those restricted funds, is something we don’t have to pay out of rates. So it’s really an avoided cost more than it is a direct impact to the rate and if that makes sense. So that was slightly around about that. Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 1:27:45
just trying to I’m really trying to work my way through this. So. So the there was a statement at the city council meeting, where is that, in fact, these cannot be used to adjust rates is that they captured that correctly. So So in other words, like, our cash in lieu and, and the rate structure, are they all intertwined? So in other words, can we get if we split the cash into different piles, could somehow be used to make sure that water rates, residential water rates? Either the fees don’t go up? Or that is that that the rates don’t go up in the future? Or that we could somehow diminish them or something?

Unknown Speaker 1:28:36
So not directly, but yes, indirectly. So if we collect cash in lieu, and then use that to make, for example, the bond payments related to windy out firming project, then that’s an expense that we don’t have to pay from rates. However, we don’t, we don’t project revenue from cash in lieu because it’s all dependent on the development cycle. So when we set rates, it assumes no revenue from cash in lieu, so it only affects the rates for sort of the next time that we set them, you know, whatever a cost, we were able to offset through what we collected as development occurred.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:27
So it’s a tricky one, because I’m a member of the public, right? Yeah. I say, Well, I want developers to be charged more via cash in lieu so that my water rates don’t go up. If the answer to that is, well, those two funds are disconnected, so therefore, they’re not related. And so we’re talking about apples and oranges here. That’s an easy thing to say. That’s not what we’re saying is they’re kind of intertwined but not in a predictable way. And so therefore We don’t know whether cash in lieu in any given year would affect the rate structure, but perhaps it could, but we’re not sure. Right. So yeah, so any convoluted stories, it’s a hardest,

Unknown Speaker 1:30:11
really concise message.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:16
As a teacher,

Unknown Speaker 1:30:17
it’s an important factor. Yes to public, I’ll guarantee you know, anyway. Alright, carry on. Thank you. All right.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:25
So next up, we just want to talk about how how we set those rates and fees other than cash and next slide there, okay, so, so, rate, rate setting is a pretty straightforward process, there’s a, you know, an industry standard methodology that we use, where we essentially we determine the revenue requirements, or what’s the money that we need to operate utility, then we go through a cost of service allocation, where we take all that money that we need to operate the utility and decide which user classes to allocate those costs to. And then once we know that cost of serving each user class, then we design a rate to collect the cost of service for each class. So right, clear, it’s fine. But you know, the very, very clear method that we use there. So then we have our system development fees, sorry, for equations. So for system development fees, as well, for the windy gap, as for the wind gap surcharge, which is the next one here, we use a buying methodology, in contrast to like an incremental method, or you know, marginal methodology, which is what is used in passion live. So what we do with a buy in method is we try to look at the value of the infrastructure that the community or utility has invested in to date, and then figure out the value of that on a per connection basis. So that as new connections are added, they’re not diluting the value, like everyone is contributing what, you know, what the value of what was already in place, when they when they got there, so to speak. So what we do is we take the value of the existing infrastructure, and so for the system development fee that includes our treatment into infrastructure, or distribution, and, and then the raw water lines like so the supply infrastructure, but but not the water rights. And then we got project, and we subtract from that bond principal outstanding, because that’s going to be part of what these new customers paper in their rates as we move forward. And then we divide that by the single family equivalent units. So looking at all of the connections currently in the water system, you know, if if those were all single family residential taps, like how many would there be? So right now, for a single family residence, that works out to approximately $6,500 per connection? There’s a component that’s related to the domestic use and a component based on the square footage of a lot. So that can vary a bit. Questions?

Unknown Speaker 1:33:21
Yeah, I was only thinking whether the single family equivalent units were those that were built at the time that you value that and those are the ones that have been planted and will be built at some point in the future.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:31
It is the ones that are built at the time. So yeah, certified existing infrastructure, these

Unknown Speaker 1:33:40
Longmont that’s around 330 1000

Unknown Speaker 1:33:45
There on the commercial side that just calculate a whole different process. Well, so strictly residential,

Unknown Speaker 1:33:54
no, no. So we, we would convert and we would say, okay, a brewery uses about as much water as two houses or something like that. So, based on the average use per class, as well as the, the capacity of the meter for that connection, we have a whole

Unknown Speaker 1:34:14
Okay, so this covers all you

Unknown Speaker 1:34:18
Yeah, so we convert everybody to what would what would it be like if you were single family equivalents? Okay. So same essential calculation for the weedy gap surcharge. But what we’ve done there is we’ve taken the the value of both the parents and the berming project or long bonds contribution to parents in the farming projects, subtracted the bond principal outstanding and divided by those same single family equivalent units. So we’ve just reset this in when was that October, after we made the payment to to Northern and so we’ll revisit that periodically as that bond principal that’s hitting reduces. And that’s approximately 15 to 20 per unit. So I heard that there was a particular that was all

Unknown Speaker 1:35:11
I had on that are the questions about Becky’s information. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Let’s move on to topic Front Range water provider cash in lieu of comparison. So when he got some comments on that, yeah, so

Unknown Speaker 1:35:45
Nelson’s actually. So

Unknown Speaker 1:35:50
what I want to do is, so

Unknown Speaker 1:35:54
to keep kind of started this in late October, they handed off to me early last week. So these names of these that we’ve actually been able to get a hold of. And I don’t want to go through each entity because everybody, I just want to make general comments. So when you look at this, and you look at the different pricing, based on our conversation and our research that we’ve done, a lot of the research has been also through their website as well, a lot of websites for these entities will have information on. So a lot of your higher fees will be entities that is mainly as CDT units. So that’ll raise your your higher, make it to your higher range. Now, your lower range is usually entities that will ask for their passion movie based on like, based on water rights, or are their own water storage projects, or other entities will have it based on like, their, their base and water rights, plus regional projects, like the windy gap for me, and then this, which is the northern integrated project. So they’ll base it on that. So they kind of every entity, or we look have different criteria in different reasoning behind the cash flow, but it is not the same as long bond. And then one entity to the other entity is not the it changes each one. So as I kept going through this, I kept saying, Wow, I can’t believe how how, how it said so much different. So everybody looks at it differently. And sometimes they’ll be asking for passion move for, and we’ve talked about this, in our discussions, don’t be saying we want passion do only. And then a year or two later, though, we’ll look at it and then they’ll be asking for watering hole. So it really kind of goes back and forth per entity. So I want to get that out there. Before we start, you know, kind of an overview of it. Because you know, we did this kind of quickly. And, and a lot of this, a lot of them that I seen, they do review, someone will do it like every few years, some will do it, you know, more recent, like every year, and RV six months given kind of, you know, that’s also how they review it is differently from ours are just quarterly. So everybody does a review,

Unknown Speaker 1:38:24
tiny, different, they do their reasoning behind it different.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:28
So it’s hard to say we’re at this, we should go to this because they are because everybody has a different reasoning behind. That’s my that’s my point.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:36
I hope I’m clear.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:38
That’s my main point on this, the sheet here that we’re looking at. And, and for December, we’ll continue to reach out to other entities or fine tune the information that we have on these entities. And when I do that, I’ll correct the date on the top there. So we’ll just keep keep doing that as we’re progressing through for December as well. So is there any questions because I didn’t want to go into and pull out like a Fort Collins and go through the detail against I think that’s not necessary, because they’re all different.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:10
You know, too simple simplify. This is very much a simplification, if you look at what they’re doing is the bottom line. In these cases, everybody’s trying to look at the cost of water, basically. I mean, it’s very simply been said that, basically what we’re all trying to do, right,

Unknown Speaker 1:39:32
what Yeah, that’s a good point. Roger. So and folks are looking at just CBT the rate of basketball high. So that’s why occassional is high. If they’re not looking at other other sources. Yeah, other sources like their basic water rights or their own projects, some of them have their own bar projects that they’re involved with other their own storage. And so they focus on that because that’s kind of their priority. That’s something that they see that they can be built on. To help their squat and a lot of this a lot, the northern entities are in this for quite up. So they’re up here or in this area and that project, and northerns to help him with this spinal can know more about than I do. But definitely a lot more part of that for this. So

Unknown Speaker 1:40:24
probably one of the differences between us and many of the water writers is they have one fee, as Becky just showed you, we have a cash flow, and then we have a way to get search range. They’re different, they are not the same thing. And so I caution, not that don’t you can’t add them. But you also can’t forget those two charges. So we’re developers can come in and do a tap fee, if they want to get up surcharge fee and have a caption, or bar right. So different in the water risers, specifically, three up to three fee per acre, whereas the surcharges are the incremental cost with the gap, that still is still older, we

Unknown Speaker 1:41:22
can say it differently on the way to gap surcharge, because because we have certain ability to recover the cost of the infrastructure like this notice by infrastructure overall, but not the right itself. Correct. And that’s I think, what is different between that charge and then what they do with

Unknown Speaker 1:41:42
Chairman, one other thing I want to add is, I did talk to a couple folks. So some of them were cbtl and and then they have the ability now with no with no base of water so they have their own base or otherwise. Now they’re having the ability to get involved with this water right. So then they stopped asking for CBT only, and then they’re trying to generate cash admitted to help pay for those basic water rights were this can play out a little bit different for for logline is we have a lot of baseball rights. And the base of water rights usually wouldn’t say always, but usually has a lot less than CBT. And so that’s another reason why a lot of these other with a with the lower rates.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:28
We’ve gone

Unknown Speaker 1:42:30
here. Okay, so I’ll just touch briefly on the next section. It’s the evaluation of priority gap project, contract sales, and those are kind of the parrot logic. So since the Parent Project, that being many gaps was allocated, that was originally six cities, and Longmont was one of the six and we had one six ownership in that. So what we have here, that further down there is the table, which shows kind of what has happened in the last five years in terms of sale of those units of the Parent Project. And I think what I would notice it here, as you can see the progression of increased price unit prices I went on, they were running around 51 point 5 million per unit back in 2017. And it went to 2000. And keep going up. And then most recently in 20, white are selling a unit of about 2.7 million. And then you’ll be noted in here that TRPA they still have 10 units that they’re planning to sell by bid in the next year. They’re expected to set a minimum bid price of about 3 million per unit. As we said, that’s what’s expected. So continuing appreciation of value in those. So that’s really all I have generically on the sell of that specific things.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:14
So this just to be fair, this is units video

Unknown Speaker 1:44:19
for me, that for me, it’s as part of your parents. This is really separate from what you get, for me this is there was a finite amount of Wendy gap parent unit units. And there was 480 units total. We have a city of Walmart has 160 or 8080, excuse me 80 of those units. And then other other entities have the remaining 400 So it’s each unit represents a thing is one roughly 148 1000s of acre foot

Unknown Speaker 1:45:04
100 Each unit is 100 acre foot. What am I? So 40,000?

Unknown Speaker 1:45:17
Why is this just for the parent? This, we’re talking about yourself and the parent projects, you in order to be part of the winning at Burnley project you have to own parent budget.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:28
So when so for example, when did online meant to be and when we buy into the Parent Project, this is initially for the very beginning. Okay, so this is okay. Yeah, so my meeting 19.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:46
So if I may, and maybe this speculative, right? The Parent Project has existed and has a track record, it has a deal that is somewhat reliable. And the firming project now as a bonded project is being constructed. And is there any indication that people that are involved in now not feel that they have oversubscribed or have different full demand needs going into the future? And is there going to be a market for the farming project units as well. And so if that hasn’t started yet, I know among the list participants has been a lot of talk about that and they’re waiting on the record decision to they have some certainty. So if you guys have some certainty under when you get burned, so

Unknown Speaker 1:46:33
warm up. So we were long I was originally in the project and 16,000 acre feet. And we we got down to 10,000 acre feet. And the costs were good, equally distributed. So we got our money back to cost reallocation. Once we hit 10,000 acre feet more than said we’re done. reallocating costs, if you want to get your money back, you got to sell. So we sold at cost. Previous, we weren’t prepared 1000 8000 and 1070 500. And those two times went down. We sold those units for cost. At this point, no, there there’s yeah, there’s a great demand out there. Everybody would love perimeter, firming project water, but there isn’t anybody willing to sell any. Probably will be some ERP water as they start to go to renewable energy. But how much we don’t know.

Unknown Speaker 1:47:51
How is that fair? I just want to get all my ducks in a row. So I was the Mindy gap. Parent Project, right? Like, how’s that distinguished from CBT water? Because, I mean, it’s all it all comes to Northern, presumably or managed by Northern.

Unknown Speaker 1:48:10
So CBT is separate? Sure. CBT was that was the original Yeah. And we have certain amount of ownership of CBT when again gap in 1981 of them filed their wide right that uses their system but at the time didn’t have any storage for that and so they’re they’re kind of like a little bit like a brother and sister

Unknown Speaker 1:48:33
they come over through the same infrastructure right? So there was just more there was there was additional potential to use the infrastructure to move more water and it doesn’t come over that windy gap project water does it come or get stored and harder and more students and all those that part?

Unknown Speaker 1:48:55
No, it can it can pump into Lake Granby, but it can only be stored in like gravity and only stored in like gravity when there’s excess storage capacity. So some years like gravity doesn’t fail. So you put some water in there and then explain if you have is it by that next spring and the gravity fills its fills the windy gap water. So that’s the real crux of why the Fermi project because there is more water that you can pump from erotically the windy gap project was actually the tail end of the CBT project when the CBT was originally contemplated. They were going to pull water off the Fraser River, bring it around drop it into Granby, without was too thought but to be too expensive at the time. And so they didn’t build that last segment of the project. So that later on in the 1960s six cities went together and built a company plant on the Fraser River of delay gravity. And so that’s it, but they knew that was going to be sufficient. So they filed water storage vessel called Jasper reservoir on Westlaw. Then when it came time to build that, looked at that, of course, one of the things you have to do is look at all of your alternatives for the Federal permit. And there were 258 Reservoir sites and look down study very extensively. And Jimmy Hall one. One of the big issues was, there were there were some environmental issues on the job. One of the big issues was you wanted to get your water underneath the Continental Divide to this side of the divide in case of total Okay, case, the total capacity is being fully used by CB, D, you can get your water over because cups full. Which Which one friends of yours fault. So yeah, that’s that’s what happens. So yeah, that that’s how those two operating together

Unknown Speaker 1:51:14
comes over. And then as to me immediately distributed, you can you can store it, except for now we’re building.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:22
Yeah, well should build the roads were well struck down right now what you do is you you can take what’s considered immediate delivery. So if Longmont wants some, if we have windy gap sitting in the Trinity, we can just pull it out our four piles to a lot of work to

Unknown Speaker 1:51:42
be sitting

Unknown Speaker 1:51:43
over there, and then they’ll bring it over at a later date.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:48
Or suggestion. For 52, I don’t want to rush through this because there’s a lot of meat still left in this thing. I would suggest we stop at this point and pick it up. Next month. We’re talking about caching anyway, in our December meeting, if but i These discussions are pretty substantial. I want everybody understand what’s going on. So we come up with a certain analogical saying so if there’s no objection, I’d like to stop.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:23
That’s to carry it like Heather and Ken No. And Todd know that I had to leave it for 45 minutes. There we go. Five. That helped me tremendously, because I don’t want to miss the participation. And

Unknown Speaker 1:52:34
partner, because it’s short, so hard.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:36
Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:37
We are ready for more next month. Awesome. You do and thank everybody for

Unknown Speaker 1:52:44
last one question just in case it’s not available on it wasn’t in here. And it could be provided in December. The ability for anybody to bring in water to dedicate invasive water is somewhat limited by the amount of invasive water that’s left available, we’re not already brought in or not otherwise encumbered in similar fashion, we have a sense of how much native water is left that would potentially be dedicated to warm on under long months, current rules of what they accept and so forth. Because I think I saw it in there. And I was just curious. There was knowledge. And if that was something we can perhaps see.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:22
Yeah, yeah, we’ll be able to provide a general sense. We can definitely do that.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:27
Yeah, general sense without

Unknown Speaker 1:53:28
clear balancing what you can bring in versus which

Unknown Speaker 1:53:33
is remaining non historic water will be eligible likely to come to law.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:40
I mean, there’s think some de minimis amount of additional land that can be annexed to so there’s, you know, so there’s some metrics on there that factor into what you should expect people to be able to bring in versus throwing in a different fashion than our existing program. Okay, great. Thank

Unknown Speaker 1:53:58
you. Anything else on? Item 10 being that way. No. Lemons. Yeah. worthwhile. We’re here