Planning and Zoning Commission September 16th, 2020

Chair you are be ready to begin.

Okay, great. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the September 16 2020. planning and zoning commission meeting. First item on our agenda is roll call. Jane.

Herman chernykh. Here. Commissioner flag here. Commissioner Goldberg? Yeah. Commissioner hight present. Commissioner Koehler here, Commissioner honor on here. Commissioner polen.

Yeah. Thank you, you have a forum.

Great. Thank you. Um, next is communications. Before we get into that, I want to just read this on anyone wishing to speak during public invited to be heard, which is items four and seven or during any public hearing items, which is agenda item six tonight. We’ll need to watch the livestream of the meeting for instructions about how to call in to provide public comment at the appropriate times. We’ve got up on our screen right now, instructions will be given during the meeting and displayed on the screen when it is time to call in to provide comments. Comments are limited to five minutes per person, and each speaker will be asked to state their name and address for the record prior to proceeding with their comments. Please remember to mute the live stream in New York called upon to speak. In terms of communications, let’s turn to dogbert Chet our planning manager and

Germans for NEC we have nothing to report at this time.

Okay, thank you, Don. Next on our agenda is our first public invited to be heard will display our call in information please. I believe Heather is the master behind the screen here running all the behind the green curtain, shall we say? Um, we’ll have it up on the screen here soon for those viewing from home. You will call 188 87880099 When prompted, enter the meeting id 83838288942. It takes us about five minutes to get everybody pulled into the meeting. So again, call 18780099 and prompted enter 83838 to 88942. And this is for any items which are not on tonight’s agenda. We’ll take a five minute break to allow the process work. Thanks

Chairman going to stop sharing my screen and give just a second for the live stream to catch up here.

Thank you, Heather.

You have one color in the waiting room inside just admitted them to the meeting. Caller number five to nine. I’m going to unmute you in just a moment if you would please state your name and address for the record and you will have five minutes to speak.

And just for clarification, this is for items that are not on the agenda tonight. So anything that’s not on the agenda, so not about this You Creek.

And then when also one other note also for the collar if you would please make sure that your live stream is muted so that we don’t get feedback in the call.

Hello. I’m sorry, did I miss the instructions on what we were said to unmute my phone and so I’ve unmuted my phone.

Okay, great. So we have if you would please state your name and address for the record and then you’ll have five minutes to speak.

Steven Williams, I live at 710 planned on Drive. This is for the those that you Creek on the agenda. I just had a question for

Mr. Williams. I’m just want to clarify that this particular call in time is for items that are not on the agenda tonight.

I’m sorry, I heard that I didn’t hear the first part of that where you said it was for the items not on the agenda. Okay, then I will, then I don’t know why it asked me.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much.

Heather, did we have anybody else? I think Mr. Williams was the only one.

He was the only one at this time. Yes, sir.

Okay. So we will close the public invited to be heard. And next on our agenda is approval of our minutes from August 26 2020. Do we have any discussion amongst the commission about the minutes? Seeing none, do we have a motion to approve? Commissioner Goldberg?

Yeah, thanks, Chairman. I’d like to move through the National the August 26. Meeting.

Okay, Commissioner polen.

I’ll second I will second that.

Okay. So we have a motion to approve in a second. All those in favor of approval of the minutes say Aye. Raise your hand aye. I any abstained or Commissioner color abstains any nose I forgot to ask for nose. Okay, so Jane that passes six in favor zero nose and one abstention from Commissioner Koehler. The minutes are approved. I also want to comment, Jane, I think those were the longest minutes we’ve we’ve had. So good job I would agree. Um, okay, we will open up on item six on our agenda which is villas that you Creek right away vacation PCR 2020 dash seven, associate planner Zach blazic we’ll start the presentation.

Good evening, everyone. Can you hear me?

All right, and we got the presentation up.

Fantastic. Okay, hello, everybody. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Zack blazic. I’m an associate planner here with the city. This is my planning and zoning commission. Did you so I’m here this evening to present the WLC ucrete vacationer, bridleway application, the outcome of which will be a recommendation from you all have a decision to the city council, we can go to the next slide. I’d like to start by introducing Doug Gossett who is with us from public works Chris isn’t with us. But if you have any engineering questions we have Doug with us can go next slide. So right away vacation is a major application for development. These often go straight to the city council for decision, but the code does provide the opportunity for staffers to refer them to planning and zoning for a recommendation. And that’s what brings us here this evening. Next slide. So the villas that ucrete condominium subdivision is located at 1703 Whitehall drive at the northwest corner of 17th Avenue and P Street. Whitehall drive is a platted public street within the subdivision and residents take access from pace up there in the northwest corner. You go to the next slide. Within this existing right of way on my hall drive there are several parking spaces on three separate elevated concrete paths which we can see in the image here. There’s also existing landscaping in the right of way and access to resident mailboxes. Next slide please. So the owner representation or owner representative of the property, which is the ability to Creek Hoa has petitioned the city of Longmont to vacate a portion of the west side of the planet Whitehall drive where that parking and landscaping is located. Specifically the HOA would like the city to vacate 3675 square feet of right of way where the parking landscaping is located. And additional easement replace the existing right of way in place, which the city will then still have permission to access just in case anything is necessary there for curb improvements or something like that along into the right away. The applicant is here to speak more to this request. But in summary, what it will do is allow the HOA to manage the existing parking and landscaping they’re currently located within the right of way as it currently is on the west side. It’ll additionally place the burden of regular maintenance things like snow management striping in the parking area asphalt management landscaping entirely on the homeowners association. Next slide please. DRC staff reviewed this proposal against the criteria listed here and found the vacation request in compliance with the Longmont municipal code and review criteria. However, we did opt to refer the application to this hearing for recommendation after receiving some neighborhood input during the review process specific to the following criteria which is 15.0 2.055 seen, the public benefits and utility of the vacation request outweigh any adverse impacts of the vacation. At the time of the application. Some residents and neighbors raised concerns that public parking in the complex become worth more limited. As a result of the vacation, you know, which may require some to park in the adjacent neighborhood or find other solutions for their parking.

Next slide, please.

So this is a summary of the neighborhood input process. A neighborhood meeting is not required for a vacation of right away despite the fact that it’s a major application. And again, the director may waive planning and zoning review if there are no unresolved issues, but through the neighborhood input process, we determined that a public hearing and recommendation from the commission may be beneficial. In the event that again, there was no neighborhood meeting. And comments with objections were presented in the first round of notification. We’ll have more on that in a moment. This hearing just gives residents the opportunity to provide input and gives the commissioners the opportunity to ask the applicant Any questions before making a recommendation. You can go to the next slide. So this is a summary of the notice procedure and the neighborhood. input. When this application was presented in early March, I received nine phone calls and one email which was included in your packet they were all in opposition to the application. In summary, their concerns were mostly to do with Hoa regulation on the parking spaces, decreasing parking availability or requiring people to find other solutions for their parking. When I sent the notice for this hearing, I received two comments. One was a call and one was an email both were just requests for information with no further comment. We can go to the next slide.

The Commission has three options.

We can recommend city council approve the ordinance find the vacation and compliance recommend city council approve the ordinance with conditions or recommend city council deny the ordinance. Next slide please. staff does recommend that the planning zoning commission recommended approval of the vacations evening city council based on the application meeting the criteria. Next slide. That’s all for my presentation. And the next step will be to have applicant speak and we can take any questions.

All right, let’s, uh, let’s roll right into the applicants presentation, please.

Thank you, Zach. Thank you.

So Heather, you’re going to want to give them the opportunity to unmute themselves.

So this is Joe Taylor. I’m the HOA community managers act. First of all, it was a great presentation. Sound like he’s been doing that 100 times. So great job there and thank you very much for this whole process. I personally been involved with the bills that you Creek what let me start my video here. I personally have been involved with the bills that you Creek since January of 2018. When the association was built back in the early 2000s, it was always the assumption that these parking spaces on Whitehall drive were part of the association, even to the point where, over the last 20 or so years, we’ve actually been maintaining the trees and the grass in those areas on an ongoing basis. Back in 2015, it was brought to my attention at that time, that for whatever reason, it was brought up that that the HOA did not own those parking spaces. And at that time, the attorney that is no longer practicing and was involved was working with Eva with as well as with the board members. And we had an email from Eva who was, I believe, worked at the planning department at that time. That said, know that the association does almost parking spaces. That indeed was at that time. confirmed with the association attorney. And so life went on. About a year and a half ago at this time, I got a call from somebody to sit in Longmont and asking questions about it again. And I said, No, those are the association parking spaces. And they said, well, they’re not showing a recording. I produced the email from Eva and the attorneys at that time that went back and forth and said, yes, those are the association.

parking spaces, well,

evidently, it never got properly recorded at that time back in 2015. And the ball just got dropped again. Um, you know, a year and a half ago, which was when we started looking say, Okay, what do we need to do to finalize this process and then that’s when we got involved with with Zach and had the applique or the pointment with the pre application team. They let us know and the board Know what needed to be done as far as the surveys and all that, which we did over the over the last year. So I mean, we’ve done the association still is under the understanding that it does belong to them. So at this point, we’re just, I guess, trying to make everything official for lack of better

terms. Just some

quick bullet points here. If, if the fit is approved, the real vacation will not have any impact to the city. The real vacation will have no impact on the adjoining neighborhoods is there’s a continuous perimeter fence that defines the boundary of the HOA from other properties and neighborhoods. The real vacation is contained within this perimeter fence due to the limited parking and Hoa with the with those parking spaces that would allow 18 common area parking spaces for nine units. If we don’t have those, then we’re going to be only have seven guest parking spaces. For the 90 units. Again, hoa has already been maintaining the area for the past 20 years, including the grounds, the parking spaces, the plants, trees, watering, etc. The Hoa will grant an easement on all real property vacated by city to the HOA. And again, there will be no financial impact at any part as a result of the road vacations. So with all that said and done, you know, the the bills that you Creek Board of Directors is asking for approval to kind of make official what we thought was official for the last 20 years. I would like to if you can unmute Nancy Clayton, the board president and she has any comments to what I just add. I would appreciate

it when you unmuted

I don’t have any further comments except that I have lived here 16 years and was told when we bought that we could not Park overnight because of the limited number of spaces, and we do have tandem garages so we have room for three cars, two in the garage and one in the driveway. Um, I just think that I would appreciate if the city would give us this in filing the record straight so that we know that we do have these parking places.

Mr. Taylor’s is that conclusion of your presentation?

Yes, yes. I have nothing further. I have. Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Mr. Taylor. Um, so um, do we have any questions from the commission that just clarify things right now Commissioner high.

Horse I need to get something clarified. I’m confused how many units are in the HOA

now idea at misunderstood?

Taylor. How many total units

99 zero units? And how many? With the parking spaces that were asking to be finalized there there would be 18 parking spaces guest parking spaces.

Thank you.

That’s it. Okay. Anybody else with questions at this time? Seeing none, let’s uh, let’s go ahead and open the public hearing part of this session. So, we already have Mr. Williams on the line, but we need to make sure whether there are any other members of the public who would like to call in on this. So we’ll put our slide up on the screen showing the phone number please call 188878880099 When prompted, enter them Id 83838288942 so it’s 18780099 and then enter the meeting ID 83838288942 takes about five minutes First, make sure we’ve got everybody pulled in. So we’ll take a five minute break. Thanks

cherish your neck we have about 30 more seconds. So I’m going to go ahead and stop sharing my screen if the commissioners can come back on does not look like we have any additional callers at this time beyond our guests who called in earlier.

Okay, great. Thank you. So we’ll get started again, Mr. Williams, phone number ending five to nine. Please go ahead and unmute your phone. Give us your name and address for the record. And we’ll hear from you for up to five minutes.

My address is 710 Claire and on Dr. Eileen live in Spring Valley at you Creek, which is right on the other side of the villas. And I just had a question for the petitioners of, you know, what’s the history of those parking spots and the overnight parking and towing, I’ve noticed quite a few cars that park right at the boundary of our neighborhoods, at least one or two I know to be residents of Spring Valley, but I know notice several others are potentially residents of the villas. And is there any suggestion that by vacating the row, you’ll be able to tell people that live that park there overnight, and we’ll start seeing increased traffic in Spring Valley as people park here to walk over to the villas?

So Mr. Williams, just so you know, we don’t really go through a q&a sort of period. During during your comments, we’re making note of all of your comments. And we’ll make sure that we try to get answers to your questions. Anything else you’d like to raise any other issues?

That’s the only issue for us. Zack explained all the other things I was the email or asking questions today. So that’s it. Thank you very much for for your time.

Okay, thank you, Mr. Rollins.

All right. So we will close the public hearing part of this item and return to discussion amongst the commission. We are I’m a little confused myself on as to exactly what’s going on and maybe Zack, you can help explain this for me. Can you give us some history on as Mr. Taylor and Mr. Williams referred to? exactly what’s happened with with these Perkins spaces why they were not recorded. I mean, I’m just I’m confused as to just what the heck’s happening here.

Can you guys see me and hear me? Okay.

It looks like my camera might be frozen,

which is great.

So I think this would be a good opportunity for Joe to chime in as well. As far as the history on that parking. My understanding is that the parking spaces were initially signed as private parking and they were signed us as such in the public right of way, that’s kind of what brought about this application in the first place.

But I’ll let Joe speak about that.

No, I think you’re on the right track there, Zack. Again, since we’ve been maintaining them over the last 20 years, we always thought it was ours. We had the two cases where it was brought up that they might not be ours, and again with the email of Eva and our attorneys in 2014, in 2015, and coming to the conclusion, yes, they are the association properties. The ball was dropped again until spring of last year when it came up again. And we’re like, No, we’ve got these emails between our attorneys and Eva, the city along on planning, they are ours, and then that’s when they find out Well, it was never recorded that way. And then we’re like, Okay, what do we need to do that and that’s when we met with the pre application. We went over the process and kind of where we are today. You know, we spent about $5,000 just in survey costs alone, to get this formalized for something we thought it always been in place for the last 20 years.

Okay. Commissioner height

Two things Joe in your materials there’s an exhibit a and Zack and your materials It was a photograph share first Zach’s photograph of what these spaces look like sidewalk to me I just want to confirm

that’s exactly what if you were looking at from a Eagles view it would look like it’s an extended sidewalk and those areas that’s exactly what it would look like

from from above.

Okay, jack.

I don’t know Heather, can you pull up Zach’s presentation find that page with a picture of

what these things look like?

Yes, give me just one moment.

Joe or I’m sorry, Mr. Taylor. Are is there Adjacent sidewalk.

I’m Nancy, can you answer that? I can’t. I mean across the street, there’s a sidewalk but on that side, I believe it’s just street gutter and then where we have the parking spaces you’ve got the concrete but when those parking spaces Yeah, some of those parking spaces and I don’t believe there is a sidewalk past that front car and Nancy, maybe you can expand on that a little bit. I can’t picture that in my mind right now.

Miss Clayton

because that looks like sidewalk to me. Joe, is there any difference to this side of the street, no side street.

I guess. The other side of the street is is just a sidewalk and

I’m unmuted now. And then sidewalk is on the east side to be on your left on this picture. And this will be the picture of five parking places that are cross from there to the nearest to our mailbox pedestals. And so this would be at the north end of Whitehall

going to our complex

that’s the west side of Whitehall at the north and the east side of Whitehall on that side to the other side of the street, is Does it look any different?

Well, it’s a little less wide. So those parking places are wider. And on the east side,

do you further those pine trees?

Yes, that’s a designated parking also. So there’s find parking places, they’re starting just a little bit to the left of the pine tree. And it’s pretty hard to see there’s two cars and then there’s three more parking places to the north to the back of those place cars.

So this entire 3000 foot

vacation that joy you’re seeking, only can house 12 vehicles. Why is that? 3000

if it’s 11 parking places, so this is the most This is five. And then as you head on South, there will be a driveway going into a stand among garage and there’ll be three parking places. Then you come to a landscaped area of rocks and trees and shrubs, and you have three more of these places all on the website of Whitehall as it curves from north to south.

So the 11 that

we thought as an HOA that they belong to us, and we have maintained them. And at one time there was no sign up. But we found that some homeowners thought that they could just claim one for their own for long periods of time. And that’s what started this back in 2014. have been able to have a car towed if they stayed overnight or 48 hours or 72 hours.

Okay, back to exhibit a, which is the plotting of this 3500 foot long vacation. It seems to me when I looked at it that that was you Formally, why’d you explain to us now that though the parcel that you’re looking for is uniform and width, it’s not all paved. Some of it is rock some of this landscape. Is that correct?

Well, I have no idea. Well, this 3700 square feet. I assume that has to come off of the survey that we paid for.

Yes, that is. That is correct. There’s grassy areas and rock areas, and all the way going through there. That is correct. That’s already an area that we were maintaining and have been for the last 20 years.

Thank you, Chairman

churning. This is Susan.

I could pull up Google Maps, which may give you a better overview to look at if you’d like.

Yeah, please. Thank you and let’s go to Commissioner Koehler.

I was going to suggest the same thing if you actually go to the Street View. They have a pretty good video or setup of pictures that you can see the parking there but one of my questions was, so what what’s the difference? You know, practically speaking if the HOA owns these parking spots or at the city does is the HOA towing and currently but the city isn’t allowing that is that the scenario

but the joy we tow is a last resort. What we do is we we we tag it and say hey, there’s no parking here from midnight to 6am from 6:01am to 11:59pm. Anybody can park there, we don’t care but at midnight, it’s got to be cleared out. Otherwise there was vehicles that were just staying there for you know, 4872 hours back in the day, and even a week or two on on on end and the city never took action. And then understanding was well, you know, the city’s not going to tell anybody if it’s a associations property there. And then that advanced, correct me on this back in 2014. That’s when we started putting up the signs to say, Hey, no parking from midnight to 6am because the city just wasn’t taking any action on towing cars. That’s Is that a fair statement?

Yes. So when we got the,

when we spoke with Ava and got the word from the lawyer and Ava, that these parking places belong to us, then is when we installed the signs saying no parking from midnight to 6am and that you would be towed at your own expense. But we have an application process that if a person does need to park there, they can apply and they can park up to seven days according to our policy. We adopted after we got the word from our lawyer in Eva in 20 1415.

The idea is that these spaces are supposed to be for the visitors of the villas, not the homeowners who have a third vehicle or something parking there all the time.

Correct. Ideally, correct? Yes. Okay. Which is why it’s with a limited number of so I’m sorry, I’m in no good. That’s why with the limited number of spaces, it’s essential because if we don’t have these, we’ve got seven space. 90 units for guests.

Okay. And then

elderly community there too. So we’ve got a lot of caregivers and that kind of stuff that that need to come and have access.

And there’s no plans to change the because right now, it looks like there’s no parking allowed on that street on that West Side. Unless you’re in one of those spaces. There’s no plans to change that right.

No, because The street is too narrow there that that suite is I don’t have the exact measurements but why call drive going through Villas at you Creek is less number of feet wide than when you go out when you make the right hand turn and go west on Whitehall drive that becomes a wider Street. So if anyone parked on not in one of those parking places, then you have basically a one way traffic area to whitehouse drive.

Okay, that answers my questions. Thank you.

I saw some other hands up from other commissioners Commissioner flooded

the chair question


your sound is now muted to know.

Apparently somebody said they couldn’t hear me.

This is for the traffic engineer I’m curious as to if these If White Hall is actually

a public or private road.


for the entire complex

white white Hall drive is

is a public road,

the loop

coming around

I don’t want to say a horseshoe but almost like a horse race track there. That’s all private.

Like the section from from what part two and part is public.

From pace

Street to Whitehall drive and Clarendon drive meet that part of Whitehall drive going west, right where that arrow is right now is is public.


then my question is what is the width of that street? presently the public art of it?


I know it was gonna say it was 16. But I don’t know, I know it was part of the application process that the survey did, the surveyor didn’t look at.

Okay. And what we took as our own measurements was that the street is 21 feet six inches wide, and when it makes the turn to the west, it’s 34 feet Six inches wide. So a difference of seven feet.

I understand Doug Gossett there are you part of the traffic engineering people.

I am not a part of the traffic engineers but I am one of the Public Works engineers. So I believe and this is an estimate I believe it’s approximately from flow line to flow line it’s about 21 to 22 feet, which is generally the minimum section that you would have for traffic in both directions. I could pull up the subdivision plat and give you the total right of way with which would include the sidewalk

no have that and one second.

So it’s approximately 34 feet in total right away with so that’d be measured from generally back of walk to this parking.

So the parking takes off about a third of the entire right of way area. paved right away area.

That’d be correct. In some areas, it’s paved. In some areas, it’s grass. But this is not a typical Street. Typically what you would see is you’d have widened asphalt and that’s where your parking that is in the asphalt. But one of the commissioners in Michigan mentioned this is designed more almost like a sidewalk. So it’s basically mimics what sidewalk would look like, but it is parking.

Okay, thank you.

Susan, could you pull back up the the Google Maps shot? I have a question for Mr. Taylor. about this. And if you could zoom back in just a little bit. Thank you. Um, and if you wouldn’t mind just scooting the image over to the right a little bit so we can see the Clarendon drive a little better. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. Um, so, Mr. Taylor, where, so we know that I’m on your survey. That the easement is shown down toward the southern tail of this, but then it starts the sidewalk curves and you see a silver car park there right by the word bite Hall drive. Yep, that one. Um, where does your ownership of white hole drive begin and end the HOA? So if I remember correctly when

I was out there with the survey and Nancy might want to chime in to I believe it’s right where the trees go to be right there. Right about there that area right there is where the the event stancy Is that correct?

Yes. Can you see the privacy stance? Well, you can’t hardly see it. But if you see the white car on Whitehall, drive that one and then just go a little bit to the west that of behind that bush is our fans and then it goes comes to the south, and it ends just in those trees down here to the south. And so all of that is our Hoa. And then so clarity about was a difference in the pavement the color, the darker is would be villain and the lighter would be Spring Valley.

Okay, so it seems that from Mr. Williams his comments that and questions that it’s this juncture between the villas Hoa and Spring Valley Hoa and who controls parking spaces and how they’re getting enforced and and this all goes to the question of is there an adversary impact on to the surrounding neighborhood. That’s where I’m headed with with questions. So, Mr. Taylor, if I’m so you folks are trying to clear your parking out on between midnight and 6am on. But during the day, you don’t really know who’s parked there could be somebody from Spring Valley, it could be a caregiver from some other part of the city. could be anybody, correct? That’s correct. Okay. Yep. But at midnight, you, you would go ahead and tow a car that’s still parked there because you’re trying to make sure that people are not squatting on the spaces permanently and just taking them out of commission altogether.

We wouldn’t tow it, we wouldn’t tag it and just basically say you’re in violation of the bills that you create code. Anyone have my phone number on there to say, contact me And then if they call me you know I educate them hey these are those of you create parking spaces. You can park there any day but at midnight from midnight to 6am it’s kind of removed. We don’t we and I think we’ve told one car and almost three years I’ve been involved there and it was actually abandoned. So we are not in the practice of we don’t we don’t like I don’t like towing calls cars. I don’t like getting the calls that we tow cars. So it’s always his last resort. We’ve never actually that I’ve been involved have towed a resident car they’re the only again the only one that’s towed was actually abandoned vehicle.

Okay. Um, one of the concerns seems to be and I think I saw this in the, the letter that was in our packet was that um, if your Hoa controls these spaces instead of the city controlling them, that parking will be pushed into spring valleys area on How do you respond to that?

My response would be that

if it’s one of it shouldn’t be any of our, our our homeowners or residents because we have either two car garage and two places to park a car in the driveway or the worst case scenario, we’ve got a one car garage with an option to park in an assigned parking spot there. So I would be very surprised if if I mean I’ve heard of that one. This is the one case that I heard was what the resonant or unclear and brought up but i don’t i mean i’ve over there two three times a month and I’ve never seen an abundance of vehicles on that little area from

on Whitehall drive from

from our private type area to McLaren.

Okay so from from your experience, you’re telling me that you did not witness um, overflow parking from from your Hoa ending up in the neighboring Hoa area. That’s fine.

I do not but Nancy might be able to speak better than that because she actually lives on premises. I’m usually there either, you know, in the morning or in the afternoon. So Nancy, do you see ever see a overflow of our residents going on to that area?

There are occasions

but I would say it’s minimal.

We had one resident that had a motorcycle that he didn’t want to put in his garage so he parked over there probably maybe 48 hours or more at a time. But I would say that any resident over there Clarendon area has the option to call the code enforcement, police etc.

Right. Okay, thank you Miss Clayton. Thank you, Mr. Taylor. more comments questions from the commission.

Commissioner Hi,

Mr. Taylor Miss querying Miss CLARIN? Gee, sorry, Claritin is an industry. They’re in is your name. In any event? I’m assuming that there are times when these 12 spaces might be used for guests for up to seven days I think is indicated your policy work. policy is Does that ever get maxed out? Do you ever have 12 visitors at one time there for over a week? I

know we have. We have never in my 16 years of living here

and how

the seven day permits.

I’m sorry, I didn’t understand you

for how long In in a year will grant a seven day permit.

I probably have granted maybe six a year. So are most of our residents only have two cars and our requirement is that they have had two cars in the garage and one in their driveway so that allows three cars so many times. an overnight gift can park in the residents driveway. And if we do not take into consideration that people want to use part of their garage for storage.

I have a question for Zack.

Zack is

If the villas Hoa did not control these parking spaces and parking was allowed by anyone anytime just like on any other public street what have you and and other city staff determined would be the effect on a spring

called the other Hoa spring

interesting so

you’re asking what the impact is specifically just so I’m clear

right what what would be the impact on Spring Valley if the you villas it at a I’m getting my Hoa names mixed up oh If they were not given this, this vacation and therefore did not control these spaces, and these spaces remained public parking.

Sure. So like you mentioned right now they are public parking, anyone can park there and that includes non residents of villas that you Creek at present. If the vacation goes forward then that parking becomes private parking right? It becomes Hoa property. So that does give the HOA the ability to regulate and, you know, place tags on people’s cars. And, again, how they choose to do that I’ll leave up to them to further clarify. So that presents a potential adverse impact for any member of the public who was seeking to park in those spaces. What I would say is that in the review criteria 15.0 2.055. The way this works is the publication It fits in utility of the vacation request outweigh any adverse impacts of the vacation. It isn’t necessarily that the vacation creates any adverse impacts itself.

So that’s kind of the line that you’re trying to determine here.

Okay, great. Thank you for that clarification on Commissioner Poland.

Tech, another question for you.

Given the current state, what are the city laws rules regarding how long somebody can be parked in one of those spots?

Sure, right now, any public parking space and public right of way the maximum duration is 72 hours before they be required to move. Thank you.

Commissioner Goldberg.

In general, I think jumping off a committee pullins question, Zack, what is the course of action? Joe Taylor and the villa that you Creek could take just they were concerned with a vehicle being residing in one of those clubs for longer than 72 hours.

In lieu of going through the right of way vacation,

just in general things remain, things remain as they are now without a vacation.

Sure. So right now they would be able to contact code enforcement if there’s a vehicle in place or contact law enforcement.

And take the annotated data and code enforcement as responses to inquiries and complaints, if you will, by employees and other organizations.

concerned with vehicle things go on.

I’m sorry, the beginning of your question cut out a little bit.

Is it safe to say that code enforcement is responsive to complaints or concerns raised Regarding vehicles that have been parked for too long in one spot

Yeah, I would say so.

And then my last question also for you just speak to that I’m sorry if it was clear in the packet but is it safe to say that the Spring Valley Hoa has been notified out this request for vacationing of the of this pieces and we heard from them at all I might have expected each of them one publicly by to be heard or, or, you know, as in communication throughout?

Certainly, yeah. As part of our notification process, we do notify local neighborhood groups including Hoa as when I sent the notification out Initially, I didn’t get a response from that Hoa. I did get calls from neighbors that’s the presentation but nothing from the HOA group specifically

Zach, another question regarding this. So currently, who does? Who does the road plowing of this particular area? So I assume the city probably does the street but then does the city do those parking spaces as well? Or do you just basically plow the street and basically push the snow into those parking spaces?

I would venture since that’s a local street and a non priority plowing street in a large snow event. I’m my assumption is that they don’t plow the spaces themselves that the HOA manages that. And Joe, I’m sure can speak to it what happens

Zacks correct they if and when they’ll play that plow the street but we again for the last 20 years have been plowing into those parking spaces.

Okay. And then Zach.

Joe Kaler indicated that they’ve been doing the maintenance The of the right away part that is in parking spaces the word or whether it’s rock or whether it’s I guess it might be grass.


That means then that technically the city actually should be taking care of

that correct? That’s it depends on you know what specifically the the development agreement originally presented and what the responsibility of the HOA in that development agreement entails. pretty commonly for residential developments, the you know, any right of way that’s as part of your development is maintained by the owner and in this case, that’s the HOA has come most, you know, residences in the city. So if, if in the event that say there was damage to the curb there in the city right of way they could contact the city and the city could be responsible for repairing it. That’s not me. Common and that right would be waived in the event the vacation goes forward in this area. Does that make sense? That makes sense. Thank you. Yeah.

Commissioner. Hi.

Thank you, Zack, I have more questions to in your presentation. It was a recommendation, I think for condition that there be a curb cut to delineate between Street and parking area.

Is that correct?

That I’ll let Doug speak about that one. That’s a condition of approval from staff.

If Doug is still

Yep, I’m still here. So this right, Yes, that is correct. We are requiring after council approves the vacation ordinance. And before that, we record it that they actually Sokka joint between the parking and the curb. So the city will still own and maintain the curb and all the street and the parking needs to be on by them. So to so to reduce any conflicts in the future of ownership. We would have them install a curve or a soccer along that line.

Mr. Taylor, you’re in agreement with that condition. Great. Possibly. The next question to there was a discussion about rededication of grant or obtaining the city obtaining new easements or their utilities or other portions inside the parking area that needs access to.

So yeah, so with that, with this when we vacate it, we want to maintain the city’s right to use that entire space, whether it be for maintaining the roadway. So if we need a staging area to put stuff in, or if we need a you know, if we need to just get in there for forming things up like the curb and gutter, we want to be able to maintain that right to get on that property. There are several utilities located in the right of way but not within the area that’s being vacated. So we will be maintaining our right to be able to go in there and and maintain it as we see fit.

And Mr. Taylor is the HOA. All right with that part of it that easement agreement requirement or access easement agreement.

Yes, we’re fine with that.

So Zack, it seems like possibly we need two conditions to approve this as presented that there be a curb cut and that the HOA, enter into an appropriate easement agreement, or access. Now,

those were those were required as part of the staff review. Those were required prior to us making this presentation. So those are included in the approval if you approve it without conditions.

Done planning manager down purcha?

Chairman schoeneck Commission, I think to be consistent with the way that we typically do the vacations, I think Commissioner height is right, we should add that to conditions and look at PG rb, with those two conditions recommended to the city council. Typically when we do the vacations to Council and we need to make sure that we receive those easements or a condition is met. In order for that vacation to take effect, we document those in the ordinance. And so I would recommend that we at the commission include that in their recommendation if that’s the route that you choose. Thank you.

Thank you. No.

More thoughts.

Questions Commissioner Alderaan

And you’re still muted.


Sounds like this parking area has been used as a visitor parking. And even though it’s legally a public space, so if there’s no vacation, the parking is going to be public parking. If it is vacated, it’s going to be visitor parking. And I don’t see much difference between public and visitor. They are the same people. And what I’m hearing from Hoa is that it’s not for their advantage to not use this as a visitor parking except for some, you know, rare occasions where a resident asked for overnight or two days parking for a family visiting that particular household. And sounds like city already provides 72 hour


So, as conclusion I don’t see much of an impact of this particular request or vacation. That’s thanks.

Mr. Bolen.

Yeah, I do agree with Commissioner on Iran in looking at the public benefits and utility versus any adverse impacts of the vacation. I agree that I don’t see that there’s too much of a adverse impact. It doesn’t sound like there’s been no proof that there’s a in order non in order in amount of people who use it parking. Who would need it for overnight. It sounds like for the most part, most of the pieces have three parking spaces that seems to be more than enough to handle it. And it just seems like it would be really a stretch that if you take away that parking from midnight to 6am that all sudden you’re going to have a flood of people going up to Claritin. I just really don’t see that happening. And by allowing this vacation, it does kind of clean up this part of the city streets, the ownership and the maintenance of it. It just makes it a lot cleaner. So at this point unless something else comes up, I would be for the vacation of this

commercial flag.

I think I agree with Commissioner polen in that it does clean up the situation. It also makes clear where the parking really should be designated. public streets are allowed to be parked on bikes Anyone anytime, a reason up to 72 hours. And if you have the area that is can be used very well as guest parking Hoa of the condos used as public parking that anybody can just zoom in there and there they are. And it’s up to the residents to make sure nobody’s parking there when they shouldn’t. They were to go a little further digging a public street would be no problem. So I will be supporting vacation.

Thank you. Any other further thoughts? Commissioner Goldberg.

Thanks. I think for reasons that Commissioner honor on


Okay. Do we have a motion? Anybody want to make a motion?

Commissioner Hi.

I think it’s pcrc nd I don’t have my numbers

but it’s approval with conditions and

the conditions being

wanting to PCR 2027 B with the conditions being that a curb cut be installed If approved by city council and in addition the appropriate access and easement agreement

approved by city council.

Okay, Thank you Commissioner height we have a motion to approve 2020 dash seven z seven B which has two conditions one about a curb cut the other about an easement condition polling.

I will second that motion.

Seconded by Commissioner polen. Any further discussion? Let’s take a vote. Those in favor say aye. Raise your hand Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Seeing none that passes unanimously. Um and this item will now be forwarded to the Longmont City Council for action. If you’re unfamiliar with council procedures and intend to appear before counsel, please contact the planning division for further information at 303-651-8330. Mr. Taylor, Miss Clayton, thank you for taking your time to present to us on Zach and dog. Thank you for being here tonight as well. We have some more business to take care of on our agenda. So we’ll move on to that. item seven is our final call public invited to be heard. We’ll put our slide up again for how people can call in if they want to make a comment about something that was not on tonight’s agenda. And if you want to do that call 1888780099. Enter meeting id 83838288942. It’s 187880099. Enter 83838288942 takes us about five minutes to get everybody entered into the meeting. So we’ll take five minute break. Thanks

cherisher Nick, we did not have anyone in our waiting room.

Okay, thank you, Heather. Um, so we’ll move on to any items from the commission. Any commissioners have anything?

No seeing nothing.

Let’s see. We don’t have council representative Rodriguez with us tonight. Any items from Denver Chet are planning manager

pyramid sure Nick just wanted to pass on compliments to everybody again for working with us with this technology wanted to say thank you to Heather and Susan and to Jane for all their hard work on making this seamless for us. We really do appreciate all that. And then also just wanted to thank again, Doug and Zack for their work on the vacation request to make it make it, I think fairly easy to understand something that could have been pretty complicated. So I just wanted to say thank you to them. And that’s all that I have. So thank you.

Great. Thank you very much done. Um, and unless anybody is opposed. We will adjourn. All right. We’re adjourned. Oh, wait, Commissioner. Commissioner. Hi.

I just want to say Zack, great job. Yes.

Good job, Zack. And welcome to the team. All right. Okay, We’re adjourned. Take care.

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