To listen to the meeting alongside a transcript, please visit: https://otter.ai/s/QPktV5kHRuC0qv2Tp11sPw
2020 a study session to order city council meetings are currently being held remotely due to the governor state that went into effect on March 26 2020. People can watch the meetings email@example.com forward slash c forward slash city of Longmont forward slash live or Longmont public media.org forward slash watch. So if we start with a roll call
Yes. Mayor Bagley here
here you delgo fairing.
She’s here. Okay. Martin.
Peck. Here. Rodriguez here,
and waters. Here. There you have a quorum.
Great. Let’s stand in Say the pledge.
I pledge allegiance to the flag
of America to the republic for which it stands one nation under God.
and justice for all.
I always knock over the Colorado flag. Sorry, Governor. All right. So let’s go ahead and move on to motions to direct the city manager to add agenda items to future agendas. Does anybody have anything? Or waters?
Thanks very badly. I don’t it’s not direction to staff. It’s actually a request or a question of council members. I got up. I was I got an email notification. A resident happens to be a ward one resident, but doesn’t To a gentleman who’s turning 100 years old on on Saturday. And he can’t, they can’t celebrate his birthday. So the homeowners association was arranged for kind of a little parade of cars to drive by ad hoc. He’s going to be with his granddaughter on the front porch waiting. And people are going to offer kind of video. Best wishes, birthday wishes. So my question to council members into the mayor is, Would any of you be willing to join that expression of Berkeley wishes for one of our centenarians turning 100 years old on Saturday? So there’s two ways we could do this. Probably the easiest way for feedback, probably the easiest way is I could send you a zoom invitation. And I could just record each of us and then send those recordings to help tell us My public media and they could put that together, they’re going to put together something just to recognize this gentleman, or each of us could just video individually and send it to them. Whenever whatever is the easiest for you all I’m happy to, I’m happy to do.
I think this is
Polly. Well, it’s so many. Everybody makes sure your mics are on mute. Because we’re hearing somebody’s mic.
Yeah, anyway. Can you hear me?
I can’t hear you. Oh, well, yes, we
I can’t hear Brian. But um, so Tim, I think this is a wonderful idea. Yeah, please send us a zoom or we can also drive by we could do both, you know, and then every day you turn 100. So I think that’s a wonderful idea. And maybe there are other people turning 102. So yeah, in a sense To me,
I think it would be kind of fun every time somebody turns 100. But the city? Yeah.
So I’ll, what I’ll do is I’ll forward the email, I’ll send it to Don and Don, you can send out the address. And there’s a little route that they’re asking people to drive. So there’s not a traffic jam, right a neighborhood. And then I’ll, if it’s okay, I’ll just send a meeting or a zoom meeting invitation. And figure out what works on your schedules. And just wish him happy birthday and whatever else you’d want to say. And then I’ll send that off and lpm can put it together because I know they’re going to get wishes from neighbors and other community members and it would just be fun to have a set of messages from city council members and from the mayor. So go
ahead. I’m sorry, go ahead.
Sorry. Um, so this is going to be on the on Longmont observer where a website
I don’t know about the observer. I think it’s going to be on the Longmont public media website.
I think they’re going to put it together.
Why would so here’s my concern about it. Is that um, are we going to be expected? Are people going to say why are we Why are we doing this just for this one person or would you? I’m confused as to how this is going to work in the future. Um, can we can we make it generic? Are all octogenarians are?
centenarians? Aren’t they centenarians? Yeah, yeah, I wasn’t. I wasn’t making a motion. But my response to the question, Well, why are we just doing this now? And so we got to start sometime? No, no, it’s time to start.
No, it wasn’t what it was. Why are we doing it now? It is. Are we? Are we only going to do it for this one gentleman and if people say Why are you doing this for this person? Can we do it generically For all
Well, that’s probably not my call, but I would think it makes a great sense. I would, I would sign up to do it for everybody that turns 100 years old and this community take time to do that. I think it would be fun to do. So.
One generic or each individual one
each individual. Okay, I’ll send you this fellow’s name. So you can have his name, and I just didn’t want to mention now since we’re being recorded and going live, so
Marsha, you’re muted.
Marsha, we can’t hear you. You’re muted.
Can you hear me?
I thought we had to be
unmuted. I’m sorry. I can unmute myself. Okay. I was going to say the reason that this is being done this way is because Stay at home order. So we don’t necessarily have to do this in perpetuity, but we probably should do it every time someone turns 100 during the stay at home order, because they can’t have their regular party. And that’s the reason that this is happening. So it doesn’t commit us to too much as what I was saying.
I don’t see anybody else I guess, I guess my I am for this. And I will I would ask a zoom invite, because that’s easiest. And then I will also commit to driving by in the car. However, I suspect that some people will question and criticize us because we are leaving our homes for non essential activity. It is, uh, you know, we’re quarantined and socially distancing, etc, etc. So as long as everybody’s aware that we might catch some flack. I’m all for it.
I will send I’ll send you a zoom meeting invitation and And then people can decide to drive by or not. But at least we can express our wishes to this gentleman.
Thanks for bringing that up. Okay, counsel. Anybody else have anything? All right, great. Then let’s go ahead and can we read the public invited to be heard it sounds like we’ve got the shortlist there.
Yes. Can you hear me?
So the first one is from Kyle speidel, the green solution 4100, East Arkansas in Denver, Colorado. His comments are I am Kyle speidel, one of the owners of the green solution. I want to thank you for working with us to advance the city code changes prompted by the passage of House Bill 19 to 90. As you may know, my family and I built this company from the ground up TGS is now one of Colorado’s largest cannabis companies with eight cultivation facilities. One product manufacturer in 23 stores after the passage of House Bill 19 to 90 our reputation and growth Potential attracted some of the top publicly traded companies in the United States, we found the right partner and have entered into a purchase agreement with Columbia care, a multi state cannabis company. My brothers and I have overseen the daily operations of the green solution for over a decade, and we will continue to be closely involved with the company after the sale. The day to day operations will continue to be of the highest caliber as Columbia care will bring their best practices to complement the operations you have experienced from TGS and the city of Longmont. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach to contact me. Thank you again for working with us on the timeline for this action and to your staff are facilitating our request. The next comment mayor’s from Stanley toll 2137 dextra Drive apartment D. His comments are the city has a horrible problem with subsidized housing discrimination among the local landlords. When is the city council going to end this discrimination? It is almost impossible for people with housing subsidies to obtain rental homes In the city of Longmont, this is a life and death issue for a lot of these people. Is city council going to be responsible for this. The third comment is from Tiffany Cass and Nikki 2238 Bluebird drive Longmont. Her comments are Hello and thank you for your time. We would like to ask the city council to consider reopening the Longmont city golf courses. Golf is a perfect social distancing sport. With some restrictions, social distancing can easily be maintained, while providing a healthy outlet for residents to get outside and exercise. There are numerous examples in Colorado and other states of how golf courses are operating during the COVID-19 pandemic. For example, requiring golfers to pay online or on the phone, making the courses walking only and spacing out tee times. Colorado National Golf Course in Erie is a good example. For their website. They state the following in accordance with state regulations as well as permission from the Boulder County Health Department in the town of Erie. The courses open for walking only under Section three of the Order. All practice areas are closed to assure social distancing. And to eliminate any gatherings golf golfers must have a tee time and must prepay online over the phone the day of play. The Golf shop and clubhouse are closed to eliminate any contact. Due to the governor’s order. We have also reduced staff please arrive only 10 minutes prior to your tee time and meet the starter on hole number one. golfers cannot gather around the first tee. These respect the social distancing line painted around the starter booth. We will not be handing out scorecards, please download our app which has a digital scorecard for your use. All players must adhere to the social distancing requirements during play. Please respect in here to adhere to this policy at all times on property. The city of Colorado Springs also recently opened two of their golf courses with restrictions and she provides a link to that. We appreciate the gravity of the situation we are in and are grateful for everything being done to protect the public. Thank you for considering the possibility that along about golf courses could operate safely and provide an out outlet llama golfers to enjoy the spring weather and exercise. And that was all the comments we received there.
All right, great. Thanks, Don. All right.
Then let’s go on to a special board, some presentations, a we’re all interested here the COVID-19 update by Harold amigas. City Manager.
Actually, I’m going to turn it over to Dan to go over the operational aspects first, and then I’ll jump in with some other comments. Okay,
I guess that means I’m up. Um, can you hear me okay?
Okay, good. Well, good evening, Mayor Bagley, members of council. I hope you and your families are healthy and stay that way. I’ll start off with a little bit of, of good news. I guess. As we were getting a little further into this event, data is becoming more available. And that’s that’s a good thing, because we can track the progress of some of the actions We’ve been taking
when when we heard CDP, he did a really good job of presenting some of the state level data yesterday. And they’ve kind of broken in the in the things we’ve done into two phases. Phase One of the social distancing was kind of the schools bars and restaurants in that March 16 17th timeframe. Then phase two was the the full state home border on March 26. So we’re getting enough data now that we can start seeing the impacts of that phase one approach. And it’s it’s actually looking like we’re having an impact what the state is estimating is they’re seeing a 45 to 50% kind of reduction in contact, overall contact in the community, which is good. And locally, we’re starting to see a little bit of a flattening in the hospitalizations in Boulder County. So we have enough data now that we can actually start looking at localized impacts. So the last four or five days, we’re starting to see that hospitalization rate flattened out a little bit. It’s a little too early to say that it’s gonna last. But that’s some pretty significantly good news for us. And then on that phase to kind of the full blown, stay at home order, we’re expecting to start seeing the data impact on that in the next week. And we can start evaluating whether or not that’s had the impact that the state thinks it’s going to have. And that is probably the biggest thing we’re trying to look for is what percentage of reduction in contact that is made, because I’ll kind of explain why that’s so important. So like I mentioned before that phase one is probably had kind of a 45 to 50% reduction in overall contact. What they’re hoping is that the phase two is going to get us into that 60 to 80% range, and there’s a significant difference. between 60% and 80%. So the 60% reduction is still significant. And it kind of makes that peak really sort of into mid May, June, mid June, which is good because it means the curve is flattening a little bit. However, the total infection statewide, they’re still saying it’s going to be somewhere in that 65,000 range, which is a bunch, and it will exceed the capacities of the ICU beds in mid May. If we get to 80%, then the peak is going to be maybe where we’re at right now, or at the end of April. The statewide total is going to be 2400 versus 65,000. If we’re at 60%. And we won’t ever actually impact the amount of ICU beds that we can provide. So the closer we can get to that 80% range, the better chance we have of actually maintaining hospital capacity through the state. So it really kind of shows you how important It is that we’re trying to convince people to abide by the governor’s order how important it is for people to stay home, except for essential business. Because if we can get closer to that 70 80%, we’re talking orders of magnitude impact. And we should be able to start measuring some of that data in the next week or two to see how close we’re getting. And then if we get close enough, as we get closer to the end of that April May timeframe, then we can start really starting to make some decisions on what we can do to start kind of reducing the amount of impact we have on people’s lives. So those are all really good things we have now as data on the local granular level for our hospitals. We’re in good shape. I mean, the overall messages were in good shape. We have 22 people that are in hospital with confirmed COVID cases right now, which is well within the amount those hospitals can handle. They’re starting To see some impact on the ICU side. But as I mentioned last week, the hospitals in Boulder County have really committed to plan and respond to this thing together. So as a county, we’re in really good shape. Everybody’s pretty confident where we are. And they’re starting to really get to a planning of what’s going to be the next phase if we need it. What is what does surge look like? Do we need to have a alternate care facility type like you’re seeing in Denver with the convention center that they’re opening up down there? Do we need that and we’re putting together a plan for what that could look like. And I know there was there’s some data out locally to about more specificity on where the cases are in the county. So out of the about 201 cases in Boulder County that are converged, either confirmed or what they’re calling probable. boulder has 83 Longmont has 51 which you’d kind of expect, you know with the the population base But the good news I think for Longmont is if you break that down on the kind of a per hundred thousand population ratio long months below Lafayette and Lewisville pretty significantly, you know boulders it was at 77, Lafayette 75, blissful, 72 and long months way down to 53. So I think that really shows that the citizens of Longmont are really doing what we’re asking them to do by a large percentage. So I think that is a also a pretty significant statistic that we’re seeing. We can start to measure that over time as well.
And the second thing or the kind of the last thing I wanted to talk about quickly was PvE. We talked about this pretty much every day is what we’re going to do for personal protective equipment for our staff. What we can do for higher level medical grade for our first responders, you know, police and fire and we also have other first responders in the community too with public works crews that that are out in the community that for safety reasons have to be close together. What can we do to provide safety equipment for them also, we’re actually in pretty good shape there to probably better than we were last week, we’re starting to get a few more places we can order from. We’re not out of the woods by any measure, but I think we’re a little better off than we were. The biggest thing we’re trying to figure out now is the impact of the governor’s ask that we all wear cloth masks out in public. And we’re asking all of our staff to do that. And we’re trying to find ways that we can supply those to the public, not to the public, to our staff when they’re in the public. And we’re trying to figure out what the supply chain for that is, we’re going to be putting together a PP drive, that we’re going to ask the public to drop them off if they want to make them if they can find them to purchase. I think the details on that are coming out soon. So we’re going to try to figure out a way that we can provide those to all of our staff that need them. I think that’s kind of our the big update right now. I think the takeaways there are the data starting to come in on a local level that we can measure what we’re doing. And I think it’s it’s starting to trend in the right direction. PBE is still a little bit of a challenge, but we’re working through it every day. I’d be happy to take any questions unless Carol, do you want to go into the second part of it before we do that? Let’s take some questions.
you’re muted Polly.
I’d be happy to wait to ask Dan my questions until after Harold talks if that’s better.
I think it’s better to take it now on the data that both of us can jump in. We need to
you know, there are a lot of people who are making homemade masks. A lot of the A lot of this is centered out of hidden treasures on 23rd and main. And people are very eager to be held to help be helpful. And a lot of us still got a lot of time on our hands. So as soon as you do know who to turn those into, please let us know. And please contact. I hidden treasures up on 23rd in Maine there, they have a whole group of people organized. We’re doing this all the time. Secondly, Dan, I have heard that weld county where they do not believe in any kind of social distancing, apparently, is now the epicenter of cases in the state. Is that true? And also last night, Governor polis said that not a single ventilator has come to Colorado from the federal government. Is that still true?
Well, on the soul, I’ll try to take all those questions there on the hidden treasure side, we have been in contact with them. And we will get the details out to all of you. As soon as we nail it down. We’re aiming for this Saturday, but we’ll, we’ll get the details to you as soon as we have them. So thank you for that. For the weld County. They certainly do have many more cases than we do. The last time I checked, they were in the low five hundreds. I betcha Harold can pop on that website there real quick and get us up to date numbers, but they were in that low 537. There you go. 537. So they’re significantly higher than er. The impact that that has for us is, you know, one of our hospitals sits, you know, on the eastern border of our community and they definitely get feel the impact from weld County. So we do experience that a little bit and probably will continue to as they lag a little bit behind us,
Dan. Yeah. Can I share that? My screen with that North? The North Central all hazard freezing region? Can I share that screen? Yeah. Just so counsel from this is one of the things that one of the tools that we have to look at and so let me
Harold, I may have to make you a presenter.
Notes. Let me
there you go see it? Yes.
So that’s actually
out of the. Yeah, they basically take that from the Johns Hopkins site. And it’s a really good kind of Visual Dashboard of the current cases. But on the on the ventilator question, I actually don’t know the answer to that. apologize, but I can certainly dig into that because I don’t know for sure. Right. Now, I will find out.
Thanks, Dan. I appreciate it.
I just I just want to make sure I heard so we’re doing a p p p p p or p p drive. That’s awesome. But I also heard that there’s in Colorado a total of 22 hospitals with patients. I see you. I see you. I see us have beds. Right. We’re currently not under. So far so good. Right.
The so far so good part is correct. The what I was trying to say is in we have 22 COVID positive patients in our husband’s got it. And then do we know how many of those are serious? I mean, I mean, like the condition serious, not in ICU. I believe the last time I checked there were six that were in ICU.
And do we know if those are stable, serious or
other? I don’t know the
All right. All right, cool. And then, um, awesome, then how many beds total available in long run ICU beds that I can check to real fast. Okay.
So while he’s doing that, I think the thing that we’ve seen in this is, depending on what’s happening in the world, I think yesterday we saw a bit of a surge and in one facility and it’s managing different issues. So that is something that in in watching that conversation that it does vary a little bit daily. Well, Dan’s got known for that or what he’s looking for those numbers. I wanted to touch base on a couple of things with you all. We talked a little bit about business assistance last week, wanted to let council know where we are today. So they they built what we’re now calling the intake form. And all of the economic development partners have gone out. And they have reached out to 10 to 15 different businesses that represent the community both geographically and in various aspects demographically, and they’re working them through this intake form. And really what it’s designed to do is to see whether or not they’ve reached out in some of the existing federal programs that are via the spdc. If they were, were they successful? If they were successful, what did they receive? And that’s still being processed, because we all know that, that systems had its challenges. In addition to that, if they weren’t successful, we also want to know why that occurred, or if they chose not to apply. In addition, we’re also really trying to get at what are the short term needs and the long term needs that these businesses are projecting in the future. And what we’re really trying to do is design something that will allow us to collect data to really see what the needs are in the community right now. Now, because as you know, based on what action you took last week, what Kimberly has from the DDA and what we had an existing grant sources, we only have about 180,000 right now collectively. And so what we’re trying to understand is what do we need to do? And what makes the bus really target that so we can have the most impact with the dollars that we have. Joanie is going to get briefed on that tomorrow, we’ll have more clarity, and then we can move to the next step. I know that those that have had those conversations, they have got some really good information. And part of what we’re going to have to evaluate is, is it something that folks can fill out? Or do we have to have a version of a call center to try to help folks understand that we’ll get more clarity to borrow on that piece of the business assistance side? You know, generally we’re hearing that you know, probably 5000 or below is probably not what folks need But we really want to verify that with data. We’re reluctant to just throw money out that may not really help the businesses that we need. And we want to make sure that we’re really focused. And we’re getting at the issues that we need to get out for the long term viability of these businesses. In addition, as I mentioned, there’s two components. There’s business assistance and individualized assistance. We did receive the letter from regarding allocation that we will get at least in this first round being an entitlement community in that allocation is going to be about 359,000. If counsel will remember when we talked about the split between business assistance and individual assistance, we talked about that being needing to be probably in the 60% range on the individual assistance because of the low mod income requirements that you have associated with that. So we have that they’ve given us our gun. And we’re going to take the direction that you all gave us last week in terms of the general parameters for business and individual assistance, and then get that plan together and put it out for public comment. But I wanted to let you know that we are seeing some of this start to come through. One of the things that we want to do
both of them but really primarily on the business assistance side, is understand what challenges people are facing. And as they roll programs out, we want to be able to batch people with those programs very quickly, because one of the things is they all have nuances and details to those programs. And as we’ve seen in the SBDC roll out, they change those rules pretty quickly. I think last night I heard they released new guidance late last night on some of those programs. And and so they’re dealing with that I know that a number of banks have indicated they can’t take any more applications and there’s some liquidity questions regarding How is the federal government going to put money into those accounts? And so they’re still working through a lot of things, but we have folks that are trying to stay on top of it. I know you had a long conversation with Jessica, only today in trying to bring all this together, but I did want to let you know we’re continuing to move in that process. At this point, I can answer any questions on that.
Don’t remember Christiansen
Okay. Now I’m unmuted. Thank you, Harold. Um, I was talking today with well I’ve been talking in the last couple of weeks with the to two of my neighbors and friends who are really excellent craftsmen, one of whom has five or six employees and he went To keep them on, but you know, it’s very difficult. So, and he’s been trying to fill out the forms with a notoriously bad bank, who shall go unnamed. But um, so he’s he’s getting nowhere with that. But he does. He does have another account with a local bank and he’s had much better luck with them. They’ve got right on it. However, I would like to know who in the city, I said you could try to check with Chamber of Commerce as well as online Economic Development Partnership, to see if they could help you get somewhere with this. Who Who would you advise me to have these small business people talk to in the city
in terms of
or help getting these farms processed and moved along because they are not really the easiest forums in the world to Do as you as you know, where can they turn for help in answering questions.
In terms of the programs that are already out there were really pushing to the SBDC. I know they have an existing phone bank for folks to call and ask questions and work through those issues. And I say that because these are small business development loans that are processed. And so the programs today that’s where we’re pointing everyone to. And we can get Joni to send that information out to council again, if you actually go into our website, and there’s a button at the top and you go business assistance, it actually takes you into what we were calling the hub, and they can find all of that information and where they need to go to and those programs that would be the SBDC on these programs.
Okay, thank you, Harold on the middle tomorrow.
Just to add
Herald So just having gone through this process myself, the I really really appreciate everything Jessica’s doing Harold’s doing chambers doing Walmart economic development partnerships doing. The one thing I found, you cannot apply for a loan unless you unless you have an account at a bank as of February 15 of this year. So a lot of these people are calling looking online filling out applications. The end of the day, if you do not have a banking relationship with a bank, as of February 15, you really, really are having a hard time getting getting assistance. The other thing is you have to be really, really careful what assistance you apply for because you can only apply for one. And so there’s one one is alone, that you cannot get forgiven. That’s zero percent interest. But the other one if you’re a small business and have payroll you want to be Focusing on the pee pee pee long and that you have to apply through your bank. So sooner or later, even if you go online, talk to the LDP talk to the small business folks have to go to your banker. And right now, it’s like there’s a bottleneck everybody’s trying to apply. In most banks only have one loan officer trying to process dozens and dozens and hundreds and hundreds of loans. So and there’s a checklist you’ll need to fill out an application and addendum, get payroll information, it’s worth it. Because what happens is so long as you do not fire your staff, as so far as you commit to keeping them on board their salaries. They will they will provide a forgivable loan. In other words, they will give you up to $100,000 per employee. You just have to show show what your average payroll is for the last 12 months, they will provide you that loan amount which is substantial. As long as you use it for payroll, they will forgive it 70% payroll and they will also forgive you. Utilities rent. It’s it’s a huge lifeline. But if you do not work with your banker, you are wasting your time. So you have to get your bankers attention, john.
so badly, correct me if I’m wrong. Your bank also has to be a bank that does business with SBA. Is that correct? Because not every bank, not every bank even though you bank there does SBA loans?
Correct. And so the whole of the The
the funnel for getting the money is the bank. So a lot of the banks, it’s their decision to loan more or less, but they’re the ones lending the money in my understanding is the feds are are just using this process. Yeah, they have to have some type of SBA or federal.
Right. So there’s,
I learned this the hard way, I spent a lot of time searching. And then finally, you have to find your banker that has that relationship job, right.
And that’s really the key is we can send you to the SBDC. And they can answer questions, but at the end of the day, it’s fake. And, you know, I know that they’re still evaluating this program. As I said earlier, they’ve been making changes to this program. And so we’ll, you know, we’re continuing to try to monitor that as a group and we can let folks know what’s what’s really the current situation on this. The other reason, when we when we look at this intake, and how We just signed the programs. There is some discretionary money that we saw in the HUD allocation. And so I’ve sent some notes to Kathy and Karen and Sandy and we want to talk about these. And as I indicated to the mayor yesterday, we’re going to probably want once we can identify what really works best in that world, we’re going to want to get some talking points to council so they can reach out to the Colorado delegation in different forums to see if we can move some of those discretionary components. Through that process, it’s not clear what that process is. So we’re going to go start building so once it comes clear, we can move in pretty quickly.
Um, I’m going to regret saying this.
But so my law firm is currently in hibernation for the most part, right? I got some time on my hands. I’ve gone through that loan process. So let people know to call me Even if they’re bankers, like I just I got three dozen before you. I can help people tell them what to get together. I’ve got copies of the application, the addendums, the checklists, I can tell them what to get from their payroll departments. I know that process. So if people need help, I’m more than willing to talk to them and send them the forms and Play, play banking. I can bank without a license, and then they can get it together and then forwarded on to their bank. I promise Paulie.
All right, Councilmember pack.
Oh, that’s a great, thank you. Mayor battery. That’s great offer. Would you be willing to do zoom meetings as well? with
them? Sure. Okay,
All right. Anything else there? Oh,
are there any other questions for from us?
Just waiting for that. Dan, do you have that information and then Marshall Martin, you’re
up. I do. I do Mayor Bagley. So here’s a couple more pieces of information for you. So in Longmont, we’ve got 43 total laters 12 of them are currently in use. There’s some good capacity there. There’s still nine ICU beds available. And there are 69 other beds still available.
All right, cool. Thank you. You’ve got bad news, bad news for those who are ventilated, good news for those who are about to ventilate. So, Councillor Martin,
it’s my Thank you,
Mayor Bagley. I was just wondering about this and maybe certain small businesses around town did not choose their bank before February, with their relationship with the SBA in mind, does that mean that their application is either out of the question or else will be be delayed? Or do they have an opportunity to, to bring in a more appropriately qualified bank into the picture?
So I’m only speaking with about 80% of
experience. So I bank with I’ve got four banks. And when I couldn’t reach my primary banker, I then started calling other banks and the other banks, those that I did not have a relationship with, they said without a lot, they could not do anything, primarily because the program requires that pre existing relationship. And also, even if it did exist, they’re just too busy with their clients.
I was told by multiple bankers that unless you have that pre existing relationship, you do not qualify. And I think I think the whole point is to make sure that people are not you know, fraudulently applying for law. They wanted to make sure that you were in business and that you were getting $2 trillion plus quickly to small business owners to be able to pay their payroll. I can only imagine the curse. So I think that was just
a start. So,
honestly, I got peril.
I just got some information almost right before we went in, I know that our economic partners are talking to different banks to see, I think there’s some that are based on some new guidance that maybe looking at different components of this, but at this point, we can’t say for sure, but I know there are some trying to figure out how they can approach it with customer with individuals who aren’t their customer. And hopefully we can have an answer to that in the near future. But at this point, the mayor is correct. You have to have that pre existing relationship. And if we can get any more information out, we will definitely pass that out to the community. Council.
Okay, thank you
have a one second. Sorry, Marsha, you’re writing
out a follow up. Question. Sorry. is is there? Are we considering any kind of support mechanism to help those teeniest businesses that may not have the the right kind of a banking relationship until they can get that rectified just so that they don’t disqualify themselves by being forced to lay people off?
So that again, you crackled on me. I
got it. Done. Okay. So that’s part of what we’re trying to find out in terms of the information that we’re receiving right now, to really understand what people need because at this point, when you don’t have and you have about 190,000, you really have to evaluate what will work because in whether or not it’s going to be beneficial, and that’s what we’re trying to understand right now. Really get into that question. poly finger versus anti
sorry. It’s getting dark in this room. Okay, I I had a question for Harold or for you Mayor Bagley and and I appreciate what you offered to help with.
Our credit unions included in this I believe they make small business loans. Number one, and secondly, about 40% of the millennials are involved in the gig economy, which means they really don’t have an employer. They’re self. They’re self employed, or there’s independent contractors. Um, what help us therefore independent contractor, they obviously aren’t able to get any Because they don’t have approval, but they they would potentially be able to apply for the zero interest loan. Is that correct or not?
Well, yeah, so like, for example, I’ve got, I’ve got a couple of con people I contract with to provide services. They applied for that other loan, the zero sum game. And so that all in the whole, the whole point of this is not to give small businesses a bunch of money, hope. I mean, the whole point is just to get by Yeah. Get get pass it on to the employees for 2.5 months. That’s the idea. So and then Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez.
Thank you, Mayor Bagley. This is a slightly different topic, but I’ve been getting a lot of concerns from constituents that are worried about enforcement of the stay at home order, as far as non essential businesses, as well as some other issues that they may see. generally tend to direct them to the county. And I believe that information has been pushed out that is consistent with having them report to the county any concerns they have. What kind of enforcement are we seeing from our local law enforcement in conjunction with concerns brought to the county?
So I’m gonna let Dan jump into so So generally, there’s two ways that information can pour in one if if it’s more of an immediate issue. So for example, if you see 50 people gathering, that is a different event and that goes into our dispatch, and then we send officer if it’s an immediate threat kind of issue. If it’s more in the business line that goes into the Boulder County Health Department, they then reach out to those businesses communicate with those businesses. And and then, you know, hopefully try to get compliance. If they can’t, then that’s when they move it back into the law enforcement realm. Then how Those conversations. It’s it’s interesting because each business has a different perspective. And you have different parameters on this. And so they really have to work through those individual issues. Dan, did I get that?
Yeah, you did. I think the on the specifically the law enforcement side, chief butler has been pretty clear with his direction on how we want to handle these things, which is really through education. And there have been few of the issues on kind of the community side and they’ve all been resolved with either a phone call or a discussion from an officer on the business side that really is a public health component that they have taken. And their enforcement is a little different. They typically do have a phone call and if they need to, they’ll follow up with an enforcement letter and they’ll do the enforcement through the county attorney’s office or that kind of mechanism. And they’re continuing to kind of beef up their staffing on that and it seems To be working fairly well, but like like Harold mentioned, there’s two paths if if people have a business concern that son, they feel a business is not in compliance that’s directed to the call center. If they feel that there is a non compliance with the stay at home order that’s directed more at a member of the community, those those calls typically go to our dispatch center, and they handle them.
Well, thank you very much. I’ll continue to relay this information to people as I get those questions.
I think the other thing that would help us too is we do run into areas that we actually have to have a fair amount of conversation with the health department and then potentially other agencies. I know, council received a number of calls regarding airports. And so we had to actually deal with both the county health department but then we also had to deal with FAA, because they sent some guidance out and it led to a lot of back and forth between those two agents. And we’re just now are starting to get clarity on some of those issues. So when you have these different layers that have different oversight functions, it’s not as simple as it may seem at times because you get into the word that we’re all used to and preemption and we then have to work through those specific items.
But you don’t Aaron.
Right, Casper Morton
Sorry about that.
Um, well now two questions. One’s just a request could. Harold could you have David Slayer sent out the clarity when it’s solidified because those questions are bound to come around again after this meeting
because it was mentioned
and My my original question is, I have gotten a couple of reports from people who live in apartment complexes where there are big parties being held no social distancing being observed. And they’re in one place, I guess in an office or came out. And everybody went back to their apartments and stopped partying until he was gone. And then they all gathered again. So I’m I’m, again, wondering what advice to give people, I gave both of them the advice that they should call when that happens, and that it’s necessary sometimes to keep calling. Because maybe the enforcement pattern needs to shift but they won’t know that if they don’t get all the calls. Is that correct?
That’s correct. And then What I would say is if you know those locations, if you can shoot an email to me, Dan, Joanie and Sandy, that way, we can make sure it gets pushed in to the appropriate locations to the appropriate department. So we know those locations, but you’re correct. And then, you know, part of what we’re also trying to manage is we also have our normal call load where we’re taking those calls based on the seriousness of the event that’s actually happening at that time. So, you know, back to an answer questions probably going to come out of this, we’re not seeing at least this significant change in our numbers and we compare them against previous year, which means we still have that activity that’s occurring that we then have to fold in with this activity. So yes, call and then if we can get that information, we can definitely push that into the commanders and in that group, so they’re aware of it.
Okay, thank you, and I There is a question about how the severity of this kind of non social distancing events, compares to other kinds of events now that we have the additional risk, and I will get to the name of the apartment complexes that have been reported to me.
I think it depends on what’s going on at that time Is that it? Is it
you know, some fairly significant issue, I mean, normal issues that we see on a daily basis, and it really depends on what’s happening at that time versus this activity. And what’s the call it so if you had a large wreck, that’s obviously going to be a different situation for that point in time.
Well, it’s Yeah, it’s a question of is a normal drunk and noisy party usually isn’t a very bad issue, but it might be a worse issue today than it was last year.
Correct. And in there, that way, it’s really, really, I guess, What I’m trying to say it’s related to the other activities that are actually happening at that given time that they’re managing their call volume. And then Jamie and David are working on a response to the FAA health department questions and we will send that out to everyone once we, once we complete it that started hitting midday today.
Kelsey. Remember double fairing? And then Joan, you’re up next.
So, what are the consequences for people who repeatedly um, you know, if they’re called being called out to people who have violated the stay at home order or the social distancing, if they’ve come out more than what what is the what’s the consequence what and what?
jump in and help me with that. I know you’ve been in those conversations.
Yeah, I can I can give it a try. Eugene may have to on this one too. There’s there’s actually a, there’s a there’s a criminal penalty attached to it and there’s also a civil route that you can go there is there is a summons that can be issued for a violation of a public health order. We haven’t we haven’t done that yet. And there’s also a civil avenue of enforcement that the public health would typically go down I think for a business violation. So I think if we went down the road of repeated violations for something like a, you know, an apartment complex party, I suppose we could go down the route of the summons but, you know, we’re going to try everything we possibly can to avoid that through, you know, education and, you know, community policing, kind of things before we got there, but there is a an avenue for for enforcement in that
in that way.
Um, you know, one of the a suggestion that came to me from a constituent and I thought it was brilliant was for people who are in violation of that public safety order to maybe do a, like have to do an online class on COVID. And the safety measures and why I mean, the map that Harold showed us in what’s happening in Boulder County in comparison to what’s happening to communities that aren’t following these safety precautions. There’s a huge difference. So we’re seeing now data that supports following these safety measures. Some, maybe that would be if they have to complete an online course and prove that they’ve done those hours or that time to kind of make up the difference. I don’t know if there’s my battery’s running low. I, you know, just a possibility like that to kind of help get the education out there as well. Sure.
You have to talk to the judge. Yeah, James. So they aren’t counsel Eugene Bay City Attorney here. So there are
for violation of the public health order, fined up to $1,000.
having the judicial branch reporter that business close and then that judicial order would be enforced by
local law enforcement.
I think the the other answer to is in and we’re, we’re broad and vague when we give these answers, but I think that’s because each individual situation has its own particular nuance. Do it. And that then start sending down different paths based on what we’re actually dealing with at that point in time. And so they do have all these processes and they’re in our department understands that these processes are there, and they’re moving through just steps as they get there in order to take the most appropriate action. We’ve all seen other things that have been on the news that are, you know, that have created other challenges and on the excessive side of this, and so what we’re trying to do is balance both of those issues as we’re moving forward.
Is there one more question and then I’m done? Um, so is there any kind of I think about like when OSHA we have to in our place of business, we have to put all the safety precautions posted. Is there any way that we can communicate with business are with apartment complexes? Have them post something in their community center or in their area where residents can see these are you know what stay at home means this is you know practicing social distance have those things in place so people could see that because I’m also hearing there’s a little bit of confusion Well, can we go out with our master? Can we do we have to always go out and with our masks, and so it kind of goes back and forth. It seems like there might be some confusion. I’m trying to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Um, so yes, there’s confusion. I mean, they’re still getting a fair amount of calls into the call line. Regarding specifics. b we will push this into two venues in terms of the posting piece one, we will push this into the Boulder County Health Department so they can be aware of this issue. into We will also we have our landlord group that really managed by Susan and Carmen and our neighborhood service versus group and so we’ll chat with them as well on this issue. A lot, we’ll take both venues and we’ll figure out the best course of action. And this is good information. I have not I mean, we haven’t heard about it, or I haven’t personally heard about it. So, I mean, this is a good input into us so we can start tracking these issues now.
I don’t see it I guess, I guess, just to chime in the somebody mentioned one of the consequences just to provide my traditional, you know, appreciated CounterPoint. The some of the consequences can be severe for the city. You know, there was a gentleman who is currently arrested over in Brighton
city backtracked almost a minute.
very real threat from a mess. perspective, he still have, you know, rights. And so I would, I would just, I’d like to remind city staff, I have no concerns with our ours, our police and our staff, but it’s still become an issue. I get frequent calls throughout the day, on all kinds of topic, all kinds of topics. One of the topics is I’m scared, because my neighbors are not practicing social distancing. that they’ll point out picnics, they’ll point out gatherings. And they’ll want to know, like, you guys are hearing well, who do I call? And a lot of times,
they’re people that all live together. Within the same bubble, you know, six feet away from my three boys or six feet away from my three boys, when we’re always together. It doesn’t really matter. And then, the other thing is when you see someone, I mean, I’ve talked in to a lot of people who are going literally nuts, they’re, they’re not dealing well with this. Well, they’re in social isolation. They live by themselves. One woman called from Denver, screamed at me about the blue wave that’s coming in about 30 seconds after that. She started crying and talking to me about how she was lonely and didn’t know what to do. And
don’t know why she called me. But
I always assumed when I see people out and about that they’re not rebels. A lot of people are just dealing with some type of isolation and mental illness that it comes down to do something or else do something worse. So this whole situation just is is unfortunate, but we’ll get through it. So Harold, any advice anything you guys can do? It’s much appreciate it. Just let us know. Okay.
Yep, we’ll do that.
Alright, so let’s move on. Anybody else? Just remember Pat.
Thank you very badly. I just want to Harold you had mentioned that there are two buckets to this. hares act, one of them is business. The other is individual. Could you highlight just briefly, who is the contact person for the individual renters, people who can’t make your monthly mortgage?
evictions etc with
so let me pull up
we have different contacts for that. No, because you have different issues and so if you are going to take you all share my screen again. And we’re in the process of revamping this. Just I know they’re constantly working on this website.
I’m going to share my screen. But if you go here, I’m going to
drop it down. I’ve got a window on mine, so I’m going to move it. So how, how to get help. So if you go here on the website
and Boulder County resources that were collectively involved in that in terms of work.
If you have access to food, you know, we point out our center Meals on Wheels, you can see the list programs for seniors have that individuals experiencing homelessness, income assistance, resources for renters and homes. And so you can see that information and where we have folks call and then housing retention and where they can link in and find that information. Generally, if we can bring that into our But I generally say is athey Karen? Herman in that group? Okay, then we can start pointing into the appropriate direction and where folks need to go. And again, it’s general but again, each individual has their own circumstances and for dealing with as you can see, there’s many different venues where we bring folks in, point them to the appropriate location.
Today, okay, good. Glenn.
Is that website longmont.org slash COVID-19. Is that the website?
Yeah. So if you if you go in, I’ll just walk you I’ll walk everyone through this right now since it’s on screen if you go to the city’s site, okay. And you can click on this, this, your thing it’ll take you do and
that’s in that location.
The Coronavirus image or the on the left. Okay, and I’ve got a lot of people streaming in my household right now so it is wearing my router out and so you can see up here at the top how to get help, how can I help?
access to city services and resources, finding business resources and go in there and that points everyone to the appropriate location. Well tell Council is this website here constantly evolving as new things are developing. And we’re everywhere I went to as to how to get help.
Thank you very much,
All right. Anything else?
All right, this next one is actually I rarely put something on the agenda but this is something I put on a study session item five a partial we’ll do an okay. We need to take a quick break. only been going for an hour Alright, so this is I was contacted by a group that was basically asking us to keep in mind or change some, some issues about you know, who can own marijuana dispensaries so that’s why it’s here and Harold have a presentation on this
so it’s dawn Eugene and Tim,
We don’t actually have a presentation we put the council communication together just a few points to review. First, can you hear me?
Okay? Yeah, we can hear you just fine. Done. Good.
Okay, so Tim Hall has joined me Don kitana City Clerk and then Tim Hall from the city attorney’s office is also on the call. So these code changes that we’re bringing forth tonight really are some updates and some cleanup while we’re there, as well as the requested changes to allow For publicly traded companies, y’all remember in 2018, we lifted the ban bomb right now has four operators operating marijuana retail stores. The green solution was the last of the four to open because their location had some challenges with regard to floodplain and building issues, as they opened in late 2019. In January 2020, as noted by the public comments from Mr. speidel of the green solution, House bill passed that allowed for publicly traded companies in statute. And so the green solution began contacting you all as well as us about what could they do to reach this next next level for their business. And then on February 25, Mayor, you gave us direction to bring this back. And so, here we are. So really tonight we are looking for kind of two pieces of direction directions. If you’d like us to bring back the proposed changes to next week’s regular session, that’s one part of the question. And then we have a couple future questions for you. So with the two kinds of changes that are on the plate, as ordinance changes for next week, we’d be happy to take any questions about the cleanup items and we marked those for you as well as the ownership changes that were put in your packet. Otherwise, we don’t really have a presentation.
My understanding is it’s just going to follow the state for the most part, Correct.
Correct. The in terms of ownership, yes.
Greg, Councilmember Christiansen.
Susan, is there any way we can unmute Councilmember crisp. There she is.
I’m just Oh, okay.
Okay. I, uh,
one of the things about the state legalization of marijuana is that every city is allowed to make its own decision about this. And I was the one who brought this forward in the first place, because it seemed to me. Well, I won’t go into that. But anyway, I do think it’s good to legalize marijuana as the state and across the United States, however, I that said, I think that people need to be regulated. So I have two questions. If we did this, first of all, I was told by green solutions in one of their many asked me that they are already regulated. By the SEC, want to know if that’s true? Because to me, there’s a grave danger in allowing them to, to have allowing us to have people come in who are multinationals, and we don’t get to fingerprint them or do background checks because it makes it difficult for them to do business. That isn’t my concern. My concern is to protect the people of the city. So are they actually regulated and checked on by the SEC? That’s one question and the other is his green solutions are located in the city of Longmont or are they in a county enclave?
I guess this is Dreyer badly.
Yeah. Mayor Bagley, Councilmember Christiansen good questions. I’ll take the second one first, and I’m going to look to Tim maybe for some help with the first one Green solution is in fact, in city limits. They’re in the old VFW building on South Main. So yes, they are one of our licensees. With regard to your question about sec regulation. I don’t know that as much about it. I don’t know if Tim does.
Yeah, I do know about that, actually. So they wouldn’t be regulated by the SEC. It kind of depends on where that publicly traded. Business is located MERS created. A number of them are traded on the Canadian market. One of the main markets, but you You’re right, they are regulated by the SEC. They have pretty stringent financial background checks that they have to do and entation it’s possible that this actually is a little bit more financial documentation. When they do that by the SEC then we have right as a sole proprietor or just an owner of their business.
Okay, my my the state why no went through this checking on their regulation. My concern is okay the Canadians we always think that the Canadians are just better than we are. But that doesn’t necessarily that’s not necessarily true. And so what is to prevent a cartel from anywhere in the world kind of using this to launder money or to gain a whole stranglehold on various marijuana businesses in the country and just use various local guys to be the front face of this while behind the scenes they’re doing something nefarious? That’s just my my paranoid fantasy that I don’t want to have happen in Longmont. I think we have four businesses and I think they do a good job and but I I also do see how a mom and pop shops mom and pop pop shops are kind of going the way of the dodo because it’s really they really do not make a pile of money they really do not it’s very difficult for them because of the banking situation and I understand why they want to do this it gives them a little more leeway it gives them a feasible way to move forward and still be involved with the business they started. Um, so what can you tell me about why my paranoid fantasy can happen? And
would say i one level is perhaps impossible to make sure what you described never happens. situation and some of talk I’ve heard it sounds like maybe that does happen sometimes. Under the current or under the previous, pretty publicly traded companies law. And the other thing I would say, the new, the new rules were pretty thoughtfully done. To address this issue in particular, is pretty rigorous. Background checks that you have to do if you are an owner of greater than 10. of marijuana company required to submit a request for binding and suitability, which is the acceptance of fingerprints. And so, really the people who aren’t looking being looked at are people who you know, 1% of the business who own a 401k that owns this and if you are going to be in a position where you actually control that business,
required to submit a finding of submit suitability
Yeah, okay. I think we have to kind of have some faith in the sec will function correctly. All right. I understand.
Thank you very badly. So I also had some of the questions that Councilman Christiansen Christensen had. So I called up a co signer of this bill, who happened to be Jonathan singer, and asked him some of these questions. And the one about a that Polly had about nefarious people or cartels, I asked, I asked him that and he said that there’s a series of rigorous checks that is done by the state and the make sure that the dollars coming into the dispensary are legitimate and they look at that very closely. The other reason that I hadn’t thought of was that and what turned john because he said that he actually voted against this the first time it came around. And then the second time he looked at it a bit differently. One of the problems with a startup or dispensary’s is that there is no bank that will loan to you. So some of the startup money that they want, it comes from public funding, they need to get an investor in order to get their business started. So if we’re looking just at small business startups, that’s what really sold him because I do have a question for Dan. We have it is our local control our local
codes, etc. that we put in for marijuana. Will they still be intact will they still have to comply with those even though it’s a publicly traded company. Do we have that control?
The question for me
here? Yes, yeah.
Yeah. So we try to be as narrowly focused with our changes as possible. So what we did is when looking at the code Previously, we thought that the big obstacle for publicly traded companies was that we required fingerprinting and background checks for all owners of the business. And so if you bought a single share of this publicly traded company, you’d have to submit a background check and fingerprinting. And you’d have to do that before buying your single share. And so it wasn’t practically feasible. So we narrowly tailored this change to focus mostly on when the state requires you to do a background check. That’s when we’re requiring you to do a background check. Otherwise, the rest of the changes are just to reflect that the The state has collapsed its medical marijuana code and its retail marijuana code into a single code with a single set of rules. And so that’s just updating the changes to reflect that. Otherwise, it’s pretty narrow. We try to be as narrow as
developers. So when does the State require a background checks and fingerprints?
Is there some parameter or policy?
There is a policy there is an administrative rule, I have it up. It’s probably going to be too long for me to just read out. When put into a single word document, it’s about four pages single spaced, but it’s administrative rule two dash 235. And the long and short of it when we’re looking at a publicly traded company is are you owed are 10% or more of that publicly traded company? Or are you in some sort of medical jury opposition, see this see the CEO, the CFO, those people need to submit to these background checks. There’s also some complications around well what happens when another entity owns 10% or more and it goes into into conversation about that. And then there is some other regulations around if you are a passive interest in indirect beneficiary, who suddenly finds themselves with 30%. In so it is a bit complicated. Done, I sent you that roll Did that make in the packet?
I did include that in the packet what you sent me Yes. about controlling beneficial owners. Yes, it was an attraction.
That was the one with the little diagram in side of it.
And that goes into when, when it triggers a requirement for a finding of suitability.
so Dan, my question to you is, if we said okay to this if we gave direction for staff to go forward, um, do you feel comfortable with that our city is protected under state law and our local control
with these dispensaries
as an attorney.
That’s for you, Tim.
Yeah, I was
thinking of nevermind, Tim.
Yeah, I did. I did replace Dan.
Sitting in his office. So that’s, that’s fair.
That’s a bit of a policy decision. And so I don’t want to step into that role. Okay. Much I will say that the rules were thoughtfully done. They were, in fact, just to clarify a little bit. This This law was passed mid year 2019. And then they spent the rest of the year
meetings and developing these these rules around it, and so like six months that they took developing rules, so it only came into effect January has actually passed no last session. So thoughtfully done. But otherwise, it’s a bit of a policy decision.
Okay. I didn’t want to put you on the spot, but I kind of did. Thank you.
We appreciate you not making policy decisions. I know multiple people are thinking that Councilmember Martin
Thank you Mayor Bagley.
So I reviewed this the red line that at a lot of Length of them sort of lost track of what the council direction was or what the staff direction was. So can we review that? Is this Do we need to give direction to go forward? Or if we don’t raise any objections or call for any changes? Does it just come back to us at a subsequent regular meeting and we can vote on it then?
Mayor Bagley, Councilmember Martin Yes, our plan was proposed
was to make to
and to allow you to chance to weigh in on the policy decision of whether or not to allow a publicly traded company. If you’re comfortable. Tim is already working on an ordinance so that we can be ready to get that in the packet for tomorrow to get it out to you. So we wanted to give you a chance to weigh the options before just presenting you with an ordinance.
Okay, so then if the ordinance is in progress, and we’ve got at least a week to Think about it, then we can take this presentation or this verbal presentation with us and we still have a week to ask questions.
Is that correct?
That’s accurate. we’d bring it back on consent next week on the fourth out the 14th. certainly have a chance to make ask questions. Wake up mayor. Ask questions and and make any amendments. Okay.
Thank you. I’m satisfied them.
Paulie, we can’t hear you. You’re not you’re there you go.
Oh, can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you. All right.
I would move that we approve the amendments as recommended to bring Fourth. Do I have a second? Second.
So has been moved by Councilmember Christiansen and seconded by me and also Dr. Waters. But let’s go ahead and all in favor say aye. Raise your hand. Aye. Opposed Raise your hand. All right, the motion passes unanimously. All right, that said, let’s move on to mayor and council comments.
Mayor Bagley, sorry if I might interrupt before we move on. We also wanted direction if council would like us to bring back legislation to allow for delivery. You all asked us about that last week. We wouldn’t have that for next week. But for a future meeting, but we wanted that direction. We also had to see that the plant counts allowed for medical marijuana. We are now out of sync the statute, wondered if you’d like us to bring that back as well. So we’d also like feedback on those if you’d like to give us feedback.
Can you hear me? I can’t hear you.
All right. And
I said, Let’s go with Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez. Okay, we’ll go back then we’ll go with Councilmember Christiansen and then we’ll go with Councilmember Martin.
Thank you Mary Bagley, I think as it was noted in the packet as well, as I think, at least mentioned previously mentioned just a few minutes ago, that we’d expect a large amount of public involvement in the questions regarding a number of plants as well as delivery, medical or recreation which is slated for 2021. So I would move that we table that until we can have more robust public participation in the future.
all right, it’s been moved and seconded by has been moved by Mayor Pro Tem It was seconded by Dr. Waters. All in favor say aye.
Aye. Aye. Raise your hands.
We didn’t have any
discussion. We didn’t
direction. Let’s discuss. Anyone want to say anything?
But why? No, just kidding.
All right. So I said Councilmember Christianson, do you still want to say something? You were in the queue?
Nevermind. All right, Councilmember Martin, and then Councilmember Peck.
while I agree with Councilmember Rodriguez on the matter of the number of plants and regularizing that with the state and yada yada to seeing that with the stay at home order of the matter of delivery is something different, because first of all, it’s a medical thing for some people. It’s They can’t necessarily get to the dispensary. And the other thing is that even a lot of people who didn’t bother to get a dispensary card after a recreational use was legalized, they’re essentially using recreational products for medicinal purposes. And so they’re in sort of the same state. And it’s not that different than the exception that has been made for delivering alcohol. So I wonder if we shouldn’t at least put together a quick provisional ordinance that maybe we could reconsider, when the covered emergency is is is over, but to allow temporary deliveries during the during the governor state home order, which is likely to go on long enough to make it worthwhile for us to do it.
Councilman Thank you.
Thank you Mayor Bagley. Actually, I would like to I know that there’s a motion on the floor but I would actually like to split this into two different votes we vote on the plant issue and and what we want to do with that table it or move it and the delivery system make these two separate votes because I would table the plant, but I want to vote on the delivery system. So how do I do that? We already have a motion on the table.
It’s it’s actually uh, you know, I believe you’re making a point order that Yeah, there’s actually two issues in the same motion. So what we’ll do is take it one at a time and say, Mayor Pro Tem, which one do you want to take first?
See it. Thank you very badly, I believe it probably pertinent to the easy one on plants first.
All right. So does anyone have any? I see, I see I see the hands. So does anyone have any comments on the plant? Most of them if the motion were only regarding plants did I see let’s go with Councillor Martin then we’ll go with Councilmember Christiansen.
I was just gonna
just trying to second the motion for plants only.
So seconded Councilmember Christiansen
I would like to put off the issue of plants until a later date when as Councilman Rodriguez said, we have more public input.
Is there any other discussion regarding tabling the issue of plants, number of plants, etc. All right. All in favor say aye.
All opposed say nay. I saw Councilmember Christiansen I got counted as an aye nay. All right, the motion passes unanimously. Let’s go ahead and take the second motion which was
Kazmir pack the issue of timing.
So I’m assuming Councilmember Martin, you want to second that as well.
All right. It’s been moved and seconded. Let’s talk about this. Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez, it’s got the floor.
Thank you very badly.
Just wanted to point out I know it was somewhat mentioned by Councilmember Martin that folks that do not have medical cards, but are using recreational cannabis for medical usage, would possibly need the service to but are ineligible to do so until 2021 for the house bill, and so that would not actually help them in any any substantive manner. Outside of that. I’m not adverse to a provisional allowance during the COVID epidemic for medical delivery. I just was sensitive to the fact that we are trying to be prudent with issues you bring before Council and as far as public input is concerned, and that was my real concern with the matter.
Lots of hands are up as Councilmember Iago fairing your hand went up before and then it didn’t go up again. So did you have something to add?
So I just I was wanting to concur with what Councilmember Martin had said about coming together with a provisional piece, at least getting us through the COVID crisis. And then we can look at something more long term. So that was all I wanted to contribute to that piece.
All right, dark waters.
makes me really ugly. So my understanding is
that those without a medical card would not be eligible for deliveries. That is it. Case under the current law. So the event event is the case. My question is, what’s our obligation to regulate? Who actually participates in this and in a legal way, we leave that on the dispensary to say we will only deliver to a home. But we’re going to check somebody’s card, which now puts people in proximity to one another in ways that we’re not comfortable with. I’m not I’m not opposed to this idea. I’m a little concerned about how it gets regulated and who’s responsible to we risk to make certain that people abide by the law? That’s the question.
Mayor Bagley, Councilmember waters just if I may,
customers would not be able to participate in this if we did something provisional for medical merit. Wanna cardholder’s? That that regulation comes in in in January 1 2021. So you’re correct on that point. And I did want to say that there is quite a bit of information in state regulations about how to deliver. And we would look to that we have not done full research on that yet. Tim has done some and he is welcome to chime in on what the requirements are with delivery. We just weren’t prepared for that. But we’d be happy to bring all of that back.
To you, Tim, are you gonna say something?
Yeah, I did do some research. I haven’t done a deep dive because it wasn’t kind of teed up. I can tell you that. There are not a lot of jurisdictions that have done this. So there’s not a lot of homework that we can copy. So as far as I’m aware, only boulder allows delivery, and there’s only a One licensed delivery, one state licensed delivery business in the state.
Councilmember Christiansen and then Councilmember Martin.
What’s happening? You’re unmuting me and I’m unmuting me and then we repeat it. All right anyway.
you know, I think that liquor stores and at me, you know, people think, Oh, those crazy liquor stores will sell to anybody and same with marijuana but in truth, they are very careful about selling only to people who are legal because if they get in trouble they can have their license taken away. And from what I have seen and spoken to marijuana store owners. They really do have a very stringent record of Try to keep track of
medical marijuana differently from regular recreational marijuana, they’re taxed very differently. And the costs are very different. So they really do have those things in place. So I would just say that I am comfortable. Councilman waters with their ability to regulate themselves because they know that the repercussions if they do not are very, very severe. So I would be in support of us doing a provisional law provisional ability to do home delivery for medical marijuana.
Councillor Martin, I’m sorry, Doc, it’s counselor. She did this which means badly you forgot I was in the queue, which is right So Councilmember Martin and then Dr. Water. Sorry.
Yeah, I just wanted to ask whether we’re
what the analogy is between what the government governor did with alcohol delivery. And what we’re considering. Because we do have local statutes against even walking out with a, you know, a paper container of obtaining an alcoholic beverage out of out of a restaurant now, but for the duration of the emergency, we’re allowed to, you know, deliver mixed drinks to home with an order of food. So, what would be the difference between that and allowing for the duration of the of the emergency, delivering marijuana to anyone with over 21
I don’t know if that question was directed to me. And I don’t know that I have an answer other than the fact that you don’t have to differentiate between 121 year old and another 21 year old if you’re delivering a call, but you would between somebody with a card and without a card. But that’s not my concern. We just we just had a conversation about how we’re going to enforce a stay at home order. We heard a question from one council member about how we’re going to enforce this. And within heard in overview about what’s going to be civil and what’s going to be legal. We heard from Harold that we’re not seeing any fewer calls right now, even as we’re adding to calls in terms of enforcement with with a new set of expectations, and now we’re going to add another layer or dimension of enforcement. That is that they is kind of be the Wild West as far as it looks to me like in and if somebody wants me to vote to put one more set of obligations or responsibilities on our public safety folks, given everything that’s else is going on, without the kind of clarity or answers to the questions that would come up about how you differentiate, I simply am not going to do it. I just don’t think this is the time. I understand the concerns about medical marijuana and more people wanting to get access to that kind of treatment. But to do that right now with our Public Safety Department, as unclear at least as I am with what regulation looks like. Seems to me not to be a prudent move at this time.
Councillor Martin? Actually, let’s go with Councilmember Peck real quick only because she hasn’t spoken yet on this issue and then we’ll go back to you Marsha, as well.
I did intend my question to be answered and not by Councilmember waters so Oh,
okay. This Somebody want to answer the question Harold staff? I think we lost our attorney.
No, he’s here. Well,
Bagley, Councilmember Martin, Tim is also here as well. And he may be better poised to answer. Tim, you want to take a stab?
Sure. I’ll step in as far as I understood, I would move back to what Councilmember Rodriguez said is the state law currently does not allow retail marijuana to be delivered until 2021. And no executive order has attempted to change that. The current guidance that’s coming out of the marijuana enforcement division is that retail marijuana delivery will not happen till 2021. And so we there’s a state law that prohibits it. And so, as far as I can tell, if I’m answering your question, the reason why you can only do medical and not just anybody who’s over 21 is because state law prohibits retail marijuana being delivered.
And we couldn’t have a statutory protocol for checking, like having somebody all show their card through a window before leaving the delivery. And that could be defined by an ordinance correct.
May clarify your question just to make sure.
You’re asking if somebody drove up to a retail marijuana store and wanted to purchase without having personal contact, could they put up their card to a window?
I was actually suggesting that if they ordered it to be delivered, and when the delivery showed up, they could put their card to their own window, so that the delivery person would see it. And we could define that process in in our professional ordinance.
So, that’s similar to what boulder does boulder requires that you have designated that medical marijuana center as your primary caregiver previously, and they must have on hand all of your documentation, and then they will check your ID to the documentation that they had on file because they are your primary character.
Okay, thank you.
Don’t remember but
Tim, actually, when my husband was ill, I got a medical license in order for him to use marijuana. And we were then we had to get something from his primary caregiver to take to the dispensary and then we were on file with that dispensary. So to Tim’s question about who is going to enforce this the dispensary In fact, we’ll enforce it by when you call in your order to make sure that you are a patient of that dispensary. I personally don’t see how this is going to put any more onus on our police force, because they won’t really be enforcing this. So I think it’s a good idea. I just know from personal experience, that if this happened when my husband was incredibly ill, and we could not get that medical marijuana and we had to go back to opioids, it would have been disastrous for us. So this is really important to the population that uses medical marijuana. It’s It’s It’s important to get it out there. Just like you have CVS to delivery or targets, deliveries. Or Walgreens medical delivery. So for me this this is something that we should absolutely do, and I would be
voting for a provisional ordinance.
Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez.
Thank you very badly. This is a question for the attorney. As noted earlier, there’s only one jurisdiction being bolder that you mentioned and specifically, there’s only one dispensary is currently state licensed. Is that accurate?
To my knowledge that’s accurate. The state law requires that you prove that your local jurisdiction allows delivery before you can actually apply. And so I think that’s the stopping everything. Do we know the name of the dispensary that currently has that license in Boulder? Yes, if you give me one second, I can look it up. Okay.
So the point being is if that dispensary also exists as a as a nother entity here in Longmont that probably make their licensure easier because I already know how to go through those steps. But it’s obviously going to be a process for any of our for city licensed dispensary or city permanent dispensaries to get the state license and how much these different dispensaries want to go through that process is unclear at this time. And so it seems like the regulations are actually quite stringent as is the at the at the state licensure level for this specific delivery, as well as how they deal with medical users. And I don’t know if we have an answer yet, but
I do have an answer. It’s the dandelion and I did know that they were not one of our licenses.
Right, right. Yeah, I do know they’re not one of our licensees either. So it seems like not not sure how long the process Takes but it’s possible that we may be beyond a stay at home order by the time any potential dispensary could be granted a license or at the state level anyhow. So I’m not, again adverse to a provisional thing, as long as we define what that period of time is before we take up an actual allowance of delivery services within the city of lamarque. So as long as they’re prescriptive as far as whether it’s during the stay at home order, or whether it’s during the time that we’re not allowed to go to restaurants and bars, for instance, I’m not sure what that would entail, either. I mean, this is a pretty, I think, in depth conversation, and I think does require some public input as well. So I’m not quite sure where we’re at on
Kelly’s memory level fairing.
So, um, I was looking up so and this one, I guess, would be for chimps. The attorney, the town of superior they passed an ordinance. Is that? Is there a way that we can look and see how they roll that out and how they dealt with some of the issues we’re discussing right now.
If they have just passed an ordinance, we can look at the ordinance. I’m not I’m not aware that they have done that yet. But that’s mostly because I haven’t done a deep dive yet on this issue.
Okay, I can email you what I have. If you want to put your email in the chat
Although Yeah, I guess wouldn’t matter is the city email. You can say anything that goes in that chat box is public. So just everybody remember when you’re broadcasting everybody can see what you’re writing. All right, anything else there’s a motion on the table basically waiting to spend this issue as well. To table it correct.
So all in favor say aye.
To tell us but what is the I vote here?
The I vote is to table the issue of of timing until a later occasion. I mean, like the home delivery, etc. Not plants, but timing. So it was Councillor Martin second. I mean, I asked her for a second and she went like this. So I’m assuming she seconded it. So all in favor, raise your hands. And aye, aye.
Aye. All opposed say nay.
All right, Polly. You abstained. Right? Are you an aye or nay? Nay. All right, so the motion fails for two, three or three to four. with Mayor Pro Tem Rodriguez. Myself and Dr. Waters for and then Councilmember Martin, Councilmember Peck Councilmember Will Ferrell and Councilmember Christiansen against. So we will continue discussing that at the next meeting. Councillor Martin, you have another comment.
I just like to suggest that in our direction to continue discussing this at the next meeting, we should have allow the city attorney’s office to come back after a more thorough discussion of the state statutes. Say yeah, bring back an ordinance if you can to do it during the stay at home order, but if you can’t, then tell us and tell us why. Because I Well, I think this is important for many people. I do also understand that we this may be too complex and issue to address With everything else that the staff has to deal with. So, you know, let’s give it the college try, but let’s not make it and a central thing. The other thing that I wanted to ask is what the state of the law right now is, in terms of pickup orders of medicinal marijuana prescriptions. Can does does the card holder have to be the one who picks up the order to take away or or can it be anybody who is designated by a card holder?
Mayor Begley and Councilmember Martin just to answer, we hear you loud and clear. I think Tim and I will gather tomorrow and see what information we can gather in time, see if we can be ready for next Tuesday to have enough information or not. If not, we will bring that back as quickly as feasible. Tim’s time is obviously the harder one Manage at this point in the game. So I think we we’ve got that direction. We hear you on that. And they, in order to pick up orders, I believe it must be the card holder and perhaps a designated party, but they would have to show ID would have to be something in their in their record, I believe.
Yeah. So the question that I had obviously was was would it have worked for Bob Peck? And
if there was a designee in advance, it would,
I believe so I believe you could designate for this purpose, but again, everybody has to show their ID they have to be checked in in the metric system before anything is dispensed. Okay, thank you.
Thanks very badly. If we’re going to bring this back to the next meeting, it would it’s going to help me to be clear on what are the implications both on the in terms of regular regulations enforcement. So if I’m if I’m if I’m way off base, if our public safety folks say, look, this is a piece of cake, it’s not gonna, it’s not going to create a add to the growing serious responsibilities we’re expecting of them, especially the longer this state Omar goes on that I’d like to know that I’m if I, if I miss reading what the implications are number one. Number two, I’d like to have some idea of what the implications are in the in the city attorney’s office, because it’s one thing to do the cleanup. That was pretty straightforward. He’s feels like it’s a different beast in terms of drafting an ordinance. And I don’t know what’s on the plate for Eugene and Tim and his whole staff. But right now, in this period of time, given everything else sits on the plate of our top level city staff to expect if this is going to be this is going to take a fair amount of time and creativity to create And organs. I just have to wonder why is this I get there when you’re saying our mortar, we’d like to, you know, make it easy for people to get access. But the state licensing is an issue, I still would like to know that enforcement’s not going to be an issue. But Dad, this now at this time to the city attorney’s office, I just have to wonder, so I’d like to know what’s going to move off the agenda. If we’re going to add this to the agenda for the city attorney. You have to answer that now. But if we’re going to talk about it next week, I’d like to know the answers
in and unfortunately, we aren’t taking a vote and four of us, four of them, four of us decided to go forward. I was also however, just in general moving forward as we’re looking at issues whenever I stopped by the Emergency Operations Center. Harold’s always there. Um, I know that our I know that city staff right now is completely absorbed as they should be with the current situation. So We ask things of staff. Um, I will continue to ask Harold. And Eugene, is this going to put any pressure whatsoever on on YouTube?
mayor and council using a city attorney here. I think it’s unrealistic to get this item prepared for next week. The packet was supposed to go out today for next week. If you want quality work to be done, we need more time.
So if we were the motion was to move forward not to table we did not set a deadline. So if we were to ask you to impose if we were to ask you to impose a deadline that would give you ample room given the current emergency of our town in the nation, what was your what would your response be?
Want to think about it and get back to us on Tuesday?
We could do that, you know?
I’d say at the earliest April
- That gives us basically two weeks to work it up.
Or may 5. All right, well, why don’t why don’t we do this on Tuesday? Can you just let us know what your target date is? And then we can we can either accept or reject it, but I’ll give you a week to decide. But Councillor Martin?
Yeah, I think that’d be it’s even simpler than that. Since it becomes much less imperative when the stay at home order ends. So I don’t really see a need to put a deadline on it. You know, other than giving it the priority that we would give to something that we know is causing people suffering or has the potential to cause people suffering because it’s not in place, and it is only because of that, that I support looking at it at this time at all. You’ll be fairly daunted when you see my list of all of the things that I didn’t bring up
during the stay at home order, because it’s there.
But, you know, I think back into the feasibility of it, you know, do nothing more than the feasibility report for next week, unless it turns out to just fall out and be dead easy, but the whole request goes away if if the stay at home order is ended. I only expect that for a couple of months but
yeah, that that was gonna say that, as much as I’d like it to be lifted. We’ll just have to see cuz nobody knows. And right now as much as I would like to comply Immediately with the wishes of four of us, and have this done. I think it’s also just we’re hearing from the from Eugene, that it’s a little unrealistic. And, obviously, I mean, unprecedent unprecedented situation to use Councilmember Iago pairings words. And I just I just think they should be focused on that. But we’ll we’ll get an update next week. And we’ll, we’ll hear from you gmN. Councilmember Peck, so
I don’t think that there should be a deadline on this. I don’t remember especially asking for one. So, um, whatever staff puts is the deadline, or when they think they can bring it back to her that concern is good to me. I would like staff to set the precedent on when they can bring this back.
I do we have consensus on that. Anyone opposed that idea?
All right, Eugene, you have consensus to just Do it but in your own timeframe and keep us safe. Okay,
there. Yeah. What I was gonna say and part of I think, where do you Jeanne struggling is he just doesn’t know what questions we’re going to dump into the system. And and we dump questions in every day based on what we’re dealing with. I think that’s part of the struggle and timing and understanding what’s on the plate.
Well, that that I mean, I think the consensus view is do what you need to, including. I mean, obviously, if you’re getting asked constantly about constitutional issues and orders, and I can’t even imagine your life right now. So take that into account. You know that that? I mean, that takes that’s first in line at all times. And I think I speak for counsel on that. So
all right there, we got direction.
All right. Cool. All right. Let’s go ahead and move on to council comments.
All right, we’ll just take it one at a time and screen left to right. As my screen appears we’ll go with Councilmember Christiansen
says this is directed to the people of Longmont. I implore you to practice physical distancing. And I implore you to cover your faces. These are the two things that people have done from the pandemic of 1918, in which my grandfather died. to any of if you look, if you look around the world, these are the two practices everyone is doing and they work where people don’t do these. We have skyrocketing problems we can only deal with What we have we have a an appalling lack of preparation for this we have an appalling lack of ventilators of personal protective equipment of tests. We can’t individually and in Longmont deal with that. But what we can have control over is the amount of interaction we have with other people. And the universal masking which is not going to help you from getting it, but it will keep you from spreading it. since none of us know whether we have it or not. We should all presume that we may be carrying some variation of it and people out there who have just been going through cancer treatments or have diabetes or have any number of things that compromise their respiratory systems or their immunity. This is what we’re doing it cover your face. Universal masking is what people have been doing all over Asia. And it works. Please, please do this and parents, please explain to your teenagers even though of course that is a useless way but as teenagers will never never listened to us because what the hell would we but please explain that they are not immune to this. Everyone can get this. And we have to do this for a little bit longer. It’s frustrating, but it’s what we have to do. So, this will end and we will or we will, we will survive this. But you have to do this for a while long. Or we will never be able to get a handle on this. So I just plead with you. You can make a mask there’s a no fault no so mask online that you can make for yourself. A couple of rubber bands and a cloth scarf. That’s okay. If you Put a coffee filter in it. There are many, many things that you can do. And what I have been most heartened by is the amount of the number of people who are doing all kinds of things, each in their own weird way to contribute and to help us be a better and a stronger community. So please keep with that, consider going out at eight o’clock at night every night and howling at the moon because it’s one way of showing solidarity. Thanks.
All right, good comments. Thank you, Councilmember. Oh, what was going to go left to right, but everything switched. We’ll go with Dr. Waters.
Thanks, Mary Bagley. This afternoon we all got a draft of a letter that I suppose Sandy cedar drafted yet to the governor and legislators reflecting direction we gave last week to express our support Working Families. Sandy in that, in her correspondence with us asked if there was any guidance we wanted to provide. Personally I look at it and think she did a terrific job or whoever drafted it if it wasn’t Sandy. And, and I’d like for us to, for whatever however we need to do it to say, Please proceed. I don’t know Mayor Bagley if you would sign this on our behalf, it’s going to be probably possible for us to all get into put signatures on it, but it’s it’s from respectfully from the Longmont City Council. It’s american sign that and we could get it moving. I think at least it closes the loop in expressing our our support and concerns for our working families.
Anybody opposed to me signing that? Speak up now. All right, we have consensus. So can we just get that on my desk and I’ll sign it as soon as possible.
All right. Cool. That it not All right.
Mayor Pro Tem with your hand up. All right, Councillor Martin was your hand up.
Councillor Peck was your band up.
I just want to give a shout out to my friend who has an online clothing company she is donating what she calls gators, which scares wear around their neck and they pull up over their mouth and nose. He is donating those to the homeless shelters for the homeless to use and where since they don’t have access to mass. And I also want to give a shout out to help for providing day shelters at faith Baptist in the journey. Because if you have to shelter in place, you can’t do that unless you have a place to shelter. So during this virus, they’re going to be using back and I think that it’s just a great Great response, a great action on the part of our community to come together and make sure that we’re taking care of everybody. Thank you.
If you can read lips that was Councilmember Iago fairing
so can you hear me now? Okay. So a couple of things I wanted to point out, you know, with school being closed, a lot of our the cases even though the cases of reporting for child abuse and neglect have gone down, it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. So, you know, be mindful of your neighbors check in on one another. The National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-7233 is a good place to call for support, as well as the Colorado child abuse and neglect hotline. 1844 SEO for kids, and also to your own mental health and the mental health of your families. Colorado crisis services.org is a good resource, also Mental Health Partners, the nhp colorado.org, and Mental Health Colorado I get a lot of information and resources from them. They’re a great, great organization. And that’s Mental Health Colorado. So take care of yourselves.
And that’s what I have to say tonight.
I just want to thank you. I just wanted to say that just remind everybody who’s watching that none of us have ever been in an elected office or position during a pandemic of this nature before and all I know is that we’re facing unimaginable issues. Meaning a year ago, none of us expected anything like this could be happening. We’re dealing with the virus, medical supply shortages, hospital shortages. We’re dealing with even worse. We’re dealing with the fear and the possibility of such shortages. So we don’t know exactly what’s coming down the road. We’re dealing with economic loss, we’re dealing with homelessness, we’re dealing with all the health consequences of the economic impacts. And so is where on one hand we’ve got a lot of issues we’re dealing with, but I just want to express my gratitude to staff. I alluded the Harold’s always in there so Sandy cedar so so as I always see deputy commander sadder and, and, you know, I just look at the staff and I remember the flooding back in 2013. And was so impressed with that and that that only lasted, I mean a couple of days and then the cleanup started, but being in such a heightened state of emergency Dealing with constantly changing issues and emotion and fear and demands and lack of resources. Just want to say how impressed I’ve been Harold. It’s your demeanor, your dedication, your cool head. And we’re lucky to have you. So what that translates into what all that translates to, for me, as I’m looking at your staff is, as we struggle, and we debate, and we try to get our heads around all the issues that we’re going to be facing. On one hand, we’re going to have to confront those brutal facts. But on the other hand, I just have an unwavering faith that that we’re going to get through this just fine. And so it’s just gonna take a little effort, a lot of effort, but just but we know the world is on your shoulders, and we just really appreciate your efforts. That’s all I wanted to say.
So do you have the resources from us that you need Harold
I did. We’re going to be reaching out to you for some communications or elected officials and regarding some of these programs, so I just appreciate council support. Thanks for the words, again, great folks all over the organization. It’s in times like this, it’s actually easier to move through it when you have great all over the place. And I just want to say there’s folks all over doing phenomenal work, from parks employees in the water employees and public safety employees who are just continuing to do what they do just more attitude and having to be cautious or mindful of a lot of things. So, reorganization and as I’ve said, as we run through this, it’s at the forefront of my mind on a daily basis.
We’ll just know we love you, and we support you, Nathan.
All right, thanks. We’ll do that.
All right. So speaking of which, you got anything to say any managerial, last minute words?
No comments. Mayor Council. There. We’ll be communicating with you as things change.
Alright. Eugene, anything else from you? Know, comments, Mayor.
Great. Then we are adjourned. We’ll go over and we’ll meet at the we’re going out to eat after this right now. Yeah. All right. Well, we’ll all the first first night out. I will pay whenever that is and I look forward to it. So all right, We’re adjourned, guys. Thanks.