Longmont Housing and Human Services Advisory Board – March 12, 2020

To listen to the meeting alongside a transcript, please visit: https://otter.ai/s/6hYTUIylSNGOdeRrKLiueQ

For a transcript of the meeting, please read below:

Welcome everybody.

Public invited

or any public? No? No public. Okay. Then the minutes from the last meeting were distributed before the meeting. Are there any changes to the minutes? Anybody has

without any changes? Is there a motion to approve?

I move to approve.

The grant steps it on the second. Okay. All in favor, aye. Okay, minutes are approved.

And before we go into our next agenda item, I just wanted to thank Madeline for

The invitations to all of the

activities I was able to make the one in Silver Creek. It was really wonderful.

Thank you for coming. I was able to go to the one at second Baptist. That was great.

Thank you. Thank you for coming. I appreciate that.

Okay, so let’s move on to agenda item four, we designate permanent posting location for the 2020 housing human service advisory board agendas. Now that construction is complete is the West entrance it was it was

besides council chambers, it’s totally not besides that last. No, no.

There’s more.

But so So just to clarify, so what we can do now is to go back to the official posting place if you so choose, which would be at the

West entrance to the mall area now that it is back open and it has been on the night turns. Okay.

So let’s do this. Let’s first Is there anybody who would like to see it relocated back to the west entrance? And if so let’s make a motion that we we designate the permanent posting location to this West entrance. Thank you. Is there a second? Second? Okay. Now, any discussion on whether that is a good idea or not?

Whereas Western interests, so one of

the one that we could come in, up to a year and a half ago Oh, yeah. The goose is the goose. Okay. Yeah. The goose and that’s right. Yeah.

Okay, yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Journey concern that moving it. They’re sort of in the middle of the year.

It’s gonna be confusing since not everyone knows that you can now enter there

we’ve been posting it

the other the door by the library, right? Yes.

And for the past many years it’s always been a Western so yeah so I think could we have just a note sign there saying for agendas, please see the West entrance just so I think there is some direction that well I would think that if you keep it posted, I mean, if you change it to the west entrance for a couple of months, we can certainly


that we can make that short period

forward in that dress for you. We don’t

we just might, you know, just put put it up just for a minute so that if that works, okay, sir.

Okay, any other discussion? Okay, then let’s go ahead and vote on

relocating the agenda to the Western trends All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Okay, we have relocation for the permanent housing, permanent posting location.

All right, on to agenda item five, reviewing the 2019, CD Dbg Performance Report. And I believe everybody did receive that report in their packet. So you’re gonna walk us through that as well. All right. Yeah, sure. All right. So this is a requirement of the Community Development Block Grant Program or CDBG program and then we can attack on the affordable housing program and Home program as we have received funds in that current year.

To give an update. So this goes out to the public and for comments. It’s actually out right now for public comment. A 30 day notice 30 day period for public comment council will have a public hearing on March 17, which is next Tuesday, and getting a little sneak preview before they see it. And

it is due to head by March 31. So we have to submit it. So I will go and we are

going to be clear that way you’re about to show us what’s not correct. Just finished.

So the primary program that we operate with CDBG funds is our housing rehab program. And that’s made up of four different programs, the general rehab program, architectural barrier removal, mobile home repair program and emergency grants. So

On the general rehab program, we make loans which are either deferred until a home sells or is refinanced. Or sometimes there’ll be payment loan if the incomes of the homeowners are above 50% of area median income, to help improve the home, and it’s prioritized to address code violations, health safety issues, make energy efficiency improvements, and then other things that the homeowner might want to have done. The maximum amount that can be borrowed is $25,000. And in 2019, we spent a total of $140,865 on this program, we assisted seven households at an average cost of $20,143.

And this just shows a couple of the improvements. So on this particular home, we did some kitchen work that floors

We’re also really bad as you can see, whatever that is, right.

And so we put in new

Well, it’s like laminate, laminate, thank you, I skip

that anymore.

So and there was other improvements that were made to this home as well. And then also, here’s just shows another home, it’s the same home. We recited it put on a new roof. They had some porch improvements and some interior improvements as well. So just to give you kind of an idea

on the mobile home repair program, we provide grants to low moderate income home mobile home owners, to help them keep their homes safe and to prolong the useful life of the mobile home. We spent a total of $126,600 on this program in 2019. We

did a lot of hot water furnace replacements and mobile homes, a lot of window replacements, which makes it more energy efficient roof repairs and weatherization updates. We assisted 17 households in 2019 at an average cost of 7400, just under 74.

And then on the architectural barrier removal program, this can be a grant or loan to low income homeowners or to renters. To make the home accessible for the occupants.

We did do things like upgrading or do installing Ada toilets, ramps. We do a lot of tab conversions to walk in showers or rolling showers. And we also do can do flooring if there’s tripping hazards for folks in

walkers etc. And also we do a lot of these to help seniors that are they may not have as formal disability

But to keep them in their home

13 households were assisted this year at an average cost of about 4700 and a total of 61. Buy if I didn’t say that already was spent on this program.

And then on the emergency grant program, this is where we can go in one time and do a grant for a low moderate income homeowner to make repairs that are a health and safety hazard, or serious or immediate threat to their their safety. We spent a total of

$1,000 on this. We did hot water and furnace replacements, electrical repairs, and some water and sewer issues for

six households were assisted in an average cost of 1300.

So in total rehab program assistance, we spent over 380,043 households were assisted, if you add up all the ones right

just talked about it adds up to more than 43 because people can’t get more than one grant or type of assistance at one time. So the average cost was about 80 $800. For those 43 households that were assisted, this is a decrease in volume from 2018. We actually spent 455,000. In 2018. We assisted slightly more households 40 at a slightly lower average cost than that in 2018.

We are still struggling with having sufficient contractors number of contractors to bid on the job, which is slowing us down. It takes jobs longer to be completed. And we have to have multiple bids for each job. We keep trying to reach out we put all of our bids on the state’s bidding website and direct folks there. We’re trying to get to try and do here in 2020 and outreach to all of the licensed contractors. The city has on

I’ll see if we can whittle this down a little bit. So obviously Home Builders aren’t going to want to do this, that would be a waste. But trying to figure out if there’s some way we can

try and increase the pool that we have.

You may ask questions. So the city of Longmont, your staff hires and manages the contract. These projects have given that it’s harder to find contractors, I would have expected the price to go up on average, just because they charge more because there’s fewer of them. So the nature of the repairs changing or what your average price for 2019 is smaller than 2018. I think probably if I went back and looked, there might be fewer, or there might have been more general recaps that were done in 2018. Much higher costs, is my guess.

But we also so when we go into a job and look at what needs to be done. We do a constant

estimate, and then the bids have to be within 15%. They can’t go more than 15% over that cost estimate. So that’s also sometimes why we have to rebid it.

If something’s out of whack, sometimes we have to go back and take things off. Sorry, you can’t do this. It’s no, you really want your forecast three plays that we have to focus on this in order to get it done. cost estimate that kind of thing as well. So

I have a

sort of along the same lines, do you are you?

I don’t know if you know, this with the contractors in the city if we’re seeing if we’ve seen an increase or decrease in like permits filed. So if we are seeing sort of these bids for these going down? Is that because contractors are busy enough with other things that they’re not wanting to bid through the city or is there some Is there any outreach to determine sort of like, why a contractor might not be bidding on some of these projects?

I mean, I think when we’ve looked at before it’s been because

we lost a lot of construction workers in the recession. They haven’t come back. It may be starting to but wages are high with the, with the floods as well, maybe

people who were the main contractors have found other things to do. And it’s much more

financially beneficial to do rehab on a higher income homeowners home and direct when you don’t have to bid it for a while. I mean, you might have to bid it but you don’t have all the other federal requirements that we have, they have to register for a DUNS number, which can take some time. You have to be licensed, they, you know, there’s all kinds of requirements, they have insurance, etc, which hopefully, regular folks are doing that as well. Sure.

But yeah, it’s just been, it’s just been titled. Is there a way you can advertise?

To do contractors to let them know that

that’s out there. I mean, there might be new people that come in that aren’t aware that they could go to the city and figure that out. Or, I mean, is there a way we could advertise for contractors?

Yes, we can put an ad in the paper or something like that, or we can

use social media or the website or something. We haven’t found that to be successful in the past, but obviously we could. We could try just curious. Yeah. Yeah. Usually folks who are interested in doing the word are

pretty hooked in with like, the fitness services that I talked about it the state, or they don’t want that level. They don’t want you. You’re more on the Craigslist, home advisors, that kind of thing.

And they don’t want the additional federal responsibilities that are the rules and regulations.

I have another question I have.

We, we obviously helped more households in 2019. Did you find that there were a lot that because we couldn’t get bids or anything like that, that we had to turn down for these grants or loans to be able to do work that they that they thought needed was needed?

Yes. So we did have a couple that I’m trying to think maybe three last year, that we tried multiple times to get their their work and didn’t get any sufficient bids. And so they chose to not move forward and figure out a different way to go. critical work decided not to have the work done. They can reapply at any time or they can reactivate their application at any time. Yeah, we did have that we don’t really advertise the program is mostly word of mouth so that we don’t generate more interest than what we can. We can do. But we are also trying to grow the program and

I was gonna say three I need three out of, you know, 46 seems like a relatively low rate that we’re not meeting the need that’s coming in. But obviously there’s probably need that we’re not seeing if we’re not advertising the program. Okay. That’s helpful to know. Thank you.

Okay, so then the other things that we funded in 2019 was a grant to the Boulder County housing counseling program. In the amount of 50,000. They actually spent a little bit less 47 five 280 residents use their programs which include classes, as well as required one on one counseling sessions when somebody is going to get into downpayment assistance loan or rehab loan or want to refinance their house or have some kind of issue, which we’ve seen before where we’ve, they’ve had a loan and we’ve decided to defer it or whatever they have to go to the house.

counselors in and talk through the classes center around

also foreclosure prevention. They will work one on one with folks that are that are going through that.

The classes are generally around homeownership, preparing for homeownership, preparing.

Preparing to be a renter isn’t the right word, but

being a good renter, and how to increase your credit score and what to do to to position yourself to be in a better position, budget wise as well.

And actually, we just got noticed that they have suspended their classes

right now. So

we’ll wait and see what happens.

At some point, we have to laugh about it right?

Africa crazy. And then the other thing that we allocated funding for was his security deposits to support local funded vouchers and additional Housing Authority vouchers that help the folks being referred for housing that come out of homeless solutions for Boulder County. We set aside 8500 in 2019. And we’re just getting to the point of being able to contract for those services now. So we’ll hit it hard in 2020. And actually hope it works out better, we’ll be able to do a contract, one contract to 2019 funding in 2020. And CBP, HUD doesn’t have an issue with those funds being spent.

That line up there on the side that says leveraged 364,000. What does that mean? So the Boulder County housing counseling program got that much

additional money from other funding sources. So city of Boulder contributes to state contributes private banks contribute to their program. So that is the amount that leverage now that all that wasn’t leveraged in Longmont, but if the program itself, got it, thank you.

So some of the comparisons on triggers, I guess, or goals that we have to meet. So we had a 33.4% expenditure ratio, this is not good. We were at 50% in 2018. So what this means is of the funds that we had committed, and what we spent, we only spent 33% of what we had committed and available to us in 2019. And you’re going to see the ramifications of that. In 2019, our timeliness ratio was 1.43 working hard to be one below 1.5. So we did meet that what that means is that at a certain time

point in our fiscal year had checks and we can’t have any more than one and a half times our grant amount in our letter of credit at HUD. So you have to be below that 1.5, we were at 1.43. Last year, we were at 1.2 for that checkpoint, so that we didn’t do a good job on that either. We leverage 64 cents for every $1 spent in CDBG funds, it was 53%, or 53 cents in 2018. So that’s a little bit better. 14.6% of our 2019 funding was spent on administration, the cap on the top amount that head allows is 20%. So we were below that. So one standpoint, that’s good. On the other standpoint, I’d like it to be at 19. So we’re getting at least as much as we can, coming from the CDBG program. And then 98.9% of our funding spent in 2019 benefited low moderate income residents and we were at 87 points.

4% in 2018, and the requirement is 70%. So if you’re way above that

will sort of

like what is that like a 20 to 30%. So it’s some of your programs. So like the housing counseling program, they can assist people over 80% area median income.

I can’t remember what we funded in 2018

is something that might have been in not an urgent need but light activity or just had a lower percentage of folks that were non low moderate income. What’s the threshold for moderate by

80% 80%? Were the top of moderate yet? Yeah.


So financially speaking

This kind of shows

where we stood or how we progressed through the year. So on the far this way,

is the 2018 unexpended funds we brought into 2019 and then which is 671,800. Then we got 622,900 in our CDBG grant for 2019.

The big number which kind of is what

threw us over

was we got 402,000 in program income, we anticipated 50,000

and we got about 50,000 in regular program income. So we got 300,000 at the very end of 2019 from a loan couple loans with the so repaid some of their loans when we loaned them even more money that they repaid. So that came in at the very end of the year. So that threw us way off whack because we didn’t have time to spend it allocated or spending.

So which left us with

At the end of the year 362,000 in funds not allocated that is that extra program income. So we had budgeted at 1.3 million in funds and in 2018, we spent 566 400, which leaves as at the end of 2019. With 1.1 million.

Whoops. Yeah. So you have in income between unexpended funds, that’s the grant programming. We have about 1.7 billion

and then the funds not allocated. That is 2019 funds are those are the next column over.

income. That’s not allocated are this.

Yes. So

yep. So funds not allergy.

means they haven’t been assigned to a crisis. And expanded means they were assigned, but not actually happened.

So that would suggest they are going to be spent at some point. Yeah, they’re allocated for a timing issue. Yes.

So what this shows is those unspent funds and where they’re at. So this is hard for you guys to see. But this is the funding for rehab project delivery. So this is our cost to manage the rehab program. This is the general recap. So we have a lot of events committed for that program.

Over 350,000

This is how much we spent is the red and the green is what was left unspent and the in between 80 so really what this so that’s the general rehab. This is our potential barrier. This is mobile home

pair. This is the emergency grant program. This is the utility deposit security deposit or HSBC. This is the in between Cherry Street project that we were awarded, and then this is Aspen Meadows refinance and rehab projects will be awarded. So what this shows us is that the mobile home repair is the only program we respect more than we left unspent. So that one is doing fairly well.

Obviously, we need to get the rehab funding out into the community, all of the rehab programs and spent count account for $452,400.

So part of the problem is we did not receive our grant agreement until September so

I’m sorry


me shut down in 2019

years and 17 and that’s the grant agreement from CDBG and Hud to actually New Year calendar year yeah.

So we’re supposed to get her money in January, again in September. Awesome.

Yeah, maybe some staffing issues there. Or who knows? It’s been a trend for how many years now longer than we thought. Because when I went back and looked, I think it’s almost 15

Okay, like it gets later and legit.

So the projects,

the HSBC and the Cherry Street project in between, and the SM Meadows

refi. Those cannot begin even until late fall. So that accounted for 305,000. So that’s 757,000 of the 1.1 million that was left at spam. And then we received that over 300,000 in programming kind of damage. So it makes up another 300 of that one.

margin. Yeah, it gets to that level, about 700, approximately right there. And our contractors also

changing your timeline that you’re just not able to get the work done in a timely fashion. But that’s part of what’s hampering the rehab program.

The in between has went ahead and they were able to fit the work. So they should start here pretty soon. We just couldn’t get them under contract and they couldn’t sign a contract with their contractor. So

it could could be bad.

I have a question. Sort of, kind of going back to that advertising.

You mentioned some of the challenges for contractors

are the limits on these funds such that

the city couldn’t see. Like if a contractor doesn’t have like the DUNS number

I think that you said or some of the things that are required for federal approval through HUD, are these funds limited in such a way that we couldn’t help contractors? Do some of those things?

Okay, so we will sit down and help them go online and it doesn’t cost them to get Okay, number. It’s just a timing thing. And sometimes it takes a while for those to get processed. And it isn’t.

It’s not complicated, but it’s not the most intuitive process. So yes, we will sit down with them and help them get it. Got it. You know, they’re on their own to get the insurances required. And to get their license. We try and use the general contractor as much as possible because their subs don’t necessarily have to be licensed. They carry you know, obviously the whiteout or all of that. So that’s a way we’ve done it because we’ve talked about do we start acting as the general

In order to get more, you know, people bidding and more trades involved, you still have to have a DUNS and then they’re gonna have to have insurance and everything’s we don’t, we’re not a licensed contractor to do that. So that’s doesn’t help much. Yeah.

Yeah, I just wondered like, you know, if the city had a agenda as an outside general contractor, but like we could help support them with their insurance costs, so that then they would be licensed and insured to then bring in subs. But it might get a little too, like closely held for like these grant funds. I’m assuming there are programs that help with that kind of stuff. And I would think,

so we could, we could send them to like Colorado enterprise fund and help small businesses get started and helps with that kind of thing. So I think there’s resources as well for that. So it’s


It sounds like it’s less of a like it’s a cost.

for them and it’s more just like we just don’t have enough general contractors that can do all the work

advertising to get contracts

it’s just getting you know the advertising out there. Yeah, we could, you could help contractors with that but the word needs to get out so because there’s seems like a lot of people out there that would so kind of interest it’s kind of in your wheelhouse a little bit if you haven’t thought of how you could.

righted contractors for this job.

As a contractor,

it just seems like high cost, low reward. You know what I mean? That you’re you have to do double band

in this competitive against some mandated price range within 15%. So the profit margins probably pretty low, I would imagine. Imagine the government stipulates that, you know, the profitability of the job. I mean, they’re fairly low dollar value, they’re averaging $1,000. So it’s really more in the realm of a handyman in terms of its value.

And so contractors, it’s hard to be attracted to them also.

It would have to be, from my perspective, almost a

social benefit project for, you know, an established large contractor in the community to take on these kinds of projects and the sort of, I think the appeal would be the marketing value that looks company to contractor, we care about our community. And so we’re engaged with the city along on helping these rehab programs and that would be I think, that took to make it for a contractor to

To engage these kind of projects with the government

that would be a pitch, I think.

I can see a lot of the like, I could see it even like the higher value homeowners that are looking at contractors seeing that type of thing. And that because so many people are looking at, like, are the people I’m doing business with? You know, are they socially responsible? Like there’s a lot of people that are interested in so I could see that being, you know, for like, the people who are doing the hundred $200,000 jobs if they know that the contractor they’re working with is also doing those things and might be appealing to at least some homeowners that are doing those

just as a thought are because so many of these

discussed are remodels.

Now it seems like new construction versus remodels were

models can fit in time seasonality when new construction maybe can’t but as I remember you want to have your your basic framework up in your roof in your walls before bad weather hits so you can do all your insight work but is there no timing advantage to some of these remodels are contractor keeping their staff their their staff busy? You know what I mean? That would be a benefit to have some nice interior jobs that weren’t scheduled some schedule sensitive that if you have weather delays or something like that you would have small projects to fill that gap.

If you don’t make a ton of money.

Yeah, it’s hard enough looking for contract Earth


So then going into the affordable housing program and this is really just looking

The affordable housing fund.

So we made a $300,000 loan to purchase local mobile home park if you remember, so they can become a resident on community and that has moved forward and is completed.

a $600,000 loan was provided to the soul to refinance and rehab their long term properties. And that has they have started work on I think all of their properties

on that, and they have actually repaid 300,000 of the 600,000 already

$110,000 loan was made to habitat to do pre development work at the Rogers road site. So they have submitted plans for

into planning and development services for construction review going forward on that.

I think maybe it was just a preamp I can’t remember if they actually submitted

It was a free app, but they have been moving forward anyway, I know that we made a $287,300 loan to the in between to finish construction on the microphones and almost all of that has been spent in the homes our CEO, I think and started leasing. Not fully at least.

We continue to work on two of the pilot projects.

edu stock plans and the planning facilitator. So the planning facilitator, and I think I talked a little bit sure if I talk a little bit more about it later, but

has been very successful actually. And this, if you remember, is a contract that we did to see if we could help smaller developers

get through the Planning and Development review process, which is quite lengthy.

When they’re less sophisticated and don’t know as much about how the whole process works, and

We have assisted six different developers in 2019.

Two of those have moved to building permits.


another one,

another two, no three are still moving through the process. And then one hasn’t moved forward yet. So

they’re still available. So we have felt this is pretty successful. We are not out of funds yet, but maybe mid year we might be coming back to have some additional funds go into that contract. On the stock plans. We have the plans fully completed. There’s four different varieties. I should have added those in here.

And they’re through building permit. They’ve been approved through building permits. So we’ve got that so everything is now waiting on me to finish the financial analysis.

So what the cost to build versus what the rents are at an affordable level, how much are we going to have to subsidize to make it attractive for a period of time and, and then put the collateral information, the brochures and that kind of stuff together what, what is the website look like etc and then launch the program which

we shouldn’t get going here in in April, assuming they shut down for current buyers.

So so that is moving forward, and we will get that program going. That will have to go back to Council for approval because we are looking at fee waivers to apply to those which that doesn’t have to go to council but I think an additional subsidy, what I’m looking at is somewhere between 20 to 35,000 per

ad you

in order to bridge the gap

For loans they would have to take out and the rents that they can charge on that and still cover their taxes, their insurance, their replacement reserves and all that kind of stuff. So kind of laying all that out. And that would be, what I would suggest is that it probably would be a forgivable loan. If we, their interests, whoever is interested in doing this signed an agreement to keep their rents affordable for 10 years, that loan would be forgiven over that 10 year period as long as they kept it affordable. So

for those stock plans, do you know right now, what the range of like building costs for those are that you’re estimating? Yeah, so the low end is 6000 for like a studio, standalone studio, and these are all standalone units. up to I think it’s 175

it has

As a

two bedroom I think it’s a bedroom and a loft or a bedroom and nook.

But that’s what the garage construction, I think what I’m finding is I’m going to have to take the garage out, they can obviously build it over a garage if they want that they’re going to have to finance themselves and we’re not going to subsidize that so I’ll have to take that. That’s another thing. I’m struggling with it figuring out that whole calculation so but yeah, there’s that can be built over garage or they built by themselves, and then the other two are just standalone.

It’s really cool. I think that seems like a really interesting thing. Yeah.

We sold a house last year, and that’s like the people coming in we’re like, we’re gonna build an ad you

but to have it sort of like package to be able to provide affordable, I think would make it a lot easier for a lot of people to think about.

I do want to say I was at a presentation yesterday morning,

partnership, their board meeting and one of the representatives from all

and she specifically presented mica homes and the stock plants, saying that these things are happening in Longmont and boulder really needs to catch up

to the work that’s being done here. So I think that’s

very complimentary to the work you’re doing. It’s really nice.

You’re close, it’s like

we’re just gonna have a whole bunch of science people can stick in their yards and contractor at you

and then the proper program that we just got

Started, if you remember the city reviewed its properties that it has purchased, basically through open space and through water, sewer

purchases. And we are slowly converting those to affordable rentals.

So we did set aside 100 to 25,000 to rehab one of the properties, and we’re waiting it’s

a REIT involved in the Greenway improvements on county like one, just north of ninth Avenue. So there’s a lot of construction going on and they’re using most of the property for staging area. So there’s no point in adding to the chaos by having recap contractors in there. So we’re gonna wait until they’re done with that one. One of the other properties we did

least to habitat to have some of their volunteers at in temporary staff status.

Which helps save them some costs and increases their capacity to

get and utilize volunteers as they prepare for upcoming inclusionary housing builds. So

that’s exciting.

And then we provided a little over $157,800 in fee waivers from the affordable housing fun, which supported 66 rental homes, which was the Michael home project in the Fall River senior rental project. So that’s an average of 20 just under 20 $400 per rental home with the waivers that were provided.


administration wise, we conducted three application cycles in 20 1911 applications were received and reviewed. Five projects were approved for affordable housing funding.

As well as five for CDBG in one home,

we instituted the inclusionary housing program. And we moved only six units closer to our goal in 2019. Because mica homes in Fall River didn’t get CO and until 2020. We are hoping to get CEOs and in 2019 so we added four units at Blue VISTA and

to habitat for sale homes was all we added in 2019.

And then, on the regional Affordable Housing Partnership, which you were talking about,

I personally was involved in six different community presentations about that. We’ve got a ballot measure countywide validation, it’s being explored. We set up an Affordable Housing Trust Fund governance structure and distribution formula is ready to go if that ballot measure moves forward.

So again, it would operate kind of like the home

a little bit like the home owner, although the communities participating and receiving funding, as well as allowing for funding for a countywide down payment assistance program and a countywide rehab programs so that might get some of the mass that we need to get the rehab program expanded by operating accounting wise, and then it would also allow for some

competitive benefits as well. And then the home wanted education and support campaign started and really kicked off here in 2018. So we’ll keep you posted on what’s going on as we move into 2020. Is the ballot measure a tax increase? So we’re not sure at this point. They’re going to do some polling in

March for started April.

county commissioners will make the decision. I think they’re well, I’m not sure if they’re going to pull both on property and sales. It is looking like it might be a housing and transportation tax together. That would move forward.

So we’re we’ve started meeting and we’ve only had three meetings together so far so

and I presume it would be potentially delay. If it was determined that this is now a good year to ask for a tax increase because of the recession.

Yeah, I’m sure that will fit into it. I mean, we were pretty well that if we were going to do it, we should do it in 2020 because we just needed high turnout for the presidential election and younger voters in particular, being


But yeah, we go into recession and that might be a different story.

Okay, well,

let’s see.

We asked a lot of questions during the presentation. were excellent. Are there any additional questions for Kathy on this 2019 performance report?

I do have one. Does HUD evaluate these reports and say, that’s good?

Doing or that’s bad. You shouldn’t get any more money or? Yeah, so they do evaluate them.

They look and compare the goals that you set as part of the Consolidated Plan, which we’re getting ready to start another five year Consolidated Plan. We set five year goals and we set annual goals. Excuse me as well.

They compare back to the goals.


they do send a report that they have looked at everything and whether you are considered to be adequate or inadequate. Don’t use the word good. No.

satisfactory maybe that’s that’s high. So

it’s an interesting. They’re very

typical highest. You ever sit there are no findings.

Those lines, yeah. Okay. So they really look at how are you doing? What are you meeting? Are you exceeding any of the caps that you can’t exceed? Are you primarily serving moderate income folks?

You know, somewhat how you’re doing with your goals. But if you have narrative that explains why you did

Who needs something or why you over exceeded on something.

They just don’t give you much feedback on that kind of stuff. So it’s really that the primary triggers that they looked at. So it seems like there’s a lot accomplished right timing affects what period they go into the sounds like 2020 may be a really awkward year for a bunch of projects on the books but seems good, right this so some of the things I know you’re concerned about with like being at 1.4 3.5 but you’re still under probably no reason for concerned. You won’t be likely found adequate

and found adequate. Yes, mostly satisfactory.

We should keep a list of the adjectives

it would be five of them

I think

yes. Does this HUD flag the fact that we had so many unexpended? Like unused funds? Is that a concern for, you know, future grants or anything like that? So that’s why they look

over that is a trigger. Yeah. That that’s the biggest trigger. So I mean, if you go over that, then they start.

Well, you have to have a plan of how you’re going to get out of it the next year, but then if you’re over it again, then they start talking your your funding. Theoretically, I’m sure.

A Chicago or New York City will probably never be so.

I have not heard they’ve ever had funding take it away. But maybe

it’s just Yeah.

I’m curious about

the funding that’s supposed to be applied in January.

We don’t get to September. And it’s happened for years. Right? It’s a trend a trend for us. Is there anything that can

you can do or can be done to break that trend and get it back on track? Well, so it’s all tied to Congress and your government approve the budget on time.

So I have advocated that they can change the 1.5. Or they can choose to ignore it. I mean, there are regulatory things that had to do. And their response was, why don’t you change your program? You’re disturbed later in the year.

I was gonna ask if, if there was something we needed to or July, or whatever. The problem is, you lose funds. We spent time if we did that, because

You can’t move back.

So they wouldn’t throw anything.


me, if it continues to be a trend does it make sense at some point to bump it by like a month cheer, so you don’t really lose. So your like the amount of funds you could potentially lose is really low. And then you eventually catch up to where they actually are allocating the funds. So that we know if we were ever going to do that. What I would do is move it all the way back to


so we were a whole year behind. So almost take a hiatus for a year. So your whole year behind the fiscal year. The community I came from in Ohio, we were a year behind the federal fiscal year. So we got our funds always on time.

Because you know, they’ve had almost a year to work it out. Now, at some point they might start getting even further behind. But

Yeah, it’s hardly worth it to me to what you would lose to move it to like July or even to September without going all the way back behind it the federal fiscal year.

So have you have you lost money before? Oh,

so it’s, it’s working. So it’s an inconvenience, but it’s something you’re able to work with this.

The problem is that

when you consistently get your money so late, you just can’t spend, you know, you’re just behind all the time, and it’s very difficult to to catch up. So this year, we’ve got our allocation amount, we have not gotten our letter from HUD about when they’re going to do our grant agreement. We’re hoping it’ll be May to June this year. So we could start getting it a little bit earlier and a little bit earlier than that would help us but there’s nothing like a federal line of credit.

You could draw on until

The grant agreement is in place.

You have in

Europe, the grant agreement, it’s relatively secure, right? It was not a high risk. Well, what you can do is you can ask for a waiver to enter into agreements before you get your grant agreement. It’s a process. And you know, there’s no good. They always tell you, there’s no guarantee.

So your signature affects your local funds at risk.

And we do that for our admin, and for the rehab programs, so they continue and we don’t have to stop them, but to actually give funds to another organization, and take that risk is we have not done that.

All right, let’s move on to the 2020.

So the 2020 I don’t have any big presentation. It’s really more if you have questions. It’s just

really showing you this is where we ended up.

When Council approved it. The slight change that happened was that we actually found out our grant amount

as we were

at right after actually, right after we had submitted our council calm to Council, so I had to do

so the church has the circle around it.


The colorful chart looks like this.

So the numbers highlighted in orange ish are what changed from when you guys saw it to what actually went to Council and was approved

because we had anticipated getting a similar grant amount to 2018

Which was 622,000, we got 610. So we lowered the

security deposit amount by about 2000, I think,

for 2020. And we had told in between they could get up to 160,000.

So we lowered that by 64,000. And then the administration amount lowered a little bit as well. And the reason for the increase in the grab that was this sort of it’s just what happens. It’s a formula that they plug in the numbers. My guess is

because I think that Alec that object, the approved amount actually increased that every year there’s more entitlements

of communities, Evan flow on the poverty rates and construction and housing stock better doing Alicia

our housing prices are increasing.

wasn’t a huge No. But we did get a decrease 2018 from 2018

which I think might have been a


I did somewhere.

So the memo,

Kathy, this is the

copy of that.

So that’s all that was.

Perfect. Any questions on


action plans specifically related to the changes? So we’ve gone through this before

Last year,

did we go through recommendations staff was making on this I

think we finalized early this year.

So I’m trying to think of our new members were here when we did that.

So you probably remember,


at Stanford.

So if you I would suggest, because if you haven’t had a chance to read the memo, go through the memo. probably already read it. But if you do have questions that might be you don’t have any now, reach out to me with any questions that you might have some follow up, because I know a lot of information without the context of


questionable format.

All right. Thank you Kathy. See?

Kathy show. Now it’s inclusionary.

Yes. So now we are on to item seven, revealing the 2019 inclusionary housing program metrics.

So there’s a lot of information in here so I thought I would go through it. This was the presentation that was made to counsel and did every

Does everyone have



That’s the end of the city council communication


so this is an update on the inclusionary housing

which just started in 2019 was approved in 2018.

So, the

most of the developments that are under construction right now were approved before the ordinance went into effect. So we are just now starting to see

Some developments come under this program. So there are about 20 different projects that are going to fall under the ordinance as of

this point in time, which changes if this was through the end of 2018.

nine of those we’re providing have chosen to provide their affordable housing on site by the developments are already chosen to make the fee in lieu payment. And then eight of the developments are still undecided. So they’re moving through the process. This adds up more, up to more than 20 because some are doing both payment in lieu and providing units. One in particular is doing some of the units, the whole number of units on site and then paying the fraction, even in terms of my numbers surprise you or

how I thought about this I I’ve always believed that developers


Offer housing on site. So this

comes to surprise at all.

So most of them that are providing on site or rentals

it’s a little easier to do

or would it be to add to the ordinance to provide an option for CDBG?

It’s not a terrible idea.

But finance


Yeah, the problem with that is that we can’t it doesn’t seem fair to deed was

permanently affordable a house that somebody already owns. And we are trying

to get permanently affordable.

Yeah and to increase

but your thought wasn’t to deed restrict those houses that they’re rehabbing. It’s just to incentivize them to help with some other piece of our affordable like our housing issues, right like

it was basically to say like, rather than rather than paying a fee, you agree to at least bid on some of these things. Or like, I think in order to get it to count toward our initiative, affordable housing, you would have to be rent controlled and restricted

to different programs. There.

Alright, so the

projects that are providing homes on site, actually the numbers are equal for rental and five, I’m sorry, five rentals for sales by the scope. But the homes in the projects that rental development’s total homes are 789 and 230 of those 789 would be affordable.

And the majority are provided within market rate development. So they’re not 100% affordable but they are within Marguerite development. I see where you made the mistake, there was the rate of affordable homes and those rental units is significantly higher than the rate of those Yeah.


And then for sale developments. Total 101,422 total units 52 of the homes are affordable.

And the majority of the affordable for sale homes are being provided in partnership. profit. So the developer isn’t the one that’s actually providing the units. They’re donating land basically.

So the fee in lieu that we’re estimating for three other rental projects, our estimate is 48,400. That we would get in payments. And on the for sale projects that have chosen fee in lieu, we’re estimating about 1.4 million for those so significantly more because the homes are larger and it’s based on a higher fee Lu per square foot rate

is higher. So we’re still trying to figure out when these are going to come in, but the pipeline on the right hand side

we think

If we might get around 330,000 in 2020, and then about 500,000 each in 2021 and 2022. Obviously this will change.

We know more

projects, development change, etc. And they could all go. Yeah. craziness if we go into recession, yeah.

So the interest in building the middle tier housing,

if you remember, our program is somewhat unique in that you can, if the development is willing to build in the 80 to 120%, ami 81 to 120% ami range, they get different levels of exemption from the 12% requirement to incentivize that middle tier range. We’ve got several that are in the review process and have said that they’re interested but we don’t

Have any signed agreements yet committing to building the middle tier, so we don’t really count them, but council wanted to know this information. So one of the projects in South hoeber, which is

south of Oskar blues.

There’s a triangle property right out there. Mm hmm. They are anticipating building the majority of theirs in the 101 210% ami range, and then some in the next range up. So there still would be some if they hit these targets, there still would be some fee in lieu that would be due

40% of the fee in lieu for the hundred one 210 and 80% of the fee in lieu for the hundred 1100 20%

and then mountain Brook even though they satisfied some of their units with the habitat land donation and veterans community project land donation have got about 14

unsatisfied units. And so somebody’s going to have to make a fee lieu or meet the middle tier.

Whether it’s in the town, kind of partisan development, so we’re working through that what that’s gonna look like. So that triangle they’re planning to have 236 single family freestanding homes on our property. Yes, I can’t remember their townhome development or if it’s a mix, like you

might be condos and

I don’t get dragged, trying not trying to extricate

a person.

So just taking a look at the market and what is happening with that.

So median sales prices are kind of leveling out at the end of 2019. Look in both the attached for sale and the detached

For sale prices, there was a 1.3% increased

in the sales prices in the median sales price for detached homes and at point seven 4% a little bit less than 1% decrease in the attached


Some leveling, maybe due to more cones being available to purchase, there was a 5% increase in the number of units that were available 2018 to 2019 in the detached home product, and 11% increase in the attached home product. So, a lot more townhomes and condos were actually available in 2019 than they were available in 2018. Which could account for some of that.

I new homes versus existing home sales. New Homes are becoming a greater part of wholesales increasing from a low of 4% in 2010

To a high of 28.7% in 2018, and we ended in 2019 and 22% of all home sales for new home sales versus existing.

So, a change you can even just see the recession.

There was construction obviously, and it has increased.

So this chart shows the income needed to purchase or rent in Longmont compared to our median income and our affordable rates. So

the blue line on the top is the income that’s needed to purchase at the median home sales price, single family detached home sales price, and the reddish line. Solid reddish line is the

income that’s needed to purchase the median attached who sells price over the years.

The green line,

the green line, the purple line is the income needed to purchase.

Or I’m sorry, the income needed to rent in Longmont over a year, the years, the median red.

The green line is the green solid line is the median income for the city of Longmont over the years and we don’t have 2019 yet because it’s American Community Survey data and it hasn’t come out yet. Or at least when I put this chart together,

and then the red dashed line is the 80% HUD median income for a three person family, which is usually what we use to set the sales prices for

detached home prices.

So you can see there’s a big gap there and then the dashed

Purple Line is 50% of the HUD median income for two person, which is usually what we use to

kind of cut for

like not likely to be able to purchase

so those HUD ones are are based on nationwide medians. Okay,

but the city median

it doesn’t track like they’re not even right like over time. So like the red dotted one is above the green in 2010.


is that because bold or Longmont city median income was lower than Boulder County as a whole.

Yes, okay.

Sorry, just trying to orient myself on that. Got it. Yeah, sometimes you have to be

so because green is city of Longmont and whereas those those orange impacted

are really faced

as a city have increased them with

folks in the low and moderate income have not. Got it.

And still, people that have the green line can’t afford to purchase attached or immediate afford to purchase detached. Yeah. And it’s set calculation

to afford average rents. Is that based on like the rule of 30%?


So, does this help you with questions? Yeah about

it is that the same for like the income you need to afford the sales prices is also based on that 30%

that you’re essentially your mortgage would be 33%. No more than 33% of your income. Okay.

A really good job right? 95,004

But also like, if you’re making a mean, that 33 if you’re spending 33% of your income, you’re sort of the max. And that’s, that’s assuming everything is going well for somebody making that to be able to afford a house at that.

And we know, we know from other things that we’ve seen is there’s so many folks that are rent burdened that are above 50% of their income, right?

Just rent houses, so they could own a home and their income hasn’t kept up with taxes.

So something like the



have wanted

I was gonna say homeaway, Airbnb.


there has to be this question because ideally, there’s some redistribution of money to say, you know, most people are not able to afford a home here, but some are able to afford a lot.

But depending on how the tax works, it’s potentially people who can’t afford a home. They’re paying a tax to

maybe help them afford a home. I guess it’s regressive. In some ways, it’s a sales tax or something. I’m just getting because it seems to me to be exactly the right idea of the community as a whole contributing to this issue and figure out how to fund it. There.

It’s just this strikes me that there are a lot of people who, who need the benefit, and there’s only a few could afford a

not a question, just

please, these gaps are getting bigger, as what I’m seeing is just bigger and bigger over the years and it doesn’t seem like it’s me, even if the prices level off, it seems like that that gap is, is big enough that it’s going to continue to be an issue.


median household income short by a third of what’s needed in order to for us, that’s a big chunk to make up the 33% chunk

or subsequent production

This won’t be uplifting guys.

Let me

know. So I’m looking at parental leave versus what we’re providing or what we’re getting in the engineering housing program. So this shows information from the draft Consolidated Plan, which you’ll get next month and in greater detail. It shows that the greatest rental housing need is

for folks that are at or below 40% of the area median income, which is those top five, both categories there.

And our inclusionary housing rental projects, the ones that have been approved

to provide the units on site and I just saw that they

don’t check.


It’s an actual word

are providing primarily 60% area median income, where there is not a gap or a need. So

you can see this if you can see it on your better on your projection thing but there’s 2307 73 unit need in that 40% area median income of below the number of units that we need. And we have provided through English just through the inclusionary housing program, 14 of the units will be at 30% and five will be at 40%. So 19 total 56 at 50%. And then the majority 155 60% ami, so I think we do need to look at whether or not we should go back down to having the affordability limit for rental housing 50% of ami to be

under the inclusionary housing

programs so,

and we were 50, we went up to 60 when they passed the inclusionary housing.

And a lot of people came in with 60%, whatever, 50 years 40?

Well, because it’s very difficult to provide 4050 at least gets us closer, and it might by pushing it down to 50. So, so the whole theory is that

if you build higher end rental units, people who are in lower priced housing, it doesn’t have anything at the higher end will move up and out, and they will free up. Right.


so it’s kind of the triple up

or it’s triple down in a different way, this kind of thing. So

the theory wasn’t there was kind of


wish there was right after the session. And you can see there is a gap for movies, really high end.

There’s 1400 and 55 unit gap there. But that’s also not where folks are building. So the thought was if you build enough in that

middle range 70 to whatever it goes up to

that folks who are currently in the lower that 420 seventh area of your life, we’re not. So folks who are currently in there and can afford to be here. We’ll move here. So they see there’s only a 39 unit

surplus in the 50. That’s about 50% ami. So if we keep it at 50 and actually get some units

And then that might start to happen a little bit.

Isn’t building here isn’t going to happen. gonna help enough people? I mean, isn’t that movement predicated on people’s circumstances and



based on the assumption that people in the 25 to 35 to roughly 35 range can afford to move out. When the reality is you’re paying whatever you’re paying for rental house.

But you’re paying whatever you’re paying right for.

Really, really hesitant, especially if you’re on

to move up in anything, especially if

you’re in a position to

be very optimistic about your future.

You could also It could also be that you’re in this like,

35 to 50 range, but you’re in one of those Florida like ones that are, you know, $500 a month, which means that you’re sort of taking the stock for the folks that are in that. And if you actually moved into one that was, quote in your income range, that would open up things so that we would have at least some of the folks that are actually in that income range to be able to live there.

When I was talking to the folks at the in between this week, they said that that’s one of the biggest things that they’re looking at is, what are the barriers to people actually leaving the transitional housing? And is it can they afford? What’s next? Like, can they do they have all the things they need to do that? Because if they don’t, they can’t move out, which means somebody else can’t move in.

That’s why people won’t be able to save

some security.

Yeah, and if and if there’s only 39 extra units, if you’re in that 25 to 35 range, and there’s only so

Plus of 39. Like, you might not have one that’s close enough to where you work or close enough to a bus line or whatever it is that you need to actually make that work. Even if your income grows, if you’re comfortable where you are, you’re saying pocket that extra cash, you’re not gonna necessarily automatically




2019 sales, there was 1400 and 40 total sales in 2018.

We focus information from the Boulder County assessor’s website so there’s still some scrubbing that needs to do.


most of the homes again, were existing home

versus new moms. And then if you break out the existing homes, in new homes by the income categories,

you can see where things are being built and where things are.

This is just kind of illustrated.

So next to know homes in the below 80%, area median income area,

you know, again 62 out of 500 compared to 544, in that 81 to 100% 65 and the compared to 278 100 120, and then over 120 183 new homes compared to 202 existing sales

of the seven

new sales below 80% for those new VISTA homes that I told you about so under our program, and then three are townhomes in non inclusionary housing developments so

Little bit of market help that

so the

lower income tiers are really relying on existing

for these purchases, yeah. And Councilmember Rodriguez says said that the

this rage in particular, they’re still seeing a lot of competition for the home. So when I was talking about that the home sales prices have flattened somewhat in 2019. He pointed out that in this category at one to 100%, they are seeing multiple bids multiple offers still, so there’s still quite a appetite in a competition in that area. So

Council is is spot on, that they’re trying to increase, you know, housing, whether the teacher housing in there

Can Do you know if if you get stuck

in that range? Is it primarily actual

potential homeowners or or speculators?

You know, that was happening for a while whether it still is or not.

Yeah, yeah. I know when I was in scrubbing some of the data, you can tell that’s what was happening, especially in the 80% envelope. I took out several that were, they’re gonna jump up to

they’re going to those that sold the plants you may say they may sell again, but they’re going to be a few other ones. They could be modeled and invested in, you know, flipped basically. So the I would guess that that category represents gentrification as well, right. The idea of

the slow black was

Once a lower income neighborhood all of a sudden becomes interesting. It’s not the architectures next the house needs some work. But people are moving into them

are hipster for me?

income levels as much as it can happen

as well.

So I’m thinking about East

out towards Martin increasingly more

desirable for young couples young families. And that seems to be where it’s like okay, we’ll take a loan, we’ll fix up the house and that

is it. I was gonna say I know of at least three flips that were at the end of the year last year.

Right along Martin on some of those side streets that was exactly you know, they were bought at like 250 and then sold for like 420.

Like, pretty significant.

So I’m wondering if that if we’re gonna see just the jump from 81 100 to one one to 120 the same on the same properties.

Do you have a Can you do you know offhand roughly what those sales prices are for those.

Each of those categories like Do you know where that falls? If you don’t, that’s okay.

information I do

think I have it.

Well, no, I do.

At one to 100% a tear is 300 to 430.

Wow, that’s

So we looked at

below 80% is below 300,081 to 100 was 301 to 430 101 220 was 430.

In $1 520,000, and then 500 over 100 520 was Thank you


surprised how hard was Christmas?

Yes, we Yes.

I don’t think

it’s quite right. So

as soon as the income moments come out

so by type of home the majority of the home sales are single family, which in this case

Include townhomes. Because of the way the assessors data we didn’t have time to go out and scrub those out. So the top line on each of the categories is all homes. The middle line is single family and then the bottom line is condos

by kitchen


This is

just breaking down the single family sales by prices affordable a bit different pmis.


way of showing it.

Yeah, there’s the prices on Yeah, yeah.

I saw that somewhere. So single family new homes are trending to higher priced units and like the existing market, which still

shows the majority of homes in the 81 to 100% ami tear.

Also, single family category is townhomes, which also may be skewing a higher number in this category. So


you’re all the way

to display

the page 15 I thought it was good

do this all night


So new sales are in the lighter blue so

new home search for single family


So condos the breakout by ami shows this their demo homes 18% were in the hundred and 20% 8% of the homes were in the 80% below 8% ami and the majority of condo sales were in the

101 220% ami

and this is market again it’s not

and then again

so the new home new condo sales there were none below 80% which see, let’s see

To suggest that the new condos being built are mimicking the existing housing market.

And by a slight majority, most of them are the hundred hundred to 120 100. And above

this one we’ve already seen and discussed the need to create 200 new homes annually.

And the pipeline of what we’re projecting our the affordable inclusionary homes estimated upcoming new units, an additional 352 homes for 6.5% goal attainment by 20 through 2023. If everything pans out as they are none of these are getting us to 200 in a year. So obviously we have to still look at our using our affordable housing funds to support other projects that fee in lieu when that starts coming


and also purchasing existing and converting to affordable.

So some of the metrics that we’re using to measure inclusionary housing and what we’ll be tracking,

changes and building permits. How do those compare to the state in our surrounding

changes in the median home sales prices as we started to show here, and how that might impact our inclusionary housing goal ami targets in what the markets providing how the units are being provided? Is the loo sufficient to replace units? How are we doing against our 12% goal attainment, and then eventually who’s being served with the program as we start to actually get units and people start moving into them.

So some of the trends that we’re seeing

and then number of projects for sale and rental and choosing right now.

To provide units

for sale and rental are choosing the same proportion of Caillou two units. So

that is not favoring one over the other yet. Rental affordable housing units are primarily being provided within the development. And the greatest area of rental units needed below 50% are below are not what is being provided,

which we talked about.

So moving forward,

some of the things we’re going to be looking at

because it was somewhat unclear, and it applied very broadly and we’ve had situations come up where people are renovating their existing house and they might be adding


units or bedrooms or they might be adding to their existing dwelling.

So what do we do with that? Other residential dwellings we’ve had some things like somebody wanted to go in and purchase an existing single family home and convert it to a group home.

Because the inclusionary housing because they’re increasing the number of people living there and the number of bedrooms.

There’s good property line adjustments that have created a new lot to how does that impact things.

And we have one developer that came in that he had planted townhomes and wanted to come in and change to small single family homes, and he’s gonna have to have

Platt revision, which triggers inclusionary housing. He has an increasingly number of units at all, exact same number of units. So it’s everything except for different type of unit.

Does that really trigger inclusionary housing. So some of those things we’re gonna have to work through

Yeah, the thing that’s been brought up is that

right now the code requires donation of land to the city.

And developers are more comfortable, at least right now, donating directly to habitat or nonprofit. So we’re having to go and get council approval of those as opposed to just being able to approve that. So take a look at that, too. We have like a list of approved nonprofits that they can also donate to so we don’t have to go to council every time.

Why is that? Is it because of some tax benefit to them by going to a nonprofit instead of to the city or I think it’s just a field.

Well, they

come in with a partnership already with a habitat or gardens community project, that’s really the two so far that have happened.

So it just, it’s

Seems kind of foolish to make them donate to the city and then the city has to turn around and donate it to the nonprofit. So we’ve got it just requested permission.

And I’m trying to remember why they chose to set up that one, again with I think our attorney’s office wasn’t comfortable with who


get a donation, or whether a sham nonprofit might be set up by the developer to to take it or something and that’s why they you know, we ended up doing to the city, but

I think we can figure it out work around so.

So that’s that unless there’s other questions. I think this just shares Fall River with this stuff, myself.

Yeah. Anyone else?



certainly illustrates the size.

I got about 20 copies of the last page in our bank. Okay. It was a little accident. Yes, it was a mess.

Alright, so any questions on the last presentation?

All right. Well, thank you so much for putting that together for us very helpful.

We’re on to discussing the role of the tech

Discussing the role of the technical review group.

Be more beauty.

I’ll bring that up.

Alright, so

Alright, so the


was started in 2002

to fill a need that the housing advisory board it felt at that time that there was

which is that they didn’t feel they had the expertise as we were starting to get

More and more into allocating funding for affordable housing projects which are inherently more complex than our regular CDBG projects and

in are different than the Human Service Agency funding this group started out doing so the kind of added to the duties of this board and and this was the results so

so they didn’t feel equipped to review

the applications that we were getting and at that time 18 years ago, staff was me, a downpayment assistance program person and a brand new inclusionary housing person for the effect at the time. So we really didn’t have much capacity in house to to conduct the reviews in depth. And I think the housing advisory board just felt somewhat overwhelmed and out of their depth, so it was decided

To create the technical review group to review those and that the group will be formed with particular expertise that could review the applications

and then make a recommendation for funding to the housing advisory board. So if you remember the technical review group includes housing builders,

developers, real estate, somebody from the real estate community, the banking and lending community, folks that either are low income, or

keep up organizations that serve that population and understand their needs. And then

folks that either our special needs populations or serve special needs populations, so so those are considered as well. They’re supposed to look at the experience and capacity as the developer.

The costs are the

costs in line with other projects,

evaluation of the developer speed loan to value ratios, etc The financial feasibility of the project, whether they have sufficient operating reserves, etc. And then conformance to our affordability requirements around the goals that we’ve set priorities by income or type of unit, etc.

Then that housing advisory board would review the recommendations of the TRG and make a recommendation up to

what has I think, happened over the years is

the we’ve tried to include the housing advisory board so they didn’t feel like they were just a rubber stamp of the TRG with the presentations.

Those weren’t always well attended.

It’s so it’s been difficult

To integrate, I guess the work of the two groups.

And I have felt for the last couple of years, several years that we haven’t been getting the level of review and involvement that we need from the TRG. And our staff capacity has increased significantly, actually last year, with the addition of our new inclusionary housing person who came from the development side. And then additional training that Molly are one of our staff person has undertaken in the last couple years as well. So

our applications have also gotten much more sophisticated and involved. We’re mirroring mirroring, the chaff application and then division of housing, state division of housing applications, as well as the city of boulders application. So we have come a long way and what we’re asking for as well.

Some of the things that I’ve noticed with the TRG is that

questions and comments are very thoughtful, but they’re not probing.

They seem to be accepting of the answers but not a lot of follow up. Most of the follow up is coming from staff.

And then the last project is last couple quarters of work that we were working on and analyzing was really all staff. So I don’t know if you remember, I think you’ve got this part of the packet that was included if you remember.

I didn’t make copies or anything but

so when we put together the charts that compared cost per unit status.

It also included the use of funds in what the estimated cost per unit the affordable

ability levels, camera bedrooms,

and then the financial assessment

and compare the projects on a cost basis on a per unit basis,

the placement reserve basis and some of the other factors around that. So that was all done by staff this time

had been done by the TRG in the past.

Just another level, it’s another level. Yes. So we because of the capacity that we have with the addition of Heidi, we were able to take a look more, more of a deep dive in the past. What we would do is just summarize the applications

for the TRG. And then when we have the presentations, we all have questions, we might identify additional things that we need from the applicants

Staff gets those and presents it back to the TRG. And then we have recommendation discussions. So

we have tried to research what other communities have been doing around this issue. And that didn’t really help us very much.

We either got no reply back or they’re at a much lower sophistication level, I guess I would say then, then we are

we are going to attend city of Boulder TRG. They do happen to your team, and operate kind of like we do. So we’re going to attend

one of their meetings to see how their group functions to see if our expectations might just be too high or too low.

So while we’ll definitely bring that information back, but this is an analysis that we intended to do in 2019 and within

instituting the inclusionary housing program we were doing all we can do to keep our heads above water and process the application. So we got in and keep things flowing. So. So we didn’t get to the level of analysis that we wanted to, we haven’t met with the TRG to get their thoughts as well, which I think we really need to have happen. But as we move into that, and so, so one of my recommendations is going to be that we go ahead and reappoint for one year terms again, so that we have 20 to 2020 to do this analysis, and make some decisions moving forward. But we thought it might be a good opportunity to talk through some of what your thoughts are, and I know some of you are new and haven’t been through this so

that you still might have some idea of how you think the process

currently works or should work as we move forward. So I just kind of guess I wanted to throw out

One Do you have any follow up questions before we do that, and then start throwing out a couple of questions for you guys. So

babble on, you’ve been off before for a while. What are your thoughts about the TRG? I was just trying to remember when it was originally

started or created, was it not? I have the role have his role changed for TRG. From from

the beginning to now, it is not, were they not the group that were involved with that community


where we had many sessions, we had a contractor come in a consultant come in, to do some assessment, as it pertains to even how we

allocated funds. It’s a different group.

Discussion are generally 30 of questions. Well, I mean, I certainly have thought yeah, so one of my questions was what what are some of the thoughts that you have about how the current process works? What kind of concerns do you have? Or what kind of benefits do you see from how its operating right now? Yeah. So as the person who currently sits on TRG, as the sports liaison, I think TRG in its present form,

admittedly have only been on three funding cycles now for three quarters.

I think it is a very well constructed and important tool in how we evaluate affordable housing in the city a lot. And that isn’t to discredit staff. It isn’t to say the staff wouldn’t be capable. But the the the group of experts that you have, even if they aren’t necessarily as engaged as maybe we want them to be, I’m sure, for most of them, they review the applications and they come in ready to talk about it. And that’s it. That


the group of experts who sit around that table, make me more knowledgeable as a person who lives in that city. And it make our outcomes on affordable housing far better. I don’t know if you remember the last round of hf applications that this board approved that recommendations that came from TRG. That was a pretty detailed conversation, that board had to come to a creative what I thought was a creative solution, what I thought was the right solution to fund as many of those projects as possible that I don’t believe would have been reached without that combination of people in the room.

You have experts who work with the with the disabled, you have experts who advocate in key areas of housing policy that I do not believe, again, staff can can take into those things. Consideration certainly, but I do not believe would have an advocate in this process, especially the disability community with it, not for TRG

The financial expertise that that group provides is able to

do some pretty remarkable things in the way they, they can just explain projects.

Personally, I think

I do, I do hear you about how to make it more relevant to this boards. And this board is not a rubber stamp. That’s been my frustration as well. And he mentioned presentation, my one thought was that it would be helpful, I think, for this board, to have those same presentations from developers that are given to TRG given to this board as well, to make the developer or whoever’s applying come in for a second time, maybe at a condensed version of that presentation, so that that board feels like they have a better so this board feels like there’s a better understanding of what is being approved. Because this board does not get all the information that TRG gets certainly which I think puts this board at a disadvantage, which is not the goal. The goal is for TRG to be a group of experts that can sit down and look at things and say okay, you know, this is where it’s at.

In terms of the staff, the capacity concerns, and staff now has the capacity to do this work. I agree, staff could do a lot of what TRG does. But I think from a citizen from from from a, I guess I do it a little bit differently than that, I view it as an opportunity for experts in the community to not only assist in doing the work, but to also say, people who really understand this stuff, and understand it at multiple different levels and to come together and say, Okay, this is how this is why this project makes sense. This is what this dollar amount makes sense. Here’s red flag, here’s a red flag

are some of the questions that TRG asked maybe not as probing as maybe they should be possibly I hear that concern. I would say that, when is probing, or at least for hazard, in my opinion, has been the conversation that comes out of those presentations, and especially in the last couple of meetings, the discussions that have happened at the table about, you know, different different pieces and different developments, and how we can come to creative solutions on fundings.

Specifically, what makes sense and what doesn’t, I really believe that this in your long mouth would lose a great deal. If TRG were removed or

changed as a different, I’m always open to having conversations about how something makes something better, but, but eliminating TRG to me is would be a mistake. And that’s,

well, how did they help? Like Kathy, how do they help her?

Do they fill her in on everything that was talked about? So Kathy’s in the room? Oh, Kathy, is in the room for TRG meetings. Kathy is the one that brings typically the application to TRG.

I think it’s less about helping. I mean, I think maybe the the function initially was to help staff and to help staff, kind of with the capacity issue. But I think when I look into your GA, what I see now is a different function. And the function that I see now is to evaluate these projects in ways that this board I believe, still could not, and that isn’t to discredit this board.

Just to say, the blend of individuals that are on to your gene can can look at these things in a different way and provide different insights of this court maybe because of timing, partly because we do a lot on this portal. Of course, the calendar here doesn’t have the ability to dive in in the way that he can

be, I think I view it differently, I guess, I think I see their role is more of a

we’re going to put a bunch of really smart people in the room and figure out if this is a good project for long run or not. And then and then evaluate, especially on the financial side, evaluate whether this makes sense and could staff, you know, do a lot of that work and make a recommendation to this board. Possibly. I think the city would really miss out on the conversation that happens at that table in those quarterly meetings, from individuals and admin from individuals who work in these spaces. So it sounds like community based, community based yeah

So are there what are the actual tangible results on the TRG that you see as positive conversation? So a good example would be, I think we’re trying to remember exactly how the last a Jeff Brown, what the final result was. But I think we included like we got creative teams, you got creative and included, home dollars in that in there included, evaluated all sorts of different funding sources and came out with a solution that probably at least I don’t believe this board would have reached, and maybe necessarily, staff wouldn’t have naturally come to, to begin with. And we were because of that we were able to fund more projects, and I think ways that are ultimately beneficial to the city.

That’s one tangible impact. I also think.

Yeah, I think that’s probably

I’d have to go back and look at exactly what are what are, what the recommendation would have been. Go back to my notes

But which I can do, but

I think we

we get a great deal by having

by having that that group review these applications and make a recommendation. And I hear you about the rubber stamp case, though. Absolutely. I think this board can often serves as a rubber stamp in ways that maybe you shouldn’t on affordable housing applications. And, you know, I would just go back to saying one way to potentially address that is to power this board a little bit more and have developers and have conversations about it. Be my one maybe recommended changes to factor. I don’t know if that answers your question. I kind of kind of went around in circle but it it is.

It is a

in terms of tangible impact. I think we gain this board and I think staff in expertise from different

segments of the community that aren’t necessarily represented in the conversation all the time. Specifically, there’s a disability. There’s somebody with disability advocates, there’s also real estate experts. And there’s a banker on the board. And all of that coming together is I think, a unique process that serves the city. Well.

I’ll leave it at that.

So Karen, and Caitlin, do you have thoughts on this circle questions?

Just it sounds like it’s you don’t think it’s that important, or I wouldn’t say important, I’ve just wasted energy or Well,

hopefully, we’ll get more more out of it. from them, I guess.

around it, so I guess I one question I would throw back to you is, what do you think we could do to improve it? My question would be membership on tier two.

How often are those mentors rotated? But it’s been a while for a lot of them? Right? Yeah. That would be my one thought is Does it make sense to maybe look at trying to look to some new folks who may be a little bit more ready to engage? Just natural. If you’ve been doing something for a long time, you might not necessarily be as engaged with it as you were in the beginning?

Because I do hear that I do hear that concern. So if we hold on to that question for just a moment, Grant, what are your Do you have any thoughts?

Yeah, I guess two, maybe one is, I think that it should just be communicated directly and clearly to that group.

expectation is different than what they’re performing. And I got an opportunity to bridge that gap. You know, I think that’s, that’s critical.

And then second of all, I just have a curiosity about the fact that this board has both housing and human services, and I’m wondering why

TRG is sort of its own advisory board that occurs and whether


not they’re always combined in this way

that housing and human services or housing, housing and Human Services reflects the fact that Boulder County has combined housing and Human Services, I think, because so many of the things that affects human services are affected by housing. So like, I know, like I volunteer with an organization and one of the things we’ve talked about is the fact that like, the coffin street building is, you know, has housing and you think those things go hand in hand for so much of our community because housing is like, one of the biggest challenges for obtaining, you know, it’s that idea of like, if you don’t have stable housing, it’s really hard to show up at like, mental health appointments or get help with food if you don’t have it. So those things just seem like so intertwined in our community in particular,

It seems like the county at the county level at least they’ve combined those I don’t know if that’s the reason that board does those two things but I see them as like very like interlinked

in our community. It is the reason why services are combined on this board

what what I know that there is information that TRG gets that this board does not necessarily get when it comes to hf applications on the financial side, right or just forget everything.

lease just last probably a year for natural

I don’t

remember either di betrayed I think, some for some reason, either, but I know the application for sure. I thought I think we find I think we not the audit. I gotta do that. Yes. Mormon or

We provided a link because that’s a truckload of Yeah. I think for members that were just really excited about diving into all the details, I think we made that link available. Yeah. So but what I will say is TRG, like actively has conversations about those offices, and that’s conversations about the financial side in a way that this board does not. And maybe we could, I don’t know. I would I don’t believe that our conversation just because of the way that that board is structured would be quite as in depth or insightful is what happens there. There are questions that get asked and those meetings I would never think of just because I’m not in that space.

And, you know, I think I hear I hear the the two concerns about engagement and about

the rubber stamp piece for sure. I think I think talking like that’s the first set of grains right? communicating the board, that staff is not necessarily satisfied.

With with what TRG is putting out I think would be the first step and then see kind of where that puts us and

go from go from there. I think it’s an ongoing conversation rather than a. I just I still believe that kind of the and just maybe it might be helpful for those who are new to repair like what is all this just going to know kind of how to cheat typically happens. There’s a Catholic sends out, you know, the Catholic sends out applications we have quarterly meetings on the calendar, we come in, they come in they look at

the developer actually is physically present to present to TRG. And there are questions that can be asked there’s a back and forth there can take place.

That does not happen here. And that is that I think is a missing the point. And then there’s the there’s a conversation piece where we are late, you know that the funding what’s available in terms of dollars and what we can find with different, lesser

So that it’s, it’s a little, it’s a very kind of it’s an in depth process in a way that I think sport benefits for me just if I can comment. So I think yeah.

So I think that, you know, just to be thinking about so as Kathy laid out when we did TRG, which is probably been 18 years ago, it really was to bolster and bring in more technical expertise in the whole finance and housing development and whatever and so, so that’s really what we really need the TRG for. There was other precedent for that we looked at I think, Cindy holder had a technical review group or whatever. And so over time, we’ve been able to build that capacity with that staff which is good. And what we have heard from the from previous advisory boards is like, you know,

Hey, we, we feel disconnected. So, you know, there’s an TRG they do this and come back. And so, and then we kind of represent that. So so so those are really some questions. So how do we have more opportunities to integrate you could, you know, should we be having more joint meeting should be doing a meeting as a group? Should we be recruiting and directing more specific expertise in the advisory board to bring that instead of having a separate board, do we, you know, because some of the city advisory boards and commissions like the master board feels, they wherever, so require some specific expertise in order for you to play beyond that or so there’s a variety of options we just think after 18 years

in our council head question that so that we probably should be just taking a peek at this and it might be that we do the same thing.

As we’ve done,

or there could be some enhancements that we do, and

yet what

I think kind of to that point, what I’d love to hear is, so it sounds like staff capacity in a bunch of areas has increased. One of the things I heard in terms of the expertise that we’re looking for on the TRG is folks that are folks themselves or low income, or organizations that serve that as well as like special needs populations. And whether there’s a way like are those what are the things that you know, that staff doesn’t have the capacity for?

Or doesn’t, you know, have the lens to look at it? What are the gaps of that? And like really understanding where the Wait, what are the ways like the TRG could really supplement what the staff expertise is now, what was a different set of experts? Yeah, fine, because this staff has more experience on the financing side or on something else that may be

We need less of that and more of the other community input that staff doesn’t have but really understanding like, if if they’re the same that doesn’t necessarily help us unless it’s a like, what additional value can you bring to the process that that we really have the best recommendations and review of those and leverage those dollars? That’s a great question and a great my one hesitation and this is this is not to say Elon, anybody but he staff in this room at all and Kathy, Karen, and Alberto, co are all wonderful. I hesitate. Anytime that whether it’s us at the stable my day job or anytime that you know kind of community is handing more to staff that isn’t that isn’t just about capacity. It’s also about community voices being involved in the process, and different voices from the outside being able to speak on policy and being able to speak on different elements of it.

So I think if there’s a way to, to address your concerns Kathy and staffs concerns about the functionality of TRG, while still maintaining that element of it, where you do have experts who do not get involved in we do what otherwise communities that would otherwise not have a voice in this process. have a voice in it. Exactly to your question, which I think is a great one. How we get there? Is this something I’m absolutely interested in? Personally, I just,

I think, because I hear you, I think on the finance side, staff really, in my experience on TRT has a pretty good handle on most of most of all of that.

There are certainly pieces that I would be lost sorry


myself just

before it gets too late.

So in my experience, the disc board I think is functioning at the level it should be functioning

relation to these and that is, these are questions about purpose. Right? So for me, I see the purpose of this board is to understand how these projects are fit to the strategic, comprehensive plan and fulfilling those goals. So the numbers you presented today are very important to us because it shows how are we moving towards the goals of having sufficient housing using these different tools. TRG performs a role that is very,

it is technical. And I think it’s going to be hard for us to incorporate that on this board and get through the rest of our business. So tr G’s purpose to me, is one of evaluating these projects. Are they meeting other projects meeting the needs of their statement? By the ones that we’re saying we need? Can they be enhanced are they doing it to their

Maxine passes. Are they financially solvent? Yeah, all of those questions. And I do like the idea of there being a community lens, because I think what I hear you saying, Jake, is that I think it matters to have somebody that represents a disabled community. They’re saying, if you’re going to be doing housing that, that accommodates these individuals, I can represent that interest or when transitioning homeless or whatever it is, right.

And I think that is a valuable role. And then, of course needs to hold all

right staff is responsible for not only evaluation, but also implementing and making sure it actually happens. But in in the way that TRG is saying, is it maximized? can we enhance it? Are there things perspectives, we can bring the lenses

that should be helpful to staff if it’s not I think that’s the real

We’ll kind of teaser in there to say,

why is it not? And I think your experience with the southern border will help you understand. But again, to me, it’s all an issue, folks, you know, and I’m wondering if TRG purposes become a little vague. So maybe redefining or restating the purpose of getting remarried, right. It’s

reaffirm our vows.

Well, that kind of

renewed renewal of vows.

Sometimes I think that can focus groups. I was going to I think one of the things I was going to ask is, staff has a lot of expertise. And you mentioned that it felt like a lot of the questions, sort of the most probing questions were coming from staff versus from TRG. Members. I’m curious, just in your experience, do you feel like TRG members will push back on staff and to give you money

perspectives that you’re not seeing, or do they take what staff says, as like you’re an expert. You know, I think about in my day job, I work with people who are really technical. And the people who make me better at my job are the ones who are like, I’m not sure you’re doing this right here. How do we improve it? Is there not? Is that not happening? Is that where you feel like you could get be getting more of like, staff and the board pushing each other to really get to serve this purpose of, you know, that Brian laid out of what this board is doing? What I hear you saying is that maybe they’re not pushing that. And is it that? I mean, I feel like maybe that’s a question of like, do they feel empowered to do that? Or do they think that you know, you all have it in hand or is there some, some understanding there where they’re not pushing those questions?

Yeah, I’d like to

get your thoughts on. Well, for me personally, I’d like to attend one of the meetings when

session so that I can update myself with what they’re doing today.

Because it has been a long time just to become current on processes and how they operate. And what the roles are you mentioned in the community being an entity of that group.

Is it? Well, I think when I say community, what I mean by that is different voices from different segments of the community with me and not necessarily just general community, but somebody from first banks, underwriter, a banker is somebody I would not otherwise look at. You know, that’s when I when I say when I’m in community is, is those different outside forces involved in that process? Would it be in your opinion, Jake, would it be beneficial for us to attend? So I think that’s so first of all, I think, sure, but I think it’s a question for staff whether that’s okay or not.

Yeah, I mean, that’s why we have to liaise

really is to serve. Yeah. And kind of go between that. Absolutely. I mean, we’ve talked about that having and we have head join me. Yes. About more around goals a strategic direction, and then trying to have the presentations join.

Kind of Yes. Yeah. So much money. That was the that was the other day. Surely it was so much of our problem. Yeah, I’m thinking May or June. So, in theory, we wouldn’t be able to come back on June but I think it’d be very beneficial, especially for folks who don’t know or have questions to see kind of how they could functions and and additionally to see what areas could can be improved. I hear you on the questions, especially. And I think, I think they’re definitely improvements that can be made. It’s just a matter of, you know, does a full reshaping need to happen.

Do we know when the next round will get the meeting schedule? Or can we be elated.

Did you give a feedback?


No, I think

I think we just kind of have to take a look at having all things on the table. One of the things that other communities have done is they their

advisory board, that board so in effect, putting that expertise on on the advisory board, that it becomes a matter of can you do everything as a volunteer board?

The other thing option is that sometimes they split about so housing becomes one and yeah, but then you lose that integration without sitting more specific

integration and also what might that look like? So there’s all the talent is there enough housing for me? I guess in theory we could fill work that space on the way that funding is is structured the schedule

is there, you know, enough work to do for just the housing

might not meet me


So everything’s really kind of

nice, do I, you know, feedback has been really great.

I think it gives me an understanding more of what, yeah, it’s all of what’s all involved in this. And I don’t know, I’m still kind of unclear exactly what we do. Yeah. Yeah.

I think I, for me, at least, it was amazing, like the first and then maybe, maybe, you know, it’s just I haven’t been up enough, but just watching

He’s very, very smart people who are way smarter than I am, their brains on stuff and figure it out is something that I think everybody should get a chance to respond to. So I think that whatever the next meeting is, this board should be a part of it if this is going to be an ongoing question.


can we

Madeline, are you okay with doing your presentation, your walkthrough of your site visit next meeting? This one, so

sorry, let’s table that until the next meeting. I would just strongly suggest that there we explore crystal clear purpose for that, and how that relates to our purpose because, again, I think there’s some vagueness happening. And I’m guessing that all these foods can contribute much better if we don’t see


you do?

Okay, is there any other business? We were on? Did I miss the sensor? No.

I’m sorry you weren’t here. No, no, I missed it. No.




But now the lights getting longer I

thought it was going to be upside


Okay, so if there is no