Longmont City Council Regular Session October 27, 2020

For a transcript of the meeting, please read below:

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All right. Hello, everybody. I would I would now like to call the October 27 2021 months city council regular session to order it is the last city council meeting before the end of the world next Tuesday, or whatever that may be.

All right, can we please start with roll call?

Mayor Bagley, are you present?

I am present. Thank you.

Council Member Christiansen. Here. Councilmember Vega

here. Councilmember Martin

as it Councilmember Peck. Here, Councilmember Rodriguez

here. Councilmember waters, your mayor, you have a quorum.

All right, great. Marsha, do you want to lead us in the Pledge?

No, but here I go.

I pledge

allegiance to

the flag

of the United States of America.

And to the republic for which it


One nation under God,

indivisible, with

liberty and justice are all wrong.

All right. All right. Um, just a quick reminder to the public. If you want to participate in tonight’s first call public invited to be heard, you need to call in when we throw up the slide to that toll free number, enter the meeting ID and then we’ll call you pursuant to your last four digits of your phone number. All right, let me hook counsel back, please. All right, great. Let’s go ahead. Can I have an approval for the October 13 2020? regular session minutes? No, really not. Okay. I’ll second it. All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. Go sorry. I

i timeout timeout,

Councilmember doggo Ferry.

I was saying I

Oh, okay.

I thought there was debate and I just moved too fast. Was anybody in a Alright, so, um, the motion passes unanimously. All right now it’s time for a vendor agenda revision submission of documents the motions to direct the city manager to add agenda items for future agendas. I’ve got one item and that is this Friday at three o’clock. We will all so graciously agreed to attend the Northern Arapaho meeting between us Sister cities and the Northern Arapaho, Arapaho elected leadership. As of today, Governor polis stated that we can have no more than 10. So unfortunately, that means me and Mayor Pro Tem will be attending along with the four Business Council representatives. One member, Janice Robin, who’s the sister cities chair, and then Harold David Bell, and Carmen Rodriguez, which puts us at 10. If anybody else would like to participate, we will make video access available so we can, you know, put you on the screen and that kind of stuff. So,

anybody want to yell at me for that?

Councilmember Christiansen?

Nope. You’re on mute, Polly.

Okay. Yes, I would like to be in the video.

Me too.

Cool. I know, they would love to see you again. Paulie, and especially Dr. waters and everybody else who they’ve gotten to know. So you wanted a video? I know. Dr. Waters was already been excused. It’ll be out of town. Councilman, reliable, fairing? Will you

be sending a link to all of us? So if we want to join or do we have to let you know now that we would like to be in attendance?

I assume Harold will send us a link. I think the link I’ll work with him tomorrow.

But I’ll send the link my asynchronous day. So I don’t have students at that time. Because they’ll be working independently. So yeah, I’d like to be there via my Of course. Cool.

All right.

All right, Harold. That’s all I have anybody else have anything else at this section of the program? All right, moving along city manager’s report grid, interactive efficiency buildings demonstration project. Harold.

Well, now I’m some LPC David who’s doing that.

So Harold, we have Tim Ellis doing it. Tim, can you come on the line?

Hey, can everyone see me?

Yes. Excellent. Okay, we ready? To begin,

Susan, you have my slides up.

Give me one minute.

Donna not seen that one. Let me open up my

my email real quick. Sorry, folks.

Hey Tim. While she’s doing that, do you want to introduce yourself a little bit.

My name is Tim Ellis. I’m the renewable energy strategy manager for the energy strategies and solutions group at LPC. And I’m going to present tonight on a project that we’re starting up called the grid, indirect grid, interactive, efficient buildings demonstration project. It’s long name, but it’s really exciting project that we’re partnering with Habitat for Humanity on so now I’m excited to tell you all about it. And thanks for having me on tonight.

All right.

Let’s say we’re really excited to have Tim on the team. So he joins our strategies team. And Tim has been with us a little over nine months and has a great history of other projects with other organizations. So

Tim, you have the floor. Thanks.

Yeah, I think we got through this one, we’re ready for the next one.

So here’s a slide you might have seen before and up you see we use this to indicate how a project supports all the various components of our integrated electric resource system and, and how the components play into meeting our hundred percent renewable energy goal. Next slide, please. The main focus for this project is to look that’s good right there is to support and inform the beneficial electrification undertaking and also innovative and emerging technologies, and determine how they’re going to play a role in meeting our renewable energy goal. Other projects can also help support other components such as the distributed energy resource component built environment and also the AMI piece. Next slide, please. So I’m presenting this this project tonight to council to security and put him in support. And here’s the agenda. First, I’m going to define what a grid interactive efficient building or gabb is. Then I’m going to talk about our partnership with habitat and give an overview of the project. Then I’m going to cover the benefits of the project and the concept to LPC to habitat and the participating homeowners as well as the city. And finally, I’ll wrap up with the next steps. Next slide please. So grid interactive, efficient building are those that have an optimized blend of energy efficiency, energy storage and renewable energy, and load flexible technologies that help that are enabled through Smart Control. So basically, there are four components to the concept. First, we need buildings that minimize energy consumption. So that’s the efficient component. They allow for two way communication between the customer and the grid. That’s the connected piece. They also contain sensors and controls that allow the customer or LPC to monitor and manage loads, that’s the smart piece and the flexible piece. So aggregating together, these kinds of buildings can act as a very important distributed energy resource on our grid. Next slide, please. So we’re excited to partner with Habitat for Humanity on this project. They’re constructing two housing projects in Longmont. Two homes are going to be at two homes that are going to be in the project, our Marshall place and the remaining eight homes are going to be at Mountain Brook development that the Marshall place houses already built. But the mountain Brook development has not started construction yet we’re expecting or they’re expecting to complete it in early 2021. All of the homes are all electric, and habitat built the homes is all electric with the intent on saving costs and time and connecting with the gas company so they didn’t have to do that. And also by building these homes with minimal air leakage and efficient appliances, habitat believes that the homeowner will actually have lower energy costs and greater comfort. So the project also aligns with habitats environmental values by helping the city reduce peak energy loads and align with renewable energy generation. And it supports habitats a goal of sustainable and transformative development and evaluating home energy consumption and using environmentally friendly grid interactive technology solutions. Next slide please. There are several appliances that will be studied in this project. The first one on the upper left is called a mini split. It’s a heating ventilation and air conditioning unit that’s going to be used at all 10 homes installed by by habitat. It’s called the mini split and it’s really an efficient way of performing h facon homes. We’ll be monitoring energy consumption of the units to determine the ability of perhaps having them included in in future demand response or other distributed energy resource programs. And next, we’ll also provide that orange piece of devices called home energy management system. It’s a sense Home Energy Management System, or hems. It’s going to enable us help you see and the homeowner to monitor monitor energy consumption in real time. And from this information, the homeowners can make determinations on ways to save energy and LPC and habitat can use the data which will be in 15 minute increments or perhaps less to make determinations on on future installations and programs for homes. The homes that Marshall place, the two of homes that are already built are also going to have an innovative solar installation. It’s called patio, and it’s installed on the ground into the picture here. The third one will be uploading and studying the energy generation from these two installations as well. And finally, the the primary appliance for this project analysis is the home’s electric water heater control device will be connected to the water heaters and can be seen in that white circle.

That’s a control device that we’re going to be connected to. And it’s not only going to monitor the activity of the water heater, but it’s also we’re also going to be able to run grid interactive tests on the water heaters. And I’ll discuss this further in an upcoming slide. Next slide, please. We’re in second part of this one, our vendor is going to be providing us with an energy management platform that is going to uptake all upload all of the data from these various devices. It’s called grid Maestro. And our consultant is going to provide this platform and also ways that we can retrieve the consumption data from all the appliances. The main function of the platform is that it’s it’s kind of like a machine learning program. It’s like a nest thermostat where it learns behaviors of homeowners and people in the home and how they heat and cool and use hot water. And it learns as it goes. So it’s we can collect and analyze data. But the the platform also gives us a four day forecast of expected expected electric use from the hot water heaters. And then the platform and a configure is different kinds of ways to test test the hot water heater and I’m going to talk about that as well. Next slide. Next slide. So overall, the project provides data to run analytics and develop energy management strategies for all partners. LPC can use these grid interactive types of devices for load shifting, for load building for demand response for ancillary services, or to respond to unexpected great emergency events. This include includes things like peak electric induction of peak electric reduction that’s shown in the graph on the right. The project also allows OPC staff to gain experience with greeting directive devices and platforms. The data collected will help habitat assess energy efficiency measures that they installed in the home such as type building envelopes, and efficient appliances. And they can also use the data to compare the efficiency of these homes with other similar homes. And as I mentioned in the previous slide, the homeowner own a home energy management system can allow homeowners to view their own energy usage and it’s going to give them some information so they can practice energy savings behaviors. Next slide please. So the total funding required for this project is a little over $16,000. And it’s going to come from existing LTC allocated funding will provide habitat with $5,000. So that’s going to be $500 per home for each of the 10 participating homes. Our vendor for this project is named shifted energy and they are going to need $11,000 of funding to cover costs such as the controllers, those Home Energy Management Systems, the energy management platform licensing data integration to the platform and training on the platform to us, as well as some analysis and consulting fees. Next slide. So the project is going to provide benefits to the city to support and reaching a 2030 goal 100% renewable energy, generation of renewable energy and the consumption of energy and homes doesn’t always align. So by putting programs like this into place that can manage home energy consumption, and to align with renewable energy energy production, we can help meet our goals. And also peak peak energy is expensive. These programs programs like this can allow us to reduce peak electric consumption that net can result in significant cost savings for the city and our residents. And finally, the project is supporting other studies and plans currently underway in the city, such as this distributed energy resource study that’s being performed by Platte River Power Authority, and the owner cities including Walmart. Also, we have an electrification plan underway to help us determine under opportunities and costs have been offical electrification. And finally, it supports our sustainability plan which lays out the many ways that the city is working to reduce harmful emissions and, and help our citizens participate in a healthy, sustainable long term.

Next slide, please.

The next steps for the project that our habitat needs to construct those remaining eight homes. I’m giving a presentation to you now. So that’s a piece of it. So they’re gonna be finishing those homes as I mentioned in early 2021. And during next year, LPC is going to monitor the water heaters and mini splits whole home consumption as well as the solar production at these 10 homes. We’re going to run tests on hot water heaters to determine the operation and functionality for for grid services. And then we’re going to analyze the data to determine to determine the opportunities for a full scale program in demand response or other the project or program. We’re also going to be exploring partnership with a National Renewable Energy Laboratory down and golden to use the data from this study to develop further programs and projects on water heaters or other grid interactive efficient building projects or programs. And then we’re going to be reporting back to City Council on this project by mid next year as well. So

that’s it thank you take any questions.

Telstra Christiansen

Thank you, Tim.

Just for everybody else’s information, Tim presented this to the sustainability board this week. So I’ve seen it again before, but it’s it’s still wonderful. Um, and this is a really really terrific way to do this. First of all partnering with Habitat for Humanity and and getting a small basis of to experimental residential things so we can study residential and have a proof of concept. I also wanted to say that LPC is also exploring other potential solar projects for city on buildings. They’re just doing an incredible job. I I love LPC. Anyway, I wanted to ask you about Marshall place because I know that that was approved about three years ago, it hasn’t had been built yet.

Yes, the two homes, the habitat homes at Marshall are fully constructed, I believe either people are in them now or very soon. So yes, those are done.

Okay, so so you can already start working on monitoring those. And

right now we’re just wrapping up our agreements with our vendor and habitat. So that’s all in place, and it’s pretty much ready to go. We can’t really start up the full demonstration project till we have all of the houses built, because we need to analyze the data all at the same time to have it really makes sense. So so we’re gonna have to wait until those other homes are built. But certainly the the devices will be in place already.

Thanks again, for all you’re doing. It’s so terrific use of our resources, I think, to move us forward for better sustainability and getting the grid getting people to understand the grid and how useful this is to moving us forward to lessening how much energy we’re used. Thank you.

Jasper Peck, I see four fingers.

Thank you, Amir. badly, Tim, this is excellent. I’m very excited that the city is taking such a proactive role in getting us to our to our vision. But I was interested in and I think, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you called it a plateau. instead. It looked like solar panels on a patio.

That’s right. It can be put anywhere on the ground. It this. That was just a picture from their website. But I believe and it hasn’t been I don’t know if it’s been installed yet. It was close when I last spoke with Habitat the last week or two ago. But yeah, I think they’re putting it along a pathway or somewhere on the ground outside of the homes.

So I’m gonna be pretty slick in the winter when it rains

all over the place.

I asked them if they were shovel ready. They said it was bluffing.

Exactly. I am very interested and in how that works. It’s a great idea. So thanks for being such. So just thank you.

Thank you.

All right. I’ll be out. counsel. Want to thank you. Well done. appreciate it very much. All right. Yeah.

Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you too, for your presentation. Thanks. All

right, Aaron. Let’s move on to the COVID-19 update.

Yeah, and I have Rachel Apart from Boulder County Health, she’s going to join us, Susan, if you’ll go ahead and get her slides, and we’ll let Rachel Take it away, and then I’ll jump in with her.

All right. Thanks, Harold. Can everyone hear me? All right, good evening. And thanks, Harold and Council for having me back again to discuss everyone’s favorite subject COVID-19. And tonight, I’m giving the October 27.

Go to the next slide.

First, I’m just going to go through the dial metrics, which we’re using to determine which level of stay at home we’re in is the county. Next slide, please. I’m sharing. Unfortunately, some some news that I was foreshadowing at the last council meeting. Rates are continuing to increase across the entire Metro region. And just actually from yesterday to today are our case rate increased into the safer at home level three range. So we’re just over at 187.4 cases per 100,000 for two week cumulative incidents and we are monitoring that closely. Next slide please. Our positivity rate has increased about point seven over the last week from around 3% three and a half percent up to just over four so that that positivity rate is still good putting us in the green. And then next slide please.


just wanted to share some good news that our our hospitalizations in Boulder County have been steady over the last 11 days, although we are seeing increases in hospitalizations across the entire region. So we would expect to see our numbers increasing soon in Boulder County. Next slide. I did want to share just an update because we are still working in partnership with the University of Colorado and city of Boulder to monitor that 18 to 22 year old group. And we have seen consistent testing the numbers of the 18 to 22 year olds have ticked up a tiny bit since last week, but are still right around that threshold for our baseline. And the positivity rate is pretty consistent with the rest of the county. And so the decision was made this week and Harold can can attest that because the entire region and every age group within Boulder County is seeing slight increases in our case rate, we decided that we will keep the 18 to 22 year old group at baseline with the rest of the county as we start to evaluate our policies and work on mitigation plans moving forward. Next slide please. So did want to share some specific data around our incidence rates. Next slide please. This slide shows the light blue represents cases that are associated with the University of Colorado while the dark blue represents community members that have contracted COVID. And so as you can see, the numbers continue to make remain very low for new cases among University of Colorado students in the last four days. In fact, there have been no confirmed cases in our database, we have started to see an increase in cases at long term care facilities. And we actually have 15 cases associated with those in the last two weeks. So that’s that is a change in in, in where we’re starting to see some disease. Next slide, please. And I wanted to share this slide. I shared it at our last meeting but wanted to share it this week. Because the case the five day average number of new cases at 59.8 is higher than any point in in the response since March or last February except during our cu surge. So just wanted to share that our case, numbers are going up consistent with the rest of the region.

Next slide please.

I’m just going to go over a couple of slides by municipality and race and ethnicity because we’ve seen some shifts some further shifts in the last two weeks. Next slide. So this graph shows the weekly number of COVID cases by municipality and as you can see, in the last week, a much larger portion of the news cases have been in long months and the last seven days 32% of the cases have been in the city of Boulder and 43% in Longmont.

Next slide.

And this is a really, really busy graph, but I’m just sharing it because Jeff does share this graph to show that the case rates or the sorry, the two week incidence rate is increasing among every single age group, as you can see, and we actually omitted the 18 to 22 year olds from this graph, because there is such a huge spike that we wouldn’t have been able to see the nuances among all of these age groups. What’s interesting to note is even though we’ve omitted 18 to 22 year olds that there are several other age groups with higher case rates that exceed that protect our neighbor threshold. So that would be the 25 to 34 year olds, as well as the 35 to 44 year olds.

Next slide, please.

So we do have really good reporting on race and ethnicity, over 83% of cases have a known race and ethnicity and I apologize that I wasn’t able to get this specific slide for Longmont, but I did, I was able to take some notes off of the data points. And of the 347 cases within the last week 62% or sorry, 62 of those cases are among Latin x Longmont residents. So that’s almost 18% of the county’s total cases, among among Latin x residents in long have long lat. And that is a disproportionate burden of cases on that community.

And next slide, please.

This graph really just shows the shift in cases from during the cu surge of white, non Hispanic to now a larger portion of our cases, from the Latin x Hispanic community for the county as a whole 46 over 46% of our cases within the last week, or seven days have been among Hispanic and Latin x.

Next slide.

And then I just wanted to share our overall testing numbers. So final slide here, next. So we have performed a lot of tests in Boulder County, and thanks to cdphp for allowing us to maintain that free testing site, which is currently located at the stasio ball fields and Boulder. And that has allowed us to keep our testing numbers up. However, even with the high number of tests that we’re conducting, that positivity rate has increased quite a bit over the last month and a half, up to four and 4.4%.

And then I’ll just share

some notes, some key takeaways that Jeff wanted me to share with everyone. So again, we are seeing increasing cases statewide, in most and almost all age groups, the increases and cases in Boulder County are among all age groups, as you saw in the the graph that I showed hospitalizations are increasing statewide. And so far, our mitigation plan with the University of Colorado has worked, especially with large gatherings, we’re not seeing as many of those and the enforcement is working well. And we are concerned about fall and winter with more indoor gatherings and holiday gatherings, especially with Halloween coming up as well as the mix of flu and covid season and Harold was so great last last council meeting that I attended to encourage everyone to get a flu shot if they have not already. I’m just also concerns over COVID-19 fatigue and a need to stay diligent. And then again, you know, just individual behaviors are really driving a lot of the increases that we’re seeing. So small gatherings among friends and family members are where we’re starting to see a lot of the spread of disease. So just the need to social distance, reduce gatherings, wear masks and wash your hands. And I’m happy to take any questions if anyone has any and Harold, I didn’t No, if you wanted to talk at all about the the change in the gathering limits, and if not, I can I can share that a little bit later after questions.

Okay, so I’d like you to change to help with that, because I still get the nuances. I did if I can share one thing, before we get to the questions, I would appreciate that I want to share my screen with you. So this is the overall snapshot that Rachel was showing you in terms of the COVID. Dial. And in what’s changed is a couple of things. So Logan and Adams actually, Rachel enough, I’m not correct on this, but I think they were moved from level two to level three based on their numbers.

And Harold, I just received a press release today that Denver and Arapahoe counties also move to safer at home level three today.

And I can see Yeah, you can see Denver barely, but they’re not there yet. They’re not updated. So what you’re seeing is they are moving backwards in this data. But the thing that also caught my attention is if you click on this, you can see the number of counties with the caution sign. It says currently in mitigation, so when when if you remember is talking about when you go into these, when your cases increase and you see it, you have to put a mitigation plan in and then you have time, you can see a number of places that are now doing that, or they’re enforcing some stricter orders based on where they said, and if you get a chance, it’s really good for council to go on to this COVID dial site, you can put it in Google and just cdphp COVID dial and you can see what’s happening in the different communities.

Part of that

conversation is I have also. So Rachel and I’ve talked about this, the legal teams worked with a talk about the gene and then Jeff and I’ve talked about it to where we all are going to be getting together on Thursday to really, really talk about what we’re seeing in the community, and how do we work collectively with Boulder County Health in terms of a very targeted outreach in into communities in terms of trying to mitigate the growth in cases that we’re seeing. So we don’t see ourselves slide, like some of the other counties have slid into some of these other tiers. And so we’re gonna be doing a lot of work in partnership. I’m Jeff and Rachel, in the team from Boulder County Health.

Thanks for that, Harold, I was just gonna outline the new requirements for gatherings under 10. While Before we take questions, if that’s okay with folks. So the state as a reaction to these increased cases in the metro region has actually changed the gatherings of 10 for all groups within safer at home. So level one, two, and three safer at home. All are limited to gatherings of 10 or less. But those gatherings now, regardless of their indoors or outdoors, can only be among two households, according to the new state guidelines. Because as I said earlier, and as Jeff shared on these on this key takeaway slide, we really are seeing a lot of spread among close friend groups and small family gatherings, because people feel safe and comfortable with folks that they know. And they’re not masking and social distancing as much. So I just wanted to let folks know that that that does apply to us and safer at home level two.

Let’s go with Councilmember Morton. And then Councilmember Christiansen

so does this level of of maximum level of 10 in a gathering include in a house or in a backyard barbecue? Or does it also apply to ad hoc gatherings on public streets?

Yes, it would apply to all private and public gatherings, although dining at a restaurant is excluded. So our attorneys are asking a couple of questions about that.

Yeah, I think there’s some there’s a provision in the order that says unless there is another provision that allows it. And so for religious institutions, restaurants, other locations, there’s a different guidance piece on that Eugene can jump in if he’s looked into it more in depth than then I have. So Eugene, can you help answer that question?

Yeah, What do you have the concept, right? If there’s other industry specific guidance for certain sizes, then that would prevail over the 10. The 10 is just personal gatherings, either indoor, personal and private gatherings indoors or outdoors. But industry specific guidance


could allow larger groups.

And as a follow up, is there going to be a change in enforcement? Because before it was really that there isn’t any?

I’m gonna let Harold answer that,

on which piece

for the maximum of 10 for a public gathering.

So we’re still working on that. So I know, we’ve had some calls recently from one, we have sent folks out to those locations and work with them. I know there’s going to be another conversation on that piece in terms of the how, right now, based on what I have, all the jurisdictions are still approaching the educational component on this. It was only in terms of what I saw from other jurisdictions, it was only the 18 to 22, or there was a different approach on that one based on those orders. And that was in Boulder. So I know Rob is working with the other public safety groups in terms of conversations on that, as we speak.

Councilmember Christiansen and dark waters.

I’m Rachel, I’m wondering if

there is any breakdown on

data between the genders, because women also are disproportionately involved in the in caretaking and service industries. And I would expect to see a higher rate of infection. I’m just curious whether anybody thought to break it down by gender.

You know, we don’t have any of our data slides broken down by gender. And I can’t believe that I never thought that that was strange before, but I will definitely look into it and make sure that I communicate that with Harold if we have have it easily accessible. And if not, I could put in a data request. However, we are in a bit of a surge. So cdphp actually has been giving us some of the cases back that we sent to them for help. So our epidemiologists are quite busy right now. But I will ask because that is a very interesting question and could help us in our mitigation plans as Harold reference. Thank you for bringing that up.

quaters Rachel, two questions for you. And Harold, I have one question for you. Um, among the metrics that you share each week, and then we’ve looked at on the dial are some of those more animating or activating for for county health, or any public health department than others? And the reason I ask is that I’ve been challenged by at least one resident who makes the case via email that what we have is a case demick not a pandemic, right? You have all these cases, but look, you don’t see the hospitalization you don’t see death rates, etc. that reflect a problem of sufficient magnitude for us to be mobilizing. So from a county health perspective, which of those metrics are most activating or animating for you?

start there. Yeah.

I mean, I would say that all of them are important to us, because those of those three dielectrics because those are the criteria that the state is using. And I will say that we have been closely scrutinizing the hot how the hospitalization is calculated, so only the hospital rates for cases are only calculated using a couple of hospitals within Boulder County. And as you may have heard in any of the governor’s updates that are hospitalizations are actually the highest that they’ve been since May. And so if you look at that, that map that I put up and only one county was in red. It’s strange that only one county would be in red when hospitalizations are going up across the board. So our total number of hospitalizations in Boulder County is in the 40s. And that’s higher by at least 10 or 15, since the last time that I spoke with you all so it’s a matter of how the state is pulling that data as well as well. The folks there residing of how it’s calculated. And so hospitalizations are really important factor but the case the case rates are important because they’re kind of a pre indicator to hospitalizations.

And so no vi can add to her explanation. I think we’re at 47. I got those numbers from Dan, earlier today. So we’re 47 total hospitalizations in Boulder County 11 in Longmont. And those are COVID cases.

So when we see hospitalization, I don’t think of as a rate, maybe it isn’t, maybe there’s a calculus of the rate, but we see numbers right numbers of hospitalizations, when that number seems to be growing disproportionately large or faster than the say the percentage of infection right from 2.42 4.4. Is that an indication of maybe this goes to some of Councilmember Christensen’s question the demographics. You mentioned more Latin x community members in the infection rate, is that a reflection of the demographics of who’s being affected because there’s a faster rate of increase of hospitalizations relative to case increases and infection rates?

Yeah, if we actually look back to one of the slides that I presented on, you can see that even though Latin x represent it, this is county data 13.8% of the total county population, and they represent a sorry, I’m just trying to read this. It’s small on my screen. They represent 43% of folks that have ever been hospitalized for COVID. So it’s actually much higher proportionality, even to those that have been affected and infected with the disease. Yeah,

just just, if you look at the you comment on the size of the font in the numbers on your screen,

that’s the way they looked at us each week to pretty

small, intimidating, but just small in terms of size of the font.

Harold, the one question for you, is, you know, we had the presentation on the testing of wastewater, we were going to collaborate with other municipalities as my recollection, we were submitted a proposal, what’s the status of that? Because that’s the early indicator, right, of what we might see coming over the next two weeks. For those communities that are actively testing wastewater, and universities testing wastewater, where are we with that?

So they’re, they’re running this test right now, I think the key piece is based on the amount of data they’ve collected in terms of them taking that and looking at the cases and how they’re moving in. We are just now I think, at the point and looking at some of those charts where there’s actually data that we can use to start trying to figure out a correlation on this. Dale and I actually had this conversation earlier today about, he’s reached out to Roberta and john Gage, to start looking at how we can do regression analysis on those two data points so that you can start seeing the correlation. But we were just now actually collecting enough data to really start doing that.

Well, that would if we have those data in you, and you’re able to do that analysis, given what we’re seeing in terms of increasing other rates, that that would be the that would be the the animating metric. I would think for us. In terms of the urgency, we would need to be taking to whatever outreach we’re going to do education we’re going to do with the community. I’ll mute myself. I don’t think I miss anything. We lost?

I think you hit the topic. I think the fact is, we’re just now getting sufficient data

to be able to analyze it.

But in looking at it, there does appear to be some trends that are showing. And so Councilmember waters, I do believe at some point, it will prove to be a leading indicator that we’re going to be able to report. Yeah.

Oh, good, Rachel.

Thank counsel number waters, because I think that’ll be important data to include in the mitigation planning that we’ll be working on. So thanks for bringing that up. I’m gonna make a note of it.

All right, Councilmember Lago fairing.

I have actually a few questions. And one of them I guess we’ll go back to the unit. What Councilmember Christiansen and waters have brought up about the looking at the disproportionality among your Latin x community or maybe looking at women and you know that that change or that, you know, is it disproportionate, let’s delve deeper in the data. But also to do you have any kind of breakdown on professions of individuals who are

there who test positive,

or end up hospitalized, because I’m kind of thinking you have access to days off, to be able to take care of themselves access to health care. So looking at, you know, it kind of depends on profession too. And, and that, except, you know, just their exposure rate, so maybe the meat meat, packing plant and different places like that, or places where they don’t have offer benefits health insurance. So they’re not able to, to go in immediately.

Yeah, I think that, you know, our epidemiologist do ask about place of employment as part of their case investigation so that we can determine if it was a workplace exposure. And there have been several business outbreaks that are all posted on CDP G’s website. So that would be if there are two or more employees of a business that are COVID positive. And this, the business does have to do mitigation there. And I would just say that I agree with you that there are a lot of disparities that exists before the pandemic and now lead to some of the outcomes that we’re seeing. We have hired a bilingual bicultural resource coordinator, and the new database that has been launched in the last couple of weeks, Dr. justyna, does allow for a better categorization of resource needs, so that we can start to share those with community organizations, cultural brokers, to make sure that those issues are addressed, as well as we can.


And then in the past, I had seen in one of the presentations, there was a slide that had, when you looked at the positive rates, the number of ones that were community spread, and another one that was individual, person to person, and I haven’t seen any slides or any kind of, even when I look on the website,

I can try to find that one from you. We do have widespread community spreads. So I’m, I’m not sure if we’re actually categorizing it that way anymore, versus the close contact, but I’ll follow up on that one and get make sure that if we do have it, I will get it to you.

Yeah. And then the other one is going back to the gathering guidelines, the gathering of 10 or less. And you said it was if I heard you correctly, it was two households. No more than two households. Is that correct? So they’re in looking at you know, there were special provisions for restaurants and certain businesses. But what about daycares? schools or even those outside rallies? What would that do for those types of gathering? I mean, they’re all close together. Some are not a lot are not wearing masks.

Yeah, there are specific guidelines for for outdoor gatherings. And currently, we’re in safer at home, we’re still safer at home level two. And if those are permitted, registered events, outdoor events, you can have up to 175 people attend those. It’s an appendix I have the public health, the state public health order, um, like a football game, for example, like watching sports. So I guess I would defer to Eugene because I’m not an attorney, but that’s my understanding or Harold.

Yes, sir.

Sorry. Okay. So we can’t have Thanksgiving but we can go to a protest or football game. That’s what I’m hearing.

Because those events you have to be socially distance and there has to be mass wearing and you can have Thanksgiving with one other household. And even if I were to want to have two friends over that are from different households, that is currently not permitted. And, but I could also go out to eat with them. Friends. So that is that

I think we know what he know what he’s saying.

Those are the very I mean, the, again, I can’t what I talked about with my team today is we were getting this. There are a lot of questions coming back because there’s just don’t understand and Councilmember Hidalgo fairing to your question. Those were things we were asking today, because of this reference to unless there’s industry specific or other guidance in these orders. And so it gets pretty specific to what we’re talking about, where you have to go searching for that.

understand the frustration,

and why there’s so much with all the confusion and how it’s okay in this respect, but not okay, in this respect. And, you know, so we’re getting all these questions. There’s a lot of confusion and a lot of disbelief. Like there’s it I think it builds a lot of distrust. So I guess I would like to know, who are the powers that be that we could really as a council go forward and say, you know, why? Where were, you know, give us the answer. So I know it’s not on on you both. You didn’t set the policy. You didn’t set these criteria? Who can we go to

the gutter? governor, Governor polis and and kind of Mayor Hancock, those two seem to be driving my wrong.

My six foot ruler, I can go over there

in cdphp. I mean, because they’re the ones that set the dial. And so when the governor issues in, you’ll see this when that when they say here’s what we’re going to do, it actually comes out in a health order via cdphp. And so in some of the cases, the questions that you all have brought up, so you know how it works. We poured those into, in our case, Eugene and Liz, they then are in an attorney call with Trina and Kate and other attorneys, they then take those questions, and then they push them into cdphp. And then we start trying to get the answers to it.

Okay. Thanks.

Right, Councilmember Martin?


yes, this is just I think just a note for Rachel, because you kind of skipped over something. You said the event has to be permitted and mask wearing is required. And I think a council member Adolfo fairing and I were both referring to events that are not permitted and wear masks are not worn. So what’s the deal with those?

I will defer to Harold, because that sounds like it could be an up potential enforcement issue.

So I don’t know what category those fall into. Because specifically, you’re talking about the activities that are probably on Main Street? And I don’t know. And that’ll be something I’ll have to push into Eugene to figure out does that fall into a different category? And if it does, what is the specific guidance on those categories? And what does that mean? Because I don’t know if there’s another offshoot in that world. So what we can tell you is what let me work that with Eugene and then Liz, and to make sure we’re in the right category, because that’s a challenge for us right now. is it’s not, how do I say this? There’s so many different specific requirements for different types of activities. So the example in this 10 person rule is, as Rachel pointed out, athletic kind of events are specific guides for that even for youth athletics. And so while you would think well, 10, but you can do this. Those are the issues everyone’s still struggling with right now.

Well, we’ll do the best we can Casper back

as me, thank you very badly. So I have some of the same questions. But I do have what I would like to staff to consider when you mentioned that the 18 year olds are going to be Boulder County is going to have enforcement over 18 year olds 18 to 22 year olds gathering and we haven’t we haven’t addressed that yet. Did I understand that correctly?

Oh, there was very specific orders for 18 to 22 year olds in the city of Boulder based on the outbreaks that they were seeing and what the and what that look like so if you looked at some of the health orders and orders that the The city of Boulder issued in conjunction with Boulder County Health, there are even a number of specific locations that were put in those orders. And then the gathering piece was very specific to 18 to 22 year olds within Boulder. And and so there were specific orders

surrounding that population in bold.

So my

concern is that, or my suggestion is that I personally think that if we’re going to have an enforcement like that, in one city, it should be county wide. to assume that 18 to 20 year olds are not going to want to gather in mass groups, they’re going to find a place, it is just easier if we adopt the same enforcement rules. That’s just my suggestion. But going back to the gathering, and this goes to enforcement. Also, just a couple of weeks ago, at sandstone ranch there, that baseball game, there were a lot more than 175 people sitting on those bleachers, without masks together. So once again, I feel that we need a county enforcement accounts so that we all agree, we all know what what everybody is doing. It doesn’t make any sense to me that in Lewisville, you can go and have 300 people. But over here, we can only have 175. Or it just makes sense that we all agree in Boulder County on what our enforcement regulations are, and that we abide by those.

So that’s my two cents worth

the sumo hand.

All right. Thank you. Holy crap. Got the run up. All right, Rachel, thank you very much for your time tonight. Harold, anything else?

I just wanted to turn it over to Jim. We just sold some bonds. And we normally update you on our bond so and city manager comments, Jim.

Thank you, Harold. Mayor Bagley members of council, I’m Jim golden Chief Financial Officer. So we did hold the sale of the open space refunding and improvement bonds this morning, we only got two bids, which is unusual, we typically will receive anywhere from maybe six to 10 bids in one of our bond sales, but it’s very heavy week for for Bond Act municipal bond activity. A lot of entities want to go to the market before the election. And so we only received two bids. But we did receive a low bid of 1.88% true interest cost which was in excess of what were where we were mapping out our estimates. So that’s much to our advantage. It’s from Huntington securities. There is we basically are selling 17 point 8 million of bonds with a $2.8 million dollar premium. It’s generating four and a half million dollars of new dollars for open space projects. And then it’s refunding the 2010 bond issues that were outstanding. The total debt service for open space bonds now is being reduced at about $380,000 per year from what it was before the sale over the course of the remaining outstanding years to 2033. That is a total savings of just below $5 million. But we are also adding an extra year to the new issue 2034 which is the final year the tax. And so that’s additional 2.3 or so million dollars to DEP and we are adding our reserved monies that we had for the prior bond issues towards this as well. So overall the net present value savings added this bond issue for the city is $2.28 million. So it’ll be closing in mid November. So I had unless you had any questions about that.

No Thanks Jim. Appreciate it. All right, Harold Anything else?

Nope, that’s it.

All right. Let’s go on to we’re gonna take a quick three minute break while we get ready and load up first call public invited to be heard.

Alright folks, we just lit in a bunch of collars, we are still on break,

we will

call you by the last three digits of your phone number. When we’re ready to begin, we’ll go down the list. And when we call out your number, be prepared to unmute yourself.

Please make sure that you’ve muted the live stream.

Or will

it’ll be a little confusing because there is a delay. Thanks so

much. Hang on. We’ll get started here shortly.

Lu You’re back.

Give us just a few minutes or a few more seconds while the screen disappears from our live stream. And we’re still admitting some folks. So for the callers that just entered the meeting, you are muted, you will be asked to unmute one at a time we will call on you by the last three digits of your phone number. Please make sure that you have muted the live stream because there is a delay and you will not hear us call on you. And if you do not unmute when we call on you. We will try a couple times and move on to the next caller. We will come back to you again.

All right, Mayor, I believe we’re ready to begin.

All right, how many people are in the queue for first call public invited to be heard.

13 to my count. All right.

Let’s go ahead and leave it open until after the first caller is finished with their three minutes and then we’ll close it up. Sounds good.

Sounds awesome. Our first caller Mayer, their last number last three digits of their phone number is 236236. I’m going to ask you to unmute

Are you there? Can you hear us? I think

that issue we hear you. Can you please state your name. I would


Sally Sprague

Thank you. You have three minutes It’s

alright, I’m calling in favor of the Von farm

cohousing community proposal. Now I’ve been interested in cohousing for many years since living in Co Op houses during graduate school. When I returned to Colorado This time, I looked at several cohousing opportunities along the front range and was disappointed in what was available then bone farm came along when I was getting ready to retire and relocate to Longmont. Unlike the other communities with which I was familiar bone farm had amenities and plans that matched my abilities and interests. The CFA opportunities for contributing to the building and living unit layouts and the structures of the farm portion with the CSA. I have been in three c essays and I’m really excited to have one so close at hand. The inclusion of an elevator for upper level units takes care of my lousy knee, which prevented me from buying into one cohousing setting. The city single person whose last family members left Colorado A few years ago, finding another community nearby is very important to me. I am committed to staying in Colorado but want more connection with people who share interests in productive land use like the farm green building all the structural elements of the project and knowing and caring for neighbors. So housing and one farm in particular is a great option for me. And I hope that the current folks is the bone farm neighborhood understand that being part of the hood is important for me. Thank you.

Thank you. Moving on to the next caller. Caller 347. I’m going to ask you to unmute


  1. I’m going to ask you to unmute. Am I unmuted? Yes, we hear you please state your name and address for the record and you have three minutes.

This is Mary Lynn, I live on Atwood Street. in Longmont and I’m calling to weigh in about the smart metering issues which are before the city the city is at this time looking at some very exciting opportunities to conserve energy. interesting projects like that presented by Tim Ellen, Tim Ellis. In this meeting. However, I’m urging the city to not rush towards the use of radio waves smart meters, they are not necessary for the city to have on every house or even most houses. Statistically speaking, in a city the size of Longmont only needs something of the order of 405 or so smart meters that could be voluntarily chosen by houses in order to be able to if they were distributed through the city randomly. That’s all that’s needed in order to be able to determine usage and make most of the decisions that the city is looking to make in terms of regulating and deciding how much energy should be available any one time. And smart meters are unsafe in terms of data privacy. They are unsafe in terms of emf, radio wave frequency radiation, and they’re unsafe and that they’re not grounded. And they catch fire easily due to power surges. So please look at alternative and innovative ways to to regulate the energy usage in the city and utility usage without mandating the smart meters of emf emitting radiation emitting smart meters on every home. Thank you.

All right, our next caller, your phone number ends in 499499.


hello. Can you hear me? We sure can.

You okay,

you may begin. This is Joe Kelly of barberry Drive. This is part two of my public comments from last week’s meeting, where I shared my canary in the coal mine story of becoming electro sensitive and having injury confirmed by a brain mapping therapist I was seeing. I hope you will see the connection between what I shared last week about my own story of microwave injury. With what I share from this article. Last Tuesday, I was flabbergasted to see an online article titled suspected culprit emerges in mystery Havana syndrome. Reports suggest Russia is behind alleged attacks on US diplomats around the world. As you may recall from 60 minutes in the news this mystery Havana syndrom describes multiple us diplomatic and other agents who are Apparently targeted with something that here to four has received much speculation as to how multiple personnel in many locations in the world received dramatically similar neurological injuries. So much so that us personnel were evacuated and offices closed in certain countries. The article dated October 20 2020, the steals information taken from investigative journalism scene in GQ and the New York Times I paraphrase from the article. Remember Havana syndrome, the term often used to describe the weird inexplicable ailments that began affecting us diplomats in Cuba. In recent years, two investigative pieces by the New York Times and GQ seek to shed more light on what’s happening, both making clear that these incidents have been happening around the world. GQ suggests that consensus settling on some kind of directed energy weapon possibly using microwaves. Russia has a history with such weapons both stories note, Forbes spins off the time story by explaining a miniscule but rapid rise in tissue temperature resulting from the absorption of pulsed microwave energy creates a thermo elastic expansion of brain matter. An expert tells Forbes which likens the result to an acoustic shock wave in the brain. There’s more of the story, but suffice to say the description of microwaves causing an acoustic shock wave in the brain, indeed, did capture my attention considering that I described a part of my own injury as 10,000 minutes or jackhammers going off in my ears. So I leave you tonight with these thoughts to ponder about wireless smart meters. Wireless bio microwaves is not sustainable for living beings. You heard Dr. Scott Cunningham quotes several scientific studies on adverse effects of electromagnetic radiation last week. There’s a lot of other hard science out there. If you look or if you ask the cast shadows of doubt over the science being settled on smart meters potential adverse health effects. The real science knows this. And the health effects presenter from last week bill Hyde, although well intended was not an expert in this field. Longmont deserves to hear from one who is. Thank you very much for your time.

All right, next caller.

All right, our next caller, your phone number ends in five to five. I’m going to ask you to unmute


Color 525 There you are. Hi. Hello.

Hi, this

is go ahead. Please state your name and your address for the record. You have three minutes.

Yeah, this was a rally Richie. I’m a practicing realtor in Longmont, Colorado at 512 Fourth Avenue. I’m calling for a number reasons today. First of all, I am a member of Bonn farm, and I wanted to call in support of that. I think it’s a very progressive great idea for a long month in a super use of that particular property. In cohousing communities typically do hold their value very well, it is a high quality housing meant to be very green supports multi generational living. So people get a great education from one another and care from each other for each other in a way that they don’t in normal housing. And I just think in general, this is a super bonus for a long month. So I really wanted to support that. This along with many other things that Longmont has done are very progressive, such as when our forefathers provided plenty of water for us in the community. For instance, having next light we’re having, we have landlord training member trainings once a month. And we have great mediation services. So there’s much that long run is doing very well and this is definitely one of them. I did though want to talk about some of the recent things that have come up, such as Airbnb, Airbnb s were approved about, I don’t know 1920 months ago, people have invested their money into these homes. And now the carpet is being pulled out from under them. Possibly. And I know that some people on the council do not like Airbnb, and I feel like this is just chipping away at them over time. And next it’ll be not just the standalone ones but also the ones that are in homes. So I really don’t approve of this. I think it’s very detrimental to say that a business is allowed. people invest their money and then the carpets pulled out from under them. In addition, talking about rental licensing, we are having a lot of issues because of the state is actually coming down quite hard on landlords lately. There are some great rules that should be in place, but other people are pressing for ones that are excessive. In my own business, I’ve seen two of my investors move their money out of the state, they have actively sold off all their properties, one has taken their money to Wyoming and one has taken it to Washington. And just today, I received an email from another investor of mine who sent me the link to the thing about the rental licensing being questioned. And she is now talking about moving her money to Wyoming and Montana. And I find this very upsetting obviously, it’s my own business. But in general, we are pushing businesses out of this state ones that have been great businesses and our landlords in general here in Longmont are great, we do have services for them. And the state also has laws that cover livable habitat, you know, habitable living. So to talk about rental licensing in Longmont, I would hope it’s been driven if it’s going to continue being driven by some sort of necessity that there’s actually a problem being seen. Otherwise, it just seems like a big waste of time. And it’s a message to our landlords that this is not a friendly place for them to be. So I really hope that you will consider this and look at what the rules are already in place. I strongly recommend that you maybe bring in to talk to the lawyer who often speaks to the landlord symposium. Her name is Deborah Wilson. She’s a string Min graveman or sorry, springmann, Braden Wilson, and Pontius and her numbers 303-685-4633. She talks to us regularly. She’s very knowledgeable about it. She’s very, very involved on Capitol Hill with the legality of rental licensing. And I just hope that before you dive into this and send the message to our landlords, that it’s going to be a hostile environment here that you would get an education on what’s already in place, because it certainly does seem sufficient. And

thank you, right.


our next caller, your phone number ends in the numbers 983 I’m going to ask you to unmute 983

there you are plenty.

Hi. Hi, my name is sorry. My name is cirino Shani and I live in Longmont in an RV and I have kommentare Rv ownership has grown from 7.9 million in 2005. To over 9 million today. 1 million Americans live in RV full time well meet the modern nomads. We are independent, self sufficient, and we are human beings that God told here just like everyone, in August 2017, you change the law for RVs to park in the street for 48 hours, and then move 600 feet. So I bought my RV in 2017 and playing by the rules. Knowing me I could park in streets legally. I know of three RV years that had to move out of Cottonwood, they are now in the streets for whatever reason. There is about 800 there is the rent is about 150 plus utilities there. Now you are trying to change the law so we can park in the street. Well, if you should be able to grandfather, those of us who are already parked in the street, stay if we want to. Some of us are not eligible for your housing programs or do we want to be as for me, I became homeless in 2013 and living with a friend and in my own my van, I bought an RV and they’re just part of my recovery from homelessness until I find a better solution to better living. whatever that may be. I have to take care of my family first. My Three Sons have no work or place to go. Besides, I help a lot of people out here, homeless and people on my job. Being a bus driver. I think that I am a first responder in putting myself in danger to COVID-19 and I think you should wait to change the RV parking lot until after COVID-19 because a lot of our viewers do not know what you’re doing because they do not have the means to go online and speak To you, or she come to a meeting. And somehow, they should be notified of your intent to change the law and time to consider it and respond. Furthermore, I would like to say, like to bring to your attention while I was driving and looking around long night last week, I drive about 40 hours. There were a lot of newer RV driving and parking here around Loma. So I suspect they’re coming out of the mountains and evacuations from the fire. Also, I am getting reports that people who are evacuated from the fire are in their cars and have a place to go. With all due respect. Now is not the time for no parking lot. Thank you very much. And I don’t envy your job.

All right, thank you very much.

All right. Our next caller, your phone number ends in 065. I’m going to ask you to unmute


  1. There you are.

Okay, hi, Bobby.

Can you hear me? We can please state your name and address for the record. You have three minutes.

Sure. Okay. Abby, dress good searching for lupine court. I’m here tonight as board chair for sustainable resilient, and I’m the client deployment, make sure the console knows, you know, we’ve been working on or nuba energy campaign 2017. and

wanted to make sure the compliments that tonight, there was a and this week rather than

therapy going forward to repower 34. And it gets us to 90% renewable energy by 2030. So, we’re happy to see that. And we’re also happy that that iorp and its current form, commit recommit to the resource diversification policy and the goal of 100% renewable energy by 2030. And, and specifically, the resolution states that trpa quote, will continue to proactively pursue a 100% non carbon energy mix by 2030 I seeking innovative solutions that will would enable rivers to provide reliable and financially sustainable electric service to its owner communities without new fossil fuel resources. And if possible, while using kyichu as the planning, vegetarian ratemaking baseline to advance Platte rivers progress charged with goal. So so just want to make sure everyone knows that before this, this natural gas plant that grass is in the current irlp would be built. There’ll be two more RPS before 2030 the next one being in 2024. And my hope is that, you know, things will keep moving in the right direction as far as technology and market forces and everything you’re hearing about that my my powers doing on distributed energy as well. And so, you know, with climate change upon us affecting Longmont, as well as obviously nearby communities in Boulder and Larimer counties, we have to act as swiftly as possible to avert a climate crisis. And we hope that future movement that favors price pinch points for solar storage, combined with technological advances in the renewable energy sector. And innovations like distributed energy will continue to support long miles transition to 100%. Renewable by 2030, if not before, so. And we do oppose any new investment in new fossil fuel infrastructure, including natural gas. And we hope that Mary Bagley and David hardiebacker will, as a representative to prfa will help us keep moving in the right direction. So thanks so much.

Thanks, Abby. Thanks.

All right, our next caller, your phone number ends in 119119. I’m going to ask you to unmute.

Hello, I

this is Karen dike. I’m at 708 Hayden court near Bagley and members. almost four years a small group of us got together to talk about renewable energy. We looked at the Sierra Club program for 100 are ready for 100 commitments. And how could we build this type of programs as a grassroots community effort in Longmont? We were waiting of the contributions of our municipal power company to our local air pollution, and also global warming. We found that others along that were also very interested and wanted to help. We had a mantra that if they could get to 100% commitment and Pueblo, we could get to 100% commitment in Longmont. We were pleased to get a proclamation by Nir Bagley in January of 2018, followed by resolution stating commitment to 100% renewable energy from the city council, long not then served as an inspiration to other cities. And the mantra there became if Longmont can do it, we can do it. SRL sustainable resilient long must work closely with a larger group to encourage our power provider to close the rawhide coal plant and replace it with renewable energy. Thursday trpa will vote on an AI RP, an AI RP outlines a plan for power generation future generation. Our group and other local groups work hard to get a commitment to 100% renewable energy in this AI Rp. We weren’t able to get that pure commitment. However, the resolution that will be voted on states that PRP will continue to work towards 100% renewable energy, and that they will review the need to build a fossil fuel plant to generate electricity in a new iorp within the next four years. All this isn’t a total win. The resolution gives us room to hope that the fossil fuel plant will never be built. My hope is that the 160 $3 million being set aside for fossil fuel plant is instead spent for storage to support a 100% renewable energy future. Innovation should make this possible. I urge council to continue to follow prps action and work towards a more sustainable future. As we look at the clear evidence that the climate is changed with all the fires this month, we all need to be thinking about how we can move away from fossil fuels. I was very impressed with the president presentation on habitat homes tonight. And it gives me great hope that long that will continue to be a leader. Thank you so much.

You heard it here first. Karen dyke was very impressed with the President. I’m sure she I’m kidding. I’m kidding, Karen. I’m kidding. All right. Let’s go ahead and go with next caller.

All right, the next caller, your phone number ends in 131. I’m going to ask you to unmute

131 There

you are. Can you hear it? Hi. Yeah, I can. Hi, my name is Nettie Penman, and I live at 609 Colliers Street. And I’m calling and supportive the bond firm community project. And I am a member of the bond farm community. And I was attracted to bond farm because it’s a community built around common interests and our community for our community, those interests, our agriculture or gardening and art. And I, myself am an artist. And I’ve worked as an as a artist more or less hobbyist for the last 50 years in clay. And over those years, I’ve gained a lot of knowledge about materials and techniques. And I’ve accumulated a lot of tools and equipment, which I would hate to abandon when it’s time for me to downsize. And fortunately, when I found out about on farm and realized that one of the interest is supporting artists and creativity, and part of the plan for bond farm is a lot of makerspace. And


because we’ll have multiple shared workspaces and our rooms, it’s going to be really, it’s going to really be an encouraging environment for creativity. And we have lots of spaces planned for displaying our work. And we want to include not only the barn one from members, but you know, the whole bond farm neighborhood and the city. And we have planned spaces for displaying artwork and for making artwork. So within bond farm, if you’re a member, you’re encouraged to sign up for one or two teams, and I’m a member of the art team and the art team has been actively involved for a few months in planning The large gate area that will be a central focal point of the project, and hopefully be very welcoming focal point and express the creativity of the artists who lives there in and are designing in and will be cooperatively, actually building it together. So, as a as a senior who’s lived in Boulder County since 1972, I’m looking forward to having bond farms be an opportunity for me to live with other among other artists and, and share the knowledge that I’ve gained and participate in lots of activities in a supportive community. So I encourage I encourage everyone to find out about non farm it’s such a unique development and is going to be a great resource for our for our community. So


Thank you.

Next, how many more? Do we have to go free?

Give me just a second. 2345. So the next caller, your phone number ends in 332. I’m going to ask you to unmute 332 Are you there?


Hello. Hello.

Yeah. Thank you all. I’m just calling.

A Yes. For the bond farm concept plan amendment, ma’am. And just didn’t? Yeah.

Oh, my name?

Yes. State your name and address for the record. Thank you.

Okay, sure. Annie Brooke.

For four to five driftwood, place, Boulder, Colorado 80301. And I am one of the invested members in the bond farm. And very much grateful for the way that city along LAN has worked in cooperation and making sure that the bond farm really follows through with the city ordinances. And we’ve done a terrific job in designing a concept designed that also bridges some of the social invitation to people outside of the exact membership. So people can join us affiliate members can use some of the resources that will be on site at the property. So I’m just calling in to ask for that ordinance approval for the concept plan amendment.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. All right.

Our next caller, your phone number ends in 418418. I’m going to ask you to unmute. Are you there?


Yes, you are, sir.

Okay, last time at last week, it just went poof on me because I was trying to do one of those things.

The reason I’m calling,

sir, Before you begin, please state your name and address for the record.

Okay, I’m sorry about that. My name is Stanley, Tokyo. I’m a longtime resident of the city line, lawn lot and calling about a proposed RV ordinance. And the reason I’ve sent the council you know, a week ago a note notice. And then I’ve actually sent a something that I want to be filing with the court if the city doesn’t follow the

law, the Colorado Open Meeting requirements.

The reason I’m making this filing this complaint is that the people who are living in RVs really haven’t been involved. You know, the city hasn’t made the effort to involve these people. And the zoom meetings themselves are really an emergency measures put in to deal with COVID. And the main thing is, is that people that are living in an RV, this is really beyond their ability to be able to participate in this. And an open meeting is more than just being able to see what the city people are doing. You You show up at a meeting you make contacts with people You’re organized. And this open meeting statute that was put in by initiative in this state is so the people of this can get involved and participate in making their own laws, and with what their city representatives, and this is totally being excluded out. And so I have sent you, hopefully, it’s gotten to you, I sent it to each one of your email address, something that if we don’t pause this in, do this RV, we just did an RV ordinance. And a lot of people like they said, are, we’re dependent on it. And so we haven’t even had a chance to see if the old ones going to work. And it’s actually illegal to rush through with something like this, and something like zoom, where you don’t really have people that are being impacted by this having a chance to participate in it. And it’s actually illegal. And that if this city is insistent, and you should read the thing that I just sent you. The law is very plain that if you have a meeting that doesn’t meet the Open Meeting requirements, anything is done. There is no invoice.

All right, and one of the thing that

I’ve given you a little over about three minutes, okay.

But we’re gonna I think I’ve said it.

All right. Thank you, buddy. All right. Next caller.

All right, our next caller, your phone number ends in 633.

I’m going to ask you to unmute


Can you hear us?

Your phone number ends in 633?

There you are.

Can you hear us? Oh, hey.

Hello, sorry. Yes, hello. We hear you. You may be Yep, go ahead.

My name is Shaquille de la I live at 609 Perry Street. I’m calling to ask council to ask with Karen deliberation and to stand up for equal protection under the law. Tonight is the first reading of an ordinance which seeks to essentially criminalize criminalize living in an RV. During the October 6 meeting of the Longmont City Council. Many members of council expressed concern that the ordinance would be used against their constituents who permanently store RVs or other vehicles in the public right of way. During that discussion, Jeff Sater told members of council that he and his officers would ensure that the law would only be enforced against those living in their RVs and that he would protect landowners from the consequences of violating that law. I was very disappointed in the members of council who allowed that to sail by without common whether we believe their behavior makes them nuisances or not and whether they are there by choice or due to economic circumstance. People who live in RVs are still people. It is wrong for the City Council to write a law whose text says it should be enforced against everyone, but to enforce only enforce it against some people, in the same way that it was wrong under Jim Crow to ensure that only people of color had to take a poll test even though that law was written to be race neutral. I understand why council feels that the only practical solution to the problem of illegal waste dumping by those living in RVs is to outlaw living in them. But writing a law which appears to apply to everyone and then asking the Longmont police with a wink and a nod to only enforce that law against people considered undesirable falls far short of the standard a community which claims to have a progressive police report should set Polk police force should set for itself.

Alright, thanks, Shaquille. All right, is that it for the callers?

No, Mayor we have two more I’m going to call again on 633 it appears another caller jumped in. So I’m going to ask 633

let’s let’s make sure we lock up this and no more callers so when we’re on first call public invited to be heard. If they’re not on the list, they don’t get in.

Right and so when you see someone mare when you see someone now in the waiting list is because after they speak, if they don’t hang up, I put them back in the waiting list in them.

Okay, I just want to make sure that we don’t have perpetual

Nope, we’re good. All right, cool. Got

got it covered there for you. Color 633. Let’s try that again. Do you hear us I’m going to ask you to unmute.

Color 633

Your area code is 724. The last three digits are 633,

isn’t it? I think we just heard from 633.

No, it was 635 that jumped in actually, council member waters. All right, I’m going to move to 9269 to six, I’m going to ask you to unmute,

either. My name is Ben sergeant, I live at 744 at woods, Old Town east side. And I was attended the study session last week on the Smart Meter issue.

And I have a few comments and observations on that.

I have a friend of number of years who was a

an RF engineer for the Jet Propulsion Laboratory

in NASA group, and sustained in neurological injury on the job and had to retire. And he spent the years since then


what the RF exposure that he gets in his neighborhood. And he states categorically that the smart meters are not safe. And that people need to, you know, get to independent research on that and not listen to the industry. People who are either or just not not actually using fake science methods,

but obviously financially motivated. And so, as an example of that, I was shocked during the study session, that the ex so called experts from Boulder County had some very questionable data that he shared. And he

constantly woman Martin pointed out that the figures that he was getting for RSS

coming off of a smart meter didn’t seem to include the transceiver. What are the, you know, the signal generator, but was just sort of the base level equipment without full, you know, you know, not as it’s actually configured, when it’s put on at home? And so I thought that that was really strange, like, Where did he get that slide? Obviously, from somebody in the industry, I don’t think he would have come up with those figures himself. But it shows poor research. And that really concerned me.

I get my exercise walking around the neighborhoods.

And nobody brought up the fact that he did that. It’s not a matter of you know, how much RF is coming off of a single meter. You’re being bathed from all directions. And we have already have, you know, too many cell phone towers very dangerous all the way back. 3g is dangerous. 4g is dangerous, five G’s. You know, even more dangerous than that’s coming in. We have all kinds of Wi Fi so the electronics small in long line is very concerning. And, you know, smart meters think about sir. No,

sir. There’s no good time to catch off, but we’re well over three minutes, but okay. All right. Well, and but we invite you back, though. Thank you.

All right. We’re gonna go back to that last caller. See if they can pick up

right if they don’t pick up within about 15.

Whoops, I put the wrong one in the waiting room. Let’s do this again. Caller 633. I’m going to ask you to unmute caller 633. Are you there?


Hello. Can you hear me? We sure can we can hear you. Oh, good. Thank you. I got in. Okay.

So should I go ahead?

Yes, please state your name and

address for the record and my main remit. Thank you. All right. My name is Marion rugae. I have called before. I live at 70 21st Avenue. And I’m talking again about people with disabilities. And I’m calling it disability awareness. Because it’s important for the general public to know to be aware of people with disabilities and how word, the word the word disability actually means an inability to function in a physically or mentally normal way. And normal meaning, the way a regular person would be able to function, it doesn’t mean that they’re abnormal mentally or anything like that. So the ability to do that can be, can affect a person’s ability to get around, ability to communicate. And so, because of that, my disability prevents me from walking in a normal way at a normal rate, because of injuries to my feet and legs. So I don’t know how long I’m going to be able to say this, because I wrote a lot of notes this year. But the thing is, if the general public is more aware of this, and education is needed, I believe, for people in whatever way the education can occur for those who are motivated to learn. And for those who can be educated in ways in which they know when running a business, they need to be aware that the disabled person does have certain needs, and be aware that they are not to be told to do something that they’re not able to do. Once again, the word disability means inability to function, or walk, or do things in a, quote, normal way. So in other words, when one goes into a restaurant, and one has a walker, like I do, and the host or hostess comes over and says, I’m going to take your Walker now and put it in a corner. That happens a lot in restaurants, especially when I’m alone. So for me to speak up for myself, it’s difficult. So I do the best I can. And I say I need my Walker with me. So when the general public and business people are aware of this, then they are more amenable to that person’s needs as a disabled person. So to be nice, and take the Walker and, and put it in a corner may seem like a nice thing to do over that person. That’s their amenity. And they need wisdom. Usually, usually they do, sometimes they don’t. But if they do need it with them, then the host or hostess and the manager, need to have a seat for that person where they can have their Walker nearby. That’s one example of the general public having an awareness of a disabled person’s needs, and really meeting those needs and being amenable to them and having good customers who are disabled people. I think that’s all I’m gonna say, right? Because there’s much more to say. But education is needed of the general public when one when a disabled person is out alone, especially without a helper. That disabled person has to speak for themselves. And it can be difficult when the general public is not aware that that disabled person has special needs.

Thanks for listening. Thanks, Marian.

All right. You’re welcome. Thank you.

All right. That concludes first call public invited to be heard. Let’s move on the consent agenda. Don, can you read that for us?

Good evening, Mayor. I’m just going to remind you that item nine I was removed from the agenda by staff at late date or at a late hour so I will not read that into the record. I’ll skip that one. So item nine is ordinance 2020 dash 51. A bill for an ordinance making additional appropriations for expenses and liabilities of the city of Longmont for the fiscal year beginning January 1 2020. public hearing and second reading scheduled for November 10 2029 B is ordinance 2020 dash 52. A bill for an ordinance adopting the budget for the city of Longmont for the year 2021 public hearing and second reading scheduled for November November 10 2029 C is ordinance 2020 dash 53. A bill for an ordinance making additional making appropriations for the expenses and liabilities of the city of Longmont for the fiscal year beginning January 1 2021. public hearing and second reading scheduled for November 10 2029 D is ordinance 2020 dash 54. Bill for an ordinance amending section 3.0 4.85 of the Longmont municipal code, adopting an amendment to the employee contribution requirement of the city of Longmont, General Employees Retirement Plan. public hearing and second reading scheduled for November 10 2029. Is ordinance 2020 dash 55. A bill for an ordinance authorizing a farmland lease agreement between the city of Longmont and Joseph m doe Jeff on the French property, public hearing and second reading scheduled for November 10 2029. f is ordinance 2020 dash 56 a bill for an ordinance conditionally approving the vacation of right away within the villas that you Creek subdivision. Generally located north of 17th Avenue and west of pace street public hearing and second reading scheduled for November 10 2029 G is ordinance 2020 dash 57. A bill for an ordinance amending chapter 11 of the Longmont municipal code and vehicles abandoned kept on public property or junked, public hearing and second reading scheduled for November 10 2029. Ages ordinance 2020 dash 58. A bill for an administrative ordinance approving the purchase. Just option agreement to convey a parcel of city owned land located at 2000 sunset way to sunset element LLC. public hearing and second reading scheduled for November 10 2029 j is resolution 2020 dash 106 a resolution of the Longmont city council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city and Colorado State University for receiving loaned material for an upcoming museum exhibit. Nine K is resolution 2020 dash 107 the resolution of the Longmont city council approving the application for change of water rights and confirming the city’s conditional appropriation of water rights in connection with the change of shares in the bonus ditch company. Nine L is resolution 2020 dash 108 a resolution of the Longmont city council approving the intergovernmental agreement between the city of Longmont and the United States Geological Survey to provide streamflow gauges on the boulder left hand in St. Fran creeks. Nine M is resolution 2020 dash 109 a resolution of Longmont city council supporting the grant application to the Department of local affairs to reduce the carbon footprint of long months wastewater treatment plant and nine in his approve one Capital Improvement Program amendment.

All right. Do I have a motion or and or a removal of these items? Can I get the council back please? Then, Councillor Christiansen?

I thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would like to pull Item A and item g for discussion.

All right, can I please see the entire screen? I need that back?

merit maybe on your end? You may need to change your view in the upper right.

corner right. I am seeing two seconds. Why am I only seeing eight people?

I’m only gallery view at the top. Yeah, that’s what I’m at.

There’s only the six of you all on camera. Yeah. Okay.

All right. All right. That that would be why

all right.

I just got so scared when it’s just us feel so lonely. or anybody else want to pull anything? Councillor pack?

I don’t want to pull anything. I was gonna make a motion. Go for

it. Jonah. Cheers.

Okay, I move that we move the consent agenda minus items A and G.

I will take out I will take that as a motion to include also i which the staff also asked to remove. It’s been moved in Second. It’s been moved and seconded. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed say nay. All right, consent agenda is accepted and passed unanimously. All right. Moving on to ordinances on second reading and public hearings on any matter. We’re going to go ahead and take a two minute break and if you are waiting to call in for any of the second us ordinances on second reading, you will need to call in now. So we will be back in two minutes. So stay close. We can blaze through this. All right. Thank you.

So folks, we’ve let in a few callers for the public invited to be heard. Sorry, the public hearing section of our meeting. We’re going to leave you on mute. And as each of these ordinances come up for their public hearing, we will ask you to raise your virtual hand by pressing star nine on your phone when we read out the particular ordinance, and that will give us a clue that you want to speak on that particular item. And if we don’t hear from you, we will leave you in the queue for the next item and so forth. If you don’t raise your hand, during any of them, we’ll check in with you at the end of the public hearing. So again, raise your hand star nine as we call out each of the different ordinances.

Many people are in the queue.

Mayor, we have three at this point

that I’ve led in. Perfect Can I get the screen back?


All right, we miss it.

So give us like 20 seconds and wait for the scholarship. What you Susie? What


Susie? Is it better than my stuff? I need to know. I’m sorry. I’ve been

my dinner. I’ve been trying to eat it some 530 I just want to know what it is. Again.

What kind of chicken


Alright, that’s pretty good. That’s pretty good. I’m a little jealous. I like eating. I like eating during the zoom meetings. I don’t know why maybe this isn’t boring in my kitchen. Alright, let’s go ahead and start with 10 a. ordinance 2020 is 44 bill for an ordinance making additional appropriations for the expenses and liabilities the city of Longmont for fiscal year beginning January 1 2020. Staff there’s no report. Are there any questions from council? Seeing none, we’ll go ahead and open the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to speak on this item?

Is everybody raising their hand? Susan?

Mayer I’m not seeing anyone yet.

around the world. Well,

we’ll go ahead and close the public hearing. If somebody pops in we’ll revisit the issue. Can we have a motion for ordinance 20 2044 I will move ordinance 2020 dash 44. Do I have a second? Second? It’s been moved by myself seconded by Councilmember waters. All in favor say aye.

Aye. All opposed say nay.

All right, motion passes unanimously. 10 b ordinance 20 2045. A bill for an ordinance fixing and living taxes upon the real and personal property within the city of Longmont for the year 2022 Bay budget and city expenses for the 2021 fiscal year.

There’s no staff report. Is there a counselor Peck?

Um, thank you. I just want to clarify that we are not raising taxes. We’re fixing the taxes that we’ve already levied. Last year, is that correct?

That’s correct. No change in the tax rate.

Thank you, Jim. All right.

With that, oh, we need it. Let’s go ahead and put it for I’ll call on you as soon as we have a public hearing counselor. All right. We’ll go ahead and open it for public hearing. Is there anyone who hit star nine that would like to address this issue?

I do not see anyone at this point, Mayor.

Oh, we’ll go ahead and close the public hearing customer CAC. Would you like to make a motion?

I do. I move ordinance 2020 dash 45.

All right. It’s been moved by Councilmember Peck seconded by Councilmember Martin. I know Dr. Waters did but it was Councillor Martin as well. So we’ll go Councillor Martin. And all in favor say aye.

Aye. Opposed say nay.

All right, the motion passes unanimously. Item See ordinance 2020. That’s 46 a bill for an ordinance fixing levying taxes on the real personal property with the Lamont downtown development district for the year 2020 to pay budgeted expenses along with downtown development authority for 2021. fiscal year. We are fixing not raising taxes. Same question, same answer, I presume, to Councillor Peck. All right. There’s no staff report. Councilmember Martin. Have questions.

No, I no question. I was gonna make motion but I forgot you.

Go ahead. That’s all right. Let’s go ahead and open the public hearing. If you would like to speak on this matter. Go ahead and hit star nine to raise your hand please.

Anybody? not seeing anyone, Mayor.

All right. We’ll go ahead and close the public hearing. Customer Martin. We’d like to make a motion.

Yeah, I move adoption.

All right. I’ll second that. Order. It’s 2020 to 36 has been moved by Councilmember Martin second about myself. Seeing no further discussion debate. All in favor say aye.

Aye. Aye.

Opposed say nay. ordinance 20 2046 passes unanimously. Moving on attendee ordinance 2020. That’s 47 a bill for an ordinance conditionally approving the vacation of a pedestrian trail easement associated with the 110 Emery minor subdivision plat and site plan generally located south of Second Avenue and east of Emory Street. All right, there’s no staff report. Let’s go ahead and open it for public hearing. Hit star nine. This is the issue that you’d like to speak on police.

Mayor, I’m not seeing anyone respond.

Right. We’ll go ahead and close the public hearing on ordinance 2020. That’s 47 does anyone have a motion? counselor Christiansen?

I I don’t

have any thing to say. Oh,

I thought you’re gonna make a motion. I saw some fingers. I’ll move ordinance. 20 dash 47

second. Let’s move up.

Okay. It’s been moved by Mayor Bagley and seconded by Dr. Waters.

All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Opposed say nay. All right, ordinance 2020 1447 passes unanimously. 10 e ordinance 20 2048. A bill for an ordinance amending section 15.0 3.080 the Longmont municipal code on zoning districts measurements and exceptions. Is there a staff report on this URL? I’m assuming no, no. All right. Let’s go ahead and Alright, that’s what I thought but just making sure let’s go ahead and open the first public hearing on this matter. If you’re here to talk about the municipal code on zoning districts, go ahead and hit star nine.

I am not seeing anyone respond.

All right, we’ll go ahead and close the public hearing on ordinance 2020 s 48. Do we have a motion from a council member will move approval

of ordinance 20 2048. Second,

all right. Orders 2022 48. has been moved by Dr. Waters. Seconded by Councilman Martin. On favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. All right, the motion passes unanimously. I think I saw Councillor Christiansen his lips move so we’re going to count it as an eye. All right, so that passes unanimously. All right. 10 f ordinance 2020 is 40. A bill for an ordinance approving the concept plan amendment for the bond farm rezoning and annexation agreement located at 1313 spruce Street. I’m thinking that this is star nine. Time to hit star nine folks. We want to talk about the bond concept plan.

We’ll go ahead and read your last four

digits and we will hear what you have to say.

All right, I’m going to ask 073 to unmute yourself. Are you there? 073.

Caller that phone that has a phone number that ends in 073. Can you unmute yourself?

Let’s go to the next one.

All right.

The next caller your phone number ends and three up 073 Are you there?

Hello. Yeah, yes. Are you can you hear me?

Yes. Are you here to speak on you just muted yourself. Let’s try that again. Caller zeros. There you are.

Okay, you can hear me My name is Steven Rutherford. And I’m soon to be moving to Longmont, my daughter and granddaughters live in Longmont and my wife and I have been

involved in the bond farm project for now four years. It’s been a long week, but I want you to know we’re we’re incredibly excited about being able to be a part of that community excited because it’s, it’s near the center of town. We look forward to being able to get ourselves around by bicycle visit our our daughter and granddaughters on on the bike path that goes right through bond farm. My wife is also an artist and is really looking forward to being a part of the art community that’s going to be there and as well the the two acre farm so that we’re looking forward to being a part of that effort to grow our own food and be sustainable in that way. So I I’m I’m really excited to be a part of what I think will be a real shining star for the town of Longmont soon to be my home. Thank you

Next door.

Thank you The next caller, your phone number ends in 350. I’m going to ask you to unmute 350

caller 350

I’m going to move on to the next caller

caller 418 Nope, there’s 350 Are you there?

Yes, I’m here. Great. This is

I’m Jean Jasmine. I reside at 210 and a half Lincoln street in Longmont and I’m a member of the bond farm cohousing community. And I’m really excited to be with people who are in the Healthy Aging community. There are so many ways in which we can support each other. And I’m going to

decrease Can you hear me?

Yes we can.


In healthy aging, there are two basic

things that we need to consider both the need to receive and the need to give with bontoc cohousing community we can receive by sharing the work of home maintenance and operations, things like appliances and technology. We can share the pet care for neighbors when needed, we can share the use of cars and shopping trips. And we can give to others which creates self and thought empowerment. We can help by assisting our neighbors in whatever needs they have at a moment’s notice, which is real hard with you just living in separate houses on a regular block. We can share our skills, our knowledges the personal histories we have that will build a sense of home and family among the members of the community. And then for young families. We can help with childcare and become in quotes grandparents and have grandkids relationships there at the community on a natural basis where we are there to support the parents and the kids and the kids are there to support us as well with their delightful growing up processes. This builds character and knowledge and understanding and all of us and we know that it’s going to be a very well developed structurally and socially community as it’s Peter Spalding has developed it over the years and everyone has that has been involved, as had a participant has been a participant In sharing their opinions and skills in the development of the community, we appreciate Oh, man,

we’re well over three minutes, but we appreciate you calling in and speaking on this matter. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Is that it? Was there one more?

Mayor? We have one last caller?

caller 418. I’m going to ask you to unmute caller 418. Caller 418.

There you are.

Stand tall. I didn’t really know. I didn’t I don’t have a exact thing that comes to comment on on on these particular issues here.

All right, good. Thanks, Dan. Appreciate it.

All right, let’s go ahead and close the public hearing on ordinance 20 2049. I’m seeing a counselor Christiansen.

Yeah, I just have a few comments. Um, well, I have one question for Peter Spaulding. After that he can answer after this.


I’ve been hearing about that. I was very, very enthused about this for quite some time. I’ve been hearing about this for 10 years. Believe. And I do wish them good luck. I do think it has the potential to be something really wonderful and creative and interesting. I would ask the people involved to be very cognizant of the fact that they are changing that neighborhood forever. From one that was semi rural, where people walk their dogs and looked out over a wide landscape. Now they will be looking at houses. And so I would just ask people to be cognizant of that and really make friends with the neighborhood not just your own community. I would also like to, I would also like Mr. Spaulding to explain why they were not able to actually put in the pedestrian path that would have been really an asset to the neighborhood in 10 years.

Mr. Spaulding.

Good evening, Mayor Bagley and city council members. Yeah, so for your for the first part of your comments. As far as making friends with the neighbors. Currently, I have up for sale, we started this project in 2015. The concept plan was approved in 2016. And since then, I have opened up the property for their for the neighbors to walk their animals on our property. So I’ve already engaged with many of the neighbors and they all know who I am. And they all know the level of transparency I’ve offered to them. And that’s one of the reasons why we’re donating the park is so that they do have access prior to me coming. Bringing this project to the city of Long mine. No one was able to really enjoy the land or walk the land at all. So they were only alone, were only able to walk their dogs or to walk the neighborhood along spruce Avenue. I thought we were going to be doing a presentation. But the one of the reasons or the reasons why we can’t do the Northwest trail on the west side. There are several issues. One you all know that those properties on the west boundary are both Boulder County. So that poses Yeah, both properties on both sides of Francis street or Boulder County. They haven’t been annexed into Longmont yet. So there’s going to be an additional review criteria there for us for the new infrastructure. When we originally proposed the trail, it was a five foot wide crush gravel trail that we were going to do. And over time in order to meet code, the city want really wanted a 10 foot wide concrete road and that just didn’t fly at all with the neighbors. So in response to that, I asked the Hildebrand Public Works myself My design team all to come together We met at the planning department, and we all came up with a feasible plan. And so in

in our presentation this evening.

Susan, can you bring that up?

Eva, is it time for for us to go ahead and do that are?

Sure, yes. Um, council members and Mayor, we did have a staff presentation and an applicant presentation. I’m willing to waive mine If you don’t need any background. And so Susan, if you’d like to queue up, Peters,


So good the next page, please.

So this is just a aerial perspective. Basically, it shows the layout of our design the future city park, the area where we’ll be doing the community supported agriculture. It’s a 46 unit development for affordable units, six live work units, 36 residential units and 8000 square feet of amenities. Next slide, please.

Next slide, please think Oh,

hang on just a minute. For some reason. It was stuck on pause. Let’s do that again.

Do you see it now?

Yes. So I want to concentrate on the graphic. In the bottom right corner. You can see where a bond from cohousing community property is in the gray. And then the colored area is the the future city park. And the lines going east and west from bond farm are the existing trails. So there’s a 40 foot elevation change from the southwest portion of our property to the northwest portion of our property. And that grade exceeds 15%. So it’s really not a safe grade. So working with natural resources, parks and natural resources, we all came up with a plan. If you look up at the graphic on the right where it has the blow up portion, there’s a bond farm Neighborhood Association Park that’s managed by managed by the neighbors. That white line that’s going through the park is the existing gravel. So this city so what we worked out as an alternative to having the the Northwest trail along the west boundary of our property is to go ahead and turn that crushed gravel pathway and do all the survey work on that site and then add the existing concrete five foot wide trail that would connect bond farm cohousing community, to the west side of the future city park and then we would continue the sidewalk from the east side of this future city park and carry it to Grant Street. And that meets all the ADA requirements. So we feel that that’s a much better design.

If you go into the next slide, please.

So having worked with the help of brands, public works and our design team, this was an acceptable plan for the hill, the brands and mark on Wagner and the other two properties that are in the cul de sac south of our property.

Thank you. We have been

I’m sorry. Thank you. I think that’s this is a good explanation of the difficulties.

Yeah, so the so they wanted something that was much more green, and not so intrusive on their property. So this was the design that we came up with. along the entire process. Over the last couple years. I’ve been working with Mark who has the property north of the hill, the brands, and we all agreed that this was probably the best design and least intrusive on their property because they’re very concerned about their property values. So having worked with public works, the planning department has agreed to this design and it was passed by the planning and zoning commission unanimously. So we’re confident that all the parties feel that this is a good design and we feel that the route that will take pedestrians to the east to Grand Street and Grand street two First Avenue is, is the safest and best route for local pedestrians. And then also, we did a pedestrian study with the traffic study. And I have Brian horn on the line, who’s our traffic engineer. And the the pedestrian traffic is actually very light here along spruce. So and my office faces the road. So I’ve been I know all the people that walk by here and and the quantity of people that walk by. So we basically came down to a decision to make this proposal and

it’s been accepted by like I said, planning and zoning.

Oh, all right. Thank you, Peter. Thank you. Does that answer your question?

Yes. Thank you. All right.

The see here. All right. We’ve already had the public hearing on this matter. So does someone want to commotion somebody?

I will move ordinance 2020 dash 49.

All right. It’s been moved and seconded myself. The Counselor Martin seconded it. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. All right, ordinance 20 2049. passes unanimously. All right. Let’s move on to the items that we pulled from the consent agenda. A I believe in G were it a councillor Christiansen? Let’s start with a or it’s 2020. That’s 51 a bill for an ordinance making additional appropriations.

Okay, I’m not sure that

this includes what I wanted to discuss. I I wanted to make a few comments about 529 jump funding, which I believe is part of this. Is that correct? Or not?

No? I don’t think so. Jim?

Sorry. No, it’s not this is a ditional appropriations ordinance for 2020. And it concerns that we’re going to get firming project.


okay. If we can, right. So, Paul, if we could have you make those comments, either during mayor and council member comments at the end of the meeting? Or if you want us to discuss something in the future? Yeah, can talk about it early next meeting during appropriate time, or just talk to me and text me and say, Hey, I’d like put this on the agenda. 100% of the time anyone has ever asked me to put something on the agenda I have. So all right. Um, but Okay, why don’t we we’re Yeah,

Harold, we actually wanted to pull this the staff for like a two slide presentation on the numbers on this one?

Nope. No, go ahead. Throw it up. Becky.

All right. I don’t know. I

think it was gonna say something here. But

I am. So as Becky gets ready to present this item. Mayor Bagley and members of City Council staff thought it was important to take just a couple of minutes. If you read the appropriation on its face, we don’t believe it’s really clear with regards to the actions that are happening on the windy gap firming project. This appropriation is one that the council needs to consider ahead of us, bringing to you on November 10, the windy gap allotment contracts and the escrow agreement along with the transfer of capacity to both Loveland and Fort Lupton. And so I think it’s important, both for the public and for councils understanding to take just a couple of minutes. And I think Becky can walk us through about two slides to make that clear.

Fate. Yes, good evening, mayor and council members. And Becky Doyle, Assistant Director of Business Services. Gonna get the next slide, Susan. Awesome. So we just have two quick tables of numbers here. When we last spoke about the windy gap firming project in August. We were talking about this line here or this column here in the middle, where the total contribution from the city to the project would be $55.8 million, which included an accounting of our previous contributions to the project as well as an estimated future contribution of just under 48 million. The contract that you will see on November 10, along with the second reading of this appropriation ordinance shows that we have a future contribution to the project at 49.9 8 million. And additionally we are now accounting for the the reimbursement that we have received for our sunk costs for the transferred capacity to P RPA. Which was completed when we moved from 10,000 acre feet to 8000 acre feet as well as the transfers to Loveland and Fort Lupton. That will be approved That will be on the agenda on November 10. So, all of those things taken together, the total cost has gone from 55 point 8 million to 56.3. So there is a small cost increase overall of $546,000, which is not approximately 1% of the total project cost. So, next slide please. So, why are you seeing if the project cost is increased by $100,000? Why is the appropriation request for 4.8 million, along with getting to the actual number that we will need to provide to to the project after execution of the allotment contract. We’re also rebalancing which funds that money is coming from. So there are four funding sources that we’re using to pay for the project. The first listed here is water cash acquisition, that has a revenue source of cash in lieu of water rights received as property is planted in the city. And that can only be used for expanding water supply. So we need to use as much as possible for that it’s that on this supply project, and since we last appropriated funds for the project, an additional approximately a million dollars has become available in that fund balance. So that’s the first number over in the right, that’s part of the appropriation request. No change to the raw water storage Fund, which can only be used for storage projects such as this. And then the water construction fund is a funding source that has revenues that come from system development fees, as new properties become part of the water utility. We also had additional available fund balance there. And so we’re increasing the contribution from that fund. So what that means is that the approved water bonds that the electors approved in 2017, we had allocated 35.58 from those bonds to be part of the project costs. But as you can see, the required contribution from the bonds actually decreases to get to our total 49.9 8 million. And what that means is that increasing those other funding sources, decreases the amount of debt that’s required to finance the project in full, thereby decreasing burdens on ratepayers.

And that’s all I have there.

All right, great. Paulie, would you like to make a motion on Oregon’s 2020 dish? cathro Peck.

Thank you. I just have a couple of questions. Becky. The very first slide said there was a fort Lupton was in that ball. Can you explain one more time like what fort Lupton is doing? are we selling water to Fort Lupton?

You’re muted Dale,

Councilmember Peck.

What’s happening is when the council decided to go from 8000 to 7500 acre feet and the project, that 500 acre foot adjustment, the city has been able to convey that if you will, to both a portion of it to Fort Lupton and a portion of it to the city of Loveland. And so those two entities are paying us and you’ll see that on November 10 for their pro rata share of our sunk costs.

Okay, that makes sense. Thank you for that.

Paulie, you pulled it you want to make the motion or do want somebody else to do that. Somebody else?

All right on the board is 20 2051.

All right, it’s been moved by myself seconded by Councillor Martin. All in favor of ordinance. 20 2051. say aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Opposed say nay.

All right, that ordinance 20 2051. passes unanimously. Polly, you are a Tasman christison Let’s move on to 10 g ordinance 2022 57. A bill for an ordinance amending chapter 11. Yeah, junk or ban vehicles.

Okay, once again, I’m not voting for this.

Once again, we refer to sleeper vehicles. If you Google sleeper vehicle. It states that a sleeper vehicle is one that is both economical and high powered. It has nothing. It’s an erroneous term, and it confuses things we need to put at the beginning. Well, that’s one objection. We need to define what we’re doing what we’re supposed to be doing here is trying to fix the problem of people living and residing and sleeping in their vehicles on the street. But we’re not doing that we’re basically making everything every RV illegal, and then working it back to make it mostly it’s illegal, but you have to come down and you have to get a permit and then just state what you’re trying to do. It is illegal to if this is what we want to do, it is illegal to live reside and sleep in your vehicle on the streets of Longmont. If that’s what we want to do, then we should say that Secondly, we need to define what kind of vehicles which would be it’s later on down here at the bank. At the end it says it does list a number of vehicles and it should also say any vehicle converted to be used to sleep in.


I just I think that this whole thing is a mess. We have not fixed the problem of this being under junked. And well, it’s called abandoned or publicly kept vehicles. Most people don’t really understand what a publicly kept vehicle is. And we also still have the ordinance in here about unregistered vehicles being junked vehicles. We I thought we had agreed that we were going to separate out vehicles with expired plates as not something subject to towing. I know some people think that they’re not told they’re told that they’re not. It’s not evenly enforced. It is unevenly enforced against people who are poor, and that’s wrong. So I’m not voting for this till it’s straightened out.

That was the IDR. Right, that we did decide and talk about unregistered vehicles being able to junk vehicle but that’s a that’s a different ordinance.

Well, let’s listen to this. And here

it is. Mike.

I’ve got a question for Mr. Whole. My question is, Councilmember Christiansen pointed out, or has brought up some questions about the definitions and looking at Google. Does the statute clearly define those terms?

My opinion it does.

Okay. All right. I’m going to go ahead and move orders. 2020 dash 57. Second, all right, it’s been moved and seconded. Let’s go ahead and have debate on matter counselor pick.

Um, I have some questions about this. I’m going to go back to the ordinance. And if you go to page one, Section two, line 16.

It says something about Hold on.

Oh, where it says St. Le or other right of way. Can you tell me if right away incur includes hub city, Longmont, public parks and public trailheads? Because I remember specifically amending that motion to include that. So what does right of way mean?

My interpretation is that the public property section, the very first term, covers all of the things that you just talked about. Any vehicle parked on public property, including and so the including doesn’t is not an exhaustive list. It’s any, anything that falls into public property, and so the trailheads fall into public property in the same way.

Okay. Um,

okay, hold on. I also have page two section one, where you say, any vehicle,


it starts out any vehicle other than a sleeper vehicle left on public property, including any portion of a highway Street, do your right away for 48 hours or longer. When you say any vehicle, are you talking about any car, whether any car in long month that is left on public property on a public street is

not allowed for over 48 hours.

I apologize for the confusion here, that that’s in the current code. It got reshuffled, so it looks like a new addition. But that’s that’s just in the current code and been moved around.

That’s how

I am going Make a motion then that we remove this, it is very, or we reword it. It’s very confusing. For example, when you say any vehicle, if I leave, there are many, many sections of this town that do not have garages and they park on public right in front of their house on the road. I find that this, this little paragraph here is not equitable to our city.


it targets. The lower east side and the lower west side of the older homes that do not have any garages are in place to park, if they if they are gone for a weekend, if they are home for the weekend, or three days for three day holiday, and they don’t move that car, then this subjects them to being towed or ticketed. And I don’t think we should leave this up to the discretion of our Public Safety Department to decide whether to tow that that vehicle or not. It does, there’s no way to to say that that owner of that house also owns the car parked in front of their street. So I think this is a problem we need to we just need to remove it. It doesn’t make any sense. Any vehicle any vehicle, except for a sleeper vehicle.

All right, well, there’s currently a motion on the table. I guess my my, my comments are counselor back it would be just as easily. What if I take my car and I park in front of their house for longer than 48 hours? And they can’t get any parking? Because I parked my car there. But we you are you are a member of council? If I remember correctly, you voted for this. Not that that’s not a that’s not i’m not questioning you. Or what I’m saying is we debated this. And we didn’t want cars parked on the street. I wanted 72 hours and then believe is Jeff Moore that made the motion to go to 48. And we made it 48 outfitted 48 I would not be opposed to revisiting the matter. But not not necessarily tonight in this particular motion. I wouldn’t have a problem bringing it up in the future me me.

Well, this is what this is what first ordinance is about Mayor Bagley and yes, I did vote for this. But as we have moved forward, it’s time to look at what is not working in our ordinances and this is the time to do it. On first ordinance, do we do we all vote to let this ordinance go through? And then we bring it back again? Seven or eight months? That to me doesn’t make any sense? Um, what why would we do that? This is the time to look at this draft and decide whether we want to vote for it as is. Or do we?

Right, I guess I guess my this is the other than Has anybody gotten any complaint from anybody? About a 48 hour time limit or parking our streets? I mean, Councillor Krishna, you’re nodding your head, but who, when where I haven’t heard of one?

Like constantly get complaints.

Alright, so

that was that was the other one. Um,

all right. So there’s a motion on the floor. Okay. And Councillor Christiansen?

I am. Um, I also think that we agreed that we would not that this would be taking place, January 1 or something that we would not bring this forth until we had actually tried to find locate places where people who are now living in Arby’s could relocate, right, he’s talking to both Boulder County and weld County. All of the RV parks are booked up solid for any foreseeable future. And new ones are not being built. And we have no i don’t know that we have talked to weld County. I don’t know that. We have talked at length with Boulder County. So I think we should table this until we have actually done something about that. Let’s hear from Mr. Whole

last section of the ordinance sets the effective date of January 1. So it’s not a code change, but it’s the last section of the ordinance.

And so the would Anyway, thank you, or is there anybody else who wants to speak for against this Councillor Martin?

Yeah, I just have a bunch of questions to clarify about this. So we, um, have the effective date of the ordinance to be January 1, which means that we have not been able to arrange any place off the streets for sleeper vehicles to park. So the solution is just to let them exist under the present ordinance for another two months. Is that what you’re saying?

But let me jump in and answer a couple of these questions that came out. So let me ask Karen to jump in with me on this conversation. So the first piece is, we have had conversations with Boulder County. This did go to Karen, if you can help me that HSBC. HSBC, I like Karen, like the Executive Board of HSBC. They did not support the request of using the fairgrounds. But they brought other options in play that they wanted to put forward. So that was one piece, the item still has to go to the Boulder County Commissioners, within the next few weeks that obviously got caught up with the work that they Boulder County was doing with the fire. Jan and I did touch base late last night. And so it’ll be in the next few weeks when that goes to the commissioners for them to consider and talk about. That’s one piece. The piece on the other side that I think Councilmember Christiansen was talking about was the individual who wanted to expand his existing location that was in weld County, we have connected with that individual. And we are setting up a meeting with him so that we can help facilitate a conversation with weld county on that issue. So we have had both of those conversations. Karen, do you want to add what HSBC has put forward?

Sure, thanks. Thanks, Carol, mayor and city council. So the so the, as Eric mentioned, that the the executive board of the homeless solutions for Boulder County did not support using the fairgrounds in in the way that that was requested. But, but but a couple of things that the Boulder County did submit for long months, a couple of things. One was a proposal as part of the emergency solutions grant that was submitted in October 23 $480,000. For for bridge housing, and basically, if we’re paying for hotel space for for folks who needed temporary housing, that certainly would apply to people who would be impacted by this particular ordinance who are currently using their sleeper vehicles on public property for for living. The second thing is in and we, the county should hear by mid November, whether or not they were successful in receiving that grant. So we don’t know if they are successful in receiving that grant with the with the executive board is going to recommend to the commissioners is that the county figure out a way or explore way to upfront those dollars, so that we would have access to those funds sooner as opposed to later to help people who be impacted by this particular ordinance. Sometimes it takes a few months to to execute a contract with the state. And so that was their recommendation was to affect those funds, if indeed, the state did grant the funds to Boulder County. And the second piece of that grant was was also to fund an outreach team that would that would certainly continue to work in in Longmont similar to what they’ve implemented in the city of Boulder and outreach team that would really work more specifically with people experiencing homelessness, to help get folks into housing and exited from homeless

and more

To be continued to look at outreach efforts to get people into housing that have been difficult to get into housing. So that’s the recommendation from the executive board that again, we go to the county commissioners, which Harold had mentioned what will probably be happening after the first part of November.

So I had several other questions

related to this. One of them is residents have called in one resident in particular has called in And asked a question that I suspect other RV or sleeper vehicle dwellers have, which is what happens to the vehicle in particular, one person has more than once expressed the sentiments that his vehicle would be confiscated and that he would be jailed. Can I have somebody because I’m pretty sure nobody’s going to be jailed for being homeless. We don’t do that. But I’d like to hear somebody say it, what’s going to happen to the vehicles and what’s going to happen to the person.

This just at our mayor Council.

I did as Donda load a form, but I’m police and code enforcement. We do tag these vehicles I got an example of it’s in Spanish and English, we would continue that practice. As an example. Most of our abandoned vehicles and junk vehicles are complaint based, as they’re badly stated. It’s parked in front of somebody’s home. There are hundreds of miles of roadway in our city and our officers don’t have an idea whether a car belongs at a house or not. It’s usually based on a complaint from someone in that neighborhood about a vehicle. So we tagged the vehicle in 2019. With cars,

we tagged

2000 or I’m sorry, we responded on 20 417 abandoned vehicle complaints. And in 2019, or I’m sorry, in 2020, we’ve responded to 1700 and 96 abandoned vehicle complaints. In 2020. We have towed 30 cars, and in 2020. In 2019, we towed 61. So most of the people have complied with the request to move their vehicle after it was tagged or notified. Again, it’s not officers finding these vehicles, it’s based on a complaint from a neighbor or somebody pointing out and saying there’s a car that’s been parked in front of my house for multiple days, could you please come in and check on it. We do the same thing with RVs. And we use that same form and we would continue to use that form. So if we did notify the owner of an RV that their RV or sleeper vehicle was illegally parked, they would have an opportunity to move that vehicle to another location. That what the city ordinance says that they should not move it to another public street in our city, but they should find somewhere else. There’s, there’s our tag right there if you want to look at it. But we do give lots of warning. And because of the buisiness we often do not come back for a day or two or three sometimes before we can get back to those vehicles. But currently, we we repeatedly tag and chase these vehicles around as you know, we get a lot of complaints about these Arby’s being parked at different locations and trashing the neighborhoods and concerns about all kinds of of issues associated with those vehicles. So we would be tagging them, but we we don’t arrest people for

for this ordinance, we would impound the vehicle.

So So only a couple of specific answers to the So Tim, can someone go to jail for this?

And the way the codes written, Jeff, that I’m aware of that.

I’m not aware of anybody that’s ever gone to jail for an abandoned vehicle.

So that that’s the first question that I think Councilmember Martin asks. I think the second question is a little bit harder to answer because it also depends on the condition of the RV in whether it’s movable or in its condition at the end of the day, because if you remember, some of the issues we have with some of the RVs is they’re not in operating condition. They have issues in terms of their greywater systems which is contaminating the streets. And so the condition of that vehicle is going to be a significant part of the conversation

in terms of how we deal with it.

And if, if the commercial, yeah, I’m sorry, I had a list. If the vehicle is contaminating the streets, or if the vehicle dweller is caught in the act of either dumping trash or sewage in the streets, how is that different than tagging a vehicle?

So I’m going to look to

Nathan, on that issue, because that does get into our stormwater permenant permitting as well. But Nathan, if you were to see somebody dumping gray water, what would you do?

Absolutely. Councilman Martin and mayor and council, one of the I think that the trick here is that yes, we do have specific codes that would govern both illegal dumping and littering and that kind of an offense that we might be able to observe, either in person or by witness accounts, or by surveillance camera footage, or something like that. And that’s its own code. Same with any kind of potential discharge into the storm drain system, those are those those already that already exists in the code that would carry any potential number of fines or summons in the court, depending on the most appropriate, depending on the situation would dictate how that enforcement route would go. But what we’ve learned from experience is that almost never do we have significant evidence to follow through with any of those violations to say, Okay, we’ve got probable cause of proof beyond reasonable doubt, to issue a specific person, because oftentimes, there are more than one person living in an RV to issue a specific person a summons into court or a fine. And so enforcement of those particular codes becomes extremely difficult. And it’s pretty rare to have that be the case.

Yeah, I get a lot of complaints about that. Because no matter how many videos or photos or you know, time lapse photography, no matter what people have got, it’s never seems to be sufficient evidence. So maybe you could edify the public right now by explaining what would be sufficient evidence because I really don’t like it that people are getting away with this.

I agree. I think that, again, depending on the situation, any number of combination of sources of evidence, whether it’s a combination of witness testimony, and really good surveillance camera footage that might capture a person’s face, or lead them to specific identity, we identify that person. And a combination of officer observation, all of that goes into what we would use to issue a sentence.

So I think,

sorry, I couldn’t mute it when I was sneezing,

clear, clear video of the person so they can identify the person’s face without any. I mean, it’s got to be really clear, they’ve got to be able to identify license plate numbers. I know when we were, we were struggling with a couple of alleys. We’ve even tried to place those and it was difficult even in what we use to get enough to find the illegal dumping that was occurring.

And, of course, the the burden of proof is on us to to, to come to that evidence, you know, we have to present all that beyond a reasonable doubt. And that poses a very high standard.

And officer observation, does that mean an OSS officer has to has to observe it no matter how good the other evidence is?

Not necessarily. Of course, if there’s other evidence that is significant that causes that rise to the level of proof beyond reasonable doubt, then absolutely. We’ll use that evidence. But oftentimes, it’s difficult. Oftentimes, we’re not presented with that. And some of the best cases would come. Some of the most definitive cases would come from officer observation, right? physically have to see that person, identify that person and say, Yeah, I watched some commit X, Y, and Z offense. And that’s very rare.

So timeout. So

Mr. Whole, Mr. Whole, can you just please address the punishments that are in the statute? We were talking theory and enforcement in the statute, what is the statute say, is the punishment for this particular ordinance that we’re about to vote on?

So the punishment section hasn’t really been amended from the previous section. It’s just the length of time someone can be parked in the public street and so it is civil punishment is not boom,

so they’re salesmen. Right. So the so let me with this conversation is completely irrelevant, losing my I’m losing my patience. So

The doctor waters, let’s go with you.

Or should we finish?

No, it’s not irrelevant. We stopped talking about whether people were going to be jailed A long time ago, we’re talking about whether people were going to be apprehended for this crime or find or whatever. And

that is not a good buy. point is it’s not a criminal statute, no. criminal statute.

No one settled that a long time ago.

Right. So what I’m saying is that so I mean, the conversations I mean, it’s basically if the vehicle is there, it’s a vehicle. It’s a vehicle civil issue.

And apparently, in the case of dumping, it’s a personal civil issue, and the license plates aren’t good enough. And that’s important.

All right. Let’s keep going, Marsha, but you’re well over 20 minutes, but keep going. I’m done.

All right.

Dr. Water. Real quick. Can we are we it seems to be like we need to bifurcate a couple of issues. What is what are we doing with abandoned vehicles, whether they’re Arby’s or not? And then and then how does the ordinance treat RVs that are not abandoned in which people are living? So if I could sort that, Jeff, I heard you say that over the last, what, 12 to 22 months, there have been 91 vehicles that were abandoned. That had been towed.


Yeah, I heard I heard in an earlier council meeting, a council member, make reference to the city should have no business towing vehicles. If those if the city was not towing vehicles, what would the status of this 91 vehicles be tonight?

Well, they would still be on the street as I suspect, and that’s not including the other 4000 that either got tagged or zoster responded on. So those also might still be in that same location if somebody had not notified the vehicle owner that it needed to be moved.

So I’ve heard that a vehicle that is not licensed is not necessarily abandoned. And I and I understand that, and I would agree with that. Um, but it is it safe to assume that most of abandoned vehicles are not, are not registered or not licensed. I mean, just because it’s not licensed. Doesn’t mean it’s not abandoned. You could have an unlicensed, abandoned vehicle. And then if the city doesn’t tow it, it’s going to sit in some in front of somebody’s house.

For how long?

until somebody tags it moves it on. A lot of times the vehicle has broken down and they’re not doing anything with it. Occasionally, it’s a steel that hasn’t been found yet. So

cannon, I think had some answers to that, as well.

My point is,

I don’t think we did agree. We talked we talked about abandoned vehicles, but i don’t i didn’t i don’t recall agreeing to taking that out of this ordinance. Alright, that section. So from my from my understanding is that if a vehicle is a band, if a vehicle hasn’t moved, and there’s a complaint and it’s sitting in front of somebody’s house, licensed or not, if you can identify that vehicle attached to that home, you might, you’re going to advise somebody or you know that they do have a complaint. That vehicle goes with that home. Is that correct? That’s

That’s correct. We would also probably

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