Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Sept. 14th 2020

Good evening, everybody. I’d now like to call the September 14 2020. Parks and Recreation advisory board to order. Can we please start with the roll call? Mr. Walberg.

I’m here.

Mr. Jeff Allen Bowden. Here.

Mr. Manuel Gangwon.

Miss Paige Lewis? Here.

Mr. Gan Olsen?


Mr. Robert put him

there. Dan Olson said he’s camping right now.

Thank you.

Miss gotcha. Stokely is not here. And Mr. Aaron Rodriguez council liaison. Okay.

Thank you. quorum. We do have a quorum. So meetings are being held remotely due to the governor’s safer at home order. Anyone wishing to provide public comment during public invited to be heard us watch the livestream at the meeting for instructions. When the calling information is displayed on the screen, please call the number displayed. Enter the meeting ID. And when asked for your participant ID press pound, callers will hear confirmation they have entered the meeting and be told how many people are already participating in the meeting staff and council included. collars are placed on hold and muted until they’re called by the last three digits of their phone number, at which time they’ll be unmuted and invited to speak. Please remember to mute the live stream when you’re called upon to speak. Comments are limited to three minutes per person. And each speaker will be asked to state their name and address for the record prior to proceeding with their comments. Okay, I’d now like to move to approval of the agenda. And before we do that, I believe David has an amendment to the agenda.

I move we approve the agenda.

I think we need to hear from David first and then we can go there I think stop.

Yes, um, I just like to move that we removed the item on the NewBee conservation easement. And we have moved that to next month so that we can, tentatively appropriately as a public hearing next month.

Great. Thanks, David. Do you know do we need to vote on that? Or is that? That’s prerogative to remove an agenda item.

I think is is I think just as private to pull that

and that will be approved if you when the agenda is approved, approve it with the modification or David’s change.

Okay, thank you. I’d like to have a motion to approve the agenda as amended by David.

I think motion to approve the agenda, as amended.

Great. Thank you. Do we have a second?

A second? Okay.

All in favor.

Great. Thank you. We have approved the amended agenda. And now I’d like to move on to last week’s minutes. Does anyone have any changes to the minutes before we move to approve them? there any edit?

I found minor typos in it. Do we actually care? I don’t know if it matters if there’s a spelling mistake or small typo does that. Is that true?

Ah Veronica,

can you tell us whether you want to know that or not? Or if you know I think if you Jeff if you’ve identified those we should make those corrections.

Yes. We appreciate you letting us know. Okay,

then I need a second on. Can I continue?

Yes, please. on page three Oasis’s I believe spelt wrong unless the plural of a waste this is actually o a s s which I didn’t know it was if that’s the case, I don’t think it is.

I don’t know I’m just asking about the way it’s spelled at the very bottom of a witness of that page. Parks and Rec board page three.

It should be is that’s what I thought I

looked for a plural version of that and I couldn’t find one so i think i think it’s just I guess

I did mark it up but actually I don’t think I ever found that whatever else I found it didn’t think it was big enough of a deal to say so that’s it.

Well I’m page for Macintosh should be spelled correctly. Okay, for Macintosh, like Macintosh or Macintosh like is not spelled correctly.

I think you just take out the key. I will correct that.

Any other comments? On the previous meeting minute.

Right, can I get a motion to approve them as amended?

I move we approve the minutes as amended.

Hey, it’s a second

isec to that.

Right. All in favor? Aye.

Okay, previous meeting minutes are approved. So We’ll now move to our first public invited to be heard. For an up and up, open up the public invited to be heard the information will be displayed on the screen for those feelings from home. please dial 1-888-788-0099, which is a toll free number. And when prompted, enter the meeting id 87937810859. So we’ll now take a five minute break to allow the public to call in. counsel may turn off the video if you’d like during this time.

All right, those of you who have called into the meeting, I’ve let you into the meeting and we are going to wait here another couple minutes to see if we have any callers in and out What will happen is I will ask you to unmute yourself. And we ask that you use your live stream. So if you’re listening to this on YouTube or wherever you’re listening to it, if you can turn the volume down on that, otherwise, you’re going to hear an echo on your phone when it’s your time to talk. We still have about another minute or so, before I take down the slide. And then I will ask you to unmute yourself by calling up the last three digits of your phone number.

All right, Vice Chair, it’s been about five minutes if you’re okay with us proceeding.

Yes, please go ahead.

All right caller ending in 563. I’m going to ask you to unmute yourself. You could please state your name and address for the record.

Hello there.

Can you hear me? We can hear you? You can? Yes.

Okay, great. My name is Leo Wilson. Valentine. I am calling. I apologize. I missed the first bit of the meeting. So I don’t know if this is without introduction. But I’m calling in regards to naming the beach at Union Fred’s beach. At Wilson with my dad. He was also the mayor and a city councilman for a long time. And I just I wrote up a few comments. So let me read when I think of the beach at Union I think of my dad sitting on a picnic bench with his raggedy old shorts and sandals waiting for the wind. We talk about Happy Places a lot these days. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that the beach at Union was my dad’s happy place. Another thing I can say with absolute certainty is it my dad was the driving force behind what union reservoir is today. My family has been going to Union reservoir since the late 80s when it required a membership. Dad had to learn had learned to windsurf on various other lakes in the area. And he was quite possibly the first person to windsurf at Union. When he became mayor he was passionate about making union a weightless Lake so that he and other wind surfers would have a safe place to pursue their sport. In the years since in the years since union became a part of the city of Longmont. He spent a huge amount of time out there windsurfing, sailing, kayaking, swimming and more. He built himself a rowing shell some time ago and rode that thing around the lake at least 100 times. right around the time he got tired of rowing, he heard about the crazy new fad in California stand up paddling. He repurposed one of his old windsurfers built himself a stand up paddle and set out on the lake becoming quite possibly the first person ever to stand up paddle on union. People thought he was crazy. I’m sure that if dementia hadn’t got a toll on my dad, he’d still be at Union these days pioneering some new sport, reviving an old one or just having a good time waiting for the wind. Please approve the resolution in honor of my father’s service to the city of Longmont and his love for union reservoir.

Thank you.

Thanks very much for joining us.

He can move to the next caller.

Okay, this is our next and

final caller

caller ending in 208. I’m going to ask you to unmute yourself if you could please state your name and address for the record.

The caller is still muted.

Yeah, I’m asking him, him or her to unmute themselves. Oh, we’re good. Yep, we can hear you. Thank you. Okay.

Gordon Figueroa. 639 Falcons drive, Board Chair and members. Thank you for serving on this valuable advisory board parks and open space and trails are some of the community’s most valuable assets when it comes to the quality of life we all enjoy. I appreciate the opportunity to address you tonight. My main focus is on the proposal to designate Fred beach at Union reservoir. I believe this designation is appropriate to honor Fred’s Wilson’s 13 years of dedicated service to the community as mayor and city council member. Fred was mayor in 1993 when I was selected to be city manager in my 30 plus years serving in public in three different cities, I found Fred to be one of the best elected officials I ever worked with. After he left the city council. We developed a close friendship and enjoy growing our skulls that union reservoir. Fred was the city’s best Ambassador when it has the reservoir. He helped many novices become better at windsurfing, paddleboarding, rowing and canoeing. The beach influences classroom, Fred Wilson was a visionary and a passionate advocate for increasing opportunities for all members of the long walk community. One of his early visions were for the city to acquire the surface rights at Union reservoir so that all Longmont residents could have equal access for recreation. Before the city gained control of the surface, right, only members of the private yacht club had access. And of course, this meant most Longmont residents were excluded. In my opinion, for its second great vision for our city involve what most of you know today as next like the fastest internet connection in the country. When the city first month its efforts to provide the community with high speed communication infrastructure through a prybar optic backbone. Fred was one who saw the opportunity and supported the efforts through his many interests through its many iterations. Finally, Fred recognized the value that sandstone ranch could have for our community supported that effort as resident in the city council member. These are just a few of the reasons why I believe Fred Wilson deserves the recognition for his many contributions to our community by having the proposed signs placed at Fred’s beach at Union red score. And since I have a few seconds left, although your first agenda item was removed from the meeting tonight, I support the conservation easement for the new week property. And I think that’s a way of protecting our open space in the long run. Thank you very much.

Thanks so much. Thanks for joining us.

I just want to thank both of our speakers, because I was lucky enough to know Fred and Fred’s beach would be the greatest honor. And I really appreciate Gordon and Fred’s daughter for calling in. It was really, really wonderful to hear what you had to say.

Thank you.

Any other comments before in or do we have any other callers? I don’t see any more?

No, we just have the two callers.

Okay. With that, then we’ll close. The public invited to be heard. Rob, did you want to just make a comment?

Yes, I was gonna say that I have no objection to being named that it’s certainly better than sandy beach. You know, and he certainly deserves some recognition. So

great. Well, you’ll have an opportunity to do that very shortly when it comes up on the agenda. So I think Well, with that we’ll close public invited to be heard and those two old business.

Were in the business. We should we are now ready for six be?

Great. Okay. We’ll move to new business. And as six eight was removed from the agenda, we’ll go to six weeks.

I’m not sure who’s thinking about that. David, is that Yep.

Yeah, this is David. And again, I just like to put some of the board members have said I think Gordon and Fred’s daughter degree daughter did a great job of they talk about why this should be named free speech. But I decided to take a couple minutes kind of talk about why it ended up and proud. We had the family and Gordon approach parkson Natural Resources staff to say could we do something for a memorial at Fred out of the beach and, you know, we do Memorial bricks, we do benches, and that’s within the realm of what we istat can do. But you know, the idea of naming a beach felt like it was at a level that needed I think that only just the procedural process, but the recognition for Fred to go through the pre processing council process for resolution. So that’s the direction we decided to take since prab, is responsible for Navy parts. Even this is a full Park, we thought it bring it to this board for your consideration, and your vote would be an important piece of this. So as you’ve seen here, I think in the document provided for you that forever is it, you know, I think, critical in making this a public beach and I managed that area now know how important that is to the public. So throughout the Coronavirus, knowing how much people needed to get outside needed to have these public spaces. I think it’s a great place. I’ve seen how much the public loves it. And I think this is a great recommendation the staff supports as well as the community.

Great, thanks, David. Yes,

Jeff. I guess I just wanted to clarify like in the in the new business, I’m only looking at the agenda it says name it an honor for Mayor Fred Wilson. But then people call them call it Fred speech. Are we gonna call Fred Wilson speech? What’s the actual proposal? Oh, could we um, actually, there’s a sign that the family and friends have actually offered to pay for so I can bring that up if you can. Now I’m remembering the other thing that it didn’t work in the in the packet actually was the attachments in the packet.

So that’s, that’s why I didn’t know this.

Is that visible? Everyone now so that’s that’s how they’d like it to be yes. And then we will work.

It will be located where?

So this is a piece that I don’t have the exact location, we’ve actually had john Brown, who is the park manager go out with the friends and family of look at look at location. So as you come into the beach swim area, that’s where a be located in that area, so that, you know, users of the beach would be able to see that exact location. I don’t have a map of that. But it was site located by staff. What’s the sign made out of? So that’s a piece that as we put it up here, Kathy crows D brands, while they have looked as well, the friends and family have worked with on rabbit Hill, science and graphics. However, we do have standards that will probably make sure that it meets those specs and standards. So we’ll work the family and friends to make that work within what they’re looking for. But also make sure it meets the standards for this for the city as well. What’s the top hat of the moustache? You know, we didn’t really push back on that this is all designed by the individuals. You heard calling this the this evening and it has significance. I’m sure as we move forward, they’ll be able to provide some more information on that.

Can you tell us David, what is the process that you need from us? Do you need a formal resolution? Or

I would just I think what I’d be looking for would be a vote to say that we could take this forward to council with a recommendation from staff and well whatever the vote that prab would have that we would take perhaps vote plus staff recommendation to Council and ask for a formal resolution. And so we would be asking for resolution from Council.

And do you anticipate that there would be any significant public opposition to this?

No, not at all.

My only comment is

my head

is that

when I see signs like that places, I actually wish there was a little more explanation like I wish because I appreciate signage, when I go places and something is dedicated to someone. I wish it was a little more on there about, you know, he was instrumental in, you know, bringing union to the public, or at least maybe a blurb under union reservoir on their website would maybe be an appropriate place to just throw that out there.

I would just say that i would i would agree. And again, I think at this point is we’re bringing this forward to get support from staff from the boards. That was our first goal and I do think that we would like to have staff work with the family but respect their intent because I would agree and I think if you go to Ralph price reservoir and same same things that there we have other city buildings, entities properties named after people, you get a little bit more information, and I’m sure to the the friends and family This means a lot but for the person that didn’t know Fred, I think having that there would be something we we could probably incorporate in a way that we meet their intent but also help those genomes. I think that’s something that we definitely want to work with our staff, with friends and family to make sure we can achieve that.

I had one question

is a great idea to or so Fred.

I just wonder whether Is there any money costume ordering

renaming the user aware.

So as far as

renaming, since it’s not named already, I don’t think it’d be a cost of doing that. I think the you know, websites and stuff could refer to at this point. But I don’t think there’s anything out there that really even identifies there’s gonna be so we can have a renaming piece, we might have a some cost as we go forward as we start referencing the beach would have it as far as beach. The other piece is that at this point, at least, and that’s, again, why taking through this board and through Council and looking for ways we could fund this right now, though, the friends and families that they would pay for it. And I think that’s a great offer, I think them working with the city. But if the city needs to make changes to you know, the quality of sign the build of the signs and make sure it meets our standards and prices go up, I would hope that the city would be able to look at budget sources that could help offset that. But right now, the only cost that we really have is the sign itself. And, again, the family is saying that they would pay for that. Thank you.

And just to clarify, it’s not renaming union method for just naming the slim beach in honor. Correct. Right. Yeah. If there’s no more questions, I would entertain a motion with regard to recommending this naming to city council.

I make a motion we accept this name for Fred’s beach.

As stated, to go to the city council.

Right. Up. Did you have a second?

I second.

okay to not sure. Veronica, do you want to just repeat the motion for us and then we can vote.

That makes a motion to to accept the name change our union beach to Fred’s beach

and recommends that stuff. Move that? tech share that with City Council? Correct? Yes, correct.

Okay, great. All those in favor?

Anybody opposed?

Great Motion passes.

Okay, so our next agenda item is items from staff. Are

there any items from staff that we want to cover?

I have something that I like to talk about or share. Great So, so late last week, Paige had said, David and I an email about the 2021 budget process, and wanted to just share the COVID impact that recreation is currently experiencing. So recreation is required to file follow a financial policy set by city council that requires us to recover 80% of the cost that we spend in a year that excludes capital items over $5,000 excludes free community events like rhythm on the river and Longmont lights, excludes our work with field maintenance and sandstone ranch. So based on on that information, we are suffering some pretty reduced revenue during 21. And right now, I’d estimate that we’re going to be somewhere between 40 and 50% of what our normal normal revenue is. That normal revenue is right over four and a half million dollars that we’re expected to bring in. And this year, we will bring in less than 200 million or $2 million. We believe that there’s two issues that we have found that is it that helps with that negative revenue, base directly to COVID. The first item is the state and county guidelines on how many people can use our facilities at any one time. For example, at the Rec Center, we can only have up to 100 people there at one time. And it’s based on a 25% of your normal capacity, or 50 whichever is is Less. And that’s based on rooms that have four walls and a door. So we’ve broken the pool into one room of 50. And then the gymnasium, the track area, and the workout area is another 50. And we are averaging with those reduced pasties, currently about 35% of our capacity. So then the set so the second item is that we found that people are more comfortable working, outdoor going to outdoor facilities and not quite as comfortable going indoors. Just to give you an example of the impact is, before COVID hit, we were averaging about 1200 people a day at the Rec Center. Right now, it excuse me, it’s around 229 people a day. So that that number, you can see how quickly that can impact your or our revenue expectations. So staff was asked to create an estimate of where we thought we would be in 2021, we believe we’re going to be at around 25% of our normal revenue of the 4.5 million, which means that we will, we will be short $1,127,000 rounded. So with that reduction, cost recovery, the cost recovery policy requires us to reduce our budget by that much. So staff made a proposal that we would cut 25% of all of our programming areas, excluding regular staff in the matching benefits that go with that. And we would reduce 30% of the hours for our temporary employees. This is going to require many of the regular staff to be more front line, working at the front desk serving as lifeguards, and also pool managers, field, field supervisors that sort of thing.

And then finally, one of the things that I would say is, if things get better in 2021, we have a vaccine or the virus happens to go away, we will have the opportunity to as revenues grow to add those dollars back to our budget. staff is going to be going through a process over the next two months to identify what we should continue to offer in 2021. And those items that should be suspended until the time that revenues start increasing. And then we go back to council to appropriate those additional revenues so that we can spend the money and work towards getting back to the four and a half million dollar revenue as estimates our budgeted revenue. wanted to share that that’s been pretty hard news for the staff. It is a major impact that really none of the other departments or divisions have seen within the city. And so we will keep you posted as we move forward with what our recommendations are. And it’s our hope to have a plan by mid November so that we’re ready when the new budget comes into effect in January.

You may have any questions?

Thanks, Jeff, I appreciate you providing us that estimate. I have one question and then I’ll go to the rest. I just wondered how quickly could the council if you come to them with, you know request to appropriate funds back due to increased revenues? How quickly can they act and restore those funds for you to use it. Now,

normally a month or month and a half? Generally, the recreation budget is usually spread out through the year. So if something if revenues start coming in early in the year and let’s say we have the opportunity to do rhythm on the river again, we have the flexibility to move monies to spend and pay for rhythm while we work towards through the appropriation of the additional dollars. So I think it can be done fast and it would have limited impact on delaying programs from starting.

Okay. And then to thank you guys, did you have a question?

No question. I’m hesitant to say it I’ll ask and then you can say that’s like Gotta make any difference. But I guess I’m wondering, are there options for doing more parks and I guess recreation type things that would be outside transition period. Like, I’m just making up stuff like in Roosevelt Park, there’s the covered area, could there be a workout facility move there where you have treadmills outside but offense to protect the equipment or could tools, for example, be open throughout the winter and heater is that just a waste of money. And it’s

that it’d be really hard to keep sunset open, much longer closes on Sunday. And the challenges that once it starts getting colder, people tend to say we’ll go there, but once the cold weather hits it, it’s pretty difficult. And you know, with the, with the weather that we had last week, our temperatures went from 83, down below 77. And you have to have by code, temperatures, at least 77 degrees. And once it starts staying that cold, where it’s in the 30s and lower 40s all the time, we just can’t keep up with the heat. And security wise, I don’t know that it really worked to move all that equipment out to the pavilion location. We are continuing to do fitness classes in the parks. And we’re doing virtual classes, and we’ll continue to do those. But at some point time when the weather, you know gets cold, we really don’t have a lot of options.

Make sense?

of a couple questions. One is is so as if Boulder County Health changes their mandates? Are you able to change quickly? Or do you have to go get city council approval, let’s say for example, they raised the numbers, it can be allowed in the same room type of thing.

No, we do not have to go back to Council for that. And one of the things that could happen is if the numbers would go down COVID numbers number of cases, we can move to what is called protect our neighbors. Based on the preliminary work our information we’ve seen, that bumps our numbers from 25% to 50%, and starts having a pretty big impact on the numbers of people that can be in our buildings. The challenge still is Do people feel comfortable because right now, if you come into our facilities, you have to wear a mask when you’re working out, excluding swimming, you have to wear your mask to the point where you’re ready to get in the water. You can go in and swim without it, but you have to put your mask back on right away. So we just are in the last week of a survey that we’re doing of of Longmont residents to see their how they feel about coming back indoors. And at the October meeting, I’ll be able to present that information to kind of help us direct direct us on where we need to really be spending our time. By far in at Centennial pool and at the Rec Center. aquatics is by far the busiest of all of our locations.

So that was one of my questions. So when you said you could have 50 in the rec centers pool area. But like that is that’s just for like open swim because the fact that we can only have six at a time and the you know, in the rap lanes, could that not be changed to two at a time in each lane or

know the county. So originally, we were allowing multiple people in the lane. About two weeks ago the county came back with a new guidance that says if it’s lapse swimming not in a an organized program that you could only have one person in a lane. So at the Rec Center, if you have all six lanes that would allow 44 people to be in the hot tub and leisure pool. Okay.


my next comment is, and I’m not quite sure I understood it. You said you know if things change, you could possibly bring things back like rhythm on the river and so on. Is that the kind of questions you’re asking in the survey like to me, I would postpone events like that and use that money for no more recreational things. I’m just curious about why just

use that as an example because that’s probably one of the things that will be the first to be suspended. Until we have large numbers of people. There’s just no way we can do any types of events. The the questionnaire or the survey was really more generic about what is your opinion about working out indoors. Here are the Types of cleaning things that we’re doing, you have other things that you would recommend. What what classes would you be willing to have you are other family members attend that sort of thing. It was really not about those large events, because like I said, we can’t have those numbers together. Yeah.

And one other comment I will make, because I do use the pool reservation system weekly. Is there a possibility that it could be people could cancel online when they’re not going to be able to make it because that’s one feature. That I think is, firstly, think is a bit of a problem, because when I do go swim laps, sometimes the lanes are full, but sometimes there’s like three people there is they haven’t shown up? I mean, they’ve made a reservation. Is that something that could happen? Is that just do?

I believe they can do it that way? I think generally with I think you have to do a 12 hours before Well, many people are not doing that at all. They’re they’re just not showing, especially if they’re passholders. Generally the people that call are the ones that are playing paying the daily rate.

No, you cannot cancel online, even 12 hours before. Okay. I was told that to and I’ve investigated that quote by asking quite a few people. And the answer is no, you cannot. So I just think that that’s something that would be a feature that would be I think, helpful.

Yeah, there we can make that kind of modification. It’s a out of the box system.


difficult at best for some people.

Overall, I think it’s working great. Just so you know, I mean, I think it’s great, and it’s very much appreciated.

I was just gonna ask if you have any idea yet, what might be the status for the skating rink in the hockey program. So start outside,

we should have a decision made within the next two weeks of whether we will open or not. Financially, it’s going to be a challenge, because we can only have 25 people on the ice in the lace up area, and in the building at one time. So 25 total. And the challenge with that is as people are leaving the lace up area in the building are not large enough to handle 25 people. So the county’s responses, you can’t go above what you can handle off the ice. So we’re working on the financial side of that. And we’ll be presenting to our director and the city manager in the next couple weeks.

Other questions?

Okay, great. So if nothing else, Thanks, Jeff, for bringing that information. And sorry, we’re in this condition. Hopefully, for all of our sake. Yeah, things will get better sooner than later.

Thank you.

Okay, the next agenda item is items. Well, are there other items from staff first?

Okay, hearing none, are there any items from the board?

Maybe a very short meeting. Done.

I volunteered for with Danielle, the Veen to monitor Macintosh like three, Sunday, three Saturday mornings actually. And that is a I think it’s a it’s a disaster waiting to happen. By noon there were 95 water, things on the lake canoes, canoes, kayaks, paddleboards all add up the children there many were riding on the paddle boards or in the canoes and so on. only about half of them had life jackets on what was peculiar about the thing is all the dogs had life jackets. But in any case it up. There are people swimming, they would paddle out the middle of McIntosh lake and then jump in the water and swim. And, you know, we don’t have a rescue craft on that like in case somebody has to get out there. And we certainly don’t have lifeguards or we don’t have anything and Have a feeling, especially on the weekends on warm summer days, it’s kind of out of control. We don’t have any. There’s a lot of dangers or hazards, and not a lot of control. I don’t know that signs would would fix it. But it wouldn’t hurt. But it is being used a great deal because people can’t get into union. And almost half the people I interviewed were from more than 10 to 30 miles from long line. That’s all I have to say. It’s just an interesting. I don’t know what the rest of the survey is only know about my Saturday mornings. But it seems to me that there’s a hazard there. And on Parks and Rec, we should consider addressing that at some point. David?

Yeah, I just want to say, one, thanks for volunteering. I know you volunteer a lot, Rob. And this is a project that we really were getting called out to like Macintosh quite a bit because of masking and social distancing. And really, I think that was a result of homeless users out there. And just a change in use for the neighbors. I can imagine if you lived out there, what your backyard has turned into. As I went out there and looked at things though, what I saw is a little different than people had a different lens with the the, the neighbors there. And I would say exactly what Rob said, My biggest concern was the number of people on the water, which wasn’t strictly the number, but the number of people who did not have personal floatation devices, people or there was kids, if it was adults, it doesn’t matter if you’re a longtime canoe or kayaker, you fall, you hit your head. And it’s we don’t have anything out there to rescue people. So that was the first piece. And the second piece was the swimming which is not allowed there. Again, no lifeguards, and we don’t test that water, the state requires that if we have a beach, we have to have water quality testing. Since we don’t have a beach, we don’t do that. And we know what’s upstream from that with cattle and agriculture, and the slope, the load depth of that water that it gets warm pretty quickly. So we definitely have some concerns about the water quality there that we’re just unaware of at this time. So what I want thank you for being out there volunteering to do so proud no as it is probably one of my biggest concerns is how we go forward with with managing that body of water. Because as I’ve told counsel is not going to go back to the way it was. We talked about you know, Jeff talked about things going back to normal. If there’s a vaccine or if there’s, you know, the virus runs its course, for those people have found Macintosh, there is no entry fee like there is at Union, we don’t have a controlled entry point. So we can’t just limit the number of people. So I think we have to start figuring out how we manage that property. responsibility for the users for the wildlife and for the neighbors. big topic tonight. But thanks for bringing it up. And Danielle is starting to pull all that information together and should be able to provide probably a better well rounded report. Once she pulls that information together.

There was that there were a lot of cars that the parking lot I was at Fleming Park, which is not on on shore road or something. And the day I was there, the days I was there Saturday and Sunday were particularly crowded. It’s an interesting phenomenon. But a lot of cars were parked on Lake Shore Drive or whatever it’s called in the bike lane, all the way down because the parking lot was too small. I don’t know what the answer is there other than maybe just saying don’t don’t quiet the lake. I mean, it’s drinking water or whatever. But I do think that it has to be thought you have to think about how it’s being used and how it’s sort of out of control of the city. In some ways. It’s all people who just show up from other places like nyuad and lions and some people even from places like

in Pennsylvania.

Yeah, cuz they couldn’t go any late. They were up at McIntosh.

Again, you know, when Danielle would have her survey results or when there might be more to report about potential action.

So since she’s not here to say no, I would say we could probably have something by next meeting for you.

That’d be a great thing.

And again, I compare this to the parking piece is something that we get called out a lot and again, this is a challenge for people who live in areas or used to be parked in front of their house and that parking spots gone. It’s very inconvenient for those homeowners. We have I have been paying or the city’s been paying. We’re going to work it out but just at our MP great. We’ve had extra duty officers out there every weekend. Until Labor Day, and there has not been a whole lot of illegal parking. It’s just a lot of parking. So we’ve been watching that as well. So we’re trying to wash the public health issues from the masking, distancing, swimming, boarding, and parking. And it’s, it’s just gonna be a lot of challenges. I think it’s something that we may want to look as a board on what the recommendations were for the master planet, those are still obtainable objectives, and what we want to do

one of the, one of the things I noticed was in the morning, the people using the park, not on the water, now we’re talking about the people on the sidewalks. And you know, we’re, we’re senior citizens, until about 10 o’clock. From then on until two or three in the afternoon, it’s all young people, then about four or five, it senior citizens again, it’s a peculiar, you know, it’s an interesting phenomenon in any case, but the senior citizens weren’t swimming, they weren’t doing any water sports or anything, they were walking or walking their dogs or whatever.

So when you went when he went to city council, David, did they direct you to have surveying done or what, what was what were they? Did they give a direction? Or?

No, we didn’t. It was really me trying to I think one of the challenges we have is tried what my goal was in the survey was trying to give counsel a broader perspective, what’s happening there, because it’s, it’s not to diminish the calls I get, but the calls are coming from people are being directly impacted by the increase use. So if that’s the only information you’re getting, it’s hard one staff or PD shows them, it says, Well, you know, really isn’t as bad as that. So what does it really look like? So I was trying to give a little bit more objective information to counsel from people like Rob and other volunteers that don’t have is not staff to saying, you know, it’s fine. And it’s not the neighbors saying it’s horrible. So it really, for me was trying to get a little better look at what was really happening out there throughout the day, different times of the day. And as Rob mentioned, you know, we’re doing morning surveys afternoon, evening and weekend. So those were my real goal, and I guess it was for Council, but also for me is you know, trying to manage that facility and and hopefully for proud in this body too. As we go forward. The information you typically get from people that are complaining, this is hopefully a little bit broader, broader view of what’s happening out there.

I apologize.

Yeah, and I have to agree with Rob and I know everyone agrees it would be very tragic for something to happen. And then, of course, have be very reactive. Because in the past things like that have happened and ditches and so on, where some child has drowned and I would I know you want to be we all want to be proactive. That is the signage really is there a lot of scientists there’s no swimming or is it I don’t go over there often enough to really remember

talking to the people I was interviewing people to In addition, other things, they all knew there was no swimming and McIntosh Lake, they knew that there wasn’t one person didn’t know it. And yet there they were out there swimming, you know. So I don’t, I don’t know if assigned will solve the problem, particularly because of people it was a hot day now it was 90, you know, I can understand I’m jumping in the water going for a swim, but I’m just saying that they knew that it was drinking water. And they still went swimming, so and the bathroom, the outhouse or whatever seemed adequate. For most of the people were in and out, they came, they went paddleboard, they brought their paddle board have gotten a car and left it wasn’t like they spent any time in the park.

And I think those those exactly the fuse innovation work is it’s easy for me as I will say someone’s been doing this a long time, you can get jaded and say science just won’t do it. Because we have gone out there. We’ve had volunteers putting up additional signs and they’re all like folders, a sign right there that says it, we’re putting another sign up right next to it. That’s going to get blown down. So there was a little bit of you know, I think the staff sign side that we have sufficient signage. And this just kind of helps reaffirm that, but I do think when you have people from other areas and stuff, providing people with enough information to help them do the right thing and make the right decision is something I’d rather err on the side of doing that. But this is one of the tools and toolbox and again, it’s not going to do it all though.

Jeff, what are the possibilities of altering the parking to influence how the resources used?

So we’ve had our transportation group, look at that and Again, looking at how the streets are designed to have cars parked along the side of the road on both sides and still allow for emergency vehicles and vehicles to get through there. If you were to close down Lakeshore drive, they have moved one block to the west. So the people who have a problem right now, the problem be the people one block over. And when you have a spot what I’m seeing other too, and this is why I think this survey is important. You’re having dad drop the family and the blow up paddleboard and the pop up 10 off right at Lake and then he just circles neighborhood looking for a spot at that spots, one block two blocks or three blocks away, you’re going to continue to have that sort of pressure. So I think it’s going to be a constant challenge. If this if you just close down parking, right up there, there’s push out. And I’m just going to example I’ll give I was someone else’s horrible user this last weekend, I have my first in person race, which is great down at Sloan’s lake. And that poor neighborhood looking at through the lens, I look at it now. You could not get an emergency vehicle through those streets. It was there was just no place that wasn’t packed in that neighborhood out there. So I don’t know how we move forward. I think we have to start looking at creative ways of doing this. But it’s something that I think with people being asked to get outside and do things outdoors and keep distances, these spaces have become very important to people. So I don’t think we want to take them away, but how do we manage them in a way that keeps everybody safe? Okay,

any other items from the board?

Okay, seeing none, we’ll move to the second public invited to be heard. So we’re now going to open up the public invited to be heard. The information will be displayed on the screen for those feelings from home. please dial 18780099 and When prompted, enter the meeting id 87937810859. We’ll now take another five minute break to allow for people to call in

Vice Chair we didn’t have anybody call in for the public invited to be heard

no muted page

automatically needed.

If only council can come back on camera, I’d like to entertain a motion that we move to adjourn the meeting.

So I can’t hear you but I think you’re moving to church.

I make a motion that we adjourn the meeting.

I second.

Okay, all those in favor.

Okay. Great. Thanks, everybody.

Thank you.

Bye bye

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